Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Miscellaneous topics on Carnatic music
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ganesh_mourthy
Posts: 1371
Joined: 02 Sep 2007, 23:08

Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by ganesh_mourthy »

As rasikas , we are a mosaic of folks with different interests , age, profession and what unites us is music. Our frame of reference with music could be different and we relate to different aspects differently , but that is fine.

I just wish to emphasize here that it would be nicer to discuss in simple English and direct to the point instead of excessive insinuations , metaphors, various allusive quotes and anecdotes before it becomes a ranting marathon.

When we use metaphors and insinuations , we simple overestimate others ( or rather ignore others ) presuming that they can easily relate to our hints while it is just a greek and latin to others , at least to me. Anybody can write like a verbose if you wish to just go on rambling cautiously but what is the point. I think a few of Rasikas do it and I have no shame in saying that that it all looks " greek and latin " to me.

One person who readily comes to my mind is Shankarank .. ( I don't wish to hint and hence pardon me for being so direct ) .

Dear Shankarank , I do not know other"s opinion about you , but I admire anyone who can write volumes even if it is nothing. I cannot keep up my focus beyond 5 lines and you have mastered mindfulness in writing whatever the content is.

I definitely read your posts , but I get lost easily . Honestly I don't understand much thanks to your style of writing , and I leave feeling out of depth. you wish to write and you like your ideas being heard and shared and I guess you spend a great deal of time writing and you have contributed a lot. However , most of the things escape my mind as you do not write anything clearly and I understand that sometimes you are adding value but they get lost in your verbose style.

When Rajeshnat wrote this .............

"Shankarank , I read it twice which is something i donot usually do for your post at all. Based on the trend of your past posts I am assuming you meant that SPB did not split it right and hardly payed attention to layam . I am assuming SPB excessively denormalized endarO mahanubhavulu losing all the layam that is inbuilt "

..........It was a relief to me and I felt that I am not alone and you remain elusive to many and they can only assume what you say . May be that is your style but could you not make is short and sweet ? What is the use of writing a long post ( anyone for that matter ) knowing that everyone is going to bypass it deliberately.

If you looked at the SPB thread , look at the quick deviation the thread took to a different course of mudslinging. And then to a different analysis in an obitiuary thread.

The point is ..many of us may not be good writers as we think . When given a space we suck . Mods have other work too and they cannot be chaperoning all the time.

Shankarank again .... please could you make it simple and write without too many quotes , allusions and insinuations. Avoid verbose and get to the point. You have a lot to share as I understand from your posts ... it is just that I do not understand most of them.

This is to Shankarank and his ilks of this Rasikas. Some of us here are very basic with our music knowledge hence make it simple. I am going to ask you folks to explain if I dont understand something and I think each of Shankarank's posts might require 20 set of explanations .

I do not mean to make any less of anyone . It is better if could make the writing comprehensible even it is lengthy.

Mods .... sorry for overstepping.

GM

shankarank
Posts: 4042
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by shankarank »

Oh! I do write simple posts! You can read them instead. I try to explain as much as I can. If anything is not understood, it is for posterity! Lets leave it at that!

But I hear you. Will try my best!

ganesh_mourthy
Posts: 1371
Joined: 02 Sep 2007, 23:08

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by ganesh_mourthy »

Thank you Shankarank and I was reluctant to post it as my intention was only to make your anecdotes and inputs easily accessible to the brain. I am glad you took it positively and in a mature manner.

And your affable and agreeing response .... Thank you . Keep writing , but short , sweet and easy , and I shall follow them.


ganesh_mourthy
Posts: 1371
Joined: 02 Sep 2007, 23:08

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by ganesh_mourthy »

Yes I noticed your defiant remark . That is Ok and the retort , if at all , shall happen elsewhere but not there. We have expressed our thoughts about SPB there already .

Pratyaksham Bala
Posts: 4164
Joined: 21 May 2010, 16:57

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by Pratyaksham Bala »

How about the periodical abuse of all other music teachers as 'cheaters' for the past ten years ? The other choice words are 'traitors' and 'rogues'.

This has driven out all the musicians / music teachers from the forum.

How many years long is the rope ?

shankarank
Posts: 4042
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by shankarank »

I think the Gurus of music need a separate forum that is read only to all of us. If they do want to engage with rasikas then rasikas will have their own view of music , in conformance with the tradition ( "as in former's view of it ") or sideways from it.

I agree, there cannot be a dogma about one method of "instruction".

As regards SPB(s) thread : Let the Mods move the original post and my replies to it to some where else as they deem fit.

ganesh_mourthy
Posts: 1371
Joined: 02 Sep 2007, 23:08

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by ganesh_mourthy »

Something unique I have observed in this forum . When SOME members have unanimous feeling about some posts they collectively ingnore those posts however bitter they are . That is some gracious art developed over the years . The gracious art of selective avoidance. It is just the noob who suffers . Rasikas have become resilient and cannot be shaken off easily .

SrinathK
Posts: 2477
Joined: 13 Jan 2013, 16:10

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by SrinathK »

I had a discussion on this sometime back with the admins. They spoke about a few issues they had faced.

