Top ten egregious mispronunciation of lyrics
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#26
I found this link: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_m ... name_rania
"RANIA means as Indian name"queen" or "singing Queen"
but in Arabic it means "contented or satisfied by what she has"
in Greek it's a part of "Ourania" which means heaven
it also means "Royal" "
"RANIA means as Indian name"queen" or "singing Queen"
but in Arabic it means "contented or satisfied by what she has"
in Greek it's a part of "Ourania" which means heaven
it also means "Royal" "
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#28
Yes CML, rANI to rANA is a case of reverse masculization.
But Arabic rani is not related at all to either tamil or sanskrit rani in any way. Tamil has borrowed rANI from prakrit (like lots and lots of other sanskrit & prakrit words found in old tamil such as ilakkaNam, ilakkiyam, mA, to mention a few) and prakrit rANI in turn is nothing but a simplified form of sanskrit rAj~ni.
Indic rAj~ni has cognates all over the Indo-European family, it has structural affinities with IE. We cant randomly speculate based on similar sounding words.
But Arabic rani is not related at all to either tamil or sanskrit rani in any way. Tamil has borrowed rANI from prakrit (like lots and lots of other sanskrit & prakrit words found in old tamil such as ilakkaNam, ilakkiyam, mA, to mention a few) and prakrit rANI in turn is nothing but a simplified form of sanskrit rAj~ni.
Indic rAj~ni has cognates all over the Indo-European family, it has structural affinities with IE. We cant randomly speculate based on similar sounding words.
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#29
It must be 'masculinize' 
check
http://www.answers.com/topic/masculinize
If rANI is in prakrit then how come it did not pass into classical sanskrit ?
My reasoning is that it cannot be derived from any of the existing dhAtus as per pANini.
rAjan is derived from 'ra~nj rAgE' (to please) but 'raN shabdE' (to sound) does not yield 'rANan' with a relevant meaning. You are permitted to coin such a word using the 'kanin' pratyayam but that would mean something related to sounding. For example the dictionary sports the word 'rANikA' (which means a bridle) derived from this dhAtu. Hence my supposition is that 'rANI' was imported into prakrit subsequently and could not be admitted into classical sanskrit!

check
http://www.answers.com/topic/masculinize
If rANI is in prakrit then how come it did not pass into classical sanskrit ?
My reasoning is that it cannot be derived from any of the existing dhAtus as per pANini.
rAjan is derived from 'ra~nj rAgE' (to please) but 'raN shabdE' (to sound) does not yield 'rANan' with a relevant meaning. You are permitted to coin such a word using the 'kanin' pratyayam but that would mean something related to sounding. For example the dictionary sports the word 'rANikA' (which means a bridle) derived from this dhAtu. Hence my supposition is that 'rANI' was imported into prakrit subsequently and could not be admitted into classical sanskrit!
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#30
I don't know what you are talking about. Is there a rule that a Prakrit form of an Indic word should pass into Sanskrit?
rANI is not the sanskrit form. It is a prakritization of sanskrit rAj~ni and entered into tamil from prakrit.
rANI is not the sanskrit form. It is a prakritization of sanskrit rAj~ni and entered into tamil from prakrit.
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#34
1) btw, how do you say the 'j~' part of rAj~nI ?
2) Can Hindi be considered a prakrit form of Sanskrit? Or only marAthi, gujarAthi and bengAli will qualify.
3) I am still trying to understand what Suresh said which brought up this rANi discussion.
Suresh, what are your expectations? In MD compositions it should be 'rAj~nI' whereas in other languages 'rANi' is OK? Or there are some other rules?
2) Can Hindi be considered a prakrit form of Sanskrit? Or only marAthi, gujarAthi and bengAli will qualify.
3) I am still trying to understand what Suresh said which brought up this rANi discussion.
Suresh, what are your expectations? In MD compositions it should be 'rAj~nI' whereas in other languages 'rANi' is OK? Or there are some other rules?
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#36
My expectation is that the singer can both tell and convey the difference and use the one that is appropriate.vasanthakokilam wrote: Suresh, what are your expectations? In MD compositions it should be 'rAj~nI' whereas in other languages 'rANi' is OK?
I don't think it is strictly Sanskrit vs. Tamil compositions. For example, the tamil Sivan kriti "Devi Neeye Thunai" in Keeravani uses raj~ni, I think. Don't mean to throw a spanner in the "Language" works here

