Varnams

Miscellaneous topics on Carnatic music
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prasadvrg
Posts: 24
Joined: 11 Jul 2005, 12:22

#151

Post by prasadvrg »

Hello cmlover,

I am new to this forum. Iwas just reading the posts and read on of your posts:

meena
I was thinking of tying in the clip with the topic as well as the performer. More like the keywords we have in scientific circles. Once we have a number of clips we should be able to search using the acronym to find the relevant piece. I am not too clear in words but my thought process may be clear!


I use advacned id tagging method to label all my mp3 tracks. For my convenience, I also include the information such as where i sourced that particular track, accompanists and few other detials. If you want i can send a sample track so you can see if you can use.

Thanks for the wonderful discussion about CM.
Regards,
Prasad

cmlover
Posts: 11498
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

#152

Post by cmlover »

prasadvrg

Welcome

As you know meena is no longer editing the x-drive. We are still cautious about legal issues. But your offer of tagging the music files will be extremely useful for all of us. I myself am struggling with categorizing my music files. If this is your own technique pl make it available to the rest of us by uploading it in rapidshare. We may be able to initiate a thread discussing efficient classification of musical files. Of course your contribution will be fully acknowledged. Thanks

rshankar
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#153

Post by rshankar »

The elders in my family say that NCV also offered MSS great deal of competetion, and may have eclipsed MS had she lived.
I grew up hearing my mother say this almost everyday. But as I listen to the available recordings of NCV, I am not impressed: she is definitely good, and I love the fact that she sings many tamizh compositions, but great? I don't think so. IMHO, while the inherent 'musicality' in MSS's music may have not have been phenomenal, the unattainable something in MSS that makes millions wake up to her renderings in all corners of the world, and bring tears to numerous eyes by its sheer beseeching, is nowhere to be heard in the surviving recordings of NCV. Of course, (as many of us realize after reading Sri George's biography), Sri Sadasivam's astute, perceptive and brilliant planning and support played no mean a role in making her into a national and international treasure.
Ravi Shankar

Lakshman
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Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 18:52
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#154

Post by Lakshman »

But you are making these comments with all the years of MSS's music ringing in your ears while NCV's had stood still. The quote you have posted applies to the time when NCV had just passed on. So it it impossible to predict what could have happened had NCV lived as long a life as MSS.

kaapi
Posts: 146
Joined: 05 Jun 2005, 14:32

#155

Post by kaapi »

I have also heard from practising musicians that "then" the muscical abilities of both MSS and NCV were at par however "now" ( ie about 15 years after NCV had passed away) MSS has progressed tremendously.

BTW, we seem to be moving away from the basic idea of the thread ie. Varnam.

prasadvrg
Posts: 24
Joined: 11 Jul 2005, 12:22

#156

Post by prasadvrg »

Hello cmlover,
Thanks for the quick reply.

As Kaapi pointed out, I think we are going off the tangent in Varnam thread. May be you can start another thread for labelling the music files.

The system I follow to tag my music files is:

Start by numbering the Krithis as 01, 02 etc etc. Preferably in an album order or concert order. Also the Krithi name has the Ragam and Talam details added to it.

Then Select "Play all" and then right click the mouse over the play list and go to Advance ID tag link.

In there, I fill in the Artist Name, Name of the Album.
In Comments Section, I usually type down the Accomapanists Details.
In lyrics section, I type the Source, Contributed by and the date.

This way each music file is labelled and it is easy to trace them when they get lost with other music files.

When you right click on the music file, and go to properties->
-> advanced, there you will see all the details we entered.

This is only my way of labelling the music files. I am sure there may be other better ways.

Please let me know if I can be of any help.

I hope I have explained myself well.


Thanks and regards.
Prasad

vasya10
Posts: 101
Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 22:32

#157

Post by vasya10 »

Here is a fairly close-to automated working model of cataloging... I have found it to be useful...

