Swara Identification Exercises, Vocal: Post Answers Here

To teach and learn Indian classical music
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vasanthakokilam
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#201

Post by vasanthakokilam » 01 Oct 2007, 12:12

Very nice Suji. Sounds great.
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cmlover
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#202

Post by cmlover » 01 Oct 2007, 20:13

Thanks and congrats Suji
You have captured the essence of karnataka devagandhari (OK Bimplas :)
Douse your strings with honey @12 secs for that heart-rending melody!
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arunk
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#203

Post by arunk » 01 Oct 2007, 22:20

If someone wants the pitch graph (pitch vs. time) of the original sample, send me email (via forum e.g.). I am reluctant to post such analysis on a public forum without permission from artist.

Arun
Last edited by arunk on 01 Oct 2007, 22:20, edited 1 time in total.
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cmlover
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#204

Post by cmlover » 01 Oct 2007, 22:32

Arun
The clip I posted (purely educational) is from that of a music teacher who I do not know to get permission!

VK
Those restrictions will apply even to the TNK clip. And if we are going to be conservative in choosing materials for education I should stop right here!

Bye folks!

Sorry Folks!
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arunk
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#205

Post by arunk » 01 Oct 2007, 23:12

cmlover - i meant in terms of using fourier or similar analysis (and discussions on whether a person did the correct sthanam, where they deviated, how much etc.).

It is just my preference to stay away from those (i was even a bit hesitant to say "not ideal sthanam" but then the discussion was already in place). I did not mean to impose that anyone or suggest we close shop :) I do not know whether one needs permission to try to figure out swaras from a rendition.

Arun
Last edited by arunk on 01 Oct 2007, 23:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Suji Ram
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#206

Post by Suji Ram » 01 Oct 2007, 23:20

In my view such analysis are not relavant to CM at all. For eg a gamaka on N2 can traverse all notes between S`-- N2 and further down even D2
We can use ears/instrument as our best judge.
We might at the end be picking on artist and teacher and that must be avoided.
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arunk
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#207

Post by arunk » 01 Oct 2007, 23:28

I agree. For the job at hand, we do not need this. But I do not think anybody intended this - some people perceived an ambiguity in a swara in the short clip.

Perhaps the lesson to be learned is to always use a long enough clip (like byte.mp3 - nice nomenclature cmlover :)! so that the raga/mela is more readily recognizable. Once that is done, most of us will subconsciously extrapolate/intrapolate as necessary.

Arun
Last edited by arunk on 01 Oct 2007, 23:29, edited 1 time in total.
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arunk
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#208

Post by arunk » 01 Oct 2007, 23:46

My answer for byte - I had a hard time representing some slides. I think i may went overboard and imagined stuff that is not really there :)

Code: Select all

s /g s (p)m pm/p ...
p n p n* n# /s' . . . 
(d)/n d p m g , r n` s 

s' => tara shadjam
n` => mandra nishadam
n* => (s')n	ni from sa
n# => /(s')(d)/n/   i.e. ni from sa down to a tinge of da 
                               and then continuously up via ni to sa
Last edited by arunk on 01 Oct 2007, 23:46, edited 1 time in total.
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vasanthakokilam
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#209

Post by vasanthakokilam » 02 Oct 2007, 00:32

Arun: Understood. I probably added to your dharma sankatam by quoting you about the swara sthanam..

CML, we can still continue without the FFT pitch analysis.
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cmlover
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#210

Post by cmlover » 02 Oct 2007, 01:04

Thanks folks for clearing the air!

I think we should not name any names while discussing in order not to 'incriminate' anyone of shruti lapses. Anonymous clips will never hurt and let us not ask who the 'author' is, since we only want to learn from the exercise, know the raga but the 'name' of the artiste is immaterial. As VK suggests there is no need for FF analyses as our consensus is more than enough! I will of course share the artiste's own interpretation whenever I have it, if it is OK by you!

Thanks Arun for unravelling the byte! I guess hereafter we can use your notations as a pattern for indicating jaru and anusvara!
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Suji Ram
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#211

Post by Suji Ram » 02 Oct 2007, 01:27

s (m)g s (m)g (p)m p,,

p np,, (s')n [ (sd/)n]2 s',,

(sp/)n d p m g, r n`s

In the first bit I heard a second G (VK and CML also had it)

In the byte it is hard to explain but I represented something.... :)


Also the first G seems to come from M rather than S.
The G from S seems awkward for bhimpalas. Can someone verify?
Last edited by Suji Ram on 02 Oct 2007, 01:38, edited 1 time in total.
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cmlover
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#212

Post by cmlover » 02 Oct 2007, 01:48

Suji
I understand '()' means half note, but what is '[]2' ?
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arunk
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#213

Post by arunk » 02 Oct 2007, 01:52

() i think is anuswara , [] may be to group one swara/strike/bow.

suji - ga from sa may not be that uncommon, when ni can from pa, the ga from sa sort of works in tandem (i.e. compare sa/ga to pa/ni => sa to pa spacing is same as ga to ni).

