AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods

To teach and learn Indian classical music
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msakella
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#501 Re: AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods

Post by msakella » 13 Jun 2015, 00:54

Dear all,

By the grace of the Almighty, starting from the date of my retirement and even after 19 years after my retirement, in my 78th year of age, I have, untiringly, been able to serve our music community very successfully and very efficiently unlike any other music teacher on the earth. I always strive hard for this noble cause only untle my last breathe. In my life nothing else is more valuable than efficiently, honestly and reliably serving our people. In doing this I never have any restrictions or reservations, I am always ready to do this and, even now, to fulfill this noble cause, I take back my previous action and come back to ably serve our people hereafter with all the co-operation and co-ordination of our brother-members of this forum. amsharma
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VK RAMAN
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#502 Re: AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods

Post by VK RAMAN » 13 Jun 2015, 04:58

So long one keeps giving to the community and Lord, one will be kept in high esteem. If one quits the community or Lord, the quitter will be the loser. msakelaji, you are great.
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msakella
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#503 Re: AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods

Post by msakella » 13 Jun 2015, 07:40

VK RAMAN Sir,

I am not great at all. The Almighty only made me great.

With the co-operation and coordination of all our brother and sister-members of our forum I shall honestly try to serve our music community efficiently. Thank you. amsharma
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msakella
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#504 Re: AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods

Post by msakella » 13 Jun 2015, 09:49

Qualitative methods in learning our music very quickly, efficiently and independently-1:

Even without eating herself all along with her kid the woman who properly initiates her kid eat plenty independently is the real mother.

Even without going along with his son to his school the person who properly initiates his son go to school independently is the real father.

Even without cooking himself/herself the person who properly initiates the learner cook the different items independently is the real teacher in cooking.

Even without driving himself/herself the person who sits on the pillion, makes the aspirant sit on the driving seat and properly explaining the various operations initiates him/her in independently driving the motor-cycle is the real teacher.

The person making the aspirant ride on the cycle and running along with him sometimes catching hold of the cycle and sometimes without catching it who properly initiates the aspirant learn cycling independently is the real teacher.

Even the parents also regularly initiate their kids in attending to their routine needs like washing their face, going to the toilet, taking their bath, wearing their dress, wearing their shoes etc. etc. in the process to make them independent in all respects.

In the same manner, even in making the aspirant learn our music, the person who without singing or playing the instrument himself/herself properly initiates the aspirant sing or play the instrument on his/her own independently is the real music-teacher.

This is my ultimate finding in my extensive research in the methods in learning our music running since last two decades after my retirement. Only by very strictly following this I could very successfully initiate the kid learn our music hardly within a year. The kid between 7 years and 12 years of age can very easily do this by very regularly practicing for two hours a day up to the learning of 5 Gitas and four hours later up to the learning of 9 select Varnas. After Varnas the aspirant has to learn other things on his/her own fully independently. The aspirant has to work hard regularly for 99% relying upon the guide/teacher for only 1%. By all this the aspirant learns each and everything on his/her own by working hard independently, very quickly and efficiently. amsharma
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sastrydevarakonda
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#505 Re: AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods

Post by sastrydevarakonda » 15 Jun 2015, 11:28

Namaste to memebers of rasika.org
Thanking you Sri AMS garu, that you have considered our request, and you are back in these columns, to post your valuable suggestion to the aspiring music learning community. We are very happy for that.

I also thank the other members of this forum for expressing their wish, which made AMS garu 's come back to post in these columns.

As far as my knowledge goes, whatever the system may be, the established music system has not produced good number of talented musicians in any of the vocal/instrumental displlines in the past decade or so, only very few that too in single digits.

If the system is perfect, music institutes should be able produce good vocalist/instrumentalists, in some number over a good period of time.

So let us get benefitted by the useful system, and we look for the day, when we would have a talented musicians around. I sincerely feel that - with the good knowledge of music - one can really relax.
Sastry.
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msakella
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#506 Re: AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods

Post by msakella » 15 Jun 2015, 12:40

Qualitative methods in learning our music very quickly, efficiently and independently-2:

In making a journey, if the vehicle is in proper condition and if the person travelling is also well acquainted with the driving of the vehicle the person can perform the journey successfully and happily. While the Shruti is Rakthi and the Laya is Shakthi, if the instinctive rhythmical abilities of the aspirant are properly stabilized by an efficient teacher (not performer) the aspirant can proceed through the process of learning confidently, quickly and efficiently. But, unless the teacher himself/herself is efficient in the rhythmical intricacies he/she cannot properly stabilize the instinctive rhythmical abilities of the aspirant.

In our life the self-confidence gives the required strength to proceed further and further in any task. Any aspirant can proceed further if he/she has much self-confidence but less knowledge in the subject. But, he/she cannot proceed further even if he/she has much knowledge in the subject but less self-confidence. Thus, the self-confidence of a person only gives courage to run the show.

Among Shruti and Laya, the Laya only, having to move in different speeds and kinds, the aspirant gets much self-confidence to move further and further. The person who cannot do them will become compelled to live without peace of mind and extends the same inability to his/her disciples also. Accordingly, the inefficient teacher produces impotents only and, pitiably enough, several ignorant aspirants become the prey of them. Hence, it is most pertinent to become aware of these facts and do the needful in safeguarding the interests of our kids. If not, all our kids become musically disabled for their life time. The person who can do these things successfully can certainly attain higher standards, live with peace of mind and extends the same ability to his/her disciples also. Thus, one must be well aware of the importance of the rhythmical aspects.

To safeguard the interests of our kids in this respect I here-under give a perfect plan and the respective parents must follow this.