1. All files are catagorized by Performer stored in PER_PerformerName directory (PER is a unique 1-3 char code for *all* the known performers/composers so far). (eg DKJ_DKJayaraman)
2. Within that directory, there are individual albums (eg DKJ_DikshitarKritis)
3. All files within the directory are renamed in the format ##_Name_Raga_Tala_Composer.mp3 (Optionally a _Performer can be appended, if different composers are within the same directory).
4. I try to keep a simple transliteration, though its not perfect.
5. If one of them is not known, then I mark it with x. This way I can search for all the "x" and change it when I learn more...
6. For mass format renaming, I use the freeware called Rename (1.56.0), its a small but powerful renamer.
7. I also try to split multiple-tracks per MP3 into individual files (I use MP3 TrackMaker, $15)
8. Finally, the MP3 files can be cataloged into Tags using TagRenamer (Shareware, $25). Given the file name format this will automatically extract the file name and place it in the MP3 Tags.
9. I wrote a few small programs which would then scan the directory "PER_Performer" and tell me which combination of directories gives me close-to 700MB, which I then take and burn into CD.
10. The program also scans the directory to note the mp3 playing time, bitrate etc and load into my My SQL Server relational database (has a close-to comprehensive database model of all attributes), ready for web-cataloging (which is not done yet).

Only tough part is to identify the raga, tala and rename the file. Once renamed, the reset is pretty automated.... On a +ve note, this has helped me to identify ragas a little better than what i was an year ago (im a very poor tala identifier though)...

If anyone needs any help in parts of above cataloging method, I will be more than glad to oblige...

prasadvrg
Posts: 24
Joined: 11 Jul 2005, 12:22

#158

Post by prasadvrg »

Thanks to the donor who donated Smt MSS's Canada live concert. the Varnam she started with is Superb: Mathe Malaye in Khamas. The only other place I heard this Varnam is in Morning Raga movie.

Smt MSS sang it with so much Bhava, it is simply marvellous.

thanks again,
Regards,
Prasad

arunk
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Joined: 07 Feb 2010, 21:41
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#159

Post by arunk »

I believe mAtE is technically considered a dAru. I dont remember the specific differences between dAru and varnam, but only that it is quite different from a varnam (i think: not as much AkAram, structure is different etc., the intent behind composing a varnam as a "lesson in the rAga" but dAru doesnt have that)

Arun

rshankar
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#160

Post by rshankar »

As far as I am able to tell, mAthEy malayaDHwaja pAndya sanjAthE (also sung by Sudha Raghunathan in her album on Devi Krithis), sri rAjarAjeshwarI etc. are dhAru varNams. The word dhAru alone is used for descriptive lyrics - many of the songs in 'naukA charitham' of Tyagaraja are dhArus. In music concerts, I have heard thAna varNams predominantly, with an occasional dhAru varNam, while dancers mainly use padha varNams. Here is what I have collected as the meaning of varNam and dhAru, but they are very general, and did not help me much. Maybe some one in this group can enlighten us more!

VARNAM: As in dance, in music also varnam is given great importance. Varnam, like geetham and swarajathi is used for teaching the form of the raga. It is also sung in concerts. Varnams are basically of three types, namely, tana varnam, pada varnam and daru varnam. Tana varnams begin with short sahithya passages. While only the pallavi, anupallavi and charanam have sahithya, the other parts are sung as swara passages. The pada varnam, on the other hand has sahithya in all its parts and is more popular in dance. The daru varnam includes jathi passages along with sahithya and swara. Some popular composers of varnam are Ramaswamy Dikshitar, Pallavi Gopala Iyer and the Tanjore Quartette.

DARU: A particular type of musical form (sabhaa gaanam), which relates a historical or puranic incident or ancient story, expressing love or the greatness of a generous person. It is often in madhyama kaalam, with pallavi, anupallavi (not always), and more than one caraNam, with a mixture of jatis. It is often used in dance dramas as an introduction (such as Arunaacala Kavi's RaamanaaTakam). There are 8 types of darus: pravEshika, varnanai, samvada, swaagata, uttara pratiuttara, jakkini, kONangi, and kOlaaTTa Daru.

