Question on CM past state and evolution

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thenpaanan
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#1 Question on CM past state and evolution

Post by thenpaanan » 27 Mar 2019, 05:55

Dear Rasikas

I've a question that has been bothering me for a long time now. When I was growing up (this was in Mumbai in the 70s, may be different in Chennai or in a different time period) the common understanding was that the Carnatic music represented at a typical concert was not the full or even representative form of the art. It was a given that the kutcheri format imposed a lot of constraints in terms of presentation structure, time, proscenium (where you cannot be sitting close to your audience), etc. So the "real" Carnatic music was thought to be found in homes, informal settings, small groups, guru-shishya parampara, and so on. In fact, a friend of mine would emphatically claim that Carnatic music is not a performance art at all (as opposed to, say, Bharatanatyam). And the proof of this was the existence of an enormous number of deep, contemplative compositions that would never be sung in a concert but are nevertheless passed down teacher to student in centuries-long tradition.

But back in the 70s, concerts were far and few in number and one could argue that a concert, especially a major one, was something of a rare event in a professional musician's life, and thus there was plenty of time to nurture both the performative aspects as well as the art aspects of the tradition. Today there are so many concerts both in the real world and the virtual world that this might not be the case any more.

If professional musicians are performing at several times the frequency of their forebears, is the art music getting the same attention that it used to? Or are we in the inexorable transformation where the hard-to-perform-to-a-large-audience pieces will be confined to archival recordings (aka Youtube)? Today, we do see more rare pieces on the stage but they are presented as "items" meaning that the idea is show off the musician rather than the music.

I remember with not a little wistfulness, the long sessions with my guru and a small band of disciples where we would be immersed in some ragam or composition for hours (literally). It was a paradox that when no one was trying to impress anyone else with their own virtuosity, everyone was deeply touched by the music.

-Thenpaanan
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sureshvv
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#2 Re: Question on CM past state and evolution

Post by sureshvv » 27 Mar 2019, 09:00

I suspect that this is still the case. Only a very small percentage of practitioners become successful stage performers.
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shankarank
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#3 Re: Question on CM past state and evolution

Post by shankarank » 27 Mar 2019, 09:09

thenpaanan wrote:
27 Mar 2019, 05:55
Carnatic music is not a performance art at all (as opposed to, say, Bharatanatyam)
The Indian Dance ( even bharatiya would be a too [:cough;] controversial term as also the bharat) was also a chamber art wasn't it? Only that the chamber was little grand whether it was the secular or the non-secular variety! :D :lol:

What is bharatanAtyam?? Did you talk to Rukimini Devi Arundale this morning? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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shankarank
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#4 Re: Question on CM past state and evolution

Post by shankarank » 27 Mar 2019, 20:04

thenpaanan wrote:
27 Mar 2019, 05:55
But back in the 70s, concerts were far and few in number and one could argue that a concert, especially a major one, was something of a rare event in a professional musician's life, and thus there was plenty of time to nurture both the performative aspects as well as the art aspects of the tradition.
What was indeed the state of performances in 70(s). Only very few names that I can recall reading. TNS, TVS and Maharajapuram entering their primes. SSI , BMK and Somu still performing in their prime levels! KVN , Nedunuri already in. MDR and Ramnad unknown or not patronized very well.

No major effective successors for the female trio. Sungandha kALamegam, Lakshmi Rangarajan, Raji Goplakrishnan were called out as not having made an impact, in Carnatica review once in early 2000(s).

So what were the major developments in art in 70(s) that were in the works in chambers, that got added later in late 80s when concert opportunities went up?
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RSR
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#5 Re: Question on CM past state and evolution

Post by RSR » 27 Mar 2019, 21:57

Classical music ,in general, does not depend on lyrics at all. Western classical music may be a typical pure classical music. Next comes Hindusthani classical music.
Finally we have Carnatic classical music, where even seasoned experts mix up the musical compositions of the Trinity with the lyrics. . The music part of the composition , comes out more forcefully , when played in instruments like veeNa, flute and violin. best of all in Nagaswaram
The type of immersion in pure carnatic music , longingly sought after by the OP , was available in plenty , not in any concert halls or chamber music but in the music by devout and expert Nagaswaram players , playing for hours together ( the deity procession will start around 7pm and may last upto 3 am , sometimes). . Actually, it was an insult to such musicians asking them to play for marriage functions. ( so too , vocalists).
That was part of the normal life of hundreds of ancient temples in Tamilnadu for hundreds of years. and fortunately , the tradition is still being maintained in many temple towns in Cauvery delta. Certainly not in metroplitan areas .
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shankarank
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#6 Re: Question on CM past state and evolution

