AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods

[srikant1987]

I don't think there's any one-size-fits-all teaching technique for Carnatic music.

[sbala]

I don't think akellaji claims that there is a one size fits all technique.

[vasanthakokilam]

All these sundry comments aside, msakella has spent his life time evolving a reliable and predictable teaching method and he has extensively written about it and made all the material available to us for free. I do not know what else one can ask for.

It will be good if the discussion itself is about the AMS method, questions about the method and sharing of experiences of those who are using the method.

One thing that does not get emphasized enough is, his methods are a break-through in CM teaching. It does two things. It boldly declares, implicitly and explicitly, the invalidity of the old notions that only those who come from musical families or from certain communities can learn the music to the fullest extent. He has high standards and his own strongly held opinions on what an ideal student is, but that can be anybody. What matters is some basic talent in rhythm and a commitment for time and dedication.

Second, he strives hard to teach the basic tools and techniques so the student is independent in a fairly short time compared to traditional teaching methods. I always view it with suspicion when people repeat the common notion that music can only be learnt from gurus directly. Definitely, there are advantages to learning from someone directly but I think those who use the AMS method is in a for a life time of independence. They can increase their repertoire rapidly and independently and at their own pace, after acquiring the tools and techniques from a guru.

It is a case of him teaching someone to make a really tasty rasam rather than simply feeding them pre-made rasam! This way, one can make rasam for life

There is a wealth of material available, definitely one of a kind, in his free CD AMS Easy Methods 2007 which are uploaded here for free access by anyone http://www.sangeethamshare.org/chandra/ ... hods-2007/ . Even if you do not want to follow every lesson, the symbolized gamakas and their illustrative audio recordings are a great contribution to the field of carnatic music and should be useful to musicians and rasikas alike. I would like members to get familiar with them and discuss them here.

[Nick H]

Maybe it is that he has had a lifetime's practice, but I find the way that msakella deflects the sometimes bitter and personal criticism of his ways, and sometimes his person, with calm and even gentleness, to be an inspiration in itself.

[msakella]

Dear brother-members, srikant1987, sbala, vasanthakokilam & nick H, Thank you all for your ways of appreciation.

Only the Almighty has the only one-size-fits-all teaching technique for all and all others are only parts of HIM. In my case the Almighty has also blessed me with both the varieties of calmness and sharpness at a time for my advantage.

Any person is supposed to eat away idli along with chatny. But, here, while some ‘apaswaras’ are able to eat chatny only our brother-member, vasanthakokilam, is able to swallow both and have the real enjoyment.

Previously, the aspirants are used to remain in the so called Gurukulas for years to learn this art and ultimately many have ended up with only the bad habits of their Guru but not much with the art. More over, nowadays, in this speedy age, it is highly impossible to make such a long study and, at this juncture, the process must be quickened maintaining good quality and lessening the dependency upon the money-minded teacher. All these things made me work hard to find a fool-proof solution of this novel method of teaching.

The following important points are to be observed and followed in this connection in the interest of our kids and our culture.

01.Age factor: As this is an invisible art and needs a very sharp brain to grasp, understand and retain the subject and also a very strong physical body to undergo the strenous and persevarant practice tender age between 8 and 15 years of age is highly preferable to learn this art. At the same time it is high time to quicken both the processes of learning and practice even before this age which enables the aspirant make a mark in the field. As per my deep study I have found that the progress of the aspirants gradually recedes in multiplying speed beyond the age of 20 years. That’s why, as the founder President of the Teaching Staff Association (State), when I worked hard to bring out one G.O. in which the maximum age limit prescribed was 25 years for getting admission into our Govt. Music Colleges many of the house-wives of the higher-ups later tried their level best to get it scrapped and succeeded. To yield good results from the younger talent the kids should be admitted into the system of NOS - National Institute of Open Schooling through which they can concentrate much on music devoting more than 5 or 6 hrs. daily preferably in the morning hours and, later, study all the general subjects for 2 or 3 hours daily, thus giving the first preference to this fine art. Thus, from now on, the young talent must be encouraged by this kind of simultaneous general study and art study.

02.Qualitative-teaching: Teaching only the items of the syllabus comes under quantitative-teaching and giving good base right from the first day of learning music leading to the knowledge of singing Svarakalpana and Ragalapana comes under qualitative-teaching. Surprisingly enough, while all the private teachers are mostly concentrating upon quantitative-teaching teaching either number of Varnas or number of different compositions of various composers like main-pancharatnas or Kovur-pancharatnas or Lalgudi-pancharatnas or Tiruvottiyur-pancharatnas of Thyagaraja or Navagraha-kritis or Navaavarana-Kritis or Panchalingasthala-kritis of Dikshitar or 72-melaragamalika of Mahavaidyanatha Iyer etc., etc., even all the salary-paid teachers of all the Govt. Institutions of Music and the music departments of various Universities are also concentrating upon teaching only the items of the syllabus under quantitative-teaching but teaching very little of Svarakalpana and Ragalapana of the Manodharma-sangita that too just before the examinations and cleverly throwing entire responsibility upon the poor aspirants that they must be acquired by the aspirants themselves only by constant listening of the recordings or CDs of the stalwarts of yester years and by heavy regular and strenuous practice. But, while all the teachers are of the opinion that the Svarakalpana and Ragalapana must be acquired by constant listening and heavy pracitce of the aspirant himself

I have proved in this novel system of teaching that they could very easily be taught to the aspirant mostly basing upon his rhythmical instinct. Only for this purpose 20 kinds of rhythmical exercises have been formulated not only to test the level of the rhythmical instinct of the aspirant even on the first day of his music-lesson but also to improve and stabilize it. Basing upon this rhythmical abilities of the aspirant and also according to this novel system of teaching the qualitative-teaching should be made upto Varnas enabling the aspirant proceed from Kritis on his own. Unless stringent measures are taken to strictly implement this qualitative-teaching by even the above mentioined salary-paid teachers, even the students produced by these teachers remain as impotent as the students produced by the private teachers. Even though all the students studying in the music-departments of the universities are of full time they are unable to take this music as profession, at the least as teachers, due to the non-effective quantitative-teaching of the teachers. While the music environment in Tamilnadu, however, is helping these students by attending some concerts to cope up with Svarakalpana and Ragalapana up to some extent, in the absence of such environment in Andhra Pradesh the students of this State are suffering a lot by the indifferent attitude of the salary-paid teachers in making qualitative teaching.