To rightly assess the instinctive rhythmical abilities of either the aspirant or the teacher they must be asked to reproduce the 12 videos furnished in ‘youtube’ under the play-list, AMS-Primary-Laya-exercises. In general, the aspirant who is unable to reproduce them properly is not fit to learn music. However, the aspirant can also try the 57 videos furnished in ‘youtube’ under the play-list, AMS-Special-Laya-exercises. Even then, if he/she is unable to reproduce them properly he/she must be declared to be totally unfit to learn music. In respect of the music-teacher he/she must be asked to reproduce the 56th & 57th videos properly. In general, more than 90% of the teachers cannot do so and the teacher who cannot do so must always be avoided. For any guidance, interested persons can contact me in saving our kids. amsharma
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msakella
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#507 Re: AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods

Post by msakella » 17 Jun 2015, 04:34

Dear brother-member, sastrydevarakonda,

Now, by the grace of the Almighty, I am here again to properly guide you all in the qualitative AMS Easy methods, 2007 in learning our music very fast.

However, till now, I am unable to understand why this highly helpful thread, ‘Commit & donate….” has, illogically, been locked, even though everything was settled amicably in the end.

In respect of the methods in teaching music, if we delve deep into the history, we will be surprised to know that our ancestors very strictly maintained some secrecy in this respect. Even in respect of ‘Talaprastara’ the very important easy methods of it has never been brought out in any of the treatises. In the same manner, even in respect of the methods in learning our music, they have wantonly introduced a monotonous system of singing a number of items, making the aspirant also sing along without the much needed grammar for many prolonged years. Now, having come to know the facts after many personal failures, when I have formulated a very strict logical system with all the needed grammar even kids of the down trodden families are able to learn the intricacies of music very quickly, efficiently and easily for the first time in the history taking our music to the masses. I feel extremely happy of this healthy development of our society. amsharma
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sastrydevarakonda
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#508 Re: AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods

Post by sastrydevarakonda » 03 Jul 2015, 14:43

Namaste to members rasika.org,
I have been expressing my experiences about learning of music, and by discipline being VEENA, so the associated points.
After my learning from the popular Veena institutes, with not much of pick of the subject, and when I had come under this system of AMS easy methods, I have been doing resonably good work with music, to my satisfaction and I have been showing the progress to sri AMS garu.

I keep thinking about what Iam doing and I get cross checked with Sri AMS garu, so that Iam not deviating from the path.
AS I keep discussing with myself also, about how quickly I would progres, also keep evaluating myself about my practice part.
I understand - to become a good VEENA player, or a good Vocalist, a cumulative work should go simultaneously, which are the Laya exercises, the Varnam exercises, Ragalaapana exercises, Swara Kalpana exercises.

When a proper balance of these with proper time management go together, I think one can reach some stage within the time bound progrmme.

Though I have been doing these works and able to manage my time, but still I had a doubt that, still do I need to do some thing more to become more fluent in rendering Swara Kalpana, ( as Iam very crazy about Swara Kalpana),
the same thing I asked Sri AMS garu, then he said, that - the " A -karam of the four word phrase "AAAA AAAA AAAA AAAA" at 120 speed , in all the octaves - and one should be doing for long time, till the 4-kriya balance gets registered in the mind and get transferred to the hand to the instrument.

This is a wonderful suggestion, yes Iam doing and able to derive answers.
Thanks to Sri AMS garu for his easy methods. Sastry
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msakella
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#509 Re: AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods

Post by msakella » 01 Oct 2015, 02:25

Today I have uploaded two important videos, 1.Metronome-beat-60 bpm and 2.Metronome-beat-120 bpm to the play-list “AMS-Kids’ primary-laya-exercises’ of ‘youtube.com/user/msakella’. The audio-version of them is also available from http://www.sangeethamshare.org/chandra/ ... hods-2007/ in the AMS Easy Methods-2007 CDs.

Except the music-teachers trained in our modern system all others do not prefer to follow the Metronome or even suggest their students to follow it. Even the teachers, who are well in rhythm, also will not support this system as this system has been made ‘time-bound and result-oriented’ saving the invaluable time, energy and money of the aspirants and their parents. In all my extensive experiments on the methods of learning our music it has undoubtedly been proved umpteen times that if the efficient and honest teacher properly initiates the aspirant he/she, basing upon his/her own talents, works hard and simultaneously learns things independently as quickly and efficiently as he/she can like in learning the driving of the motor-cycle or cooking or swimming. To initiate him/her work independently in music his/her rhythmical abilities must, at the first instance, be assessed and stabilized properly just like keeping the vehicle in proper condition to perform the journey.

For this purpose I have already uploaded 12 videos under the same play-list. While there are four groups consisting three videos in each of these groups the 1st group of 3 videos are of Chaturashra-gati which must, very strictly with both the hands, at the first stance, be practiced along with 120 bpm and later with 60 bpm. The next two groups are of two kinds of Trisra-gati which should be practiced along with 60 bpm only. The last group is a mixture of Chaturashra and Trisra-gatis which has to be practiced along with 60 bpm only.

Some talented aspirants may be able to reproduce them efficiently and others may not. But, both should later practice all the 57 Videos kept under the play-list ‘AMS-Special-laya-exercises’. The aspirant who can ably reproduce all of them becomes efficient in many intricacies of rhythm to continue his/her journey independently with abundant confidence.

