Single Transliteration Scheme for all CM Languages - Part 2

Languages used in Carnatic Music & Literature
Post Reply
ramakriya
Posts: 1833
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 02:05

#201

Post by ramakriya » 11 Jan 2008, 10:14

vgvindan wrote:Can someone please explain how 'SArnga' (in SArnga dhara) will be written in Telugu and Kannada?
In Sanskrit it is written as शार्ङ्ग -
In view of the virama after 'r' - it is not possible to codify Anusvara (sunna) in place of G-n. Can it be written as శార్ఙ్గ - ಶಾರ್ಙ್ಗ - ie without Sunna?
vgvindan,

It looks right in Kannada

-Ramakriya
0 x

vgvindan
Posts: 1430
Joined: 13 Aug 2006, 10:51

#202

Post by vgvindan » 11 Jan 2008, 11:24

ramakriya,
Thanks
0 x

shishya
Posts: 262
Joined: 08 Jan 2007, 20:02

#203

Post by shishya » 11 Jan 2008, 18:42

my mistake. Without the ga, it would be sArnya. The dictionary way is right.
0 x

vgvindan
Posts: 1430
Joined: 13 Aug 2006, 10:51

#204

Post by vgvindan » 11 Jan 2008, 19:38

shishya,
Thanks
0 x

arunk
Posts: 3424
Joined: 07 Feb 2010, 21:41
x 2

#205

Post by arunk » 27 Feb 2008, 20:59

FYI: I have updated the transliteration scheme and transliterator to version 1.1. You can find information about it at http://arunk.freepgs.com/wordpress/cm-t ... lease-v11/ . The big change is support for the "grantha Sa" character i.e. the one for Siva Sakthi (the one you find in Slokam books).

Also I have "redressed" by arunk.freepgs.com website a couple of weeks ago: http://arunk.freepgs.com . It now follows a "blog" like format and so you can leave feedback (or ask questions) on various topics on the website itself.

Thanks
Arun
0 x

Mahalakshmi
Posts: 145
Joined: 20 Feb 2008, 17:28

#206

Post by Mahalakshmi » 08 Mar 2008, 23:53

Dear arunk

Is it possible to transliterate malayalam script into english?

Mahalakshmi
0 x

vgvindan
Posts: 1430
Joined: 13 Aug 2006, 10:51

#207

Post by vgvindan » 09 Mar 2008, 00:24

mahalakshmi,
Arun's website is comprehensive enough for such transliterations. However, if you need any further help, please contact me at [email protected] with sample Malayalam Unicode script.
0 x

arunk
Posts: 3424
Joined: 07 Feb 2010, 21:41
x 2

#208

Post by arunk » 09 Mar 2008, 01:16

Sorry - my transliterator http://arunk.freepgs.com/wordpress/cm-t ... literator/ does not yet have Malayalam to English.

I should be able to easily add but the problem is Malayalam support itself is shaky - so results may not be entirely accurate.

Arun
0 x

arunk
Posts: 3424
Joined: 07 Feb 2010, 21:41
x 2

#209

Post by arunk » 04 Apr 2008, 20:23

A new release (v1.2) of the CM Transliterator and the Unified CM transliteration Scheme is now available at http://arunk.freepgs.com. This release has the following features/enhancements:
* Open/Save feature - now you can save you transliteration input to a file on your computer and open it later in the transliterator. Previously you had it do this manually by copying the contents to clipboard and pasting it into notepad or a text editor.
* More options for Sanskrit anuswara control (and some bug fixes in the previous anuswara control)
* Font control - you can control which font the transliterator should use for various languages
* Sanskrit avagraha symbol support.

Please let me know if you have any questions or run into problems.

Arun
0 x

ramakriya
Posts: 1833
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 02:05

#210

Post by ramakriya » 12 Apr 2008, 11:59

Arun,

I had not seen this post, but noticed the save button when I was doing something today :) Very helpful!