1) For a long time they gave some forumities (possibly because of their other contributions here and elsewhere) too much free reign who knew where the border line was and cleverly stopped just short of it or added enough dark humor to keep a ban at bay. Case in point, harimau.

2) Vk told me in a chat long back that the hardest thing as an admin was dealing with some old senior posters who kill off all constructive discussion because they just don't get internet forum culture or etiquette. You couldn't ban them and yet they failed to realize how they were hurting all prospects of any good discussion by turning off everyone else. In the end we just got used to these quirks of character, accepted that their minds weren't what they used to be and ignore it. Other posters did not like it and stopped posting.

Now I should clarify that on rasikas.org, most of our posters are in fact seniors and they have actually made the best contributors to the forum by far. This is just about the few who didn't get it.

But of late these incomprehensible rant posts with no beginning middle and end, and no point or relevance -- they've begun to irk. Nothing kills all discussion like an off road excursion to nowhere. The mods have had too many complaints in recent days and while it may not be malicious, it is off putting like nothing else. Many members have told me privately that they don't want to post as long as the ranters keep ranting pointlessly and that this is just "killing the forum". I think the admin have not quite realized the damage.

I once had a college professor who, after seeing my draft presentation, firmly told me "No more than ONE item per slide and no sentences with commas" - the one thing he hated most was not conveying information in easy to digest chunks. And he made sure we did it.

Unless it's a detailed, structured article or a review or anecdote, I don't see what a wall of text would achieve. Some posters known for being terribly defragmented could do well to try and convey their message in 3 sentences or even one sentence a post. Each post must ultimately convey only one point.. If I have to ask "What's the point of this post?" and I can't answer that in a single sentence, it's not well composed. Multiple points may be discussed over a whole thread than one post.

Finally, I belive that the admins really need to tighten up on the importance of sticking to topic and enforce it if need be. If some other interesting stuff comes up, that may be noted down and relegated to a different topic. But of late the forum is just too lax on sticking to topic and the resulting excursions just derail every thread. If some other forums and groups seem too strict about this, this is exactly why.

So how would I sum this up? "Don't rant, make only one point in a post, use simple sentences, and stay on topic" -- See you need not have read the rest of my post. :lol:
Last edited by SrinathK on 07 Oct 2020, 21:08, edited 2 times in total.

ganesh_mourthy
Posts: 1371
Joined: 02 Sep 2007, 23:08

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by ganesh_mourthy »

I get your point , but I doubt if the mod can police all the threads and the mod even staked out a couple of persons for it but it is not their job, you see . It requires endless hours of reading the flurry of rants and ramblings. Ironically it is the the most seniors who have a lot to share and they are not used to the online etiquette. I have talked to a couple of people who is well known for their acerbic posts , and they were exceptionally affable offline . I would present myself nicer in person than how I write and remember that starting this topic thread in a forum is easier than addressing that to a group of live people ...and no I have no MPD. I am not cutting slack , but I think we could attribute 50 percent to this online alternative world. Folks get desensitized as they write coz you know nobody that well really ... you have been debating with people you do not know at all. It is just like the virus that my old 95 plus aunt who is not ready to accept at all . She just don't understand it and people have hard time understanding internet still.

Nick H
Posts: 9379
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by Nick H »

I know it varies from person to person: my mum died in 2005, approaching 90 years of age. She had never touched a computer or even a mobile phone in her life. Yes, there are many, many such people. But age is not a blanket reason. People (and especially youngsters) should bear in mind that it is not their generation that invented computing or the internet; it is their parents, and even their grandparents. The people who invented windows and the mouse (I think both: excuse if wrong) have died in old age.

And who cannot learn? Is it ever too late? Do we not also know people who may have retired before computing hit their office environment, but now, 80-plus, are using computers in their homes, and communicating with whatsapp and their smartphones. It was an octagenarian who passed me her phone to talk to her friend --- on my first ever video call!

ganesh_mourthy
Posts: 1371
Joined: 02 Sep 2007, 23:08

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by ganesh_mourthy »

Of course one could learn the internet , but the mindset does not change that fastly . Computer and internet are not static versions. The move email, to chat rooms to voice calls to video calls , forums, crazy news driven forums, hundreds of forwards in an hour, quick search for facts and fictions , are all too fast. When you receive an information through whatsapp for 95 percentage of the people it is the highest form of truth . Most people do not even check its credibility and their thoughts and arguments are driven by it. Even worse , when the once so called golden standard news media are dishing out rubbishes. There is no such thing as retraction these days.

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by RSR »

Esteemed Forum seniors ! Is not this thread going off-track? Is it meant for advances in internet technologies of the last five years and ability of people of older generation being all at sea in using them? For one, I do not even own or use any smart phone, and things like wht's up nor do I know how to use them.
----------------------
As the thread specifically targets Sri Shankaran K , though I differ fro his basic tenets be it in the soul of music ( melody vs layam), , importance of lyrics and their theme (my smtand is that classical music -Indian ) does not need any lyrics and it was not for lyrics that carnaticmusicins of the golden decade or even earlier, approached the creations of Dasar composer/ musicians and the Trinity but for their musical content. How many of those musicians knew Telugu? ( even today). but Sankarank has very strong opinion that language itself has a layam pattern and artistes should be very careful in correctly singing the kruthis. ( people who do not know either Telugu or Kannada may not be even aware wen such liberties are taken but he has a very valid point which can be easily appreciated by tamil-only knowing tamil-rasikas when the lyrics are murdered for the sake of music.