In this modern system of learning music the kids are initiated to learn the mostly needed writing or singing the notation basing upon selected items starting from the primary exercises up to Varnas. The kids who can work for a minimum of two hours daily up to Gitas and, later, who can continue to work for a minimum of four hours daily from Varnas can certainly make a mark in this field. If the parents of such kids need any guidance, they can make their kids vigourously and very regularly practice these 12 exercises for a couple of weeks, make the videos of them and send to my email address ‘[email protected]’ for my guidance. At my leisure, I shall go through them and inform them their suitability to learn music for which I do not charge any thing.

Many of these music-teachers and many of the syllabi prescribed in the music-institutions start with the Varnas composed in the ragas Mohana and Hamsadhvani. They all tell that it is easier to the aspirants if they do so. In such case why all these teachers are used to start the Alankaras with the complicated Dhruva-tala in which, except one or two, no other composer had ever composed even a single composition. Why don’t they start with Eka-tala to make it easy?

Yes, in the beginning, it is desirable to start the Alankaras with Eka-tala but the different complex oscillations have to be learnt logically starting from the Varnas in the Ragas Natakuranji, Kambhoji and Darbar only carrying any of the complicated notes, Sadharana-gandhara or Shuddha-madhyama or Kaishiki-nishada. But many of these teachers start the Varnas in the Ragas Mohana and Hamsadhvani, devoid of these notes, conveniently to avoid these complex oscillations. By this the further journey of the aspirants becomes horrible and they will be compelled to stop learning music at one point or other.

By all this it is desirable if the parents of the kids become aware of these facts and demand the music-teachers to make their kids sing all the Alankaras both in Chaturashra and Trisra-gatis within the first two months and both the Purvanga and Uttaranga of the Varna in the Raga Natakuranji @ 4, 6 & 8 notes within the first six months of training. In our music-institution, Swarabhangima, at Secunderabad, we do so and each and every kid of all our 60+ kids, without any exception, sings the above very efficiently. amsharma
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msakella
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#510 Re: AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods

Post by msakella » 01 Oct 2015, 07:01

While each of the above mentioned video-files are more than one minute I do not need any file more than 15 or 20 seconds to go through and finalise their suitability in learning music (in gmail the attachment should not exceed 25 mb).

In general, the Shruti-response of the kids is only tested but not the rhythmical abilities. In my extensive experiments I have found that the rhythmical-test is the must and if the kid is convenient with the rhythmical test he/she can proceed further confidently. But, if the kid is not convenient with his/her rhythms he/she cannot move even an inch confidently, leave alone proceeding further. But, to become aware of this the teacher must be efficient and also honest to assess, train and make the aspirant knowledgeable enough which is not easy nowadays. While rhythmical ablities must be stabilised within 3 months it takes even years to get the Shruti-sense settled. amsharma
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msakella
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#511 Re: AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods

Post by msakella » 07 Oct 2015, 11:09

Under the guise of the so called “GURUKULAM’ many of these performers under the guise of reputed music-teachers keep their group of students together for 4 to 5 hours or even more daily along with them. At this time they themselves sing for much of the time and make their students also sing along with them and later they tell their students to interact with other students in singing. Like this these students have to take music as full time and, thus, in 4 or 5 or even more years of time they teach their students 20 or 25 Varnas and 20 or 30 Kritis along with some general Swarakalpana (without any Muktayis) and Ragalapana. By that time they attain more than 15 or even more years of age. In this system the students is fully dependent upon the teacher or other strudentrs and spends much time with them only. This system doesn’t suit school going kids.

But, in the novel system of learning (no teaching at all) the student works independently on his/her own with the help of notated pdf files, audio-files, video-files, keyboard and metronome. In this system while the regular practice required up to Gitas is minimum 2 hrs., daily the minimum requirement is 4 hrs., from Varnas. The student has to attend the music-class weekly twice at the rate of 30 mts. each either in person or by Skype or by telephone in which the aspirant only sings for 99% to show the progress of his regular practice and the teacher, if needed, sings for not more than 1%, i.e., less than 18 seconds in any of the classes. In this system a very strong base of rhythm and note is given to the kid right from the first day of the music-lesson along with the ability to sing or write the compositions or Swarakalpana or Ragalapana in notation. We properly initiate the aspirant to deal with the intricate mathematical Jatikalpana and Swarakalapana from the beginning which gives enormous self-confidence to run further to the aspirant. Thus the kid will become fully equipped along with the knowledge of notation, rhythm and note hardly within the span of only one year to continue his/her further journey in music very ably, quickly and efficiently. amsharma
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shanks
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#512 Re: AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods

Post by shanks » 09 Oct 2015, 00:51

There is an obsession for achieving the mentioned goals in 2 years - leaves me wondering and scratching my head.

Music is not a mechanical activity of achieving a high level of skill, but a lot more in terms of creativity, interpretation, expression of emotional aspects etc etc. And for this one has to go thru the process of developing skills, building on top of the skills, adding the intangible aspects and so on - all of these require a level of maturity which can only be built over a period of time.

And of course the need for enjoying the music while delivering the music is very critical - this too requires a lot of maturity and exposure to music at various levels, self-analysis, self-evaluation etc.

Let us not forget that even the prodigies take time to bloom and mature into a well rounded musician.
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msakella
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#513 Re: AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods

Post by msakella » 09 Oct 2015, 14:50

Shanks

What you wrote is absolutely right, dear. No doubt. But, by very strictly following the logical approach without scratching your head or even others head you can very easily, quickly and efficiently achieve the required goals even within one year. This is very practically possible in this novel method of learning music.