Last edited by sureshvv on 06 Jan 2010, 20:50, edited 1 time in total.
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#38
I assume the j~n in rAj~ni is similar to the in j~n in words like sarvaj~na, vij~nyAn, j~nyAni, poorna praj~nya, etc.
If so its more common representation in English transliteraruin is jn or gn or jny/gny. (gnAni, vignAnam).
In Marathi, they use the combination dny for the same sound I think (dnyAn = jnyAn / gnAn / gnyAn / gyAn).
If so its more common representation in English transliteraruin is jn or gn or jny/gny. (gnAni, vignAnam).
In Marathi, they use the combination dny for the same sound I think (dnyAn = jnyAn / gnAn / gnyAn / gyAn).
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#39
Several people pronounce it as 'gya' insterad of 'jna'. e.g. Vigyaan bhavan for Vijnaan bhavan
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#40
"O Ranga sayee" instead of "O Ranga shayee" is another commonly heard screw up.
Kudos to Sriram Parthasarathy for doing a neraval at "Shukha Shounakhaadhi" and getting it right consistently. May be singing for the movies has him more careful about lyrics... Not!
Kudos to Sriram Parthasarathy for doing a neraval at "Shukha Shounakhaadhi" and getting it right consistently. May be singing for the movies has him more careful about lyrics... Not!
Last edited by sureshvv on 25 Jan 2010, 11:15, edited 1 time in total.
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#41
In Telugu, we have 3 kinds of 'sa' sounds and I thought it is similar in Sanskrit. Here is my understanding of the three kinds of 'sa' sounds.
1. 'sa' as in the first syllable in the word 'sanskrit'. When you pronounce this 'sa', you direct a stream of air very close to the teeth in the front of your mouth.
2. 'sha' as in the second syllable of the word 'vishnu'. You pronounce this 'sh' sound by directing the stream of air to the middle of your mouth.
3. 'sha' as in the first syllables of the words 'shuka', 'shounaka', 'shiva', 'shankara'. This is the most commonly confused one. For pronouncing this, you would direct the air stream neither like 1. above nor like 2. above. You would direct the air stream somewhere in between 1. and 2., so it effectively neither sounds like 'sa' as in 'sanskrit' nor like 'sha' as in 'vishnu'. It definitely sounds different from 1. and 2.
Can any pronunciation experts in Sanskrit confirm/correct the above please?
1. 'sa' as in the first syllable in the word 'sanskrit'. When you pronounce this 'sa', you direct a stream of air very close to the teeth in the front of your mouth.
2. 'sha' as in the second syllable of the word 'vishnu'. You pronounce this 'sh' sound by directing the stream of air to the middle of your mouth.
3. 'sha' as in the first syllables of the words 'shuka', 'shounaka', 'shiva', 'shankara'. This is the most commonly confused one. For pronouncing this, you would direct the air stream neither like 1. above nor like 2. above. You would direct the air stream somewhere in between 1. and 2., so it effectively neither sounds like 'sa' as in 'sanskrit' nor like 'sha' as in 'vishnu'. It definitely sounds different from 1. and 2.
Can any pronunciation experts in Sanskrit confirm/correct the above please?
Last edited by Music on 26 Jan 2010, 00:45, edited 1 time in total.
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#44
I found another instance of (what I believe to be) a major mispronunciation of a major song by a major artist.
http://www.charsur.com/charsur/index.ph ... ts_id=2964
She says "bakkala" again and again!!!
http://www.charsur.com/charsur/index.ph ... ts_id=2964
She says "bakkala" again and again!!!
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#45
Really? I hear a 'pa' and not a 'ba'.. May be she can be a bit more plosive on that 'pa' but hers is close to 'pa' than 'ba'. Let us see how others hear it.
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#47
Oops, sorry she is perfect the first time. I heard with headphones this time, laptop speakers last time. I should be more careful though.
However I think she says nilapaTi and volicE instead of nilabaDi and golicE
However I think she says nilapaTi and volicE instead of nilabaDi and golicE
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#48
There are four variations with 'pa/ba' and 'Ti/Di' and you say nilabaDi is correct. I hear the other three variations.
Sorry Gayathri for the micro analysis. srkris started it 
With laptop speakers.
nilabaTi - first time
nilapaTi - second time
nilapaDi - third time
-----------
And voliche or oliche


With laptop speakers.
nilabaTi - first time
nilapaTi - second time
nilapaDi - third time
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And voliche or oliche
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#49
>sridhar_rang wrote :
I assume the j~n in rAj~ni is similar to the in j~n in words like sarvaj~na, vij~nyAn, j~nyAni, poorna praj~nya, etc.<
I am giving the first lines of two songs of tyAgarAja where this diphthong occurs in the beginning and middle of words. I would like to know the correct pronunciations.
1 j~nAnamosaga rAda
जà¥ÂÂ
I assume the j~n in rAj~ni is similar to the in j~n in words like sarvaj~na, vij~nyAn, j~nyAni, poorna praj~nya, etc.<
I am giving the first lines of two songs of tyAgarAja where this diphthong occurs in the beginning and middle of words. I would like to know the correct pronunciations.
1 j~nAnamosaga rAda
जà¥ÂÂ
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#50
Govindaswamy, based on my exposure to Sanskrit and Malayalam (in addition to Tamil) I can tell you that the 'correct' pronunciation does have the 'ja' sound before the '~na' sound. The use of 'ga' sound seems to be a Tamil speciality!
I assume both Kannada and Telugu also use the 'j~na' sound, knowing they are based on Sanskrit.
I assume both Kannada and Telugu also use the 'j~na' sound, knowing they are based on Sanskrit.
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