Voice Range of Carnatic Vocalists

Miscellaneous topics on Carnatic music
cacm
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#26

Post by cacm » 11 Apr 2008, 01:57

Dear V,
I just went to the reference you had kindly referred me to. VERY interesting. I had the good fortune of discussing this issue with the late GREAT PROF. S.Ramanathan as well as the researcher from Stanford. I felt the researcher had his own angles- my own biased view- but PROF. S.R.was ASTOUNDING to me as he could trace the development of the ragas over the ages strictly using history, language & various angles like folk tradirions etc that have contributed . Incidentally those interested in these angles should carefully listen to the ONE & ONLY Flute Mali who analytically & experimentally has shown what counts when it comes to various ragas!~
I thank you very much. You are the second Vasanthakokilam that has enlightened me on the finer points of carnatic music. I am almost tempted to say that the name Vasanthakokilam has magic associated with it! vkv
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cmlover
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#27

Post by cmlover » 11 Apr 2008, 05:33

Vk
Sonic visualizer is a powerful micro tool whereas the Histogram is a crude macro tool. I just wanted to illustrate that the sound spans the three octaves. But finer analysis may be carried out teasing out the components by those interested :)
Even otherwise your ears can tell you that succintly :)
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vasanthakokilam
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#28

Post by vasanthakokilam » 11 Apr 2008, 09:29

vkv: Thx.. pUvODu sErnthu nArum maNakkum applies here at many levels, not just the alias namesake but also this flowery forum and fellow forumites..:)
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ganesh_mourthy
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#29

Post by ganesh_mourthy » 11 Apr 2008, 13:46

Cm lover . yes ears can . but to graphically exlain to tothers..
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knandago2001
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#30

Post by knandago2001 » 18 Apr 2008, 08:52

“Bismillah Khan listened to my singing on his headphones with rapt attention and kept saying wah wah kya awaaz hai, and the music director had to remind him that he was supposed to play the shehnaiâ€
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arasi
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#31

Post by arasi » 18 Apr 2008, 09:23

knandago,
Thank you for the clip. Such good advice from the great playback singer. What a career! What a voice! A 'natural' one at that!

Thankful as we are to the Hindu articles, we also have to wonder why vidiyin viLaiyADal becomes vidiyin viLAiyATTu in the next line. Why a malayalam film is mentioned as a tamizh one (was it the malayalam version of nyAna Soundari?).
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gobilalitha
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#32

Post by gobilalitha » 18 Apr 2008, 10:07

post no21.Asha bhonsle rendering national anthem. excuse me when I pose the question,"the NA should be sung with pride, majesty, bravery, ;patriotism, no shreiking. Is it not? gobilalitha
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Sangeet Rasik
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#33

Post by Sangeet Rasik » 20 Apr 2008, 19:27

In my experience only BMK and KJY in CM are able to traverse 3 octaves effortlessly (without falsetto) and produce music (not only holding voice in the extreme ranges).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsetto

In case of KJY one can see the 3+ octave range in 1970s/1980s recordings. I have at least two such recordings that come to mind (one an RTP in Bhairavi and the other a Madhyamavati composition of ST). I do not know about TM Krishna.

Some interesting facts on voice range in music:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocal_rang ... ocal_range

SR
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Suji Ram
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#34

Post by Suji Ram » 22 Apr 2008, 02:39

http://sangeethamshare.org/asokan/CARNA ... lapana.mp3

Here's a Chakravakam alapana by KJY which has a range we are talking about.
It would be interesting to map how high or low he is going.
Check at 12.20 for high and 14.25 for low

Also I haven't heard an elaborate Chakravakam as this one. MSG also rocks!
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arunk
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#35

Post by arunk » 22 Apr 2008, 02:49

suji unless I am mistaken - that is tara panchamam to mandra sadjam.

Arun
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cmlover
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#36

Post by cmlover » 22 Apr 2008, 20:35

I agree Arun. He is singing at 1.5 kaTTai.
(we don't need the help of piitchappa here :)
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cmlover
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#37

Post by cmlover » 22 Apr 2008, 20:36

In fact that is about the limit of KJY. BMK can peak much higher...
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ramakriya
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#38

Post by ramakriya » 22 Apr 2008, 21:29

cmlover wrote:BMK can peak much higher...
I remember listening to BMK going to ati tAra shADja, while singing the anupallavi of kShIra sAgara shayana in dEvagAndhAri.

