Let us learn some Sanskrit

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vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Thanks CML. So the tamil usage, say, sIkkiramaha Grahithukolbavar comes from shIghragrAhi ? (Grahi is probably used in brahmanical tamil. I may not use that in a sentence myself in the natural flow of conversation but if someone uses that in Tamil, I will know what it means.)

On a different but related topic:
I first thought may be grAhi and Grasp are Cognates, but my search for it did not go anywhere. One Latin word for 'grasp' is prehendo ( from which comes comprehend I suppose ). Merriam-Webster considers grasp to come from Middle English graspen. First Known Use: 14th century
My search also led to this
"German haben (like English have) in fact comes from PIE *kap, 'to grasp', and its real cognate in Latin is capere, 'to seize, grasp, capture'."

PUNARVASU
Posts: 2498
Joined: 06 Feb 2010, 05:42

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by PUNARVASU »

We have 'EkasantagrAhi', one who grasps in the first time itself.

Rsachi
Posts: 5039
Joined: 31 Aug 2009, 13:54

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by Rsachi »

VK, CML,
My submission:
tasyAH tODI-rAga-AlApanA pratikShaNam utsAhabharitA AsIt |
If we really want to use a double negative, we can say
tasyAH tODI-rAga-AlApanA kadApi nirutsAhabharitA nAsIt |

viduShi gAyatrI vEnkatarAghavan gatadivase bhAratIya saMgIta utsave tOdi rAgam agAyata | tasyAH kramapUrita AlApanA rasabharitA AsIt | tadanantaraM sA tyAgarAjasvAmI-viracita 'cEsinadella' vistArarUpE nirUpitA | mE etadnirUpaNena AnandaM bhAvitaM | etadkAryakramaM antarjAlamAdhyamE mayA SROtaM |

classicallover
Posts: 374
Joined: 21 Nov 2010, 00:05

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by classicallover »

Rsachi and Vasko have attempted to write well. Rsachi's second sentence for the double negative is wrong since there is a third negative in it. The actual sentences would be : ( only the corrections indicated )

tasyaah todiraagaalaapana pratikshaNam utsaahabharitah aasiit |

tasyaah todiraagaalapana kadaapi nirutsaahabharita naasiit |

viduShi .....sangiita ..... | ...... aalaapana ........rasabharita S asiit | ( The capital S is the avagraham )

tad.......vistrutaruupeNa niruupitavati | me etanniruupaNena ...... | etatkaaryakramam antarjaalamaadhyamena mayaa srutam |

We have also alpagraahi, ekasantaagraahi, madhyagraahi, adhograahi, uchchagrahi, agraahi, etc..

Rsachi
Posts: 5039
Joined: 31 Aug 2009, 13:54

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by Rsachi »

Classicallover, please also correct the following. Thank you:
संसृतभाषामाध्यमे सल्लापं खलु कठिनसाध्यं | तदपि एतन्माध्यमे अनेक जनाः विविध भारतीय भवन्तः एक काले परस्परं विविध विषये विचारणं संभाषणं चार्चां च समाधानवत् कारयन्तः| विशेषतः भारतीय संगीत रसिकत्वे सल्लपोत्सुकाः एतन्माध्यमे प्रयासं कुर्वन्तु इति मदभिप्रायः|

Due to some HTML bug, the script is modified when viewed in different devices, in copy paste. The actual typing is this:
Image

(this is an iPad App I just purchased- Type Sanskrit for $0.99)

classicallover
Posts: 374
Joined: 21 Nov 2010, 00:05

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by classicallover »

Rs,

Is this supposed to be a test for me or for the iPad , or both ? Anyway, the " actual typing is also wrong in few places ". Your statements could be viewed differently and hence different sentences could be written. Without actually knowing what you wanted to mean, I have attempted to bring an average of the various thoughtful corrections possible. Some sandhis and samaasaas have not been done for sake of your reading convenience.