In last December, when accidentally I happened to go to the Great Kalakshetra and met some of their students, I found only quantitative-teaching is made and wrote to the Director to take necessary steps for qualitative-teaching. But, that Director, instead of doing the needful, found fault with me for having met their students without prior permission from her or from their respective teacher. This obviously reveals that teachers are not ready to find fault with them but they do as they like.

Very recently, when I have made a represention to the Vice-Chancellor of the Telugu University, to remove me from the member-ship of the Board of Studies as I mis-fit in it in the absence of any qualitative-teaching, he was afraid to take any kind of action and kept silent without any kind of response.

03.Text books for music also: Adding fuel to the fire, pitiably enough, while text books are available for any subject in all the educational institutions, the music-teachers are always adament in providing such text books with notated compositions and pre-recorded cassettes or CDs of the same notations to the aspirants. Even if such notations are supplied for the compositions of the syllabus at some places one teacher differs with another teacher in respect of even the same composition leading to chaos among students. When the composer composed the composition in a single notation I do not understand why all the different teachers maintain different versions of notation and blatantly refuse to maintain a single notation even in the interest of their students.

04.Teacher training course in music: There is only one music-teacher-training-course attached and run by the Music Academy, Chennai since more than 50 years and even this one is also for only Vocal-teachers. This kind of training courses must be opened country wide for vocal and instruments to cater the needs of the public. In respect of music also facilities must be provided for Educatioinal Research and Training like NCERT (National Council for Educational Research and Training) and these teacher-training-institutes must be maintained by them for maintaining standards and issue relevant certificates for Teachers. Pitiably enough, even in Chennai, the famous centre for Karnataka music of our country, even though there are umpteen organisations arranging a number of concerts and different seasonal festivals, there is not even a single organisation ever arranged a seminar or symposium or conference, once in a year at the least, on methods of teaching music for the benefit of our aspirants.

05.Supervisory set-up: Pitiably enough, since last 50 years, there was not even a single academic inspection in any of the Govt. Music Colleges of Andhra Pradesh. Never there was even a cell for inspection for this purpose and taking this advantage all the teachers are teaching the students as they like and nobody has any interest at all in rectifying this perennial defect. While other foreign countries are able to introduce even B.Tech. in Music and M.Tech. in music we are unable even to rectify many of our defects and to maintain standards in the name of great tradition.

06.Prescribing syllabus for the award of different scholarships: Even for the award of Scholarships of either the lower-age-groups or higher-age-groups no syllabus has ever been prescribed giving scope for high malpractice. When once I happened to act as the Judge for one of it when I asked each and every candidate to render the Alankaras in Ata and Triputa-talas in 3rd degree of speed to test their rhythmical ability in the absence of any syllabus many of the candidates failed and all their respective music-teachers unanimously cried out against me and made a collective representation not to select me thereafter as a Judge and succeeded. Even in the preliminary audition-test of All India Radio no rhythmical test has ever been prescribed though needed. amsharma

[manjunath]

Akellaji,

You are diverting the matter. The problem is you are not taking the problems mentioned to right people. In this forum no one can solve your problems. I think better you take it to the concerned authoritites/ the government rather disgrading or disrespecting musicians and blaming them on dialy basis. First, you must try to find out where the peoblem is and why they are not listning to your suggesstions. I feel the problem lies with you. First you should learn to respect peolple and then take the problems and suggestions to them. No matter how ever genious you may be without respecting musicans and mixing with them you can not solve any thing . You are saying you have proven your methods. Your methods shoud be proven by other musicians and not by only you. From these postings again you have proven that musicans should listen to you and you will not. If you really want to serve the music you would have continued accepting others and slowly try to change them with your good acts and kindness instead of saying i am right and i am right.

[msakella]

Dear brother-member, manjunath, Very sorry. I cannot continue the dialogue with a person who is afraid to come out open and does not even try know the facts and figures but, some how, likes to make irrational and insensible arguments. amsharma

[manjunath]

Akellaji,

I am not afraid. you are afraid to tell the names of musicians openly those you feel not done any thing for music. Instead of naming the people /musicians who have not done anything for music, you are blaming all the teachers and musicians in every post of yours.

[vasanthakokilam]

manjunath: If you need to have a one on one argument with msakella please do it through other means like email.

In general, we would like members to deal with such topics in a general fashion and not name individuals if at all possible.

[sangeethamquest]

I agree. Please take any personal difference of opinions/arguments offline.
Akellaji please continue your excellent service/work.

[msakella]

Dear brother-members, vasanthakokilam & sangeethamquest, Thank you for your sincere support in real service to the cause of music. With all your support I shall certainly continue my writings and give all the details though some of them are bitter truths only in the deep interest of rendering true service to the cause of our music and also all our kids but not with any kind of self-interest which I do not need at all at this fagend of my life. amsharma

[Rasika911]

I must admit that I do not comprehend your way of teaching manodharma sangeetham. My understanding is that for swarakalpana you teach rythmic lessons and the students learn this.
For raga alapana you notate the alapana and they learn it?