I suppose, I am able to love so many Hindi film music classics of earlier decades only because, I have not seen those films ( most of the visuals are revolting or common-place) and and I know neither Hindi or Urdu. So only the tune matters to me. But Lataji has been criticized by anguage fans that she is not doing full justice to the 'great' lyricists.
Even Smt.MS has been criticized on this score. in her Bengali songs. No solution to the best of my knowledge unless we give preference to Instrumental music.
We cannot brush aside shankarank's view point. that easily.
-------------------------------
Secondly, he is an admirer and erhaps a practitioner of Mrudhangam . I all his posts, e is insisting on the taaLAM of the famous kruthis of the trinity. ( I have never read any notatted edition of trinity's kruthis.. but have always wondered if Thyagaraja Swami alwaysspecified the TaaLm). That is for scholars to debate.
------------------
I will not talk about his social-poitical views here as I differ radically from his basics.
Specifically , was not the post by some name like 'tathva-vichar' or smething, guilty of all the faults that the mods are blaming shankarank?
-------------------------------------------------
So, let the mods be a bit less vitriolic in their criticism. For that matter , why bring in BMK vs an obituary on SPB?
If my memory serves me right, was not SPB sued by Ilayaraja was copyright issues? Excuse me if I am wrong.
-------------------------
ShankaranK was only trying to answer the earlier lengthy and dense and vacuous post on SPB.
by someone, who says that his veena-teacher lerned to appreciate CM only after listening to SPB in Sankarabaranam. ! and our venerable Rajesh who brings in Western music in his psts. I do not think, most of the forum members have any familiarity with western classical music. Students oin USA schools it seems are taught Western classical music. We too can daopt it if we tech instrumental classical music in every school in Taminadu as lyrics are not involved and language problem and theme problem will not arise.
It is not breaking any convention if we adopt western instruments fr CM and HM based songs but western music , be It classical or pop in south indian fim music and all this fusion-stuff, is definitely revolting. It is elitist! and goes against Sampardhaya.
--------------
There are only a few 'notorious', posters, ( me included) who post lengthy stuff. but unless they are offensive , reaers can just skip them. ( I suppose, they already do!) At some stge mod can just issue an one line brake'. No need to assign any reason.
Or suggest that lounge may be a better place for the ramblings.
------------------------

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by RSR »

Esteemed Forum seniors ! Is not this thread going off-track? Is it meant for advances in internet technologies of the last five years and ability of people of older generation being all at sea in using them? For one, I do not even own or use any smart phone, and things like wht's up nor do I know how to use them.
----------------------
As the thread specifically targets Sri Shankaran K , though I differ fro his basic tenets be it in the soul of music ( melody vs layam), , importance of lyrics and their theme (my smtand is that classical music -Indian ) does not need any lyrics and it was not for lyrics that carnaticmusicins of the golden decade or even earlier, approached the creations of Dasar composer/ musicians and the Trinity but for their musical content. How many of those musicians knew Telugu? ( even today). but Sankarank has very strong opinion that language itself has a layam pattern and artistes should be very careful in correctly singing the kruthis. ( people who do not know either Telugu or Kannada may not be even aware wen such liberties are taken but he has a very valid point which can be easily appreciated by tamil-only knowing tamil-rasikas when the lyrics are murdered for the sake of music.

I suppose, I am able to love so many Hindi film music classics of earlier decades only because, I have not seen those films ( most of the visuals are revolting or common-place) and and I know neither Hindi or Urdu. So only the tune matters to me. But Lataji has been criticized by anguage fans that she is not doing full justice to the 'great' lyricists.
Even Smt.MS has been criticized on this score. in her Bengali songs. No solution to the best of my knowledge unless we give preference to Instrumental music.
We cannot brush aside shankarank's view point. that easily.
-------------------------------
Secondly, he is an admirer and erhaps a practitioner of Mrudhangam . I all his posts, e is insisting on the taaLAM of the famous kruthis of the trinity. ( I have never read any notatted edition of trinity's kruthis.. but have always wondered if Thyagaraja Swami alwaysspecified the TaaLm). That is for scholars to debate.
------------------
I will not talk about his social-poitical views here as I differ radically from his basics.
Specifically , was not the post by some name like 'tathva-vichar' or smething, guilty of all the faults that the mods are blaming shankarank?
-------------------------------------------------
So, let the mods be a bit less vitriolic in their criticism. For that matter , why bring in BMK vs an obituary on SPB?
If my memory serves me right, was not SPB sued by Ilayaraja was copyright issues? Excuse me if I am wrong.
-------------------------
ShankaranK was only trying to answer the earlier lengthy and dense and vacuous post on SPB.
by someone, who says that his veena-teacher lerned to appreciate CM only after listening to SPB in Sankarabaranam. ! and our venerable Rajesh who brings in Western music in his psts. I do not think, most of the forum members have any familiarity with western classical music. Students oin USA schools it seems are taught Western classical music. We too can daopt it if we tech instrumental classical music in every school in Taminadu as lyrics are not involved and language problem and theme problem will not arise.
It is not breaking any convention if we adopt western instruments fr CM and HM based songs but western music , be It classical or pop in south indian fim music and all this fusion-stuff, is definitely revolting. It is elitist! and goes against Sampardhaya.
--------------
There are only a few 'notorious', posters, ( me included) who post lengthy stuff. but unless they are offensive , reaers can just skip them. ( I suppose, they already do!) At some stge mod can just issue an one line brake'. No need to assign any reason.
Or suggest that lounge may be a better place for the ramblings.
------------------------