संस्कृतभाषामाध्यमेन सल्लाप: खलु कठिनोSसाध्यश्चेति वदंति | तथापि, एतन्माध्यमेन अनेकजना: , विविधभारतीया: भूत्वा एकसमये परसपरं विविधविषयेशु विचारणचर्चां कुर्वंती | विशेषत: भारतीयकर्नाटकशास्त्रीयसंगीतरसिकत्वे सल्लापोत्सुका: एतन्माध्यमेनैव प्रयासं कुर्वंतु इति प्रार्थये ||

Rsachi
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Joined: 31 Aug 2009, 13:54

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by Rsachi »

Thanks a lot, sir. I have noted the following corrections:
sallApa - masculine. mAdhyamEna - 3rd Vibhakti. Also other language suggestions.

cmlover
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by cmlover »

classicallover:
The word कठिनसाध्यं employed by Rsachi is a 3rd vibhakti tatpuruSha compound which dissolves as: कठिनॆन साध्यं = with difficulty possible.
You have resolved it as
कठिनोSसाध्यश्चेति = कठिनः असाध्यः च इति (difficult and impossible ..)
That changes the meaning entirely, if that was not intended by him...

Rsachi
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Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by Rsachi »

Cmlover, yes, I meant difficult but possible.

cmlover
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by cmlover »

classicallover
Pl don't take this critically..
You are suggesting that we use samskritam instead of Sanskrit.
Grammatically
सम् +कृत् = सङ् (change due to euphonics)+ (स्) कृत् = संस्कृत्
which is actully sanskrit as the hindi wallahs correctly nasalize.
The (स्) gets introduced for ornamentation (Panini 6.1.137-139)

classicallover
Posts: 374
Joined: 21 Nov 2010, 00:05

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by classicallover »

Already told that I had averaged out the various possibilities for the incongruent sentences by Rsachi. For ex., kaThinasadhyam was not matching with tadapi. Hence tathaapi was thought of, to mean, that inspite of the difficulty some people do talk, and other corrections.

kaThinasaadhyam is not delineated as you told. It would be a dwandwa karmadhaaraya samasa, as : कठिनं च तत् साध्यं च | For this there is a better contextual word : दुस्साध्यं |

The word Samskritam itself means, " well decorated one " . The " hindiwaallaas " nasalise and nationalise everything . But they pronounce as : सन् + स् + कृत् = सन्स्कृत् , which is wrong. This is due to the persian influence.

The way the word is synthesised is :

1 || सम् + कृतम् ; Apply Rule = सम् परिभ्यां करोतौ भूषणे सुट् कात् पूर्व: -->

2 || सम् +स् + कृतम् ; Apply Rule = समस् सुटि ( रु ) -->

3 || सर् + स् + कृतम् ; Apply Rule = अनुनासिका: पूर्वस्यतु वा ( रु ) -->

4 || सॅंर् + स् + कृतम् ; Apply Rule = अनुनासिकात् परो अनुस्वार: ; Alternately विकल्प: = same form is retained -->

5 || संर् + स् + कृतम् ; Apply Rule = कर् अवसानयो: विसर्जनीय: ; or सॅंर् + स् + कृतम् -->

6 || सं: + स् + कृतम् ; Apply Rule = विसर्जनीयस्य स: ; or सॅं: + स् + कृतम् -->

7 || संस् + स् + कृतम् ; Apply Rule = झरो झरी सवर्णे ; or सॅंस् + स् + कृतम् -->

8 || सं + स् + कृतम् ; or सॅं + स् + कृतम् -->

9 || संस्कृतम् or सॅँस्कृतम्

I was emphasising on the second chandrabindu version as Samskritam which can be better pronounced than the other.