[msakella]

Dear brother-member, Rasika911, A small kid always try to very keenly observe his mother, father etc., etc., whoever he comes across and try to imitate them in every possible manner. After doing this for some time he starts doing things on his own. I have made umpteen experiments upon a number of students who are handy in my institution and found that, always, while the imitation is the first step in learning things the originality starts only later in doing things. We should never expect the originality right from the beginning itself. But, while every musician is telling that, except constant listening to the alwarts of yester years and heavily practicing them later, there is no easy method at all in singing Svarakalpana and Ragalapana,

I have given them special easy rhythmical exercises in which the mathematical element of real Muktayis has unimaginably been lessened to the minimum just to perform a ‘drill’ of Mridanga Jatis along with Tala for a short period at the end of which they are asked to sing the same in terms of pre-arranged svaras. After a very regular and planned practice of more than 4 or 5 hours for 2 or 3 months the aspirants will certainly become able to sing Svarakalpana on their own.

In the traditional way of teaching, there is no gurantee that the aspirant will get the same ability of singing Svarakalpana on his own even after 5 or 6 years. In the same manner, even for Ragalapana there is a planned method to make them sing Ragalapana on their own within a very short period which is unimaginable to any traditional teacher. Here, it is very important to note that all these methods differ even in implementing them from person to person depending upon their instinctive talents.

In fact, like music, these methods of teaching also are only demonstratable but not describable. I can’t help if all these novel methods of teaching in making this music strictly time-bound and result-oriented are incomprehensible to you. Practically seeing these advantages here some people are truly striving hard to propagate them sincerely for the benefit of our kids and are also getting unimaginable and fantastic results.

You can also visit ‘http://www.esnips.com/web/AMS-Violin-De ... šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ to listen to some of the audio-clippings of some kids singing rhythmical Svarakalpana very efficiently. Among them bearing the names of the places are of the students of the respective Govt. Music Colleges recorded in 2006 and bearing the names of the students are of the S.V.College of Music & Dance, Tirupati recorded in 2007 - all trained by me only. You can also visit ‘youtube.com/msakella’ to find 6 recent Video-clippings of kids singing the intricate rhythmical exercises and Svarakalpana very efficiently. amsharma

[Rasika911]

Interesting indeed. However, I still dont understand how swara mukthaiys will enable a student to sing swarams for ragams like anandhabhairavi or sahana, it could be a disaster.

I am anticipating the youtube release of the kids singing ragam though

[msakella]

Dear brother-member, Rasika911, Not only in vocal-singing but also in violin-playing there are vey interesting techniques which enable the aspirants do their job very quickly and efficiently.
If we very carefully and properly analyse the logic behing the thing certainly we can find a way. Even though I am a very little Vocalist and Violinst than all others I am able to properly analyse the logic and found a seccessful way out than many of others only by the grace of the Almighty.
For example, we shall, now, analyse it a little. If we carefully see we find four implications in singing Svarakalpana and they are, 1.Rhythm or Laya 2.Tala or meter of this rhythm or Laya 3.Svara-syllables such as Sa, Ri, Ga, Ma etc., 4. Svara-sounds of the same Svara-syllables. Unless the aspirant gets reasonable acquaintance and control over these 4 implications he cannot get through this Svarakalpana. Even in respect of the general mathematics our elders are used to make us regularly and daily recite, even in our 3rd year or 4th year of age, the respective tables hundreds of times in the process to keep us efficient in mathematics. In the same manner, at the first instance, it is very important to note that we should train the aspirants only in the tender age and, next, this training should be made in a planned manner without taxing the kid in all the 4 implications at a time. So, accordingly, to enable the aspirant sing the Svarakalpana, training must be started right from the first day of learning music but not after finishing some 10 Varnas and 20 Kritis which is usually done by all the music-teachers. Being a Mridangist in my younger age, for this purpose and for the first time in the history, I was able to formulate ‘Jati-alankaras’ having Mridangam-syllables which are to be taught to train the aspirant even before teaching him the seven notes. By making the aspirant practice with only beats and Jatis we can tax him go along with rhythm only and avoiding other three implications. To make the lessons also easier to the aspirant the seriatim of these Jati-alankaras must be taught from 4-units of Eka, 6-units of Rupaka, 10-units of Mathya, 14-units of Dhruva in the 1st group and 10-units of Jhampa, 14-units of Ata and 7-units of Triuputa of the 2nd group, very strictly in the same order only. The aspirant should be asked to render a beat with his right-hand on his right thigh spelling out ‘ki-ta’ followed by another beat with his left-hand on his left thigh spelling out ‘ta-ka’ - all in the duration of a single second which is called ‘Matra-kaala’ ie., 4-units per second. This itself is the Eka-tala-jati-alankara also. Without teaching the aspirant the Talangas at all, he should be taught all these Jati-alankaras only with the beats of both the hands in the above 2 groups, one after the other very strictly. If the aspirant is of around 8 years of age with tested laya-instinct, he can very successfully finish all these 7 Jati-alanakars in a single day. After this, Saralee-svaras should be taught by not direct-teaching but initiating him to simultaneously play the keys of Casio-MA-150 along with the beats of the in-built-metronome (@ 1-unit per each second i.e., 60 bpm) and sing the 7 notes in Shankarabharana. In this manner without direct-teaching he should only be initiated to simultaneously play and sing the Janta-svaras, Daatu-svaras & Svara-alankaras in the same way which could very easily and efficiently be finished within a week. Then, in the same way, without direct-teaching, he should only be initiated to sumultaneously play and sing the six Gitas also on his own. While learning the gitas he should be initiated to play the notes of Casio and sing Svara followed by Akaara and Saahitya, very strictly in this order only. After Gitas, at the first instance, the important Kampitas and Gamakas should be demonstrated and later Varnas in Natakuranji, Kambhoji, Darbar, Shankarabharana, Kalyani, Begada, Todi, Saveri and Bhairavi (Ata) along with Svarajati should be taught. Each and every varna has to be demonstrated and aught with full details of all oscillations. While the Varnas are taught on one hand all the 20 SREs (Special Rhythmical exercises) must be practised on the other. Later all these rhythmical patterns in the 20th SRE should also be practised in terms of Svaras of Sampoornas, Shadavas and Oudavas etc., which, in the end, leads to sing efficient Svarakalpana on their own. This is a well proven method of teaching Svarakalpana and later Ragalapana in quickening the process of teaching.
Prasently, the students who have not been trained previously in this method, are being trained gradually bringing them into this method and it takes some more time to enable them sing Ragalapana in this method. amsharma