Post by shankarank » 28 Mar 2019, 10:48

The person who posts songs after songs from his era spake thus! You keep listening to the same songs again and again, may be because you haven't gotten their literary import?? :lol: :P :lol: .

https://youtu.be/nzJ89MvEE1w?t=2561 - artists must learn expression first then art. Many vidvans without expression it is just science.

Later he also points to the importance of Science in art, where it helps disseminate across generations.

https://youtu.be/nzJ89MvEE1w?t=2743 - more on expression, his Guru etc. but more importantly it is the TN rasikas that taught him expression - if at all - may be after his Guru's chambers! And then the accompanists, SrI Lalgudi always his accompanist, then Palghat Raghu , UmayaLpuram Sivaraman, Palghat Mani IyervAL taught him expression!

A philosophy of music book that I glanced over, pointed to unreliability of testimonies , since they may be subjective. But Nedunuri garu to his credit has gone long ways and is in his own territory. He has no reason or benefit to go recall these people there in the country of Andhra in 2013!

I hope people don't get distracted by the controversies of the accompanist there in that video! Just focus on the conversation rather.

At the end of the video in his message he expresses serious concern regarding people not singing SrI tyAgarajasvAmy kIrtanAlu in Madras, these days. May be his fear is too far fetched, but somewhat an advance caution!

Now this conversation I enjoyed very much :

https://youtu.be/nzJ89MvEE1w?t=3710 - part of music is dance, Dancers all should learn music ...

and here it comes: https://youtu.be/nzJ89MvEE1w?t=3743 : musicians should have knowledge of dance, dancers should have knowledge of music,

"And both should have knowledge of literature " :lol: :lol: :evil: - that is laughed off. Subject immediately changed to pulse.

I guess literature in an university means something else ;) . That ignominous discredited nobel prize on literature!

Sahitya is not literature in that sense!!

Again I say it. Language is music first!
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RSR
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#7 Re: Question on CM past state and evolution

Post by RSR » 28 Mar 2019, 11:13

@6-> If you are referring to my list of 100 songs (' we need more tamil songs'), the series had a definite purpose. To illustrate through tamizh songs ( 95% non-film) , the basics of at least 100 ragams. It is not the ragam alone, lyrical loveliness also was considered. and more so, the way in which the songs were rendered. That is why I had cautioned that there is no use in trying to sing them now. except for oneself! Mission accomplished..you would have observed that the posts stopped there. As for same songs being posted in different contexts, it is because , they are pure nectar. No need for anything after 'Ara amutham'. You are about to get a special thread on ragamalikas in tamizh by great singers of yore. ( golden decade)
------------------------------
As for Thyagaraja kritis going out of circulation soon, Papanasam Sivan is reported to have created a tamizh krithi EXACTLY patterned after a thyagaraja krithi. But why should anyone refuse to sing that rather than thyagaraja krithi? If we cared for music alone, we would go for a version in mother tongue to reach the common
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shankarank
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#8 Re: Question on CM past state and evolution

Post by shankarank » 28 Mar 2019, 18:36

Well , it is interesting that , at the end he is concerned about SrI tyAgaraja kritis being sung in Chennai, and wants a chair for it in Univ. of Hyd. , that , after spending couple of hours on SrI Annamacharya and SrI Bhadrachala Ramdas.

You create a chair in an university to only study the dead artifacts. They are not capable of anything else.

There is a lot of promotion being done of the former there in Andhra. To begin ( and end the larger) conversation about tyAgaraja, they had to showcase composers of their region first.

His own guru, the Bhishma Pitamaha of Andhrapradesh was brought out of the Chambers from Andhra and honored in Music Academy - otherwise we may not have heard much of him. That was the year MDR was also considered and not awarded. pANi gAru who was inspired by the chamber music prevalent at that time in Chennai. But he needed a Sishya out of the chambers , who now says he learnt a lot of art outside.


