What is it that keeps the country down...

Languages used in Carnatic Music & Literature
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venkatakailasam
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#1 What is it that keeps the country down...

Post by venkatakailasam » 14 Oct 2013, 22:13

What is it that keeps the country down... Swaminathan Gurumurthy...

"What is it that keeps the country down", asked the speaker. A young man in the audience replied unhesitatingly: "Undoubtedly the institution of caste that kept the majority low castes and the society backward" and added "it continues".

The speaker replied, "May be". But, pausing for a moment, he added, "May not be". Shocked, the young man angrily asked him to explain his "may-not-be" theory.

The speaker calmly mentioned just one fact that clinched the debate. He said, "Before the British rule in India, over two-thirds - yes, two-thirds - of the Indian kings belonged to what is today known as the Other Backward Castes (OBCs).

"It is the British," he said, "who robbed the OBCs - the ruling class running all socio-economic institutions - of their power, wealth and status." So it was not the upper caste which usurped the OBCs of their due position in the society?

The speaker’s assertion that it was not so was founded on his study - unbelievably painstaking study for years and decades in the archives in India, England and Germany. He could not be maligned as a ‘saffron’ ideologue and what he said could not be dismissed thus. He was Dharampal, a Gandhian in ceaseless search of truth like his preceptor Gandhi himself was, but a Gandhian with a difference. He ran no ashram on state aid to do ‘Gandhigiri’.

Admitting that "he and those like him do not know much about our own society", the young man who questioned Dharampal - Banwari is his name - became his student. By meticulous research of the British sources over decades, Dharampal demolished the myth that India was backward educationally or economically when the British entered. Citing the Christian missionary William Adam’s report on indigenous education in Bengal and Bihar in 1835 and 1838, Dharampal established that at that time there were 100,000 schools in Bengal, one school for about 500 boys; that indigenous medical system that included inoculation against small-pox.

He also proved by reference to other materials that Adam’s record was ‘no legend’. He relied on Sir Thomas Munroe’s report to the Governor at about the same time to prove similar statistics about schools in Madras. He also found that the education system in the Punjab during the Maharaja Ranjit Singh’s rule was equally extensive. He estimated that the literary rate in India before the British was higher than that in England.

Citing British public records he established, on the contrary, that ‘British had no tradition of education or scholarship or philosophy from 16th to early 18th century, despite Shakespeare, Bacon, Milton, Newton, etc’. Till then education and scholarship in the UK was limited to select elite. He cited Alexander Walker’s Note on Indian education to assert that it was the monitorial system of education borrowed from India that helped Britain to improve, in later years, school attendance which was just 40, 000, yes just that, in 1792. He then compared educated people’s levels in India and England around 1800. The population of Madras Presidency then was 125 lakhs and that of England in 1811 was 95 lakhs. Dharampal found that during 1822-25 the number of those in ordinary schools in Madras Presidency was around 1.5 lakhs and this was after great decay under a century of British intervention.

As against this, the number attending schools in England was half - yes just half - of Madras Presidency’s, namely a mere 75,000. And here to with more than half of it attending only Sunday schools for 2-3 hours! Dharampal also established that in Britain ‘elementary system of education at people’s level remained unknown commodity’ till about 1800! Again he exploded the popularly held belief that most of those attending schools must have belonged to the upper castes particularly Brahmins and, again with reference to the British records, proved that the truth was the other way round.

During 1822-25 share of Brahmin students in indigenous schools in Tamil-speaking areas accounted for 13 per cent in South Arcot to some 23 per cent in Madras while the backward castes accounted for 70 per cent in Salem and Tirunelveli and 84 per cent in South Arcot. The situation was almost similar in Malayalam, Oriya and Kannada-speaking areas, with the backward castes dominating schools in absolute numbers. Only in Telugu-speaking areas the share of the Brahmins was higher and varied from 24 to 46 per cent. Dharampal’s work proved Gandhi’s statement at Chatham House in London on October 20, 1931 that "India today is more illiterate than it was fifty or hundred yrs ago" completely right.

Not many know of Dharampal or of his work because they have still not heard of Indian past he had discovered. After, long after, Dharampal had established that pre-British India was not backward Harvard University Research in yr 2005 (India’s Deindustrialisation in the 18th and 19th Centuries by David Clingingsmith and Jeffrey G Williamson) among others affirmed that "while India produced about 25 percent of world industrial output in 1750, this figure had fallen to only 2 percent by 1900." The Harvard University Economic Research also established that the Industrial employment in India also declined from about 30 to 8.5 per cent between 1809-13 and 1900, thus turning Indian society backward.

PS: This great warrior who established the truth - the truth that was least known - that India was not backward when the British came, but became backward only after they came, is no more. He passed away on October 26, 2006, at Sevagram at Warda.
------------------------------------
"De-Colonize the Indian Mind"

https://www.facebook.com/ivartaIC/posts/653472561350932
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venkatakailasam
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#2 Re: What is it that keeps the country down...