It is sort of like in hindola where sa/ga can be in tandem with ma/da (sa to ma spacing and ga to da (shuddha) spacing is same).

But as always, I defer to the more knowledgeable if the above is not correct.

Arun
Last edited by arunk on 02 Oct 2007, 01:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Suji Ram
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#214

Post by Suji Ram » 02 Oct 2007, 01:59

cmlover wrote:Suji
I understand '()' means half note, but what is '[]2' ?
Repeated twice.
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Suji Ram
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#215

Post by Suji Ram » 02 Oct 2007, 02:02

Arun,
I understand that S to G is common,
but the M to G in this piece seems to add flavor to the specific raga here
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arunk
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#216

Post by arunk » 02 Oct 2007, 02:08

ah ok. your last post said "the G from S seems awkward for bhimpalas"

But now that I listen again, it does sound like s (m)g s at the start. It does have a different feel. I dont know how common/uncommon for this raga.
Last edited by arunk on 02 Oct 2007, 02:09, edited 1 time in total.
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cmlover
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#217

Post by cmlover » 02 Oct 2007, 05:38

Arun
I thought we will use parentheses '()' to denote half notes and double parentheses for quarter notes etc since we cannot have double underlinings in regular notation! We will use ',' for doubling of course.
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Suji Ram
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#218

Post by Suji Ram » 21 Apr 2008, 03:23

http://www.sendspace.com/file/4b486j

I was listening to this alapana and got a little confused about the raga.

I am posting only that confused segment. Can anyone identify this raga?
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cmlover
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#219

Post by cmlover » 21 Apr 2008, 04:35

Suji
I am getting S G2 M1 D1 prominantly. It is not hindolam or kalyanavasantam for sure. Maybe you should post the full aalaapana to get a complete feel since the uttaraanga is missing!
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Suji Ram
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#220

Post by Suji Ram » 21 Apr 2008, 06:17

CML you are way off...
I will wait for others
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mohan
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#221

Post by mohan » 21 Apr 2008, 06:44

madhyamAvati?
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arunk
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#222

Post by arunk » 21 Apr 2008, 06:51

It is madyamAvati alright - anchoring on pa a lot, and hitting ni also a bit flatly i.e. not the usual one. It gives a different feel BTW who is the singer? It seems similar to the one some rasikas.org guys and I attended :). I think he may have toured your area suji.

Arun
Last edited by arunk on 21 Apr 2008, 06:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Suji Ram
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#223

Post by Suji Ram » 21 Apr 2008, 07:49

madhyamAvati- unusual isn't it?

while the beginning of the alapana(not included in the clip) was madhyamAvati for sure, when I reached hearing this part I went uhh?? :rolleyes:
actually the rest of the alapana is also a bit unusual. The violinist however reassures us that we are with madhyamAvati.

Now I started hearing a bit brindAvana sAranga- (dikshitar's) at some places. Not sure why.
May be that's the reason it is called madhmad sArang=madhyamavati+b sAranga

Mohan,
You had a ? after madhyamAvati. what is your inference?

I think he may have toured your area suji.
:)
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mohan
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#224

Post by mohan » 21 Apr 2008, 07:59

yup - brindavana saranga crossed my mind at times because there was a lot of ri, ma and pa which is common to the two ragas. I put the question mark since I was confused by CML's comments. I guess he has not picked up the base sruthi and thus has heard another raga (a greha-bedham equivalent). shuddha dhanyAsi, mOhana, shuddhasAvEri, hindOLa and madhyamAvati are greha-bedham equivalents.

Getting back to the clip in question, the phrases used reminded me of those used by GNB in one his grand madhayamAvati alApanas. Who is the artist?
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Suji Ram
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#225

Post by Suji Ram » 21 Apr 2008, 08:15

mohan wrote:yup - brindavana saranga crossed my mind at times because there was a lot of ri, ma and pa which is common to the two ragas. I put the question mark since I was confused by CML's comments. I guess he has not picked up the base sruthi and thus has heard another raga (a greha-bedham equivalent). shuddha dhanyAsi, mOhana, shuddhasAvEri, hindOLa and madhyamAvati are greha-bedham equivalents.

Getting back to the clip in question, the phrases used reminded me of those used by GNB in one his grand madhayamAvati alApanas. Who is the artist?
Thanks Mohan,
Would love to hear GNB's -any pointers
This clip was from MA concert of Abhishek Raghuram - probably the one Arun attended.
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