Increasing swara knowledge for rasikas and dabblers

To teach and learn Indian classical music
arunk
Posts: 3424
Joined: 07 Feb 2010, 21:41

Post by arunk »

suji - yes of course so that people who can concur/differ/learn :)

vk - base sruthi ok. In the first sample, there is tampura, also the alapana should make it obvious it how it ends (if you know what I mean). But yes - I think it would be best to make that obvious so that people who need it dont get completely off track.

I will start a new thread asap.

Arun

ninjathegreat
Posts: 301
Joined: 25 Oct 2005, 22:07

Post by ninjathegreat »

Sounds great. Is there a thread for Q's and one for A's already? Ah... let me check :)

raguanu
Posts: 94
Joined: 12 Oct 2008, 11:48

Re: Increasing swara knowledge for rasikas and dabblers

Post by raguanu »

A Carnatic music student slowly gains swara gyānam mostly indirectly during various stages of learning. Only basic varisai exercises like Sarali, Janta and Alankarams focus directly on swarasthanas. In later lessons, due to the increased complexity, student's attention is directed towards other aspects in addition to swarasthana. As the student fumbles through varnams, kritis and swara kalpana, he/she slowly begins to internalize swarasthanams. There still might be some gaps, imperfections and deficiencies in their swara gyanam.

For rasikas who had little or no formal music training, though identifying ragas by comparing known songs etc is quite fruitful, swara knowledge is quite elusive.

Sādhakam Carnatic Ear Trainer (Android app) tries to bridge this gap by providing exercises specifically designed to improve one's swara gyanam. These are interactive exercises that students and rasikas can do on their own with the app without anybody's help.

Music teachers insist that one should practice varisai exercises (sarali, janta, alankarams) in various ragams so as to exercise various swarasthanams. Even then, varisais don't drill swarasthanas sufficiently due to their inherent limitations:
  • The patterns are predictable: Our brain can trick us by going into a mimicking mode rather than thoroughly understanding and singing each swaram carefully.

    Try this: Ask a student to sing a sarali varisai. Stop them in the middle and ask them to sing a specific swaram. For example, when singing something like pa-dha-ni-sa, stop them and ask them to sing ga or ri. Chances are they might fumble a bit before reaching correct ga or ri, though they were able to sing the same swaram during its turn in the sequence of the exercise.
  • Only one variety of a swaram is worked out each time: If you are singing alankaram in mayamalavagowla, you are only concerned about Suddha Rishabam and not Chatusruti/Shatsruti rishabams. Most students practice sarali etc only in mayamalavagowla and move on without even touching other swarasthanams. If you also practice the same exercises in Kalyani too, you bring some variety to Ri, Ma and Dha. Good. But how about the shift from one swarasthana to a different one for the same swaram?
Try this:
  • Sing one line of your favourite sarali exercise in mayamalavagowla.
  • Immediately, sing the same line in kalyani.
Were you able to switch to kalyani's swarasthanams from mayamalavagowla without difficulty?

Many students, not just beginner students, are not comfortable with this switch. They will have difficulty in changing from the mood of mayamalavagowla. Some times, they try to recollect or hum a line from a kalyani kriti or geetham, thus transforming themselves to the mood of kalyani, then they'll be able to sing anything in kalyani. This switch from one ragam to another, fundamentally switching from one set of variants of swarams to other, is not worked out sufficiently.

Varisai exercises play an important role in freeing up the vocal range and setting foundations for fingering technique in instrumentalists. Imparting swarasthana knowledge is only one of their design aspects among many. Depending solely on varisai exercises for mastering swarasthanas is an ineffective approach due to these limitations.

What would be more effective is a practice system designed with exercises solely geared towards improving swara gyanam. It is also important that the exercises should not succumb to the same limitations discussed. This means the exercises should have (a) certain level of unpredictability, (b) variations of a swaram within the same session of the exercise.