-Ramakriya

Thanks Arun :lol:
Last edited by ramakriya on 22 Apr 2008, 21:45, edited 1 time in total.
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arunk
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#39

Post by arunk » 22 Apr 2008, 21:31

i presume you mean ati-tara Sadja :)?

anu-mandra(?) - S## - N##
mandra: S# - N#
madya: S - N
tara: S* - N*
ati-tara: S** - N**


Arun
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arunk
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#40

Post by arunk » 22 Apr 2008, 21:38

Here you go, BMK doing his thing :) : http://sangeethamshare.org/manjunath/Ca ... Abheri.mp3

Now what are the extreme limits of his range (track stuff > tara pa, and < mandra ma) - and where do they occur?

(and this is just the first arbitrary sample I tried :). I just picked a main song in an early enough concert)

Arun
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cmlover
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#41

Post by cmlover » 22 Apr 2008, 22:59

ramakriya
You read my mind. That is precisely where I have heard BMK peaking. KJY was asked to sing the same in a concert and he found it impossible! The crescendo that BMK reached on'tAraka nAmA..' was unforgettable. And that was over 30 years ago!
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Suji Ram
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#42

Post by Suji Ram » 22 Apr 2008, 23:08

In Arun's sample.
the tara highs are at 2.09 2.59 which could be pa and 3.08is > than 2.59 possibly reaching ni or sa
the mandra stayi is somewhere between 4.30-4.35
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arunk
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#43

Post by arunk » 22 Apr 2008, 23:58

yep. I think goes up to tara-ni, and down to mandra sadjam. (mandra g2 prominent at 4:29 with perhaps a tinge of ri, and then either mgrs or grs in mandra stayi between 4:33-4:35

Arun
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arunk
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#44

Post by arunk » 23 Apr 2008, 01:23

One more: http://sangeethamshare.org/svasu/161-Sr ... -Thodi.mp3 . This employs a wider range than the above BMK sample - well into ati-tara, and also into anu-mandra. Although for the ati-tara, after a point, it is extremely difficult for me to say what is false and what is not :)

Arun
Last edited by arunk on 23 Apr 2008, 01:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Suji Ram
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#45

Post by Suji Ram » 23 Apr 2008, 01:36

The tODi clip is barely audible for some reason. From what I can hear when tara notes come fast in a brigha form they do sound false as opposed to slow and smooth glides.

is it necessary to sing like that :)

In compositions if any note goes below mandra Ma a red flag is raised I guess. Are they any compositions with tara Pa?
Last edited by Suji Ram on 23 Apr 2008, 01:45, edited 1 time in total.
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arunk
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#46

Post by arunk » 23 Apr 2008, 01:49

It was loud enough for me. Yes ati-tara is ati-too-much :) But I am impressed how effortlessly he goes to tara pancamam. If you simply seek into the tara stayi portion, you even forget it is tara stayi - as his voices shows minimal strain.

BTW, gowLa pancaratnam goes to mandra shuddha-rishabam! But beyond that mostly they stop at mandra madyamam. Tara-pa is certainly not uncommon For example, hamsadhwani varnam. I also know a mohanam swara-pallavi/swara-jati where tara-pa figures (always a struggle :) ). Of course the kAmbhOji gItam and the nATa gItam have it. I also learnt an abhEri krithi where it is touched in one sangati.

Beyond tara-pa I dont know if there are any compositions.

Arun
Last edited by arunk on 23 Apr 2008, 01:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Suji Ram
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#47

Post by Suji Ram » 23 Apr 2008, 02:03

BTW, gowLa pancaratnam goes to mandra shuddha-rishabam!
where? never mind found that lone ri

Yes, the tara pa, how can I forget the one nAta gItam and others..
Last edited by Suji Ram on 23 Apr 2008, 02:07, edited 1 time in total.
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cmlover
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#48

Post by cmlover » 23 Apr 2008, 02:50

The ati tara shadjam is a shriek and certainly an artefact. You can produce it if you prick yourself with a needle as I do everyday :) Let us not include non-musical excursions as 'voice range' :)
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arunk
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#49

Post by arunk » 23 Apr 2008, 02:57

The few times I have heard beyond tara-pa, it gets into "too much" category for my taste. But strangely, I don't feel the same for below mandra-ma. Although in some cases, when the musician is sort of struggling to get there, it is not as nice too.

Arun
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Suji Ram
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#50

Post by Suji Ram » 23 Apr 2008, 03:34

The few times I have heard beyond tara-pa, it gets into "too much" category for my taste.
they do sound like a male soprano...
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