Thanks

-Ramakriya
0 x

rshankar
Posts: 13102
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26
x 374
x 102

#211

Post by rshankar » 01 May 2008, 07:33

Here is a very nice site that does transliteration very well. I like it particularly because it has an intuitive use of the candrabindu among other things.

http://www.quillpad.com/hindi/

Replace it with http://www.quillpad.com/tamil/ and you will get the tamizh transliterator page and so on....
0 x

rajesh_rs
Posts: 184
Joined: 01 Dec 2007, 11:18
Location: Syracuse, NY
Contact:

#212

Post by rajesh_rs » 22 Jul 2009, 16:33

This is such an awesome idea. Kudos to Arun!
0 x

ragam-talam
Posts: 1896
Joined: 28 Sep 2006, 02:15
x 1

#213 Re: Single Transliteration Scheme for all CM Languages - Par

Post by ragam-talam » 27 Aug 2010, 01:13

Have a question for Arun:
Malayalam has the sound similar to 'Ta' but the T is pronounced with the tip of the tongue touching the front teeth. So, for example, the word 'enTe' (meaning 'my' in Malayalam) uses this sound for T.
How does one represent this in the transliteration scheme?

Also, how does one represent the 'chandra-kalai'? e.g. the ending sound in 'pandu' (for ball)

[ The quillpad site mentioned above provides alternatives, and you can choose the correct one. So for e.g if you enter 'n', the editor proposes ன் / ந் / ண் etc - and you choose the preferred alphabet in the target language. ]
Last edited by ragam-talam on 27 Aug 2010, 01:40, edited 1 time in total.
0 x

arunk
Posts: 3424
Joined: 07 Feb 2010, 21:41
x 2

#214 Re: Single Transliteration Scheme for all CM Languages - Par

Post by arunk » 27 Aug 2010, 01:36

r-t,

I have not worked on this in general for a while. As per last status (from a while ago) Malayalam support is incomplete - at that time I remember encountering that Malayalam Unicode support had problems (as in buggy) which was the main problem. I do not know if it has been sorted out.

BTW, the "Ta" with the tip of tongue is pretty much how the first R of kaRRa in Tamizh should be pronounced (it is say nearer to tip) but in transliteration scheme it is "preferably" to say kaTRa since that is "more obvious" (i.e. from a more universal perspective). But kaTRa if spelt stricly using Tamizh phonetics would take a harder Ta (tongue rolled inside a bit) - the one that would be inappropriate for enTe in malayalalam, as well as kaRRa. People may remember srkris saying there was difference between kaRRa and kaTRa phonetically. This is it.

Long story short at this point it would have to be Ta. But given incomplete malayalam support, that isnt going to be a lot of help! Sorry!

Arun
0 x

ragam-talam
Posts: 1896
Joined: 28 Sep 2006, 02:15
x 1

#215 Re: Single Transliteration Scheme for all CM Languages - Par

Post by ragam-talam » 27 Aug 2010, 11:47

Thanks, Arun. Hope the improvement will happen some day.
What about chandrakalai?
0 x

arunk
Posts: 3424
Joined: 07 Feb 2010, 21:41
x 2

#216 Re: Single Transliteration Scheme for all CM Languages - Par

Post by arunk » 27 Aug 2010, 20:44

No support yet (I think, its been a while, I will check). Since I couldnt get basic support working, I did not concentrate on malayalam specifics.

Arun
0 x

vgovindan
Posts: 1453
Joined: 07 Nov 2010, 20:01
x 33
x 77

#217 Re: Single Transliteration Scheme for all CM Languages - Par

Post by vgovindan » 12 Mar 2011, 20:31

ஶிவன் - The grantha letter ஶ representing श seems to have been codified as part Tamil Unicode set with hex 0BB6. The keyboard mapping for the letter is not known.
0 x

srkris
Site Admin
Posts: 3415
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 03:34
Location: London, UK
x 9
x 15
Contact:

#218 Re: Single Transliteration Scheme for all CM Languages - Par

Post by srkris » 16 Apr 2011, 21:00

Thanks Sri Vgovindan. That letter is like the ழ, which is playing hide and seek these days.
0 x

vgovindan
Posts: 1453
Joined: 07 Nov 2010, 20:01
x 33
x 77

#219 Re: Single Transliteration Scheme for all CM Languages - Part 2

Post by vgovindan » 13 Aug 2018, 19:56

Please refer to Post #83 -
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1999&hilit=anuswar ... =75#p35793