But, than by filling these pages at this old age, I can better explain you in a personal talk by the Skype if you need. amsharma
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vasanthakokilam
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#514 Re: AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods

Post by vasanthakokilam » 11 Oct 2015, 11:26

shanks, those are good points especially if you intended to raise them as questions that you want to understand. Remember, Akellaji is a professional musician and he knows the aspects you are talking about. So a reasonable basis to approach what you are rightfully wondering about is to grant Akellaji the benefit of the doubt on those matters and peel the layers so as to clearly get what Akellaji promises to develop in students in those one or two years using his method.

From what I understand, it can be summarized as 'Confidence and independence' . The rest can come by itself over time. One can not overstate how potent a combination those two are.

Akella's method starts with rhythm and not melody. Rhythm gives a student the necessary confidence. Techniques to achieve independence in melody follow that.

Given the universality of rhythm and it is more the same than different across musical genres, his rhythm oriented initial lessons prepare the student to be a musician in general and not just a Carnatic musician.
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msakella
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#515 Re: AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods

Post by msakella » 11 Oct 2015, 16:52

Yes. What our brother-member, vasanthakokilam, wrote is exactly true.

Even though, at this fag end of my life, I have always been striving hard to help and save our poor and ignorant kids from all the illogicalities while learning music and, accordingly, been writing all my posts truthfully many are there readily either to misunderstand or misrepresent them as they like. That is why, hereafter, I wanted to possibly abstain from writing in these columns. But, now, as our brother-member, vasanthakokilam, truthfully tried to make it clear just I want to confirm his ‘Confidence & independence’ which are most crucial in my novel system of learning music.

In this purely logical system the aspirant’s time, energy and money are saved to the maximum extent. Within even the first two months the aspirant’s fate is dicided and if his/her rhythmical abilities are satisfactory unbelievably and hardly within the span of only one year he/she can sing intricate mathematical Swarakalpana along with brief Ragalapana. If not, in this system, he/she looses just two months only but not many years of time or energy or money like in the present traditional system. amsharma
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vasanthakokilam
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#516 Re: AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods

Post by vasanthakokilam » 12 Oct 2015, 02:07

I know there are a of few who are not fans of Akellaji due to his harsh indictment of the present day teaching system and the teachers and his style of writing, but set those aside for now, how can you be upset about all that if you see what he is getting at in the last paragraph above.
( And let this post be not to start a discussion about him... this post is not about that... please read on...)

People are coming to similar conclusions in many other areas where the degree of uncertainty is very high.Whether it is exploring ideas to solve a perceived need, resolving personal and family conflicts, starting and running an enterprise etc. For example, in the venture capital world of the silicon valley it is called 'Fail Fast'. That is what Akellaji calls 'You just lost 2 months rather than many years'. Akellaji has independently come to the same realization many years before the rest of the people in other areas. This is one of the principles of the 'Lean Method' that is a big buzzword these days.

(the following may sound a bit obtuse but stay with me if you can.. I find this to be quite profound in practice)

The scientific method is useful in reducing the degree of uncertainty. How do you decide on the product/process/method/technique/tactic that you want to employ to solve an issue at hand. The uncertainty of the usefulness or applicability of your technique is at the maximum. Instead of 100% relying on intuition (what feels right to you) or doing things similar to what has been done in the past, the course of action that has been proven useful is to conduct time-bound experiments, collect data and go with the route that has a higher chance of succeeding. You afford yourself what is called an 'optionality'. Just like in financial market options, "you have the right but not an obligation" to pursue a course of action. In that bargain, you are willing to lose the whole thing( effort/money). In non finance context, that is the deal you strike with the rest of the uncertain world.

Since you can lose the whole thing and the chances of that are high, you want to pursue a few different options, invest as minimum as possible in the experiments to know if it is going to be useful or not, make decisions based on the collected data as much as possible and fold the options that are not going to result in anything.

The key aspects of Optionality are the time-boundedness and result orientation. ( just like finance market options )

It is so striking that Akellaji stresses exactly those two aspects in his method.

I am not sure how well a case I have made here but think about Akellaji's method like this. If you have kids who you are not sure about their musical talents and their willingness to work hard at honing those skills, employ Akellaji's method to figure out your options for the kid in the cheapest manner possible (time/energy/money etc.). If there is no uncertainty in that aspect, say, a kid is like Sri. Ravi Kiran and many others a tier or two lower, may be this technique, while still useful, is not needed. But that is not the vast majority of cases. The kid can 'fail fast', it is a highly positive thing however counter intuitive it may seem at first. Also, if you 'fail fast' in this technique, it does not mean the kid's musical future is finished, you can try other methods but at least you have got some data to go with.

(One parenthetical note: Scientific methods are useful to reduce uncertainty and not to increase certainty. A lot of people mistakenly believe in the latter and they will have considerable trouble in relating to the efficacy of Akellaji's technique. Change your orientation to the former, then things will start to make more sense )
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Nick H
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#517 Re: AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods

Post by Nick H » 12 Oct 2015, 14:43

vasanthakokilam wrote:I know there are a of few who are not fans of Akellaji due to his harsh indictment of the present day teaching system and the teachers and his style of writing, but set those aside for now, how can you be upset about all that if you see what he is getting at in the last paragraph above.
( And let this post be not to start a discussion about him... this post is not about that... please read on...)
But some of us do not confuse or conflate that with the methods and teachings themselves. Simply, having respect for all that, we have advised him that he is his own worst enemy. It is not our fault that he just replies with the same words, literally, repeating himself over and over and digging his hole deeper and deeper and deeper. We begged him to stop, but it will not happen, and because of that, the value of what he has to offer is put in the shadow.

The rest of your argument is nothing new, it is just dressed in the "new" language of American management. How those people love to sell us the same things multiple times just by changing the name!