Somebody quotes the Chamber inspired one, to prove that Mridangam is not music.

Nedunuri gAru claims his SangIta kalanidhi came from tuning nAnATi braTuku! MS Amma's life ends with AnnamacArya after they lost everything - all the money earned from singing tyAgarAja.

It was chamber music ( recorded in studios) and then heard in chambers - mostly!

Lots of conundrums, lots of ironies!
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shankarank
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#9 Re: Question on CM past state and evolution

Post by shankarank » 29 Mar 2019, 19:00

pANi gAru in his own words , covered in a Sruti magazine article 2009/2010 thereabouts , perusing in it from the guest book stands of a music teacher! His first trip to Chennai as a musician(or student?):

" It was amazing to see the ease with which Chembai reached eDuppu of a 4-kaLai pallavi."

And he mentioned one more instance from the performance theater - don't recall!

"In the last day of my stay I was asked by SrI dvAram venkaTasvAmy naiDu gAru, to postpone my trip and stay for one more day to listen to a lady who plays vINA. "

He then listened to Smt. dhanammAL (Chamber music!) and rest is history.

But then does Chembai reach the eDuppu of a 4-kaLai pallavi with ease in a vaccum? He is musically complete onto himself?

A pramukha of Shanmugananda Sabha introduces Chembai , recalling all his good habits and such, and mentioning also his strong grip on laya, and his undeterred demeanor in the face of a no-holds-barred accompaniment from SrI Palghat Raghu. This is the back to back two day concert when SrI K.J Yesudas sings behind, and one of the days it was TVG on mridangam.
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shankarank
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#10 Re: Question on CM past state and evolution

Post by shankarank » 29 Mar 2019, 21:02

thenpaanan wrote:
27 Mar 2019, 05:55
I remember with not a little wistfulness, the long sessions with my guru and a small band of disciples where we would be immersed in some ragam or composition for hours (literally). It was a paradox that when no one was trying to impress anyone else with their own virtuosity, everyone was deeply touched by the music.
I suppose your music was never limited by time (Pun intended), whilst Smt. dhanammALs music was atleast limited by external time - she will stop once the Port Cannon booms - and she never allowed anyone to do tALam ;) !
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RSR
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#11 Re: Question on CM past state and evolution

Post by RSR » 30 Mar 2019, 12:32

A few more merits of the l Nagaswara players' music ,during the traditional temple deity procession,, as pure CM , came to my mind. It is free. The listeners do not have to pay for being treated to the highest and best thing in CM. The nagaswaram and ( ofcourse, tavil vidwans accompanying them) were paid by devasthAnams and mostly were attached permanently to the particular temple. It was one of the cleanest and best methods of taking the choicest art to common people all over the state. I am having in mind lived experience of such performances decades back, ( 1945-1960). in small towns. In every street corner, of the 'ther veethi', the nagaswaram players will halt and play for an hour atleast.
Smt.MS reminiscences s that as a little girl in Madurai, (1926?) she had the experience of such concerts being played just opposite to her house , as a mark of respect to her mother VeeNa player Shanmugavadivu. at Madurai Avani veethi.
------------------
Is it ever possible for a vocalist performing in a 'sabha;, ? I wonder. though Mani Iyer and others of those days , gave their best in free temple concerts.
Smt.D.K.PattammaAL, sang continuously for seven hours in her earlier days at a temple concert in Tirunelveli district, somewhere near Kallidaikkurichi. It was a free concert for the people.
The payment - based , commercial , 'sabha' culture has ruined all that.
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shankarank
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#12 Re: Question on CM past state and evolution

Post by shankarank » 31 Mar 2019, 02:00

RSR wrote:
30 Mar 2019, 12:32
It is free. The listeners do not have to pay for being treated to the highest and best thing in CM
This money as evil and spoiler is some conundrum of the udyOgam generation. Your next sentence contradicts what you just said. i.e:
RSR wrote:
30 Mar 2019, 12:32
The nagaswaram and ( ofcourse, tavil vidwans accompanying them) were paid by devasthAnams and mostly were attached permanently to the particular temple.
If you lived in that agrarian society, you had a choice of listening to it for hours. We should not mix form with substance. By the way I have experienced this somewhat, but not to the level of your times.
RSR wrote:
30 Mar 2019, 12:32
The payment - based , commercial , 'sabha' culture has ruined all that.
The sabhas did not ruin it , nor the payments, nor the tickets. It is lack of leadership , vision and abdication of understanding and interest - collectively! Sabhas have done what they do best. Provide a core nuclear environment where the best can express themselves. Other issues like nepotism and mediocrity are just normal mal-influences from rest of society. Nothing specific to them.