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by RSR »

deleted- duplicated post
Last edited by RSR on 08 Oct 2020, 10:02, edited 3 times in total.

ganesh_mourthy
Posts: 1371
Joined: 02 Sep 2007, 23:08

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by ganesh_mourthy »

@RSR

RSR wrote :

"Esteemed Forum seniors ! Is not this thread going off-track? Is it meant for advances in internet technologies of the last five years and ability of people of older generation being all at sea in using them? For one, I do not even own or use any smart phone, and things like wht's up nor do I know how to use them"

---

That last point was very relevant where I defended the older generation who is all substance but less accustomed to the speed of change of the internet , which sometimes even the internet savvy youngsters are unable to keep up with. @RSR you could see that you post your posts multiple times which is not your fault .

On a completely different note ....Yes , someone started to digress lengthily in the obituary , but that does not mean "you jumped off the bridge and hence we all jump". In a condolence meet if realize that someone is boisterous , we signal the person to tone down , don't we ?

As far as Shankarank , I know that people have different opinion about his posts , but I think he writes a lot of first hand information which is valuable . When I asked him to make his posts concise and easy for readers like me , he took it totally in the right spirit. It is a style of writing which we ( me and my ilk ) generation are not used to . It is just that we have to convey what we want. It was a respectful direct request and he consented too.

rajeshnat
Posts: 9906
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:04

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by rajeshnat »

RSR,
If by any reason you pressed submit more than once as soon as it is done you can press a delete of the last post that goes with a x symbol.

In the case where some one else also posts a post after you and if you lost the window time to press delete x button. You can go and edit the duplicate post by just deleting the content by just saying one word duplicate. You can do that for #14 and #15 right away.

Sachi_R
Posts: 2174
Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 20:20

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by Sachi_R »

OK guys. I stumbled on this thread.

Mods, here is a workaround solution
1. Use AI to plug all verbose, circuitous, rambling, diversionary, digressive, "my opinion is the sacred truth" types, excessive, provocative, insinuating, distasteful, hair-tearing-instigating, phrases and sentences in any post.
2. Remove them to a verbose etc. Archive. You can name it Weed.
3. Replace those sentences and phrases in the original post with a hyperlink to the Weed location.
This workaround helps readers to work around these pieces and yet dive into them when they are in the mood and feel like saying "Rhea!"


😂

Sachi_R
Posts: 2174
Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 20:20

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by Sachi_R »

Continuing, suppose I write a line or two like this:
Shame on all those slavering sycophants (or should I say psycho-pants) who praise Vid. Vaidyan Venkateshwaran for his kitschy crooning of Dikshitar's magnum opus without ever having even smelled SSP's dusty and musty fragrance in Karnatak Book Depot AND YET condescending to explain how the gandhara should be oscillated when every self-respecting Mylaporean is taught in Kindergarten to cringe when he hears an oscillating gandhara in Mayamalavagaula that is guaranteed to rouse homicidal instincts in any honest listener. But then what do the corridors of this hoary(guess what it rhymes with) art form's high temples, resonate with? This nonsense of popular idiom. Mixed with vulgar gossip and much chicanery.
Replace it with Weed
Last edited by Sachi_R on 08 Oct 2020, 14:31, edited 1 time in total.

sureshvv
Posts: 5523
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by sureshvv »

Rasikas has a "kill posts" feature that will hide posts of people you don't want to read from. Has served me well.

rupavathi
Posts: 173
Joined: 13 Dec 2011, 08:44

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by rupavathi »

Oh thanks for that tip @sureshvv ! Should deploy it for a verbal diarrhoea "reviewer" :D

ganesh_mourthy
Posts: 1371
Joined: 02 Sep 2007, 23:08

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by ganesh_mourthy »

@ sachi R

Did you make it up . Do folks here write like that ever ? Hatred and animosity ridden posts ?

Shame on all those slavering sycophants (or should I say psycho-pants) who praise Vid. Vaidyan Venkateshwaran for his kitschy crooning of Dikshitar's magnum opus without ever having even smelled SSP's dusty fragrance in Karanatak Book Depot AND YET condescending to explain how the gandhara should be oscillated when every self-respecting Mylaporean is taught in Kindergarten to cringe when he hears an oscillating gandhara in Mayamalavagaula that is guaranteed to rouse homicidal instincts in any honest listener. But then what do the corridors of this hoary(guess what it rhymes with) art form's high temples, resonate with? This nonsense of popular idiom. Mixed with vulgar gossip and much chicanery. I did not understand your Rhea too .. . It was like " now it is my turn " Did anyone ?

shankarank
Posts: 4042
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by shankarank »

@Sachi_R Even in your disparagement you ended up using gamaka and raga. Your post reminds me of Lec. Dem from Vid. Vedavalli some 15 years back - yeah we had all that actually in a place far away from Mylapore - much to the opposition of many in the Org.'s commitee.