Sadhakam carnatic ear trainer app provides such a system. It plays you a short sequence where you have to identify one or more swarasthanams. For example, in one exercise it plays Sa followed by a Ri. You have to tell whether the Ri played is Suddha Rishabam (Ri1), Chatusruti Rishabam (Ri2), or Shatsruti Rishabam (Ri3). Once you answer, the app tells you whether you are right or wrong, it also shows you the correct answer. This way you start associating the swarasthanam with its sound in your mind.

What's interesting here is that you are exposed to all swarasthanas of a swaram in quick succession and repeatedly. For instance, you hear all three rishabams in one exercise several times in random order. This gives you opportunity to closely observe, compare and learn to distinguish different shades of Ri. In later exercises the same swaram is presented in different contexts- in avarohanam, in conjunction with a different swaram, in thara sthayi etc. This way you thoroughly work out various possibilities of the swaram and develop a solid understanding of the swarasthanams.

Thank you,
Ananth Pattabi
_____________________________________________
© Kuyil | Apps Crafted for Carnatic
Shruti Carnatic Tuner | Sādhakam—Carnatic Ear Trainer

SrinathK
Posts: 2477
Joined: 13 Jan 2013, 16:10

Re: Increasing swara knowledge for rasikas and dabblers

Post by SrinathK »

If you want swara knowledge to improve, you should

1) First be familiar with all the 12 swarasthanas and the swaras :
S, R1, R2 / G1, R3 / G2, G3, M1, M2, P, D1, D2 / N1, D3 / N2 and upper S

2) Listen to a raga, it's aro-avaro, which swaras come in it and then the swara patterns in that raga. Every few days try a new melakarta scale. Later on try to switch between scales or sing the arohanam of one scale and the avarohanam of another scale. Also sing swaras in other ragas too.

Pro Tip : Sing chromatic scales -- like S R1 R2 G3 M1 M2 P D1 N1 N2 N3 S or S R1 G1 G2 G3 M1 M2 P D1 D2 N2 N3 S covering all 12 swarasthanas (the swaras are different because the positions of R2 = G1, R3 = G2, D2 = N1 and D3 = N2. The only rule is G > R and N > D.

3) Convert swara phrases into raga phrases - learn your geetams and move up to sangathis and then raga alapana.

4) With the help of a teacher (or solo for more advanced learners), take a phrase from a geetam first, then a kriti, or raga alapana or a neraval or a sangathi, convert it back into swaras, then reconstruct it back into the phrase. Work on one raga before moving to another.

5) Expand your recognition to 3 octaves and more.

6) For music students -- play an instrument or let your teacher play it for you if they can - a veena, a violin (I won't recommend a flute although advanced listeners will have no problem with it, but beginners cannot see the pitch variation with their eyes like the other two). It will give you in depth and precise information as to how a passage goes and you can use the instrument as a feedback to improve your phrases, swarasthanas and gamakas.

If you are a beginner, I recommend a keyboard. It is good enough to help you register the 12 swarasthanas, aro-avarohana patterns and swaras. One can get a good idea with simpler passages and lay a decent foundation. A Veena or violin will help develop a finer ear for more microscopic nuances later on.

7) For very seasoned musical ears, do spend some time deciphering brighas and phrases peculiar to each musician.

msakella
Posts: 2127
Joined: 30 Sep 2006, 21:16

Re: Increasing swara knowledge for rasikas and dabblers

Post by msakella »

Dear brother-member, vasanthakokilam,

Since last 7 or 8 months, being very busily engaged in the propagation of my logical methods in learning our music in our Telugu Desham through WhatsApp, yesterday only, accidentally, I have gone through your post and the contents. Hence the delay in responding.

Yes, as you wrote, I have been making extensive research upon this problem, ultimately, found out a very logical way-out and implementing it to all our kids learning music in this modern, logical and very successful methods. In fact, as it defers from person to person it is not that easy to bring out all the details here. A Lec-dem may properly serve the need. However, as you have asked me, I shall try to bring out some of the details, at the least, to your notice.