Post by venkatakailasam » 02 Dec 2013, 18:02

Exactly what our country is heading for....Doom!!!

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courtesy...https://www.facebook.com/TheObjectivistObserver
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venkatakailasam
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#3 Re: What is it that keeps the country down...

Post by venkatakailasam » 28 Feb 2014, 09:10

Looming military breakdown..

In a nation where instances of admission of individual responsibility are depressingly rare, Chief of the Naval Staff Admiral D.K. Joshi’s resignation following the tragic accident on INS Sindhuratna is welcome evidence that some officials, at least, still hold themselves to the highest standards.

More at
Opinion » Editorial
February 28, 2014
Updated: February 28, 2014 00:25 IST

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/editori ... epage=true
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venkatakailasam
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#4 Re: What is it that keeps the country down...

Post by venkatakailasam » 12 Apr 2014, 18:38

Will Sonia Gandhi answer ?

Sanjay Baru, ex media advisor to PM has made some explosive revelations in his new book on Manmohan Singh!

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Had he been honest, he would not have continued...
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cmlover
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#5 Re: What is it that keeps the country down...

Post by cmlover » 12 Apr 2014, 20:32

Caste -consciousness holds Indians in closed compartments!
What is worse is the religious divide!
The Muslims and Christians are brainwashed to think that they should vote only for a member of their religion
irrespective of the character of the contestent.
The progress of the country is of least importance to many except for the advantage to their closed community!
This is a "failed" democracy!
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VK RAMAN
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#6 Re: What is it that keeps the country down...

Post by VK RAMAN » 14 Apr 2014, 06:21

We want others to believe that there is Unity in Diversity. This is " Diversity in Diversity " - largest Oligarchy.
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venkatakailasam
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#7 Re: What is it that keeps the country down...

Post by venkatakailasam » 26 Apr 2014, 18:44

I have long believed that the greatest problem India faces is that it’s people don’t have a strong sense of pride. There is so much division among people on the lines of class, caste and religion that we neither have an affinity towards our fellow citizens nor for our towns, cities and states, for...

Please read the complete post...
http://www.sanskritimagazine.com/india/ ... orts-modi/
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venkatakailasam
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#8 Re: What is it that keeps the country down...

Post by venkatakailasam » 16 May 2014, 15:38

Some of the finest quotable quotes from some of our finest netas:
these statements were by people occupying lofty positions in the current - or is it the previous - Government?? .Just go through them and have a hearty laugh....

1. People will forget the coal scam like they forgot Bofors – Sushil Kumar Shinde, Home Minister.

2. People join the Police and Army to die – Bhim Singh, Rural Works Department Minister, Bihar.

3. If there is no water to drink then should I urinate in the dams to bring water? – Ajit Pawar, Deputy Chief Minister Maharashtra.

4. Inflation is high because people purchase gold.- P. Chidambaram, Finance Minister.

5. Money does not grow on trees – Manmohan Singh, Prime Minister of India.

6. Our soldiers were not killed by Pakistani army but by terrorists wearing the uniform of Pakistani army – A K Antony, Defence Minister.

7. We do not have a magic wand that we can control inflation – Manmohan Singh

8. By killing cows we do not harm the country. If we do not kill cows, India will face a huge problem – Sharad Pawar, Agriculture Minister.

9. If Sonia ji says, I will even sweep the floor – Bhakta Charan Das, Congress MP, Kalahandi, Odisha.

10. East India Company came to loot India 400 years back. I again invite you to come to India for the next 200 years. There will be a huge reward for you – P. Chidambaram, London 1999

11. Mother India is a demoness – Azam Khan, Samajwadi Party politician.

12. It is possible to have a full meal for Rs 12 in Mumbai - Raj Babbar, Spokesperson, Congress party.

13. If we start protecting cows, the world will say that we are taking India to the 15th century – Jawaharlal Nehru, 1952

14. The poor are responsible for inflation – Manmohan Singh

15. The bigger threat to India may be the growth of radicalised Hindu groups, which create religious tensions and political confrontations - Rahul Gandhi, Vice President, Congress party.

16. I will not sing Vande Mataram: — Hamid Ansari, Vice President of India.

17. Sonia ji was moved to tears when Indian Mujahideen terrorists were killed at Batla House – Salman Khurshid, Law Minister

18. When a big tree falls, the earth shakes – Rajiv Gandhi, former Prime Minister of India on the murder of 3000 Sikhs

19. Inflation is high because people are eating more - P. Chidambaram

20. There is no such thing as poverty in India. It is a state of mind – Rahul Gandhi

21. Narendra Modi is a merchant of death – Sonia Gandhi, President of Congress party

22. I can become a parliamentarian any time I want. It is a small thing for me. – Robert Vadra, son-in-law of Sonia Gandhi.