She warned "layam" could turn into an addiction (or weed!) and we should leave that to the mridangists! I wonder how they can do that alone? May be in tani - taniyAgA!

Sachi_R
Posts: 2174
Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 20:20

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by Sachi_R »

I made it up, yes. Just wanted to see how far I could go in belligerence. (Corrected a couple of typos now).

SrinathK
Posts: 2477
Joined: 13 Jan 2013, 16:10

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by SrinathK »

@Sachi_R Your attempt was remarkably accurate. But it was too short and did not jump at least 4 topics. And we were actually able to understand the point of the post.

I am convinced you are the smartest man on this forum. See, you alone seem to have actually understood and mastered this particular bani of posting (!!). It's a feat that all of us had long declared to be impossible.

Sachi_R
Posts: 2174
Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 20:20

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by Sachi_R »

You techies know how to pull legs via the Internet man!

ganesh_mourthy
Posts: 1371
Joined: 02 Sep 2007, 23:08

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by ganesh_mourthy »

There need to be a dislike button for bad and nasty posts. And whoever has gained 50 bad points will have a week's time of suspension from posting . I know this may go against the grain of liberalistic views and free speech. ;)

In one of my previous org we had such a software developed where we had to update regularly of our progresses so all of us were on the same page . If a particular entry is intriguing and flagged by 10 others with a query, you cannot do further inputs unless you respond to it and until then my posts and entry would be frozen . I cannot deliberately ignore the queries and go on with my updates.

I know it would be silly here and some of our Rasikas cannot write at all as there would be ubiquitous thumbs down elading to extreme work for admins.

Ranganayaki
Posts: 1760
Joined: 02 Jan 2011, 06:23

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by Ranganayaki »

SrinathK wrote: 07 Oct 2020, 15:10

1) For a long time they gave some forumities (possibly because of their other contributions here and elsewhere) too much free reign who knew where the border line was and cleverly stopped just short of it or added enough dark humor to keep a ban at bay. Case in point, harimau.
Harimau didn’t ever stop short, he crossed so many lines. He was crass, not clever.

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by RSR »

At p.27
@ganesh.mourthy
Dear Sir, The idea is not good.
I try to read all the posts to gain knowledge and I do not find that many posts that are so very objectionable. ...boring -perhaps- but not offensive. No body forces anyone to read the posts. Best ignored. Even the like button is not necessary.. Members are from exceptional background and such buttons are not really needed.
If I like a post, I can say why I like it in my reply. and appreciation.
Similarly, if someone dislikes a post, he can highlight te objectionable part and plainly say that it is bad.
-----
My humble suggestion is that all 'smileys and icons are removed.
============================================
Finally, we have the report button.
=============================================
@Sachi_R
Dear Sir, we cannot rely on AI too much. The Robot with a slight but fatal error in programming, may turn against its operator .
I think yanthiran' theme was based on that scenario.
With thousands of Nuclear warheads , the super powers are in perpetual danger of self-destruction. Basmasura?

ganesh_mourthy
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Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by ganesh_mourthy »

Harimau and koolkarni got into a dispute and they both left I guess. Sometimes this forum serves as a venting out medium and an ear to the lonely soul . I remember Harimau and I did not cross paths ever , not a single post I guess.

When you task yourselves to write a lengthy post , make sure who your takers are for that each post. If there are not any don't waste your time, rather go do Yoga.

ganesh_mourthy
Posts: 1371
Joined: 02 Sep 2007, 23:08

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by ganesh_mourthy »

@ RSR

Sir, no I did not mean it . Some are avid readers, while others react . We cannot stop people from reacting and the posts goes out of context soon and the result is you are losing other valuable inputs . WE DO NOT KNOW HOW MUCH WE MISS AS PEOPLE MOVED OUT.

AI was just in jest . It cannot work here and you need an army of workforce for this . It is just that we have to be responsible and make this ecosystem more constructive and friendly . And when someone exceeds unknowingly and if one or two point it out , he or she should have the maturity to take it in the right spirit and appreciate that . THAT IS MORE THAN ENOUGH

SrinathK
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Joined: 13 Jan 2013, 16:10

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by SrinathK »

Ranganayaki wrote: 09 Oct 2020, 10:52
SrinathK wrote: 07 Oct 2020, 15:10

1) For a long time they gave some forumities (possibly because of their other contributions here and elsewhere) too much free reign who knew where the border line was and cleverly stopped just short of it or added enough dark humor to keep a ban at bay. Case in point, harimau.
Harimau didn’t ever stop short, he crossed so many lines. He was crass, not clever.
I don't know why admin were so tolerant to him - he must be a well known name among organizers. I feel giving him too much of a free line caused more damage in the long run. Sometimes being nice is not so nice. But some others told me they found him and his mischief hilarious too, and sometimes he had a point. One member just messaged me saying he feels the forum became boring without his evil tongue lashing. :lol:

Oh he was clever, very very clever. He gave away almost every detail of who he was short of revealing his real name and still got away with the costume for a long while. I believe it's the worst kept secret on this forum. :lol:

Thing is, Harimau(s) turned just too bitter after his 2 least favourite singers got the SK (had he failed his life purpose maybe?). He also kind of started acting like he lacked attention so he started making inflammatory remarks and his usual dark humor turned acerbic. He caused every thread he got in to shut down. He even lost his cool to some trolls, ironically. Even his usual fans started feeling he was slipping.

I mean I was expecting him to drop nuclear bombs and slaughter anything that moves on the day AS got the Sangeetha Kalanidhi, but he just wrote a few paragraphs almost having resigned himself to the reality. And he wasn't the same again.

I consider that the period of decline of the tiger, when it got old and couldn't hunt, it turned to man eating. That's when admin finally woke up. But apparently his decision not to return was his own.

Thing is, he retired without sharing the juicier tales of his unique perspective behind the scenes with musicians over the years (or maybe admin didn't allow it). That would have been refreshingly honest, even if it meant demolishing many a pedestal. :twisted:

I do not know if sureshvv is secretly rejoicing having outlasted his rival or grieving over the lack of a worthy sparring partner now. :lol:
Last edited by SrinathK on 09 Oct 2020, 15:46, edited 8 times in total.

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by RSR »

p.31->
@ganesh.mourthy
Sometimes, I would like to use the like button and add my appreciation too but I desist as the earlier post will get pushed down .Is there any method for showing last 4 posts' instead of 'last post'?
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Is there any method to indicate the number of viewers/ readers for individual posts? How can we know beforehand who will read? Perhaps, we can provide a 'seen' button. The poster will then know if he is crying in the wilderness. and attend to more useful things than posting in a forum and wasting his time.
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To the best of my knowledge, coolji was so very informative as also Harimau. Harimau may have been acerbic at times and too political but it is all there inevitable in a passionate discussion.
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There is always the easiest solution. --The Lounge!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I think, we should not leave any space between @ and the name.
@RSR .
I tried @ RSR. It does not work.

ganesh_mourthy
Posts: 1371
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Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by ganesh_mourthy »

@RSR
It is ok to like and that is not going to push other posts up or down. It is only that the one posted gets to know it is being liked.

Other technical things to work around may not be a viable option as this is a free forum and what Srkris does is a service with a lot of effort. All those ramblers should at least bear that in mind

The no space between name is trivial and that is OK

rajeshnat
Posts: 9906
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:04

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by rajeshnat »

For the record Sashi Kulkarni took several avatars like mankuthiamma ,coolkarni and one more id which i now forget. He left the forum not out of frustration and rift with his last post. There were reasons to accommodate his work travel , spending bit more time away from computer screen etc which made him to step out of the forum This is for the records mods had nothing to do with his last exit. He is passive and not writing that is all.

ON Harimau, he was to me a brilliant and insightful communicator . In his 80% avatar ,He gave lot of insider information , his english and written skills was superb. Yes he was not happy with Sudha and Sanjay getting SK . There were some slamdunks with Abhishek like abusheikh etc and his take on vidushi Aruna Sayeeram , raga sisters with some names. Ofcourse TMK when he had his run with his articles especially the last one which TMK wrote that reached american embassies that kind of worked against the travel visas of many artists which was his last active strike . In many cases i surely enjoyed harimaus counter and I know for sure many did. His reply as a person on few attacks that went against Cleveland aradhana atleast gave us to also see the other point of view .

Yes indeed There was a 20 % Not so pleasant bordering on being acerbic - Harimau avatar . But Harimau never spammed and he had lot of silence .He did not get into every post and didnot ever derail discussions. Overall till this day I miss Harimau. I am not grinding an ax against mods for the action that they had to do with Harimau if at all they indeed did . They had to do that action as it slowly built up too . Moderation cannot please all for sure. Our Mods are always fair and I see they are the best .

Having said all of this Many not coming with more posts in rasikas cannot be attributed because of slamdunks against Harimau, a teacher who is now saying that most teachers do not do justice. I also had one crib against one sequence that happens in this forum repeatedly that I put few months back.

Forum success is always decided on few critical things that has to happen
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1. The once active who have become passive contributors in general have to write more (eg Bilahari, Mahavishnu, Sindhuja, Bala747, Sujiram, Sangitharasika etal) .

2. There is facebook and whatsapp competitors which I hate but many feel more happy to write there and just casually come here. Musicians have a walled garden there , so they ask their main chelas to directly or indirectly write only in Facebook, Whatsapp. Threaded discussion in PHBBB gives structure , sequence and more importantly both sides of any point of view . But many donot get it and once when we continue to write new generation will get it .