What you say is true: better to waste a few months than a few years, but then you fall into the trap of assuming that, on one path it will take but a few months, whilst on the other, it must take many years. This is not true at all. I have no doubt that the "traditional" teachers must encounter many students who never come back for a second lesson. Although I just might be surprised by trying (I did learn to tune a mridangam!) I don't think my poor vocal pitch awareness/control would survive more than one lesson, even with the most patient of teachers. I would fail very fast indeed. My wife is an example: she loves the flute, and wanted to learn to play a little, but had no idea just how difficult it is for a novice to get any sort of flute-like sound at all. She failed very fast. No time wasted. All your management epithets satisfied without either side having heard of them. The teacher showed her how to proceed, should she want to, and left it at that. Just as I never learnt how to sing accurately in tune (in any musical system), she has not learnt to get a note by blowing across a hole.

On the other hand, I sat in mridangam class for ten years. I made some headway as an amateur player accompanying young children, but never progressed beyond what I still call "first-year student." Well, I didn't go to class to climb up to the stage, and was amazed that I ever did, at any level. I went to class to get some clue about what was happening on the stage. My guru neither entrapped me, nor sent me away because of lack of progress. I forged friendships with him, and with other musicians, not to mention the music itself, which continue now, more than twenty years later. There is more than one reason to go to music class!

I could have made more of the opportunities. That is 100% in the hands of the student, whoever their teacher is, and whatever "system" they may follow.
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kvchellappa
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#518 Re: AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods

Post by kvchellappa » 12 Oct 2015, 17:19

Nick, you said it.
Learning, not teaching is the way.
As a student (school, college subjects, esp. Maths), I tried to teach to learn. I benefited, not necessarily the ones who suffered me.
I tried to learn CM and found that two things were beyond me, sruthi and layam. I settled for marriage and to carry on without the two.
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vasanthakokilam
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#519 Re: AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods

Post by vasanthakokilam » 13 Oct 2015, 00:48

Nick, I will stay clear of defending American Management gurus, we probably are more in sync on the skepticism. In this particular matter, these things originated more in Toyota/Japan. The concept of Optionality is a derivative from that. I do not know if that way of dealing with business is as usual/customary as you describe it.

Back to Akellaji's method, I would like to claim that I am not falling into the trap you mention. I agree there are cases like the ones you mention where one can fail fast. But the current system is by design not set up with that purpose in mind. To fail fast, you need to have a time-bounded metrics. I just observed that Akellaji's method is setup to get at both things, time bounded and result oriented (metrics). And the kid has to put in a lot of effort right from the start. So one is not just testing the inherent musical talent but the aptitude to put in the necessary hard work.

Anyway, I thought the concept of Optionality is so similar to what Akella wrote 'you lost only two months'/Time bounded ness/result oriented.

Just as in the concept of 'fail fast' in other areas, a common objection to such methods is 'If you treat this as an experiment on the kid, that can not possibly be a representative of the complete musical education or the aptitude of the student'. This is along the lines Shanks wondered about, That is what prompted me to write all this. Such objections are typically based on the understanding that any measurement you make in an experiment is to gain certainty. That is not what a scientific method is about. As I wrote above, it is to reduce uncertainty. It may sound like a technicality but it is not. In fact, that is the very point of any scientific measurement. ( it is called null hypothesis ).

Applying it to this case, you start with the null hypothesis that the 'kid under test' is NOT musically talented or does NOT have the aptitude to put in the required work. Rejecting or disproving the null hypothesis—and thus concluding that there are grounds for believing that the kid can be good at this (i.e. that this method has a measurable effect on the kid ) is very much along the same principles on which modern practice of science is based.

I can see that intuitively that is what parents and teachers think when they send their kids for music lessons. "Let us see if he/she has the aptitude." But what is lacking is a rigorous set of metrics in a time bounded manner to figure that out. Akellaji's method is designed from ground up with that principle in mind.
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Nick H
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#520 Re: AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods

Post by Nick H » 13 Oct 2015, 01:43

That does make sense to me.

Somewhat tangential, but I once reflected that formal education systems such as most of us experienced at school are not actually geared to success, but are geared to failure, which is the point at which people leave the system by falling out of it.

Your explanation of certainty/uncertainty and the null hypothesis is very clear. It helps to illuminate some of the stuff that I have encountered about testing in the hifi world.
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vvssaraswathi
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#521 Re: AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods

Post by vvssaraswathi » 13 Oct 2015, 10:54

Dear Sri Vasantakokilam ji

Nicely articulated. As you rightly said, time bound and result oriented is the main key in this system. As Sri Akellaji keep saying that there is no new system he has introduced, but only removed illogicality - This exactly mean what you said by 'Lean(Identifying and removing waste - In a simpler terminology)". Presently, we all see that the Lean initiative is being driven across all the organizations across the world - Be it industrial sector, distribution or IT sector, because of heavy competition / lack of time. There is a need for Lean introduction in music sector too, for benefit of children and parents.

In olden days, for many children, music is mostly taken as full time profession and people had time and energy and support to invest and produce results. And of course because of culture, atmosphere and many more factors, we have seen many successful artists, over the years(Barring people who come from music environment and become professionals at young age)

In the current generation, because of heavy competition and lack of time, children are running behind everything. Practically speaking, we, parents, end up in working in many cases, because of multiple parameters. With high focus on studies and competition, investing more and more years to see if a kid can choose music as a profession is a big challenge. As Sri VK sir told, Sri Akellaji's system helps us to decide what path to choose, within 2 years of span (In fact, within first 2 months). And, of course, this depends on the kids capability discipline etc., With in 1-2 years. Also, this does not expect any music back ground , as we see swaraoes picking up fast in this sytem.