[manjunath]

VK/SQ

What is the use of knowledge of Akellaji , which can't be accepted by music community and can't produce a talented musician? Those he is talking/quoting negative are proven to the world that they are musicians and serving for music atleast upto certain extent. But Akellaji never produced a talented musician except talking or saying he is great. My sincere request is let him not write or comment anything about the teachers. That's ends. Because this small teachers only tried to safe gaurd this music so far and not Akellaji. He is also one among the thousands and he is not alone the carnatic music.

[Rasika911]

VK/SQ

What is the use of knowledge of Akellaji , which can't be accepted by music community and can't produce a talented musician? Those he is talking/quoting negative are proven to the world that they are musicians and serving for music atleast upto certain extent. But Akellaji never produced a talented musician except talking or saying he is great. My sincere request is let him not write or comment anything about the teachers. That's ends. Because this small teachers only tried to safe gaurd this music so far and not Akellaji. He is also one among the thousands and he is not alone the carnatic music.

My problem is the method. The best way to sing an alapana for karaharapriya is to learn several krithis in it, there is no better proven way. Other methods dont require manodharmam and the student will be simply packaging without having any idea what they are singing.
My humble view

[vasanthakokilam]

Rasika911, I agree you have a preference for the traditional method but you are jumping to conclusions about Sri. msakella's method. I am not sure if you have given it due consideration. Like a sculptor or a painter, it is not enough to just see the works of past masters. It gives you ideas and inspirations but you still need tools and techniques to bring out those ideas. That is one of the aspects that msakella strives to achieve in a predictable way. Yes, one can say you keep on painiting in random ways, pretty soon you will get the hang of it. That is one way. The other way is to teach students exactly the techniques involved in painting. I do not think that necessarily means you are curbing the creativity of the student painter.

One thing that many people do not seem to know is that manodharma aspects like kalpanaswarams are not entirely on the spot creativity. Kalpanaswarams require a lot of laya ability even more than swara ability ( contrary to what one may think intuitively ). Getting a great grounding in laya early on provides the fertilized platform on which the swara creativity can bloom later on. Strength in Laya gives you that confidence because that platform is not shaky so you do not mind standing on top of it, even jump up and down joyfully, even willy nilly, without any fear of falling.

It is like extempore public speaking. The exact words you speak on a given day may vary from the previous day but it still requires a framework which needs to be rehearsed at home.( barring some exceptional cases ). Otherwise it will be a jumble of incoherent ideas not fitting together well. But given a well rehearsed framework, you can see a public speaker improvise on the fly. Why? Because that well rehearsed framework gives that person the confidence to improvise.

It may sound like a contracdition but it is true. For unbridled improvisation, you need a well rehearsed platform/grounding.

[rajeshnat]

One thing that many people do not seem to know is that manodharma aspects like kalpanaswarams are not entirely on the spot creativity. Kalpanaswarams require a lot of laya ability even more than swara ability ( contrary to what one may think intuitively ). Getting a great grounding in laya early on provides the fertilized platform on which the swara creativity can bloom later on. Strength in Laya gives you that confidence because that platform is not shaky so you do not mind standing on top of it, even jump up and down joyfully, even willy nilly, without any fear of falling.

Vk
Very well said especially I liked those 2 lines.

[cmlover]

Yes I agree Rajesh! VK simply sparkles. That indeed permits us to appreciate what Sarmaji is trying to explain perhaps in a circuitous language I see that his novelty is in training the student on Laya before starting anything. I have not heard the traditional music teachers adopting this approach. In the light of VK's explanation Sarmaji's approach is quite logical and it should work among very young learners.

I tested my layasense using the computer generted blips and aligned myself. Then I muted the sounds and tested my rhythm after two minutes and I was way off (which proves my total lack of laya sense!). I wish I were an eight-year old to learn Sarmaji's approach
Incidentally I tested some of the present day performers using the computer blip (on their videos (no names please!) and I found their laya sense also is lacking (eg., even adi thaaLaM). I noticed that the mridangist usually adjustas himself to accommodate the vocalist I do agree that Sarmaji's basic approach should be adopted by all CM teachers so that there is standardisation among future performers.

I applaud him on his lone crusade in the interest of CM!

[girish_a]

Mr. Manjunath, I find it very offensive when people talk derisively of others' works. There is nothing wrong in disagreeing with someone - indeed, it is very essential for a healthy exchange of ideas, and for ideas and concepts to mature; but put-downs and snide remarks make for a very distasteful experience.

Isn't it so much better to tell someone that you respectfully disagree and state the reasons than to use offensive language to make a point?

I have been reading Edward de Bono's "Serious Creativity" in which he mentions that it is more important to reward creative effort than just the results of creativity. I found this observation very practical.

If someone is trying to do something different, encourage them. They may fail, but they tried sincerely. If you don't find their work satisfactory, either help them improve it or move on if you aren't interested. But don't put people down.