3. New faces have to come to the forum . Even the youngest SrinathK has grown bit older now in last few years .SrinathK needs more younger brothers and younger sisters to write.That too with a loss of MKR, PonBhairavi and passive retirement from phenoms like CMLover, DRS , Coolkarni, Mahavishnu ,Bilahari, Sindhuja etc.

4. Which president said that Lincoln or Kennedy , I am just forgetting that . It is not what country can do for you , it is what you can do for the country. Replace Country with rasikas forum. Spare the mods please, contextual moderation is not possible ever.

All of you Please do write more, we will soon find our ways to resurrect back.

ganesh_mourthy
Posts: 1371
Joined: 02 Sep 2007, 23:08

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by ganesh_mourthy »

I agree that Rasikas need to contribure more and a couple of hyper sensitive rasikas storming out ... hey you have not seen a tougher world outside yet.

As I mentioned earlier , there is a generation gap of ideas. But that is also a treasure to exchange. skirmishes do happen and will tone down in the course of time.

sureshvv
Posts: 5523
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by sureshvv »

SrinathK wrote: 09 Oct 2020, 11:31 Thing is, he retired without sharing the juicier tales of his unique perspective behind the scenes with musicians over the years (or maybe admin didn't allow it). That would have been refreshingly honest, even if it meant demolishing many a pedestal. :twisted:
Oh Puhlease! Last thing we need on rasikas is "behind the scenes" gossip about artistes private behavior. Even harimau was way too classy for that. I hope no one takes up your invitation to be "refreshingly honest".
SrinathK wrote: I do not know if sureshvv is secretly rejoicing having outlasted his rival or grieving over the lack of a worthy sparring partner now. :lol:
I really don't worry too much about who is spewing the BS. May be you can already tell :D

rajeshnat
Posts: 9906
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:04

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by rajeshnat »

Srinath,
Harimau did not write any juicier tales especially bordering on tabloid like content as you seem to suggest . If there was some insight that was more to do with an intersection of how organizers and artists have challenges , minor squabbles . That insider info was shared minimally for only the sake of right information and also give a counter to the position that the opposite side has taken with their post or at times some flowery writeup in press circles.

Of course his biggest rant is the presence of abhangs(even before the two sangeetha kalanidhis that he did not like came up)which was not a polite NO . His Unfortunate Abhangs NO stand had far more loaded dynamite many surely enjoyed his short name calling of few popular artists. His vicious personality and post concentric circle took over.

In general when you write by challenging many artists/institutions at the same time , I have personally done few times not as many times or as frequent as harimau . It takes atleast lot of iterations to recheck and avoid few sentences which can be avoidable triggers . But people like Harimau just did not go in that write and recheck mode , rechecks take time-It is just nature of personality like harimau that did not believe in rechecking. It is one write and hit the submit button- fire it and always move on.

Nick H
Posts: 9379
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by Nick H »

For the record, Varsha was "cool's" latest, and I think last, incarnation. He was not always easy to get on, and neither was I, so we had one or two episodes of falling out. The silly thing is I can't even remember what the worst was all about.

What matters much more is that his knowledge and experience in HM as well as CM are enormous, and he contributed a great deal to the forum. He also organised several series of concerts for those of us in Chennai, bringing both youngsters and elders who deserved to be better recognised in the current day to the stage, or, more probably to the carpet of someone's home where we crammed in around them, listening in comfort with minimal or no amplification. I have lost count of those artists I know because of him. With that history it hardly matters at all that we may have argued from time to time.

Had I chosen concerts simply by following Harimau from hall to hall, I know that I would be a musically happy man! I don't think I ever avoided an artist simply on his say-so, but I do know that we were, independently mostly, although I did follow some of his recommendations, often in the same halls, and probably, also independently, never to be seen in others. Excepting that... I did come to realise that abhangs are not all bad :lol:.

I do not mind that he was blunt about music and musicians: I did mind the politics that that displaced humour in his later posts.

SrinathK
Posts: 2477
Joined: 13 Jan 2013, 16:10

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by SrinathK »

sureshvv wrote: 09 Oct 2020, 17:48
SrinathK wrote: 09 Oct 2020, 11:31 Thing is, he retired without sharing the juicier tales of his unique perspective behind the scenes with musicians over the years (or maybe admin didn't allow it). That would have been refreshingly honest, even if it meant demolishing many a pedestal. :twisted:
Oh Puhlease! Last thing we need on rasikas is "behind the scenes" gossip about artistes private behavior. Even harimau was way too classy for that. I hope no one takes up your invitation to be "refreshingly honest".
SrinathK wrote: I do not know if sureshvv is secretly rejoicing having outlasted his rival or grieving over the lack of a worthy sparring partner now. :lol:
I really don't worry too much about who is spewing the BS. May be you can already tell :D
No one will. Do not worry. The example in particular which I recall was the way he described an incident as to just how an irritated artiste upset with the mike settings and the audience's complaints showed a different set of multilingual verbal skills. He never gave out names or the gory details, but his unique story telling had me in splits. I am still searching for that post, but I think the mods must have removed it after someone dropped names. That kind of stuff -- the stories which only an organizer can spin.

srkris and vk have told me a few instances where he really went too far below the belt and it was removed before any of us saw it. Towards the end of his reign, the tiger apparently had a huge number of troll threads shut down on sight. I think vk mentioned somewhere about finally deciding to give him a one week ban after which he seems to have silently retired.