Rsachi
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Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by Rsachi »

tadapi=despite that.
tathApi= Even then.

cmlover
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by cmlover »

classicallover:
Thanks for that elaborate derivation of the word संस्कृतं.
I could not locate your sutras for 3 and 5 in Panini. Rest is fine. Pl provide if you can.
I agree that the 'chandrabindu' version is the ultimate correct one. There is no equivalent in Roman for its vocalisation! Ofcourse the vedic vocalisation is totally different...
Right or wrong the westerners have picked up the word from the Northerners (Hindi) and use it currently as Sanskrit.
The Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanskrit
does support your derivation but not the usage!
Similar problem arises in regard to Tamil which is artificially written as Tamizh by some!

vasanthakokilam
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Can that derivation be explained in English? That is fascinating.

cmlover
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by cmlover »

Rsachi
The word अपि when compounded with other words has different meanings (Refer Apte's dictionary). One of the meaning is 'even'.
Thus तद् + अपि = तदपि would mean 'even that' or 'so being'
तथा + अपि = तथापि would be 'even in that manner'
In either case I don't see any problem in the usage.

I disagree with classicallover dissolving कठिनसाध्यं as a dwandwa compound which is not what you intended. That can be dissolved as a tatpuruSha or dwandwa and there is ambiguity which is inherent in the sanskrit language. For example the famous vedic story (Satapatha Brahmana) of Vritra's father getting his son killed by invoking इंद्रशत्रुर्वधस्व. Equiviocation is rampant in sanskrit which of course adds to its literary beauty. Hence IMHO it is inappropriate to be used as a Computer programming language where precision is essential!

cmlover
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by cmlover »

VK
Those Paninian rules are so complex that it is claimed that he killed the language :D

Rsachi
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Joined: 31 Aug 2009, 13:54

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by Rsachi »

I find, to my understanding, no problem with either tadapi or kaThinasAdhyam.

classicallover
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Joined: 21 Nov 2010, 00:05

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by classicallover »

Cml's jeering opinion has no effect on the application of Samskritam. ;) Inspite of the so-called complexity, it has been found to have many specifics which are sufficient for programming. Words like api are called avyayas and combine with other shabdas & avyayas to give a plethora of meanings.

Why should we consider the foreigner's opinion as standard regarding usage or history of the culture ? They still believe that Macaulay's principles were the most sacred ones.

srkris
Site Admin
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Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by srkris »

An introduction for those aspiring to start from scratch - http://sanskritdocuments.org/learning_t ... ner-rm.pdf

cmlover
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by cmlover »

A simple but clearly written introductory manual!

thanjavooran
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 04:44

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by thanjavooran »

A share
Sorry for posting this in Tamil


Pada chedanam


>> லக்ஷ்மீ அஷ்டோத்தரம் - ஒரு திருத்தம் <<

தமிழில் ஒரு பழமொழி உண்டு - “எழுதினவன் ஏட்டை கெடுத்தான்”

இது எதற்கு பொருந்துகிறதோ இல்லையோ லக்ஷ்மீ அஷ்டோத்தர சத நாமாவளிக்கு பொருந்துகிறது. முதல் நபர் செய்த தவறை நம்மில் பலரும் தொடர்ந்து கொண்டே இருக்கிறோம்.

இந்த கட்டுரையைப் படித்துவிட்டு முதல் வேலையாக உங்கள் புத்தகங்களில் திருத்தம் செய்து கொள்ளுங்கள்.

லக்ஷ்மி அஷ்டோத்தரத்துக்கு செல்லும் முன் ஒரு அடிப்படை விஷயத்தை விளக்குகிறேன்.

எந்த ஒரு அஷ்டோத்தரமோ ஸஹஸ்ரநாமமோ முதலில் ஸ்தோத்ர வடிவில் ச்லோகங்களாகவே இருக்கும் - பின்னர் இதனை நாமாக்களாக அர்ச்சனைக்காக பிரிப்பது வழக்கம்.

உதாரணமாக

விஷ்ணு ஸஹஸ்ரநாம ஸ்தோத்ரம்

“விச்வம் விஷ்ணுர் வஷட்காரோ....” என்று தான் துவங்குகிறது. இதனைப் பிரித்து,
ஓம் விச்வஸ்மை நம:
ஓம் விஷ்ணவே நம:
ஓம் வஷட்காராய நம:  என்று அர்ச்சனை செய்கிறோம்

அதே போல லக்ஷ்மீ அஷ்டோத்தர சத நாமாவளி

ப்ரக்ருதீம் விக்ருதீம் வித்யாம் ஸர்வபூதஹிதப்ரதாம்... என்று துவங்குகிறது.