[msakella]

Dear brother-members, Rasika911, vasanthakokilam, rajeshnat, cmlover and girish_a, Thanks to all of you for your sincere efforts in supporting my novel methods of teaching

Vasanthakokilam’s observations "Kalpanaswarams require a lot of laya ability even more than swara ability ( contrary to what one may think intuitively ). Getting a great grounding in laya early on provides the fertilized platform on which the swara creativity can bloom later on. Strength in Laya gives you that confidence because that platform is not shaky so you do not mind standing on top of it, even jump up and down joyfully, even willy nilly, without any fear of falling"

[srikant1987]

The best way to sing an alapana for karaharapriya is to learn several krithis in it, there is no better proven way. Other methods dont require manodharmam and the student will be simply packaging without having any idea what they are singing.

Listening to several good alapanais, neravals and svarams is also a good way to learn what kharaharapriya really is, imho.

[msakella]

Dear brother-member, srikant1987, All our stalwarts are mostly used to listen to all the Ragas while their Gurus were singing either mostly in their concerts or in their residences occassionally and, in turn, they are also always used to tell the same even to their disciples that they must listen more to their singing and sing later. Most unfortunately, all the stalwarts are always used to tell that always it is healthy to listen to their Guru and learn only in person but not by notation or pre-recorded music of cassette or CD. That is why only a very few Gamakas have been symbolised even in our great Sangita Sampradaya Pradhashini of Subbarama Dikshitar. In general, in any country and in any walk of life, the elders are always used to strive hard in making things easier to their kids of future generations and I also feel the same in respect of all our stalwarts who did never care to evolve a flawless system of writing notation not only to make things easier to their kids but also for proper documentation of the available material. Unlike any other stalwart, being a very little artist, only keeping this in view, I have strived hard to bring out 60 varieties of symbolised Kampitas and Gamakas in my book, Sangita Svararaga Sudha and AMS Easy Methods-2007 CD. In this respect I have also brought out 27 facets of Kaishiki-nishada alone in my above CD. All these things I did only as a start for doing such things but not to earn money or recognition or fame or titles or awards at all. Even though few people think that I never produce even a single disciple my disciples always shine far above many of their contemporaries as I always take every care in shaping them as a replicas of mine even without expecting any monetary benefit from any one of them.

In which way we train our kids to take out the ghee out of the milk, if the music-aspirants are also trained how to take out the element of Raga from the Varna or Kriti through the detailed knowledge of symbolised Kampitas and Gamakas it becomes easier to the aspirant to make Ragalapana also efficiently on his own. I always respect the stalwarts or teachers who strive hard sincerely and honestly in shaping their students just as their replicas. amsharma

[cmlover]

You make lot of sense Sarmaji. Listening to one's guru or listening to stalwarts will make a student simply just imitative. On the otherhand your approach is analytic which will make them creative. Do give site references to your student's performances available on the net so that we can listen and assess their creativity in swarakalpana as welll as aalaapana.

[srikant1987]

I feel notating in excessive detail shall end creativity and flexibility in our musical system, and curtail its evolution.. Quite opposite of cmlover, I guess.

If children learn the skeletons and backbones of ragas from gurus and other masters, they will fill in more details according to their own aesthetics and creativity. This is true for children who have a passion for music, and wish to pour themselves out creatively in music. The other children need not learn music. Let them learn something else and do well in that field; let them excel in it.

If they learn ragas in 60-gamaka notations, they will definitely limit themselves to those 60 because that itself is a very large number. This is what children really interested in music will do. The others might even turn away seeing such a scary amount of detail, unless they are imprisoned by pushy parents.

[manjunath]

Girish

You said " I have been reading Edward de Bono's "Serious Creativity" in which he mentions that it is more important to reward creative effort than just the results of creativity. I found this observation very practical.

If someone is trying to do something different, encourage them. They may fail, but they tried sincerely. If you don't find their work satisfactory, either help them improve it or move on if you aren't interested. But don't put people down."

1. I hope this is applicable for every one and not only for Akella ji. Akellaji wrote negative about a talented kid called Vinay Rahul( violinist) performed in the presence of MSG, at Chennai . Except one or two no other so called rasikas supporting akellaji are said that is wrong on the part of Akellaji. In the open forum he tried to kill the career of a talented kid. This boy is also happens to be the disciple of Akellaji. The boy's father has not followed Akella ji's advise to stop the education and concentrate in music . Irrespective of many negative attempts made by Akellaji, the boy continued in music. Akellaji doesn't like this to happen and openly tried to kill the boy's career. Please see the postings in general discussions - Invitation of Vinayrahul .

2. He disrespected most of the teachers in almost all of his postings saying they charge money and not teach properly. This is not right. Teachers have to look after their families and they do have their own plans in training the students. If really. Akellaji has served for the music can he name at least half a dozen of his disciples who learned under him for more than five years and they are "A" graded artists today.

I just want to know who can be called a True Guru. Can some one define this under a new thread " TRUE GURU" for the benefit of other up coming musicians.

[msakella]

Dear brother-member, cmlover, At this age and with this much of experience I must do only sensible acts which abundantly benefit our society. Even though many wish to do so it is possible only by the grace of the Almighty as nothing is in our hands. In my case, since my childhood, it has many a time been proved that I am able to do many such things only by the grace of the Almighty.