Some specific questions are: what is the difference between the padha varNam and dhAru varNam? Is there a tradition on where to use which type of composition? How did they eveolve historically?
And if I understand the meaning of the types of dhArus, then 'chUdarE chellulArA' from naukA chanritham and 'maNNil arasarai pOl' (aruNAchala kavI's rAmanAtakam) are samvAdha dhArus....
Ravi

chithra
Posts: 122
Joined: 26 Jun 2005, 22:56

#161

Post by chithra »

I am not sure of the purpose of Dharu Varnams, but from what Ravi has written, but perhaps Dharus are nothing other than ballads that tell a story, and may have one or more themes described above.

Thaana varnams, on the other hand, are like grammar for the gamakams, thaanams for the ragam, and also provide good examples for kalpana swaram.

digression - agree with sri Lakshman; NCV is frozen whereas MSS evolved. Quite unfair to MSS of 80s with NCV at her peak.

Chithra

cmlover
Posts: 11498
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

#162

Post by cmlover »

chitra
Other strong competitors in those days were Anantalakshmi satagOpan (who withdrew due to illness) and Savitri ganesan (sishya of MMI) who fate plucked down untimely in the Ariyaloor train accident! (there are some who will add MLV too :D )

chithra
Posts: 122
Joined: 26 Jun 2005, 22:56

#163

Post by chithra »

Have been away for so long, and missed all discussions, downloads...

Though MLV may not have reached MSS's pinnacle in the popular front she was a musician par excellence, esp. in the realm of manodharma sangeetham. I believe that each of the triniumvirate - DKP, MLV and MSS - held / hold their unique positions, in their vidvath and in the public eye.

I apologise for this digression, fellow members. Srkris, pl. feel free to delete, move etc. As suggested somewhere here, perhaps a separate thread for discussions of composers, musicians etc...

Chithra

prasadvrg
Posts: 24
Joined: 11 Jul 2005, 12:22

#164

Post by prasadvrg »

Hello rshankar,
Thanks for the informative post about the Varnams.

Please pardon my ignorance. Since it was the first song, I thought it is a Varnam. I didn't know that there are 3 types of Varnams. I think Smt MSS usually sings TanaVarnams. Am I correct?

thanks again for the information.

Regards,
Prasad

kaapi
Posts: 146
Joined: 05 Jun 2005, 14:32

#165

Post by kaapi »

The description of the various type of varnams by rshankar is very informative.
However , the musicians start the kutcheris with Tana Varnams, including the madhyama kalam more as an voice excercise and get the kutcheri upto speed.
The Dharu Varnam in Kamas under discussion is a composition of HMB. MSS used to sing this during the late sixties and early seventies, starting probably from MA 1969 / 70.

rshankar
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#166

Post by rshankar »

I posted that information on the varNams, just to get some explanantions. I am still not aware what the difference is between a padha varNam and a dhAru varNam, or where and when they are supposed to be used!
There is another dhAru varNam in sudhDHA DHanyAsI composed by HMB (sri rAja mAthangI), sung very charmingly by Gayathri Girish. Gayathri also sings another varNam that sounds like a dhAru varNam to me: nI indha mAyam (DHanyAsI), or is it a padha varNam?
Ravi

arunk
Posts: 3424
Joined: 07 Feb 2010, 21:41
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#167

Post by arunk »

nI inda mAyam (papanasam sivan) is probably a pada varnam. I think pada varnams are used in dance - my guess is pada varnams involve a hero/heroine theme (where hero can be the Lord).