23. People from UP are beggars. They go to Punjab and Gujarat to beg. – Rahul Gandhi
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venkatakailasam
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#9 Re: What is it that keeps the country down...

Post by venkatakailasam » 16 May 2014, 15:45

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Pratyaksham Bala
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#10 Re: What is it that keeps the country down...

Post by Pratyaksham Bala » 16 May 2014, 16:04

The original:-
(Sudanese refugees walk along the border road after crossing from North Sudan carrying their possessions..)
http://darkroom.baltimoresun.com/wp-con ... 728416.jpg
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venkatakailasam
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#11 Re: What is it that keeps the country down...

Post by venkatakailasam » 16 May 2014, 19:25

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VK RAMAN
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#12 Re: What is it that keeps the country down...

Post by VK RAMAN » 16 May 2014, 19:31

Hope secular India will remain secular although the outcome is majority faith based. Modi will now get visa to visit USA if Modi wants or Modi government wants.
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cmlover
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#13 Re: What is it that keeps the country down...

Post by cmlover » 16 May 2014, 19:33

Now Bharat can claim true independance from foreign domination!
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#14 Re: What is it that keeps the country down...

Post by Nick H » 16 May 2014, 20:52

I don't think so.

I was just saying that, at least, FDI should be off the agenda, and then, just a couple of hours later my wife is reading headlines... foreign investment in defence; foreign investment in insurance... foreign....
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cmlover
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#15 Re: What is it that keeps the country down...

Post by cmlover » 16 May 2014, 23:14

I primarily meant the Italian Sonya domination...
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Nick H
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#16 Re: What is it that keeps the country down...

Post by Nick H » 17 May 2014, 00:22

Oh, sorry, right.

After all this foreign investment in stuff, I did ask Mrs Nick if it said anything about foreign investment in husbands!
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vasanthakokilam
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#17 Re: What is it that keeps the country down...

Post by vasanthakokilam » 17 May 2014, 01:39

ha..ha. Nick! That is the kind of foreign inbound investments we like!
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#18 Re: What is it that keeps the country down...

Post by Nick H » 17 May 2014, 01:57

I wouldn't say no to putting a cap on it.

(But I say that after having got in, of course :) )
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#19 Re: What is it that keeps the country down...

Post by VK RAMAN » 17 May 2014, 05:59

So long the investment by foreigners or on foreigners is in India and they do not take profits or dividends to foreign country is OK. Heads I win tails you lose proposal
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cmlover
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#20 Re: What is it that keeps the country down...

Post by cmlover » 17 May 2014, 07:07

Why should the Govt allow repatriation?
Isn't that the means of exporting the Nation's wealth to the exploiting foreign country?
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#21 Re: What is it that keeps the country down...

Post by vasanthakokilam » 17 May 2014, 08:10

CML, Hope you are serious. No country would be able have the cake and eat it too in this domain. Repatriation ( in some form or the other ) and inbound capital investment flows are highly correlated for obvious reasons. If there is no golden pot at the end of the rainbow, all such investments will stop. And to take it to the extreme, imagine what will happen if all countries do this.
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#22 Re: What is it that keeps the country down...

Post by cmlover » 17 May 2014, 09:51

Soviet Russia followed that policy for a long time!
Before Narasimhan Rao cabinet that was the policy in India too!
Foreign investors can take away only India Rupees and not converted to dollars.
By that process they can only buy commodities from India or use Indian labor.
That policy will tremendously help India's trade balance and economic growth.
I believe some such policy is followed by China..
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venkatakailasam
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#23 Re: What is it that keeps the country down...

Post by venkatakailasam » 17 May 2014, 13:51

Pseudo Secularism in India!!!!

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Last edited by venkatakailasam on 17 May 2014, 18:41, edited 1 time in total.
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#24 Re: What is it that keeps the country down...

Post by VK RAMAN » 17 May 2014, 17:40

Russian arrangement those days were like Barter arrangement.
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#25 Re: What is it that keeps the country down...

Post by vasanthakokilam » 17 May 2014, 19:49

That policy will tremendously help India's trade balance and economic growth.
I believe some such policy is followed by China
Just to be sure, we are talking about capital account convertibility.
CML, That is not true of China: http://www.shanghaidaily.com/business/C ... aily.shtml

Rupee is considered 'partially convertible' on the capital account. The big restrictions are on specific sectors and foreign individuals to invest within India.

As I understand it, the following is the current state of affairs

- For foreign corporations, and foreign institutions, there is a high degree of convertibility, with direct and portfolio investment permitted
- Subject to sector specific guidelines ( this is the big deal for FDI )
- Since 2012 direct investments in mutual funds, equity and debt instruments been permitted ( ‘qualified foreign investor’ but with a lot of SEBI red tape.
- For individuals other than NRIs, there is near-zero convertibility.

PM Modi will most probably liberalize this further, especially the sector specific restrictions.
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