It is also people's false sense of empowerment, that democracy has promoted ( lets blame Indian democracy for a change shall we!) , that plays it's hands as well. People are impatient and expect things to be delivered to them, like all the utilitarian services government provides.

A first time rasika in a concert spelt out his impressions. He is my ex-boss. I called him after a recent concert ( Saketharaman). I already knew that it was his son that dragged him to the concert. The son is learning mridangam. The mridangam teacher, a friend of that day's artist (Patri) has always been telling his students to listen to concerts. At least I was happy, the Guru's words have some force still in this world.

Well, now this person tells me , he could not get to like the concert, because there was not one song that he already knew.
Well, one day - he doesn't consider - that his son's Mridangam , somebody has to listen to it and enjoy as well, beyond himself, without walking out in fact!

What? Is his son only going to play in the Chamber or what? ;)
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shankarank
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#13 Re: Question on CM past state and evolution

Post by shankarank » 31 Mar 2019, 06:20

Trends of music: rAgAmAlika svaras in pallavis:

https://youtu.be/Q7gSbFoxzew?t=778

Yes they can sing in their Chamber - if they are not willing to please!! But a heavy tODi, especially tODi, with a kaddanuvAriki deserves to be celebrated with additional rAgAs - as TNS did it! I think that may be the only rAgA that can take it without a jarring effect, because of its myriad hues! And TNS's music is drenching too much, some people cannot listen for more than an hour they say. For them, may be this will relieve some pressure!

Slokams:
https://youtu.be/Q7gSbFoxzew?t=805

Coat stand? That is the start of literarization with the western lens by "writers" ( periya ezhuttAlarkaL!) , Kalki here , with their rational dissection of their own heritage! That is colonial Indian literary scene! They have to justify their utility and presence don't they? They should restrict such critique to parliamentary democracy. Did Nehru/Rajagopalachari use their flair of English as a coat stand to push their political agendas? Would anybody say that?

This is the start from which we ended up with "Mridangam is NOT music". Mridangam became a prop on stage! Every vARNA, the meter, the dhIrga hrasva , even if it is not periodic, is music damn it!! If you yourself, keep promoting that "notes" are only music, better get the keyboard and get lost from my scene!! We need a DeMo drive for such writers!
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vgovindan
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#14 Re: Question on CM past state and evolution

Post by vgovindan » 31 Mar 2019, 10:29

RSR,
"As for Thyagaraja kritis going out of circulation soon, Papanasam Sivan is reported to have created a tamizh krithi EXACTLY patterned after a thyagaraja krithi. But why should anyone refuse to sing that rather than thyagaraja krithi? If we cared for music alone, we would go for a version in mother tongue to reach the common."

Kindly do not compare apples and oranges. In order to understand and appreciate tyAgaraja's composition, one has to become familiar with 'anurAga' - anurAga bhakti. For tyAgarAja, his audience was SrI rAma - he (tyAgarAja) did not compose with pencil and rubber. It was a cry from heart - the addressee only (and those who are in such receptive mood) know what that cry means. Music was simply a tool for communication.

God bless those who write poetry. All poetry are not alike.
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RSR
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#15 Re: Question on CM past state and evolution

Post by RSR » 31 Mar 2019, 13:05

vgovindan wrote:
31 Mar 2019, 10:29
RSR,
"As for Thyagaraja kritis going out of circulation soon, Papanasam Sivan is reported to have created a tamizh krithi EXACTLY patterned after a thyagaraja krithi. But why should anyone refuse to sing that rather than thyagaraja krithi? If we cared for music alone, we would go for a version in mother tongue to reach the common."