Arun

rshankar
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#168

Post by rshankar »

Here is a modification on a comment that I posted on another bb: Please pardon my ramblings as this is rather long!
As far as I can tell, the current format for a music concert was laid down by ARI (correct me if I am wrong) and the current 'mArgam' for a dance performance was laid down by the Tanjore Quartette.
A thAna varNam is used by the musician as a warm-up exercise (for the vocal cords, fingers, breathing technique etc), and is usually not a major piece.
A padha varNam on the other hand is the center peice of a dance recital. The legendary Balasaraswathi (in her acceptance speech at the Tamizh Isai Vizha) compared the traditional mArgam of the B'natyam programme to a trip to the temple: the dancer enters the temple through the alArippu, and traverses the arDHa mandapam in the jathiswaram, and enters the mandapam through the shabdham. The padha varNam comes next and is the CENTERPIECE of this format. Here the dancer is in the sanctum sanctorum and is in the presence of the deity. The dancer then communes quietly with god through the sedate padham that follows the varNam. This trip to the temple (and the performance) then concludes with a sparkling thillAna, like a brilliant karpUra ArathI!
So, I can see that the requirements of the thAna varNam are very different from that of a padha varNam. But when I listen to a dhAru varNam, I feel that the inherent rhythmicity of the piece is begging for a dancer to bring the poetry to life. Arun's point about the nAyaka/nAyakI theme of the padha varNam is well taken. It allows for the dancer to really show off his/her interprettive skill (aBinaya) expressing a myriad of emotions ranging from the pangs of separation to the ecstacy of union with the Lord. A dhAru varNam on the other hand actually sounds more like a dance-able thAna varNam.
Ravi Shankar

chithra
Posts: 122
Joined: 26 Jun 2005, 22:56

#169

Post by chithra »

Thank you, Ravi, for your description of the progress of Bhratha Natyam in a temple - very evocative; I shall now think of Naatyam differently.

Prasad, there are 4 types of Varnams- Chowka, Thaana, Pad and Dharu Varnams.

Nee indha maayam is definitely a Pada Varnam, used often by dancers. Pada Varnam, as its very name implies, conveys the Nayaka-Nayaki Bhava of a padam. Padam, in turn implies "Word", hence Saahithya, and its importance. The second half of the name, Varnam, suggests Varnanai or narration / description. In contrast to Pada Varnam, Saahithyam is insiginificant and sparse in a Thaana Varnam. For that reason, Thaana varnams typically have no Saahithya for Mukthayi swarams, Ethukada Swaram etc. It is possible that Pada Varnams had existed prior to Thaana Varnams, and that the latter were modeled on the former, but with the important difference of shifting the emphasis from Pada Bhaavam to incorporating Raaga Swaroopam, Thaanams, gamakams, swaram etc. Thus, even Thaana varnams may have had Saahithyam for all Angams initially, and eventually that got phased out. Perhaps a music / dance historian would comment on this - Davalangi / SRJ ???

Bhairavi ATa Thaala Varnam has Sahithyam for all its Angams, it certainly is a Thaana Varnam par excellence - probably it falls under the realm of Chowka Varna.

Dharus tell stories; musically, the charanams in a Dharu are tuned to one dhaathu (according to Prof. P. Sambamoorthy). In the Dharu Varnam in Kamas, in the Mukthaayi Swaram passage, the Solkaatu or Jathys have the same dhaathu as the Sahithya . And, as Ravi points out, the solkattus emphasize the rhythm - hence are more like Alarippu in a dance, perhaps. Also, a Dharu Varnam has six Angams - Swaram, sahithyam, PaaTam / Jathy, Ragam, Thaalam, Rasam. HMB has composed another Dharu Varnam in Kapi, which has Solkattus for its Ethukada Swarams.

Lastly, Thaana Varnams though not centre / main pieces in a concert, are very high-class compositions, meant to be practised in thrikaalam. They are not easy to learn, and the typical dwikaala singing warms up the throat / fingers, and builds up the concert atmosphere.

Ravi, the Sudha Dhanyasi Varnam, Sri Raja Mathangi - does it have any solkattus in it - I have heard it only as a Thaana Varnam ?