For example, while a door permits even people or bigger things to move from one side to the other along with air, a window permits only small things or small birds or small creatures to move from one side to the other along with air, a ventilator permits only air from one side to the other but nothing else. But any building-contracter without having prior knowledge of the difference between the door or window or ventilator cannot utilise the correct one in the construction of a building. By all this it should always be construed that while the first level of act is imitation the originality starts only later. Even in respect of Svarakalpana and Ragalapana, while many are telling that there are no easy methods at all in getting the ability of singing Svarakalpana or Ragalapana, I have made my own experiments upon a number of students who are handy in my Music College I was working and finally found a successful way out for this perennial problem. Having different kinds of opinions people are ready to confute but not to believe them as such novel things could only be experienced but not describable in terms of words.

As you wrote this system is more analytic shaping the aspirants more and more confident, courageous and creative. One of my vocal students, Chi. J.Shriram of 16 years of age who had recently appeared for the 10th class NOS (National Institute of Open Schooling) examination and who has been learning from me since last 4 years had already given nearly 30 successful music-concerts and I shall try to put some of them either in youtube or esnips and furnish the link here. amsharma

[Rasika911]

Rasika911, I agree you have a preference for the traditional method but you are jumping to conclusions about Sri. msakella's method. I am not sure if you have given it due consideration. Like a sculptor or a painter, it is not enough to just see the works of past masters. It gives you ideas and inspirations but you still need tools and techniques to bring out those ideas. That is one of the aspects that msakella strives to achieve in a predictable way. Yes, one can say you keep on painiting in random ways, pretty soon you will get the hang of it. That is one way. The other way is to teach students exactly the techniques involved in painting. I do not think that necessarily means you are curbing the creativity of the student painter.

One thing that many people do not seem to know is that manodharma aspects like kalpanaswarams are not entirely on the spot creativity. Kalpanaswarams require a lot of laya ability even more than swara ability ( contrary to what one may think intuitively ). Getting a great grounding in laya early on provides the fertilized platform on which the swara creativity can bloom later on. Strength in Laya gives you that confidence because that platform is not shaky so you do not mind standing on top of it, even jump up and down joyfully, even willy nilly, without any fear of falling.

It is like extempore public speaking. The exact words you speak on a given day may vary from the previous day but it still requires a framework which needs to be rehearsed at home.( barring some exceptional cases ). Otherwise it will be a jumble of incoherent ideas not fitting together well. But given a well rehearsed framework, you can see a public speaker improvise on the fly. Why? Because that well rehearsed framework gives that person the confidence to improvise.

It may sound like a contracdition but it is true. For unbridled improvisation, you need a well rehearsed platform/grounding.

Then please explain why we all went to music class for several years learning all the varshais, singing them in akaram, singing them in different ragams, learnt geethams, tens of varnams and krithis! I can say that doing the above will give you the best set of paint brushes on the market

If you would like to take shortcuts when building a structure, you may get away with it for a few days, you may get away with for a few weeks, you might even get away with it for several days but one day its all gonna fall on ur head!

[Rasika911]

The best way to sing an alapana for karaharapriya is to learn several krithis in it, there is no better proven way. Other methods dont require manodharmam and the student will be simply packaging without having any idea what they are singing.

Listening to several good alapanais, neravals and svarams is also a good way to learn what kharaharapriya really is, imho.

I agree 100% this can be of great use as well. Semmangudi used to make his students listen to him sing alot and rarely used to ask them to sing along.

[Rasika911]

[quote="msakella"]Dear brother-members, Rasika911, vasanthakokilam, rajeshnat, cmlover and girish_a, Thanks to all of you for your sincere efforts in supporting my novel methods of teaching

Vasanthakokilam’s observations "Kalpanaswarams require a lot of laya ability even more than swara ability ( contrary to what one may think intuitively ). Getting a great grounding in laya early on provides the fertilized platform on which the swara creativity can bloom later on. Strength in Laya gives you that confidence because that platform is not shaky so you do not mind standing on top of it, even jump up and down joyfully, even willy nilly, without any fear of falling"

[Rasika911]

In this respect I have also brought out 27 facets of Kaishiki-nishada alone in my above CD. All these things I did only as a start for doing such things but not to earn money or recognition or fame or titles or awards at all. Even though few people think that I never produce even a single disciple my disciples always shine far above many of their contemporaries as I always take every care in shaping them as a replicas of mine even without expecting any monetary benefit from any one of them.

In which way we train our kids to take out the ghee out of the milk, if the music-aspirants are also trained how to take out the element of Raga from the Varna or Kriti through the detailed knowledge of symbolised Kampitas and Gamakas it becomes easier to the aspirant to make Ragalapana also efficiently on his own. I always respect the stalwarts or teachers who strive hard sincerely and honestly in shaping their students just as their replicas. amsharma

The facets of kaishiki nishadam is best learnt without knowing it when learning krithis. When u become too aware of certain things it can go wrong. If u tell someone not to think about bananas when taking the medicne then what are they going to think about when taking the medicine?

[Rasika911]

You make lot of sense Sarmaji. Listening to one's guru or listening to stalwarts will make a student simply just imitative. On the otherhand your approach is analytic which will make them creative. Do give site references to your student's performances available on the net so that we can listen and assess their creativity in swarakalpana as welll as aalaapana.

I want to hear them sing alapanas as well, i know swara korvais can easily be taught but alapana will be interesting because the kid needs to have a certain strength in their voice and ability to sing gamakams clearly for this.


P.S Sorry about the string of posts i dont know how to multi-quote

[vasanthakokilam]

Rasika911, I provided my response to you without realizing that your question was rhetorical and intended for some dry debate on teaching methods ( vidandavAdam ) . I am not qualified to engage in a debate on teaching methods. All I can say at this point is instead of dismissing this method off hand, give it due consideration over time, then come to a judgement.