Behind the scenes though, he gave me some contact details of some people who could help me out digitizing my long rotting cassette collection. Unfortunately for various reasons, that initiative never came to pass.

ganesh_mourthy
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Joined: 02 Sep 2007, 23:08

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by ganesh_mourthy »

I am not very sure though , but it was at that time a few sudden handles propped up andwere effortlessly holding down the fort ( if it was what I actually deduce to be ) and I was just wondering how come there are some rookie with similar air. I am not sure if anyone noticed it and it was at this time the admins were warnign about imposters.

shankarank
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Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by shankarank »

Hmmmm.. Ariyakudi format posting seems to be wanted.. paNNiTTA pOchu ;)

There's the alpatvam/bahulatvam mix in everything you see! :lol:

ganesh_mourthy
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Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by ganesh_mourthy »

At times this ALPATVAM/BAHULATVAM is what entices me to read some of the posts and the reason I stick on until the end. Just wondering what kind of reading one should undertake to get vocabulary insight and richness in Tamil and this kind of Tamil.
I happened to read Mogamul of T J sometime ago and there were many many words that I had encountered for the first time.


SrinathK
Posts: 2477
Joined: 13 Jan 2013, 16:10

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by SrinathK »

Pratyaksham Bala wrote: 10 Oct 2020, 10:31
SrinathK wrote: 09 Oct 2020, 22:08... his unique story telling ...
Here are two :

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26412

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=22531
This exactly! Alas, later on harimau lost the fine balance he possessed here and succumbed completely to the dark side of trolling...

ganesh_mourthy
Posts: 1371
Joined: 02 Sep 2007, 23:08

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by ganesh_mourthy »

Srinath ...

Are you using your gmail ? I send a mail asking for some info. I doubt if it went to spam

GM

rajeshnat
Posts: 9906
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:04

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by rajeshnat »

SrinathK wrote: 10 Oct 2020, 11:22 This exactly! Alas, later on harimau lost the fine balance he possessed here and succumbed completely to the dark side of trolling...
If you look at last of Harimaus posts it is certainly bordering on being very communal . Definitely because of that Mods had to act Yes. But bit later just before his/her exit which also got purged there was a last thread which was an offshoot of the usual vidwan who wrote some articles in US based e-magazines . Those articles did reach US embassy and visa officials in USA and that indeed put a lot of difficulty for few prominent organizers .Lots of vidwans and vidushis had their US based visa delays and may be few cancellations. Harimau did make a great post there clearly informing us .That was a thread that had lot of flames inbuilt as many joined not just Harimau. The whole thread is now not there . He was so thoughtful to write without getting into filmi like gossip , indeed informed many of us the right context, the consequences of those writeups by that vidwan. It appeared as a good whistleblower post to me.All this happened some time in early 2018.

I met him/her and did talk in 2019 or so . He/She was not denying or acknowledging his/her identity . But i came to know the general absence was also because of not being in a position to spend more screen time to write and read in internet. . Of course Mods will know more than what I have stated . All said Mods did the right thing . I just donot want Harimau to be characterized with such a bad taste like maneater blah blah . I am only revealing my personal meet to inform the prominent reason for the absence.

sureshvv
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Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by sureshvv »

The Jason episode was pure dynamite :D

Don't think Jason has forgiven the Internet yet :lol:

ganesh_mourthy
Posts: 1371
Joined: 02 Sep 2007, 23:08

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by ganesh_mourthy »

Rajeshnat,

Harimau is a weird monicker and the person did not want to reveal anything in particular , but somehow all here were assusimng that to be some him.

And now you are mentioning the unsure He/She even after meeting in person. Why do you wish to cover up unless He/She pleaded not to reveal the identity.

See this is why it is better to meet and greet at least once. You are the only person who have met the tiger/tigress ???!!!

It all seem like military secret and RAW suspense - only the cryptography is missing.

But the He/She is to hint indirectly that it is not HIM . Easy giveaway .

Nick H
Posts: 9379
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Could you please avoid EXCESSIVE .. preferably no metaphors,, insinuations , hints , abstractions, conjectures

Post by Nick H »

Pratyaksham Bala wrote: 10 Oct 2020, 10:31
SrinathK wrote: 09 Oct 2020, 22:08... his unique story telling ...
Here are two :

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26412

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=22531
Ahhh... what a delight. I feel like I have been looking back on the golden age of rasikas.org as well as the golden age of Harimau. In the tiger's words:
The least we can do is poke fun at all that happens in the music world, be it the cowherd song, the tup-tup and dugu dugu or incidents such as this. Everybody is immersed in self-importance and we need a bit of levity in addition to sarcasm to bring a touch of sanity.
Sadly, the tiger became old and soured. Perhaps it is the human condition: I noticed that I was able to make some light-hearted contributions to those threads where, today, I might just snort and snarl. No tiger, I fear that I have just become a bit of a boar.

I am curious about the stage-interloper event. The news link is no longer active: does anybody remember the story behind that happening? Can they spill the beans now?

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