While quantitative teaching of a number of compositions, merely making the student dependent and an imitative parrot, is the criteria of the age old method of teaching, now, in the modern, logical and qualitative learning (not teaching) of our music the student very independently works on his own from the very first day of the lesson and learn things like the intricacies of rhythm and notes fulfilling the criteria to sing the creative Swarakalpana and Ragalapana hardly within a couple of years only unbelievably. In this process of learning the teacher, without singing himself even for less than 5%, properly initiates the kid work for more than 95% and none of our music-teachers are ever used to this method.

While Talas, Jatis, Gatis, different kinds of Muktayis for different starting points of different compositions are the intricacies of the rhythm writing the compositions in general notation or detailed-notation or even symbolised notation and different kinds of oscillations of notes of the phrases of different Ragas are the intricacies of notes. This entire quantum of knowledge will very easily be acquired by the aspirant kid hardly within a couple of years only but not by an adult who is not that sensitive like a kid. That is why we mostly prefer to train kids only in this system. Both for Swarakalpana and Ragalapana we have specific proven methods to equip kids but not elders. Mostly we teach up to Varnas only and by the end of our training most of our kids even write the Varnas on the black-board either in general notation or detailed-notation or symbolised-notation and demonstrate singing them elaborately @ one note per second along with all the different kinds of oscillations successfully and efficiently (visit: https://youtu.be/cUgz0Ivi4jo).

Around the 7th or 8th year of age the kid will, at the first instance, be initiated to go through the 60+ Special Laya exercises and finish them learning within a month. Any human being remains always active by moving from place to place by walk and his legs are to properly be strengthened in this respect and, in the same manner, even in music, to make the required movements efficiently it is logical to train the kid in different rhythmical exercises. By doing this with the help of the Metronome he can very easily go further and further from Saralees to Gitas with the help of the keyboard within one month maximum. Later, while starting the playing and singing the 9 select Varnas @ one note per second and later @ 4-6-8 per beat with the help of the keyboard, simultaneously, he also starts the rendering of the Kalpana-jatis-1, 2 & 3 of the Kalpana-swaras-1, 2 & 3 levels in all the six popular Talas along with the swara-exercises in all the 32 Avivadi-melas furnished in my book, Akella’s easy methods. By all this he will certainly get amazing acquaintance with both the Swaras and Laya which enables him proceed with learning Kritis & Swarakalpana. For Ragalapana he follows the notated Ragalapana-segments furnished along with the respective audio-files in my book, ‘Sangita Swararaga Sudha’ and later with the 86 segmented-ragalapana-audio-files of MSG, Lalgudi and Chandrashekharan furnished in Mediafire (refer 553-AMS easy methods-2007) to notate and learn them all.

My entire research is to properly equip our kids only in a time-bound and result-oriented plan but not the elders. amsharma

Ramasubramanian M.K
Posts: 1226
Joined: 05 May 2009, 08:33

Re: Increasing swara knowledge for rasikas and dabblers

Post by Ramasubramanian M.K »

INTERESTING THREAD I missed earlier. My view is that while Swara Gyanam is a natural gift(I do not have it!!). practicing on the lines suggested by VK,Bilahari et al are very valuable. In my 70-plus years of listening I can confess I began to notice the. swears only just about 20 years back!!!!.While I was growing up fascinated by TNR's rapid Brigas, I used to have my late Aunt --who had impeccable swore Gyanam (she was a very good Vainika too and was literally held in awe by the likes of SSI,MSS and Kalyankrishna Bhagavathar) --translate those sangathis and that is when I learnt that "focussed hearing is more important than merely trying to "decipher the notations.

Also as one develops swara.

Gyanam one learns to appreciate the unique traverse from one swara to another by some musicians--example I used to be fascinated by GNB's use of Dha Ri in BIlahari swaram singing-- and also his use of the accented Suddha Daivatam in Panthuvarali (likewise in Saveri)
Forgive me for this "pedestrian" post-I should remind myself 'FOOLS RUSH IN WHERE ANGELS FEAR TO TREAD"!!!!