Kindly do not compare apples and oranges. In order to understand and appreciate tyAgaraja's composition, one has to become familiar with 'anurAga' - anurAga bhakti. For tyAgarAja, his audience was SrI rAma - he (tyAgarAja) did not compose with pencil and rubber. It was a cry from heart - the addressee only (and those who are in such receptive mood) know what that cry means. Music was simply a tool for communication.

God bless those who write poetry. All poetry are not alike.
As if, Papanasam Sivan composed music with a pen and pencil! He composed great songs on almost all the Gods and Goddesses of Hindu religious pantheon. He is what Purandhara Dasa was to Kannada sahithyams. I read only recently how a renowned musician asked Sivan to compose a song on a particular ragam and Sivan instantly and spontaneously sang one on the spot . The musician prostrated at Sivan/s feet.
If Thyagaraja lived by unchvrutthi on principle, so did Sivan, ' simple life incarnate. ' If one is a CM rasika, he would do better to concentrate on the musical composition , much more than the theme of Rama Bakthi and literary merits. ( I may be pardoned for questioning the literary merit).
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RSR
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#16 Re: Question on CM past state and evolution

Post by RSR » 31 Mar 2019, 13:31

@12, @13-> shankarank
So you hate tavil? why? Is there no classical music outside your concert halls? and chamber music?
In what way is this 'ticket and donation-based' admission, different from cinema theater business?
When I said, 'free', I meant that the listeners do not have to pay.
The nagaswaram artistes were maintained by devasthaanam . not in any great luxury but just a small house to live in and enough to feed the family and maintain themselves without begging any one.
They have to live.
No? especially such a strenuous and physically demanding playing during the deity procession. .
And did you miss the point that they were tied to a particular temple and were not globe-trotters. Have you not heard about the reaction of Sheik Chinna Moula Sahib, why he is tied up with Srirangam? Of Ustad Bismilla Khan attached to Kasi Viswanathar temple?
They lived for music and the deity and not for money. As the saying goes, 'the difference between people who eat to live and those who live to eat!"

The forum is a nice thing for 'invisibility'. You are already 'lost' to me , except through your posts. and links' So 'get lost' is not suitable for forums like this.

It is my policy that all external text and non-music tube-links should be avoided. When you give a link which runs for 40 minutes , rest assured that we just dont have time.
Even a bit lengthy post like this ( with due apologies ) is frowned upon. Giving links to music alone is unavoidable . Give a gist in your own words of whatever lecdem or profound talks that you are always mentioning. Bye.
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Nick H
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#17 Re: Question on CM past state and evolution

Post by Nick H » 31 Mar 2019, 14:13

Mostly, in Chennai, audiences do not have to pay to listen. All are welcome.

The effect of that on our value for the music would be another topic.
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shankarank
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#18 Re: Question on CM past state and evolution

Post by shankarank » 31 Mar 2019, 22:10

@RSR Get Lost is an admonition to specifically those who promoted this idea of lyrics as a stand alone from music , not specifically and personally you - I had Kalki-ish writers in mind , not even Kalki. It was a figurative "you".

As regards the livelihood of nAdasvaram vidvans , I understand what you are saying. I asked the question to the official sitting outside the Tanjore Big temple as to why there are no nAdasvara kutcheris ( after I had posted about the same!) in that temple. His answer: "they all demand money for blowing" ( Uduvadartku kAsu kEtkirargal! is the term he used) . "Those days they were all AnmIgam personified" - he goes. "Where is the money in the government?" "Even Archakars distribute vibhUti based on your offering on the plate!"

And he is likely an HR&CE employee with full benefits! Government money means, it is not money making. If government gives you money, it is your rightful share from above? They are all servants to the public aren't they? Is this a leftist lie again? Or is it a false self adulation?

And we are talking about an UNESCO heritage site!!! And we are falling over each other to welcome UNESCO tag for Chennai - the center of arts, nah performing arts, now curated arts, or chamber arts?.