[msakella]

Hi all. The easy methods I found out in teaching music are the proven methods for me and may not be for one and all and I shall not compell anybody either to believe in them or follow. Mainly basing upon the results only these methods are finalised that too in the interest of the poor aspirants but not to make a show before other teachers or Vidwans however great they are. More over, I am always ready to give these details to any person having a positive approach without expecting anything, in turn, from him, believe it or not, as all these things are showered upon me by the Almighty only and I sincerely believe that they are all the property of anybody being the incarnation of the Almighty Himself but nothing else. But, if any person, by any reason of his own, responds in a nagative way, I shall be compelled to stop responding accordingly. That’s all. amsharma

[Nick H]

I wonder how many musicians have made any particular study of the methods and practice of teaching?

From what I understand, partly from fellow forumites, the tradition in Carnatic music is one of simply being around and absorbing.

Even though my mridangam guruji brought up students to professional level while he was still in Chennai, I know that, once he moved to UK to take up full-time employment as a teacher, he came to completely re-assess his art and method of teaching.

msakella has, obviously, made a deep study of the arts and methods of teaching as well as the art of music.

[msakella]

Dear brother-member, nick H, You are absolutely correct. In shaping our kids just as replicas of ours we should re-assess ourselves first and proceed later. Had all our elderly musicians took each and every care in efficiently symbolising our various facets of oscillations of notes in evolving the system of notation writing for documentatioin and also evolve periodically the methods of teaching flawless and fruitful the entire music-field would have been in a different way producing a number of talented teachers who, in turn, ably serve the society efficiently. amsharma

[sr_iyer]

Rasika911,

While I have no disagreement with the fact that learning good compositions enhances one's understanding of a raga, there are certain aspects (my humble opinions) I would like to indicate below --

1. Learning compositions in a raga is not the only way to build up an ability to sing/play alapanas. As a counterpoint, consider the nagaswara vidwans over ages. Playing expansive raga alapanas for hours together pre-dates the trend of playing of compositions on that instrument (I believe before the Tiruvizhimalai brothers, playing a lot of kritis on the nagaswaram was not very prevalent; of course, there were a few nagaswara vidwans whose kriti repertoire was significant but there were many who did not learn compositions - I believe the mainstream practice previously was ragam rakti and pallavi on the instrument).

2. You say "what use is it to know a ragam without knowing any krithis in it?". Though I can understand your sentiment, I beg to disagree, given the paradigm of the raga system of Indian classical music. My opinion is a kriti/any-composition (however great and classical) is an instantiation of the raga. Understanding and exploring any raga can stand on its own and need not be only in the context of the composition which (may) follow(s). This perspective, of course, is not limited to the presentation style in concerts.

3. It is not difficult to find cases of persons rendering good alapanas without knowing many kritis in that raga. Nor is it difficult to find people who can sing kritis of various levels of complexity quite well and yet deficient or diffident in rendering alapanas. Yet, I agree with the popular sentiment that learning kritis enhances the ability to render good alapanas. My humble viewpoint (not original is as follows. The ability to sing an alapana is akin to building up the ability to speak a language. Learning, say, several poems (or, compositions/kritis in the realm of music) cannot guarantee the ability to build up the ability to speak a language (sing an alapana). Speaking a language dynamically or singing an alapana needs the (intuitive or conscious) cultivation of the skill of expressing meaningful thoughts in real-time and conformance to grammar, connecting them appropriately, presenting a micro and macro picture of the content. Once this skill is built up, a new perspective opens up, of being able to cull out great thoughts from the corpus of poems/kritis to make the spoken language or the rendered alapana richer. Absence of the aforementioned mentioned skill may handicap people, not allowing them to tap out of the corpus of ideas in the poems/musical-compositions to fit it in the right context of their speaking/alapana.

4. Lastly, from these columns, I have been a silent rasika of the logical and systematic thought-process manifesting in Sri Akella's posts - as Nick points out, it points to deep study and ripe experience. I hope we can avail of many more excellent writings of his in the field of music pedagogy, talaprastara and violin playing, among others. (In this specific instance, I am not aware of his process of teaching alapanas and would be interested in knowing more about this. In my humble experience, rendering alapanas came intuitively -- with some instrumental skills informing vocal thoughts -- and 'teaching' raga alapana to others in my limited experience has required effort and patience.)

Sorry for this long post, much of it quite basic!

[vasanthakokilam]

Good explanation sr_iyer. I was a bit troubled by Rasika911's implication that Sri. msakella's method is a short cut and it lacks strength. My impressions are of course diametrically the opposite of that, I believe his method involves building a great foundation. But others of course can have different opinions, that is perfectly fine. But what troubled me a bit is when such scholarly work, arrived over decades of analysis and experimentation, is dismissed off hand without a serious look at what it is all about. Your explanation provides the necessary context to understand his method for all of us.

I encourage rasikas and musicians to take the time to learn about sri. msakella's method at a deeper level. Plenty of material is available, he has written extensively about his method here at our forum, in addition to making his entire work available for free to everyone.

[sr_iyer]

Thanks vasanthakokilam. As you point out, Sri Akella's methods are very rigorous and rich and I have been very impressed with his writings.

[girish_a]

When I looked at the easy methods download page in Sangeethapriya, there were so many downloads that I was a little overwhelemed. Is there a guide that explains how one should go about learning the methods?

[manjunath]

Girish ji,

Purchase his books and CDs.

[msakella]

Dear brother-members, sr_iyer & vasanthakokilam, Thanks a lot for understanding and supporting the novel methods of teaching music I am bringing out.