இதனை
ஓம் ப்ரக்ருத்யை நம:
ஓம் விக்ருத்யை நம:
ஓம் ஸர்வ பூதஹித ப்ரதாயை நம:

என்று பிரிக்கிறோம்.

இனி முக்கியமான பகுதிக்கு வருவோம்.

லக்ஷ்மீ அஷ்டோத்தர சத நாம ஸ்தோத்ரத்தின் மூன்றாவது ச்லோகம் :

அதிதிம் ச திதிம் தீப்தாம் வசுதாம் வசுதாரிணீம்
நமாமி கமலாம் காந்தாம் காமாக்ஷீம் க்ரோதசம்பவாம்

இதனை ,

ஓம் அதித்யை நம:
ஓம் தித்யை நம:
ஓம் தீப்தாயை நம:
ஓம் வசுதாயை நம:
ஓம் வசுதாரிண்யை நம:
ஓம் கமலாயை நம:
ஓம் காந்தாயை நம:
ஓம் காமாக்ஷ்யை நம:
ஓம் க்ரோத ஸம்பவாயை நம:

என்றே 90% புத்தகங்கள் காட்டுகிறது.

கமலா - தாமரையில் வீற்றிருக்கும் மஹாலக்ஷ்மீ
காந்தா -(விஷ்ணுவின்) மனைவி
காமாக்ஷி - அழகிய கண்களை உடையவள்

இது வரை சரி; அடுத்த நாமா ?

க்ரோத ஸம்பவாயை - கோபத்தோடு உதித்தவள் அல்லது கோபத்தினால் உதித்தவள்.

இது சரியாக பொருந்தவில்லையே...

இப்படி அர்ச்சனை செய்வது சரியாகுமா? லக்ஷ்மிக்கே பிடிக்குமா?

1935ல் வெளிவந்த புத்தகங்களில் நாமா சரியாகவே பிரிக்கப்பட்டுள்ளது. அதன் பின்னர் வந்தவர்கள், யாரோ ஒருவர் அறியாமல் பதம் பிரித்து ”க்ரோத ஸம்பவா” என அச்சிடப்போக, பின்னாளில் வந்தவர்கள் யாருமே அதை சரிபார்க்காமல் அப்படியே அச்சிடுகிறார்கள். இன்று கிட்டத்தட்ட எல்லா புத்த்கங்களிலும் இணையத்திலும் அப்படியே தான் இருக்கிறது.

லக்ஷ்மீ அஷ்டோத்தரம் கொண்டு அர்ச்சனை செய்பவர்க்கு லக்ஷ்மீ கடாக்ஷம் உண்டாகும், ஐச்வர்யம் பெருகும். ஆனால் மக்கள் பலரும் தாங்கள் கஷ்டப்படுவதாக புலம்புவதைப் பார்க்கும் போது - இது போன்று தவறுகள் இருப்பதைக் காண முடிகிறது.

நம்மை யாராவது “சிடுமூஞ்சி” என்றால் நாம் சந்தோஷப்படுவோமா? ஆனால் மஹாலக்ஷ்மியை இப்படி தவறாக அழைத்தால் பூர்ணமாக அனுக்ரஹம் எப்படி கிட்டும் ?

இனி சரியான பாடத்துக்கு வருவோம்

ஓம் கமலாயை நம:
ஓம் காந்தாயை நம:
ஓம் காமாயை நம:
ஓம் க்ஷீரோத ஸம்பவாயை நம:

காமாயை - ஆசையின் வடிவானவளே
க்ஷீரோத ஸம்பவாயை - பாற்கடலில் உதித்தவளே

இது அம்ருத மதன காலத்தில் பாற்கடலில் இருந்து மஹாலக்ஷ்மி உதித்தாள் எனும் புராணத்துக்கு இசைந்து அமைகிறது.