Ramasubramanian M.K
Posts: 1226
Joined: 05 May 2009, 08:33

Re: Increasing swara knowledge for rasikas and dabblers

Post by Ramasubramanian M.K »

Sorry for the spelling errors--this Auto Correct is a menace!! It turns Swara into swear!!

SrinathK
Posts: 2477
Joined: 13 Jan 2013, 16:10

Re: Increasing swara knowledge for rasikas and dabblers

Post by SrinathK »

Ramasubramanian M.K wrote: 22 Oct 2017, 21:37 INTERESTING THREAD I missed earlier. My view is that while Swara Gyanam is a natural gift(I do not have it!!). practicing on the lines suggested by VK,Bilahari et al are very valuable. In my 70-plus years of listening I can confess I began to notice the. swears only just about 20 years back!!!!.While I was growing up fascinated by TNR's rapid Brigas, I used to have my late Aunt --who had impeccable swore Gyanam (she was a very good Vainika too and was literally held in awe by the likes of SSI,MSS and Kalyankrishna Bhagavathar) --translate those sangathis and that is when I learnt that "focussed hearing is more important than merely trying to "decipher the notations.

Also as one develops swara.

Gyanam one learns to appreciate the unique traverse from one swara to another by some musicians--example I used to be fascinated by GNB's use of Dha Ri in BIlahari swaram singing-- and also his use of the accented Suddha Daivatam in Panthuvarali (likewise in Saveri)
Forgive me for this "pedestrian" post-I should remind myself 'FOOLS RUSH IN WHERE ANGELS FEAR TO TREAD"!!!!
My view is that the mind is the most flexible muscle in the entire system. Using some simple exercises and knowledge of the twelve notes and a feel of the gamakas, this skill can be learned in a jiffy if developed in a structured manner (something which musicians get ample experience with, but the rasika doesn't). Especially violinists, since their job description demands them to decipher and reproduce.

Long ago, I deconstructed an alapana of GNB from these basic tenets (something also covered by AMS methods).

The alapana is here (the beginning opening phrase is lost) : https://soundcloud.com/user461654480/gn ... li-alapana

And in this post, I have the swaras
viewtopic.php?t=21378&start=50#p241940

The whole alapana is a bit of work, and there are some parts that can never quite be accurately represented in fixed swaras, but it is simply just one phrase followed by another phrase, and then another. More simpler alapana phrases like those of the mini-alapanas are are simpler and easier for beginners.

Still, despite this and slowing down many recordings, some phrases are much harder to decipher than others. Sometimes you don't get them until your long term memory somehow intuitively figures it out.

GNB demonstrated an interesting effect in that the change of gamakas of the R1 and D1 when no longer coupled to S and P cause them to go higher up, since the oscillation is now around R1 or D1 rather than between S-R1 or P-D1.

msakella
Posts: 2127
Joined: 30 Sep 2006, 21:16

Re: Increasing swara knowledge for rasikas and dabblers

Post by msakella »

To tell the truth, in my view as a professional-violin-accompanist, having accompanied many stalwarts on Violin for many years and also as a professional-teacher having made the learning process very strictly ‘time-bound and result-oriented’ unlike any other teacher on earth, I honestly feel that the three Violin-stalwarts, MSG, LGJ & MC, having not only created their individual finger-techniques and styles of playing the instrument but having also accompanied almost all the stalwarts hundreds of times, they have acquired more knowledge of music than any other Violinist on earth. Among them, in particular, LGJ, having accompanied GNB hundreds of times, absolutely imbibed all his knowledge than any other Violinist on earth. That is why his combination in GNB’s concerts remains unforgettable to the listeners.

In feeding this knowledge to the kids, I have cut the raga-accompaniment portion of their concerts, cut each one of them into segments, made independent folders of these three stalwarts and kept in ‘Mediafire’ (https://www.mediafire.com/folder/39c9on ... olin_Ragas)
(http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic ... 91#p314391) for the benefit of the aspirants. By writing the notation of all these segments and following them sincerely the aspirants could very easily acquire higher knowledge of them. amsharma

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