Our traditionalists did not do analysis of the left correctly and further use that to understand our own past. You cannot understand yourself , in worldly matters especially, without understanding the others who are currently dominant!
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#19 Re: Question on CM past state and evolution

Post by RSR » 02 Apr 2019, 18:39

Am not much interested or knowledgeable in tALam and its intricacies. But, forum members like shankarank may find this great article by GAMAKAM very informative and inspiring.
some quotes.
"For a man who was born in 1920, Madras Kannan is supremely young. "Age has caught up with me. I have some difficulty in carrying out some the activities that were easier to do a few years back. But, thanks to the grace of my father and Guru, even today if I sit with Mridangam, my fingers can play what my mind says.""
------
"When I asked who were the major influences on his playing style, Kannan paused for while and said " I've played for a long time now. But till date I'm not able to reproduce the 'chaapu' played by my Guru.

Dakshinamurthi Pillai and Tavil maestro Needamangalam Meenakshisundaram Pillai have left nothing to be explored in the field of laya."
read more at the blog by Gamakam. .."Interview with Madras A Kannan"...
https://carnaticmusicreview.wordpress.c ... interview/
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RSR
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#20 Re: Question on CM past state and evolution

Post by RSR » 02 Apr 2019, 18:42

Why should we not have a separate section for Instrumental musicians and mrudangam and tavil and nagaswaram, saxaphone, clarinet and such?
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thenpaanan
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#21 Re: Question on CM past state and evolution

Post by thenpaanan » 04 Apr 2019, 07:06

shankarank wrote:
29 Mar 2019, 19:00
...

But then does Chembai reach the eDuppu of a 4-kaLai pallavi with ease in a vaccum? He is musically complete onto himself?

A pramukha of Shanmugananda Sabha introduces Chembai , recalling all his good habits and such, and mentioning also his strong grip on laya, and his undeterred demeanor in the face of a no-holds-barred accompaniment from SrI Palghat Raghu. This is the back to back two day concert when SrI K.J Yesudas sings behind, and one of the days it was TVG on mridangam.
It should not be forgotten that Chembai was a key musician who straddled the introduction of the "Ariyakudi" format. He first used to give concerts (both singing and violin) the old way which involved singing a couple of RTPs and a few kritis over the span of four hours. And then he rather abruptly changed to singing concerts full of kritis. I recall reading an interview where he was asked about this and he said something to the effect that the new way was the way the audiences wanted (he did not say it and my Malayalam is non-existent but it almost sounded like "good riddance"). I don't know whether his popularity was lower before the change but he was the unchallenged master of drawing audiences in the modern era until Madurai Mani. So it should be no surprise that Chembai could wrangle complex pallavis with ease. That was what he was trained for.

-T
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RSR
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#22 Re: Question on CM past state and evolution

Post by RSR » 05 Apr 2019, 12:24

There was a good and short write-up on Karukurichi Arunachalam. two days back in tamilthehindu .
It is however in tamizh.
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hnbhagavan
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#23 Re: Question on CM past state and evolution

Post by hnbhagavan » 05 Apr 2019, 13:34

The Musicians are also human beings and need to lead a good life in this modern World.Some how Sabhas are able to find sponsors to fund the events and pay the Musicians.
I do not know If RSR is against tickets and Funding how do Musicians get paid.Musicians are not super humans to keep performing freely.
RSR
Pl state exactly how the concerts have to be held without money in picture?
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#24 Re: Question on CM past state and evolution