Definitely with his novel methods, we see that there is less dependence, more confidence, time bound and result oriented - Bottom line - there is a high Return On Investment and optimized solution.

regards
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msakella
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#522 Re: AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods

Post by msakella » 16 Oct 2015, 18:30

As usual, many of the readers will not appreciate me if I write that always the teachers are the sole cause for all the inefficiencies of the aspirants. While some teachers are unaware of their own inefficiencies some teachers are aware but ignorant while properly teaching the aspirants in the absence of any knowledgeable supervision. Ultimately the sufferers are the poor and ignorant aspirants. Having worked for most of my life in a music-institution where the music is taught right from the basic level I, being unaware of my own defects, have very sincerely followed the already established harmful methods in teaching by which many aspirants have become impotents in music or musically handicapped for no fault of them.

In our country this has been happening since many centuries in the absence of any standardized logical methods in teaching or learning and nobody comes out open even to discuss about such things. Only 5 years after my retirement, having become fully aware of my own defects and feeling extremely unhappy, put a full stop to all my activities either as a teacher or a performer, introspected my self for many days and nights and, only by the grace of the Almighty, removing all the suicidal illogicalities and irrationalities, found a very-strict-logical method in learning music for the first time in the history where, unbelievably to the present music-teachers, the teacher’s role is limited to 1% and the role of the aspirant increases to 99% like in the process of learning the driving of the motor-cycle or swimming or cooking. All my experiments have become fruitful and more than 90% of this system has now been finalized only in January, 2015. Thus, now, my main aim is to possibly reduce the duration of the process of learning music by properly initiating the kid work hard independently mostly relying upon the keyboard, metronome, pdf., audio and video-files saving his/her invaluable time, energy and money to the maximum. By this the kid learns the mostly needed grammar of our music hardly within only one year and becomes equipped to ably continue his/her journey in music further and further in future. By any chance if he/she feels to change his field he/she can as well do it immediately without wasting many years of toil like in the old system.

In this modern process of learning music, at first, I have trained 11 years old Chi. Shreenidhi, grand-daughter of our brother-member, Shri S.Nageshwaran. Having her mother already learnt music she, thus, had some family-musical-background and musical environment too. She had attended the music-classes twice in a week on Skype and within one year gave a successful mini-concert at the Rasikas meet 2010 in Chennai. Many of our brother and sister-members have attended this meet and enjoyed the concert furnished hereunder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6PzLGv8xFw

Since then these methods are successfully followed in our music-institution, Swarabhangima, at Secunderabad and in other 5 local branches of it and I am fully satisfied for having truly saved few hundreds of school-going-kids in the immediate vicinity, at the least, from the criminal waste of time, energy and money. Even though I very sincerely feel that the criteria in learning music is not to sing in Chennai in the season but to ably learn the required grammar very quickly and efficiently within one year to continue their journey in music on their own. Many of them are able to sing mini-concerts and even full-fledged-concerts.

Later, recently, I have again successfully initiated 14 years old Chi. Padmaja, my great-grand-daughter studying 9th class at Bangalore of whom the progress of her learning is furnished hereunder.

She doesn’t have any family music-background or music environment at her home. However, she started learning music from 2014-02-26 when she was studying 9th class. For the first two months she was attending the classes for less than 15 minutes weekly twice on Skype to show the progress of the rhythmical exercises. Later, she was attending the classes by land-telephone only in the same manner. IN ANY OF THE CLASSES I DID NEVER SING FOR MORE THAN ONE MINUTE. As per the system, irrespective of any holiday, the aspirant who very regularly practices for a minimum of 2 hours daily up to Gitas and later from Varnas @ 4 hours, can certainly become able to learn 5 or 6 Kritis on his/her own and sing even intricate mathematical Swarakalpana along with brief Ragalapana within the span of only one year. But, as a school-going kid and being in the 10 class in this year 2015 as she could find time only for 2 ½ hours daily for her regular practice she has to spend 6 more months to become able to sing brief Ragalapana. Her chronological progress is furnished hereunder.

2014-05-15: (Post No.403)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9jRQaUvtH0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATK_Z3OSjvk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnmpFwKJ484

2014-08-21: (Post No.420)
https://soundcloud.com/msakella-1/natak ... am-akaaram
https://soundcloud.com/msakella-1/natak ... am-akaaram
https://soundcloud.com/msakella-1/kambh ... am-akaaram
https://soundcloud.com/msakella-1/kambh ... am-akaaram
https://soundcloud.com/msakella-1/darba ... am-akaaram
https://soundcloud.com/msakella-1/darba ... am-akaaram

2014-11-28: (Post No.439)
https://soundcloud.com/msakella-1/20141 ... aram-4-6-8
https://soundcloud.com/msakella-1/20141 ... aram-4-6-8
https://soundcloud.com/msakella-1/20141 ... aram-4-6-8
https://soundcloud.com/msakella-1/20141 ... aram-4-6-8

2015-01-04: (Post No.445)
https://soundcloud.com/saraswathi-vvs/2 ... aram-4-6-8
https://soundcloud.com/saraswathi-vvs/2 ... aram-4-6-8
https://soundcloud.com/saraswathi-vvs/2 ... aram-4-6-8
https://soundcloud.com/saraswathi-vvs/2 ... aram-4-6-8
https://soundcloud.com/saraswathi-vvs/2 ... handachapu
https://soundcloud.com/saraswathi-vvs/2 ... ishrachapu