In this method, even while learning Varnas some rhythmical exercises and some easy-muktayis in terms of Mridanga-jatis and also in terms of Svaras in different Ragas, Sampoorna, Shadava & Audava forms have to be practised for some time and then after finishing some typical vocal exercises Ragalapana has to be started in a phased manner. This entire process takes between 6 to 9 months. Presently I have one Vocalist of 16 years of age and another Violinist of 24 years of age who have rigorously been trained in this system. Now, trials are being made to upload some of the excerpts of Ragalapana of the Vocalist within a few days for reference. amsharma

[msakella]

Dear brother-member, girish a, In this mp3 CD, AMS Easy Methods-2007, along with 481 audio files there are 17 pdf files (9 of English and 8 of Telugu) in which you find all the details to learn music on his own enabling the aspirant living even in a far of place from our country progress easily and quickly but with rigorous and regular pratice. amsharma

[Rasika911]

I want to make it clear that I didn't just have a go at msakella's methods for the sake of doing so, it's just too much for me to comprehend. I think if msakella had brought together his innovations together with the traditional way of teaching our music it would have been a little easier to digest for people like me with very superficial knowledge.

I have seen msakella's page on sangeethapriya and I agree that its a great resource for any carnatic music aspirant (althogh if some of the varnams had been sung with sahithyam it would have been even better so i could have learnt them

I do not doubt that msakella has done alot for carnatic music without expecting anything back in return and I respect that however, his generalised comments about gurus was not appropriate especially when coming from someone in his position. Gurus have great respect in our music system and deserve that respect. Every guru will have his/her different styles of teaching and if msakella wants people to repsect his method he should repsect other peoples as well even though it may not be what he believes is the right way. Suggesting that gurus only teach music for money ect. can be avoided in my humble opinion.

Also I am sorry if i had offended anyone in my previous posts.

[msakella]

Dear brother-member, Rasika911, Being one among all the teachers how can I disrespect any other teacher? Never. It is also shameful to do so. I do never disrespect any honest, sincere, efficient and loyal teacher at all and also I always expect all the teachers should be revered as Gurus in true sense and save the prestige of all such other Gurus. But, the teachers who are inefficient, dishonest, insincere and disloyal may feel otherwise on my comments for which I can’t help. Of course, feeling otherwise is very easy than reforming himself to serve our community properly. My main aim is to serve our community honestly until my last breath.

I have also been one among all the teachers being inefficient but never insincere, dishonest or disloyal. In fact, now, I feel that I had successfully shaved (but not saved) all my students in the first half of my service of 16 years and, only after some introspection, I could do little justice to my post as Lecturer in the second half of my service. More over, I am not that clever to evolve all these novel methods of teaching our music on my own but the Almighty made me all that great by making me do all these things like ‘mookam karothi vaachaalam’. I have received all these things from HIM and I am giving them back to HIM who remains in all these beings around me. THAT’S ALL.

I have no enemies and even brother-member, manjunath is not my enemy not to respond. Had he gone through all the minute details of the previous incidents he would not have written anything against me in which way even Haribabu, the father of Vinay Rahul, did never curse me even in the midst of his misunderstandings. amsharma

[raje]

Hi,

I have been trying to access the files posted on the link but get an error. Is the download site down?

Thanks
Raje

[msakella]

Dear brother-member, raje, The website ‘eSnips’ is working properly and the link of the audio files is http://www.esnips.com/web/AMS-Violin-Demos amsharma

[manjunath]

Akellaji,

Sorry if I am bothered you with my write-ups . I know you are a Ideal personality. If you see my postings initially , i have given lot of respect for you and your suggestions. I have many relatives in Hyderabad , Vijayawada in A.P. I heard lot from few good musicians about you , Mr.Haribabu and his son. As per as my knowledge , from the people i heard Mr.Haribabu is your right hand and that is the reason you encouraged and trained his son in music. When I heard great about this boy in hyd/vijaywada , i really wanted to see him but couldn't. I saw him one day in a hotel near begumpet . I was with hectic schedules and could not talk with him since he was already on the stage . In the last few years I saw many kids performing in classical arts. But some have i found some extraordinary skills in this boy. When I saw his Chennai invitation in the forum ,i really felt like be there in chennai. It was too short time for me and was already in Delhi. Again I missed the boy. I only felt bad for your writing about the boy . As a Guru you should have to correct and encourage these type of children even if they do any mistakes. Because, now a days talented children are not showing interest in learning classical music /arts and Vinayrahul parents seems to be positive in encouraging him. This is where True Gurus should think and act rightly and encourage children continuing in learning our classical arts.

Recently ,One of my friend Mr.Anand without referring my name called Mr.Haribabu from states and invited Vianyrahul to perform in the states. It seems Mr.Haribabu told him that money is not the matter,My son has to balance studies and music and at this time i do not want to distrb him by sending to states. This is what exactly said by his father . I have requested My friend Anand to organise his concerts in next July/August'10. Akellaji, Vinay Rahul's father seems to be a sincere person in doing things. You should not discourage such people. At the same time your posts againist teachers also pained me lot. I know personally , the life styles of many teachers and musicians . No government or society shall help them out in their problems and at the same time senior people like you disrespect them. In my opinion these teachers are only safe guarding our music and culture . Our arts are reaching to many people through these teachers only. Musicians like you should help them out in keeping up their standards. Instead of supporting them, person from same community disrespecting is not good. It is my feeling. If you can't help them, do not trouble at least. I heard from the people that you are impatient and short tempered. My suggestion to you, if you really want to serve the society, please be patient , listen to others and coolly suggest your ideas and methods. Do not jump to conclusions and discourage musicians. Sorry if i am written any thing wrong. This is what I heard and wanted to tell you instead of writing in the forum every time. Try this and see the results.

[msakella]

Dear brother-member, manjunath, As I did never disrespect private teachers at all but salaried teachers among whom many are not loyally performing their duties in the absence of any academic supervision and also as it is not etiquette to write all unnecessary histories in these columns I would like to stop this discussion here. Of course, I am always ready to prove my innocence at any time. amsharma