Post by RSR » 05 Apr 2019, 14:44

hnbhagavan wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 13:34
The Musicians are also human beings and need to lead a good life in this modern World.Some how Sabhas are able to find sponsors to fund the events and pay the Musicians.
I do not know If RSR is against tickets and Funding how do Musicians get paid.Musicians are not super humans to keep performing freely.
RSR
Pl state exactly how the concerts have to be held without money in picture?
Respected Sir, My response was to the yearning for free-wheeling and emotive music by the OP. i was just pointing out that instead of the perfomers bending to the taste of 'rasikas'. the artistes shaping the taste of listeners without any constraint of time, was and still is possible in Nagaswaram playing in temple deity processions. I too have pointed out that the musicians have to live. but the difference is in style of living and who pays. It is the devastaanam that pays and not the bakthas.
Kindly refer to an earlier thread on ramanavami music festival at Bangalore. I have spoken very appreciuatively about certain unique features. I believe that you are one among the organizers. Kudos to you.
I had indeed suggested some measures to raise funds and giving free concerts to the rasikas. ( tickett less but token-based). At the risk of repetition , kindly allow me to quote,
Bangalore is known as the 'Silicon Valley' of India. There are reported to be around 2 lakhs software professionals in Bangalore alone. And add to that no less numerous and talented Engineers, Technologists and Scientists working there and other professionals in legal , medical , financial and management/administration sectors.
With such a HUGE number of potential rasikas and contributors, it is possible to plan a budget comparable to state govt budget.! Bear in mind the voluntary contributions made year after year to Thiruppathy Balaji temple!.
Bangalore is really a very cosmopolitan city . A very good percentage of professionals are from North India. and offering CM and HM programs as they do is very nice thing.
If a suitable classical music awareness drive is conducted not just on the eve of the festival, but through out the year, 45 days may not be enough for the festival!
We can raise funds as voluntary contributions from the professionals ( not companies) and make the concert free for the rasikas.
Ofcourse, it needs a long term organized effort to reach out to the professionals. but as I said, funds raised thus can be huge and we can pay the participating performers adequately.
and all the better , if it can be combined for a noble social cause like free medical service at patients' residence, , higher education, classical music training, and catering to less privileged sections. Best Regards. ,
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shankarank
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#25 Re: Question on CM past state and evolution

Post by shankarank » 06 Apr 2019, 08:21

thenpaanan wrote:
04 Apr 2019, 07:06
Chembai was a key musician who straddled the introduction of the "Ariyakudi" format
thenpaanan wrote:
04 Apr 2019, 07:06
I don't know whether his popularity was lower before the change
When we talk of his popularity, before and after, we may be glossing over the changes in the nature of audience. Pallavi era ( where it was a pure pallavi concert - I mean for the most part) fits in more with a close knit community ( the modern pejorative for that is elite!) that cherished and nurtured a certain values. Many elements of pallavi singing did carry over to kriti rendition. I think it can be viewed as distinct.

Stage by stage Alapana could very well move across. Again the sAhitya bhava of the kriti not being disturbed and overwhelmed by music was put across. Again this is too much burden on a sacred system of transmission that we are imposing. We should leave after effects to time and its course, I think.

I hate to get into Audience tastes, treating them as raw consumers. Like the rating industry does for TRP. That bottom line of a musician depends on that is no excuse. At least we should stop over emphasizing that. Pretend that that is not the case and communicate the grandeur of the music slowly.

I also don't like this artistic freedom thing, with full empowerment for the artist - as if they are under seige from people! An artist gets more leverage as soon as they get established ( As Sanjay points out in his video I posed above!). I think that is healthy for the system.

We seem to think that Pallavi is composed and then improvised by the musician , while a kriti is a pre-composed item, and hence automatically less creative. This may be of the folly of pedagogy that was anxious and the pAThantaram dogma! And the latter most male musicians have given a short shrift to! Shall we now say good riddance?

And there are now new trends. Bhajans have made into concerts ( and that is bigger than just the tukkadas of golden era, in terms of impact , buzz)

But once many Bhajans included improvised singing:

https://youtu.be/XyKNK4kZ1wg?t=554

See how unhurried he is in jaya jAnaki ramaNa,

pApa sanga vidhara - you could say 3 things.

1. He split the padams to convey artha bhAvA clearly - the conventional wisdom that has been propagated
2. He split the padams, but the padams as exists, position themselves neatly , in fact it can be sung with 2 mAtra offset to start and leaving 2 mAtra offset at the end, hanging the line in the middle. A bit of silence speaks!

3. This line can as well be elaborated on the rAgA like the previous line , he does it somewhat , more so because it has those attributes that allowed (2).

4. One should stand on such lines without even a formal neraval like a batsman on a well turning pitch, without getting out.

I appealed to Smt. Aruna Sairam to do something likethat, instead of this : https://youtu.be/1Zd-IUfjeiU?t=119 in a place of musical Grandeur like the Mecca. She can sing and show case a following by letting violin follow once every Avarta - just for that one line. svaraksharam possibility is there also.

She drags the percussionists along to run with her and then signals to them : https://youtu.be/1Zd-IUfjeiU?t=198 to slow down!

But then she sings lots of big items where nuances like this naturally abound. If by chance the pATantharam has it it comes out, else no. That is where we have ended up with pATantharam dogma.
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