Chithra

rshankar
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#170

Post by rshankar »

Thank you, Ravi, for your description of the progress
Chithra,
That was actually Balasaraswathi's description, much as I'd like to claim credit for it!
Ravi, the Sudha Dhanyasi Varnam, Sri Raja Mathangi - does it have any solkattus in it - I have heard it only as a Thaana Varnam
I must listen to it again: have not heard it in a while!

THANKS for the detailed analysis of varNam: I have heard Priyadarshini Govind (an exquisite B'natyam dancer based in Chennai) describe varNam as 'color' and not 'varNanai'..!

Ravi

venkmal
Posts: 103
Joined: 23 Jun 2005, 10:38

#171

Post by venkmal »

please upload these varnams and also papanasam sivan's thanjam abogi
varnam with notations. thx.


Your Download-Link: http://rapidshare.de/files/2673042/Track_4.mp3.html
Your Download-Link: http://rapidshare.de/files/2672829/Track_3.mp3.html
Your Download-Link: http://rapidshare.de/files/2672377/Track_2.mp3.html
Your Download-Link: http://rapidshare.de/files/2672092/Track_1.mp3.html

chithra
Posts: 122
Joined: 26 Jun 2005, 22:56

#172

Post by chithra »

Venkmal:

I was able to d/l only

http://rapidshare.de/files/2673042/Track_4.mp3.html

which has a Varnam in Nalinakanthi (composed by Lalgudi Jayaraman, sung by ???) followed by one in Devamanohari (composed by ???, sung by Somu).

The other links are defunct.

Many thanks for the u/l

Chithra

meena
Posts: 3326
Joined: 21 May 2005, 13:57

#173

Post by meena »

Kji

could u pl. make a note after u are all settled in, can u pl. u/l sree TRS Varamu Varna- Dharmatma idu taye, thanks

drshrikaanth
Posts: 4066
Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 17:01

#174

Post by drshrikaanth »

two varnams, by mdr and msg
: http://rapidshare.de/files/4983493/mdr- ? a.MP3.html
: http://rapidshare.de/files/4999275/msg- ? i.mp3.html

and two lesser known kritis..
: http://rapidshare.de/files/4999511/Dars ? n.mp3.html
: http://rapidshare.de/files/4999891/Inna ? y.mp3.html

http://rapidshare.de/files/2672829/Track_3.mp3.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/2672377/Track_2.mp3.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/2672092/Track_1.mp3.html


i could dwnload only track4 rest r not workin. please can anyone u/l all these one by one.
thx. venkmal

venkmal
Posts: 103
Joined: 23 Jun 2005, 10:38

#175

Post by venkmal »

i could dwnload only track4 rest r not workin. please can anyone u/l all these one by one.
thx. venkmal

drshrikaanth
Posts: 4066
Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 17:01

#176

Post by drshrikaanth »

Can somebody post the Abhayamosakhi in Ahiri once again?

Also, Can somebody post the Track 1,2,3 of Coolkarni's posting?

I would really appreciate that. Thanks.

Anadam
Posts: 1
Joined: 27 Nov 2005, 15:45

#177

Post by Anadam »

Hello All,

I was in the lookout for the lyrics of Vanajaksha - Reetigowla - Ata - Vina Kuppayyar. But i was unable to get it inthe net. I would be thankful if some one could provide the same. Thanks

rnagarajan
Posts: 1
Joined: 14 Sep 2006, 09:33

#178

Post by rnagarajan »

Which year was Rangaswamy Nattuvanar born, is he alive and if not when did he pass away?

meena
Posts: 3326
Joined: 21 May 2005, 13:57

#179

Post by meena »

rnagarajan

full name: Srirangam Moolaiveetu Rangaswami Nattuvanar. Sorry he passed away, dont have the dates.

Lakshman
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Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 18:52
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#180

Post by Lakshman »

vanjAkSA (varNa). rAgA: rItigauLa. aTa tALA.