The question of anuswara was discussed in this thread earlier. However, a doubt has been raised by Shri Sivaramakrishnan, a forum member, that in case of Malayalam the anuswara is to be invariably used at the end of a word - like चरणं and not चरणम्. I am of the opinion that virama म् should be used at the end of a sentence or words standing alone; in the middle of the sentence - as the ending of a word (चरणं) - and in certain compound words with prefix like 'saM', anuswara should be used. (saMyukta, haMsa etc - which is not a syllable)

I request views of members - not only with reference to Malayalam, but also Kannada and Telugu. This is required in regard to implementation in my blog posts.
0 x

vgovindan
Posts: 1453
Joined: 07 Nov 2010, 20:01
x 33
x 77

#220 Re: Single Transliteration Scheme for all CM Languages - Part 2

Post by vgovindan » 16 Aug 2018, 03:11

अङ्क अङ्ख अङ्ग अङ्घ
അങ്ക അങ്ഖ അങ്ഗ അങ്ഘ
?? അംക അംഖ അംഗ അംഘ

अञ्च अञ्छ अञ्ज अञ्झ
അഞ്ച അഞ്ഛ അഞ്ജ അഞ്ഝ
?? അംച അംഛ അംജ അംഝ

अण्ट अण्ठ अण्ड अण्ढ अण्ण
അണ്ട അണ്ഠ അണ്ഡ അണ്ഢ അണ്ണ
?? അംട അംഠ അംഡ അംഢ അണ്ണ

अन्त अन्थ अन्द अन्ध अन्न
അന്ത അന്ഥ അന്ദ അന്ധ അന്ന
?? അംത അംഥ അംദ അംധ അന്ന

अम्प अम्फ अम्ब अम्भ अम्म
അമ്പ അമ്ഫ അമ്ബ അമ്ഭ അമ്മ
?? അംപ അംഫ അംബ അംഭ അമ്മ

Please confirm whether the (??) (sunna-anusvara) marked line transliterations are correct.
However, अण्ण, अन्न and अम्म will be transliterated without anusvara (sunna)
0 x

Govindaswamy
Posts: 99
Joined: 21 Feb 2010, 06:55
x 2

#221 Re: Single Transliteration Scheme for all CM Languages - Part 2

Post by Govindaswamy » 16 Aug 2018, 09:23

In My opinion the sunna (anuswara) is used in Telugu and Kannada exclusively. In these two Dravidian languages the sunna replces all the corresponding nasal consonants (மெல்லின மெய்யெழுத்துக்கள் ங்,ஞ்,ண்,ந்,ம், ) which precede the corresponding consonants (க, ச,ட,த ப ) in Tamil. The nasal consonants have become redundant in Telugu and Kannada.
Though I can read Malayalam I have only partial knowledge in it. But I feel that Malayalam is similar to Tamil in use of these nasal consonants ങ്,ഞ്,ണ്,ന്, മ്. However these nasal consonants are joined with the corresponding consonants which follow these. About 50 years ago people used to join couple of letters while writing in Tami
In Indian Language converter which is one of the transliteration softwares which I use the words which you gave get typed as അണ്ണ, അന്ന, അമ്മ.

I checked up your blog spot at random . The Malayalam transliteration is fine. The sample is given below. മന്നിമ്പുമയ്യ . No anuswara/sunna is used. Among the Dravidian languages only Telugu and Kannada have borrowed Anuswara from Sanskrit and in the process lost the use of nasal consonants. In these two languages sunna takes different nasal sounds depending upon the consonantt which follows it.
0 x

vgovindan
Posts: 1453
Joined: 07 Nov 2010, 20:01
x 33
x 77

#222 Re: Single Transliteration Scheme for all CM Languages - Part 2

Post by vgovindan » 16 Aug 2018, 16:36

Govindaswamy Sir,
This has been projected by a forum member by name Sivaramakrishnan. He says that in places like चरणं, sunna (anuswara) should be used and not as चरणम्. That is why I asked those who know Malayalam to confirm whether use of Sunna is acceptable in Malayalam. (In Tamil, as you know, there is no sunna principle. Malayalam has it.)

When I started my blog, I had placed my transliteration scheme of Telugu, Kannada and Malayalam for suggestions. It was then (2007) suggested that - as you said - only Telugu and Kannada use sunna in all places and not G, J, N, n and m. However, no one suggested about Malayalam then. All my blogposts follow this method only.

That is why I needed approval from people knowledgeable in Malayalam.
Thanks for the input. I shall await more response.
0 x

Post Reply