2015-01-06: (Post No.446)
https://soundcloud.com/saraswathi-vvs/2 ... aram-4-6-8
https://soundcloud.com/saraswathi-vvs/2 ... aram-4-6-8
https://soundcloud.com/saraswathi-vvs/2 ... aram-4-6-8
https://soundcloud.com/saraswathi-vvs/2 ... aram-4-6-8
https://soundcloud.com/saraswathi-vvs/2 ... paka-kriti

2015-01-18: (Post No.453)
https://soundcloud.com/saraswathi-vvs/2 ... iti-samaja

2015-01-25: (post No.456)
https://soundcloud.com/saraswathi-vvs/2 ... mmaravamma

2015-02-08: (Post No.458)
https://soundcloud.com/saraswathi-vvs/2 ... sriranjani

2015-08-30: Demonstrated at IITM-Chennai:
https://soundcloud.com/msakella-1/iitm- ... a-20150830

To make the aspirants or their parents aware of these facts in saving the kids from the criminal waste of time, energy and money, I have been writing several posts in these columns bringing out all these illogicalities and irrationalities committed by the music-teachers. Funnily, while no music-teacher is coming out open either to accept his/her harmful acts or to rectify themselves all others are becoming ready to interfere finding fault with me only instead of finding fault with the teachers and finding ways to avoid them in saving the poor kids. This is something weird of them.

I shall extremely be happy if any person tries to look into these facts and possibly tries to remove the illogicalities or irrationalities of the methods in teaching in sincerely and honestly helping the kids or if any music-teacher trains his/her students in the above manner making the process of learning the grammar very quick and efficient. amsharma
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SrinathK
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#523 Re: AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods

Post by SrinathK » 17 Oct 2015, 09:40

The goal is to get the student to a point where one is strong enough to keep learning with self interest -- I mean think about it, when your laya skills are enough to fuddle even percussion artistes (and I have been told about one of his students who can do this who is winning competitions everywhere), you have the ability to write your own notations and can decipher even complicated gamakas (only when I did this I realized there was a way to capture the movements after which my gamaka awareness increased), your swarasthana shuddham is improved with the help of instruments and you are capable of grasping neraval and kalpanaswaras (by the way are there any methods for neraval ?), and have the self sustaining interest and confidence necessary for pursuing music on your own, pretty much all that is left for the teacher is to simply suggest new directions for the student to explore and correct any mistakes and share their own knowledge and experience.

The difference between the good student and the great one is that the great student has a lot of self initiative and belief and discovers many things on their own -- that is in truth the real key to unlocking the creative potential of the aspirant. A teacher is there to share their knowledge and experience and their spirit with the student (and also after a point there is a very personal relationship too that you can't miss for anything else), but they should inbibe the student with self interest and initiative if they want to unlock their full capability.

These days you have plenty and plenty of recordings and no dearth of lyrics resources -- compositions, composers, pallavis, ragas, alapanas, neraval, tanam, kalpanaswaras, you name it, you got it. No one told me how and where to find them (until recently, and that includes the people who have contributed a lot to these resources as well), but when you seek, you shall find them. And that's how I landed here. :lol: So again it's a lot easier to learn.

As an example, you don't need to keep practicing on each every tala to strengthen your tala rendering skill -- all you need to know are the tala-angas and how to render them. Then if you are familiar with the structure of the tala, you can render any tala with ease -- it is really only a question of length and familiarity. Laya skill is something that only keeps getting better with time, technique can deteriorate, but not gnyanam.

For more advanced learners though, we also need some lessons for brighas, tanam, neraval, grasping and memorization techniques, and in the aspect of pallavis TRS (and LGJ) are among those who've really made it look so easy. Speaking of memorization, in this aspect I really have to credit the old-school techniques -- as a kid I once attend some classes at the Ramakrishna Mission where they taught some veda mantras and it is amazing that I can still remember it exactly to this day even 15 years later. The aids and tools and recordings will help you with the initial grasp of things, but for long term memory, you have to drop the aids and force the brain to work. This fact was pointed out by LGJ in an interview, where he said that youngsters have the modern tools to grasp everything really quickly, but they also tend to get rusty and forget them faster as they have started depending on them like a crutch rather than a tool to strengthen.

One more essential skill is to find out the tala, the kalai and the eduppu point of any particular recording where you have not seen the composition being rendered live. This resource has been missing till now as there is no data bank that properly mentions these details -- but I'm working on that. Again without self initiative and going beyond what is just taught in the class, you never realize that such issues exist nor will you be able to find a way to solve them.

Other things where one can explore at a more advanced stage is how to minimize unwanted strain and tension on the body (of particular concern to instrumentalists). Yet another skill lies in efficient listening techniques -- there is a very big difference between listening casually just to enjoy the music and to listen as a student with the intent to learn and master.

There is also a need to be familiar with the theoretical aspects of the music, it's history and knowledge of various styles -- even in manodharma there are many different approaches to alapana, kalpanaswaras, neravals, tanams, and all... this can all come later over time. The resources are there and there are people to help with that.

You might at some stage (not as kids, but later as adults) want to add fitness into the list too -- strength, endurance, flexibility...

You will be surprised to know this, but in many of the world's greatest musicians, most of their practice is actually mental -- beyond a certain stage they only work on maintaining their basics and form and working out what is difficult for them and before they play a phrase they have already worked out how to play it -- it is only then a matter of eliminating the mind-body barrier.

The emotional connection takes it's own time to grow -- that cannot be really forced on the student in my opinion. If you want to really love the lyrics, I suggest learning some languages. I had attended a Samskrita Shibhiram course and I was shocked as to how easy the basics of speaking a language actually were -- yes there are very efficient techniques for encoding the intuitive grasp of a language too, things that some infants know more readily than adults
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msakella
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#524 Re: AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods

Post by msakella » 17 Oct 2015, 15:21

SrinathK

What you wrote:

‘All that is left for the teacher is to simply suggest new directions for the student to explore and correct any mistakes and share their own knowledge and experience.’