P: vanajAkSA ninnE kOrina nA vEsaTa dIrcci brOvumayyA
A: manasijuni ganna cakkani mA vENugOpAl I vELa
C: anniTiki nIvE dikkani

Lakshman
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#181

Post by Lakshman »

DRS: I was not sure if you wanted the lyrics or the clip of abhayam osagavE posted. Here re the lyrics:

abhayam osagavE. rAgA: Ahiri. Adi tALA.

P: abhayam osagavE kanakapurAlaya aparAdhita dEvi kanikaram nIvE
A: tapapuliyeninunE sairintu gElEdA abala tapulanniyu carincina
C: rAjarAjEshvari Ahiri gauri rAjarAjAdhi vinuta kaumAri
tEjOmayi sundaratari tavakunu pogaDe tamakamu priyakari

drshrikaanth
Posts: 4066
Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 17:01

#182

Post by drshrikaanth »

Dear lakshman
I had even forgotten that I made this post. I dont remember why I wrote it. Thanks all the same.

Rasika911
Posts: 521
Joined: 09 Mar 2009, 06:11

#183

Post by Rasika911 »

In the future i think it is better to upload tracks/audio files on sangeethapriya. This rapid share expires too quickly....all this effort in this thread become wasted after a while and the info no longer availible.

amrutham
Posts: 5
Joined: 23 Sep 2009, 17:14

#184

Post by amrutham »

Can someone share the charukesi varnam "Innum en manam ariyadhavarpol" by lalgudi sir, pl.
thanks in advance.

srinivasrgvn
Posts: 1013
Joined: 30 Nov 2008, 07:46

#185

Post by srinivasrgvn »

-
Last edited by srinivasrgvn on 27 Dec 2009, 12:40, edited 1 time in total.

amrutham
Posts: 5
Joined: 23 Sep 2009, 17:14

#186

Post by amrutham »

Thank you very much srinivasrgvn!

jayakrishna
Posts: 3
Joined: 18 Mar 2016, 04:36

#187 enna thavam saidhanai

Post by jayakrishna »

I would appreciate if any one can send me notation for enna thavam saidhanai

And Venkatachalanilayam of Sri. Purandaradasar

sarojaraman
Posts: 14
Joined: 07 Mar 2016, 11:25

#188 Re: Varnams

Post by sarojaraman »

Hi Chitra
Well said. Of course there are many varna ms which are not popular in concert arena like varna ms by Veena seshanna, R. Venugopal, Kalyani varadarajan,OgiralaVeeraraghava Sarma, Tiger Varadachari, GNB, etc.

ashwinimrn
Posts: 12
Joined: 22 Jun 2018, 17:47

#189 Re: Varnams

Post by ashwinimrn »

Can anyone please give me the correct Sahithya for Hamsanandi varnam by Jaya Chamendra Wodeyar.

veenasg
Posts: 13
Joined: 27 Jun 2018, 16:20

#190 Re: Varnams

Post by veenasg »

Can anybody send Varnam in the raga Nayaki to [email protected] ? Thank you.

Lakshman
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Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 18:52
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#191 Re: Varnams

Post by Lakshman »

veena: Please check your mailbox.

ajaysimha
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#192 Re: Varnams

Post by ajaysimha »

hi rasikas,

had a few queries on varnam- topic:

1.like we know about the huseni swarajathi is the oldest possible among available swarajathis.
can i know which is the oldest varnam available till date ??

2.what does swarajathi varnam mean ??(mostly used word among bharathanatyam works)

3.what does by tana-varna-margam mean?
(i have read that thyagarajar's pancharathnam are composed in tana-varna-margam so that they can be sung in a madhyamakalam tempo also the swarams can be sung as thanam (with a-nam-tha syllables) i had seen this being experimented by pantula ram madam in one of the december's magrazhi programs for endaro mahanubhavulu)

4.what is Chitra-Thara-Margam ? i have read (Varnams are compositions under Chitra-Thara-Margam. So they have
4 aksharams per kriya)

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