‘The difference between the good student and the great one is that the great student has a lot of self initiative and belief and discovers many things on his/her own -- that is in truth the real key to unlocking the creative potential of the aspirant.’

‘These days you have plenty and plenty of recordings and no dearth of lyrics resources – it's a lot easier to learn on your own.’

‘You don't need to keep practicing on each every tala to strengthen your tala rendering skill -- you can render any tala with ease if you are properly equipped with the acquaintance with the different Gatis. That’s all.’

‘The aids and tools and recordings will help you with the initial grasp of things, but for long term memory, you must to train your brain to memorise from the beginning.’

‘One more essential skill is to find out the tala, the kalai and the eduppu point of any particular recording --- by constant exposure to the intricate euduppus and respective mathematical calculations right from the beginning the aspirant can very easily manage with even such complicated things.’
In our system our kids do these things right from singing Gitas. You can refer http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic ... 16#p289716 and find the video 20150908-01-https://youtu.be/OqFlO9s7BUQ - Varaveena with jati endings and swara endings in tala cycle by sania, jayasree, prashanthi and rechana.

‘Minimize unwanted strain and tension on the body.’ This is possible by very strictly following this modern logical method in learning.

‘In many of the world's greatest musicians, most of their practice is actually mental.’ At a later stage it leads to deft handling.

‘The emotional connection takes it's own time to grow -- that cannot be really forced on the student in my opinion.’

--- is absolutely true.

However, my eye caught only one point to answer about neraval.
Mostly rhythm dominates in our music. The person, who can ably manage with the odd and even Gatis very strictly along with Metronome on one side and with different kinds of oscillations of notes on the other, can very well manage with neraval efficiently. For this any person must very regularly practice Akaarasaadhana in different speeds of the Metronome. Only after getting reasonable control over rhythm and notes one can insert the lyrical syllables wherever necessary. One should not practice neraval along with the lyrical syllable right from the beginning. amsharma
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msakella
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#525 Re: AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods

Post by msakella » 19 Oct 2015, 19:58

In fact, I was also very miserably swayed by the wrong suggestions of fellow musicians that it is suicidal just even to touch a keyboard in respect of our Carnatic Music. Only after extensive experiments I could come to the conclusion that the keyboard having the facilities of the Transpose to choose the precise Shruti and the Metronome for precise rhythm is 100 times more reliable, being a machine, than a human who very rarely has this kind of precision of rhythm or note. Adding fuel to the fire, the state of perennial dependence of the aspirant upon his/her teacher is the main hurdle for his/her quick development. But, very sadly, each and every music-teacher thinks himself/herself a great teacher and doesn’t like to follow any other’s method or even to discuss such things for the benefit of the poor aspirants. Till now I did never find even a single person striving hard to save the invaluable time, energy and money of the poor aspirant.

Even in my case, as the violin-wizard, MSG himself told me ‘never take out the Violin without metronome’ in person in the beginning of my student life in Violin, I was very fortunate not to be swayed by this kind of harmful suggestions of all other musicians. Even then, when I was very sincerely following his style of ‘single-string-gamaka’ very efficiently, each and every Violinist whom I came across discouraged me in each and every manner with dire consequences as none of them could play them even of 5%. But, when I have retorted them that I have decided to follow his method only and if I succeed I shall play Violin with my fingers or, if not, I shall type with the same fingers and lead the life of a typist as I was well acquainted with type-writing, everybody kept quiet. But, only by his blessings, I could succeed even up to some extent and became able to sit beside him on the dais and successfully followed him in playing Todi-ata-varna on a single string on 09-04-1984 in his Solo-violin-Concert at Hyderabad.

I very sincerely feel that there is nothing wrong in following the tradition as the base of our traditions were laid long ago by our great people only. But, in general, as inefficients are always more to dominate in any field and always try to dilute any material so as to suit to their own inefficiencies, many of our great traditions have thus been diluted. Thus, our music also has been diluted with many kinds of illogicalities and irrationalities.

Mainly, as many of our musicians, having learnt under a single Guru under the so called Gurukula-system for many years like a frog in a well, have transformed into hardcore conservatives and egoists and they have included many of these illogicalities and irrationalities in this system of teaching horribly helping only to elongate the process of learning for many years without holding any responsibility of inculcating the knowledge of writing or singing the notation or singing Swarakalpana or Ragalapana.

In the same manner, even in many of the music-institutions and in many of the music-departments of many Universities, in the absence of any academic supervision, all the teachers are very sincerely following the old suicidal method by teaching 30 or 40 or 50 or 60 compositions only but not even 1/3 of them with Swarakalpana and Ragalapana. Most of their products cannot sing even Varnas both in Chaturashra and Trisra-gatis even though these things are later included in the syllabus. Unless proper care is taken by the knowledgeable persons the ability of these breeding points of impotents rapidly increase day by day as a menace to the society.

At this juncture, just by removing the existing illogicalities and irrationalities, making it very strictly logical and properly utilizing the modern gadgets the modern system of learning music has been formulated for the first time in the history making the process very strictly ‘time-bound and result-oriented’ in which the aspirnant is assured of becoming able to write in notation or sing the notation or to sing Swarakalpana or Ragalapana hardly within the span of only one year. By following this modern system of learning the masses even from the underprivileged sections are able to learn music very quickly and efficiently as furnished in http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic ... 16#p289716. amsharma
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