வாசகர்கள் அனைவரும் இனி மேல் நாமாக்களை திருத்திக் கொண்டு மஹாலக்ஷ்மியின் பூர்ண கடாக்ஷத்துக்கு பாத்திரமாகுங்கள்.

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by RSR »

@46
thanjavooran » 03 Nov 2017, 10:25 ...
NICE POST SIR
=================================
I have a simple project in mind.
I want to list nearly 1000 nouns ( of sanskrit origin), commonly used in thamizh.
I will give the word in thamizh and approximate english meaning.
I want to have the exact sanskrit word in devanagari script.
---------------------------------------------------------------
I want to place these in a table form
thamizh, english, sanskrit ( devanagari), sanskrit ( english-transliteration)
example
புஷ்பம் கர்வம்,கௌரவம்,பாண்டித்யம்,மௌனம்,வீரம்,சாதுர்யம்,சாத்வீகம்,பூர்ணம்
flower,pride,dignity, scholarship, silence, courage, cleverness, goodness, fullness etc.
Can you please guide me in my effort?

Sachi_R
Posts: 2174
Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 20:20

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by Sachi_R »

RSR,
I can be of service. Please type in English the Samskrita word and its rough meaning as you know it.
I shall compile the correct Devanagari script for it and give you the dictionary meaning, in an Excel table.
I can host it as an editable file in Google Drive.

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by RSR »

Respected Sachi Sir, Thank you. .I am proceeding to create the website page. right now.
I will be typing the thamizh words as they come to my mind . Not in any particular order. May I know if you can read thamizh..( just short words?) My aim is to get the correct pronunciation in sanskrit for great many words commonly used/ spoken by thamizh people and even writers . Sri.Shankarank can join and help us.
https://sites.google.com/site/rsrtrials ... mizh-words

thanjavooran
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 04:44

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by thanjavooran »

RSR,
Very nice. Sachi avl will further enlighten us with his contributions on this.
Thanjavooran
08 11 2017

Rsachi
Posts: 5039
Joined: 31 Aug 2009, 13:54

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by Rsachi »

Dear Sri. RSR, and Sri. Thanjavooran,
Wonderful.
I can contribute by adding the Samskrita word in Devanagari, IAST transliteration, gender, first 3 meanings and any etymology references if possible. My first choice will be Vamanrao Apte and second Monier Williams. In the next hour, I will share an example for a word from your list. If you approve, we can proceed on a time line.
I am really sorry for myself that I have not learnt Tamil/Tamizh - Reading and writing.

Rsachi
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Joined: 31 Aug 2009, 13:54

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by Rsachi »

Trial Entry as follows:

Tamizh words with Samskrita equivalents
Tamizh * Devanagari * IAST * Part of speech * Meaning

அபூர்வம் apporvam ( rare) * अपूर्व * apūrva * adjective * .{a-stem} 1.not preceded;2.strange;3.unknown

RSR
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Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by RSR »

Sri.R.Sachi, There are some adjectives too in the list. But it is not uncommon in tamil to use 'apporvam' as a noun too. 'apoorvamaana sangathi'. though not strictlly grammatical. This is just a trial to find the exact pronunciation. For instance 'dharmam' is written in thamizh as in thamizh. Tamil words cannot begin with any consonant except the first of ka,cha,ta,tha,pa etc. but sanskrit words abound beginning with soft variant. Moreover lot of trouble with the fourth variant ' ka, kka, ga, gha. The main purpose of this exercise is to get it straight. in devanagari script. I will be completing the tamil words list before the coming week. Later, we can arrange in alphabetical order and perhaps even make it an on-line tamil-sanskrit-english 'finder'. We can even extend the exercise ( I mean 'effort') to adjectives, verbs and adverbs. Almost all the nouns mentioned are 'concepts', So, no need to worry about gender. (neuter)
They all end in 'm' sound, if I am not mistaken. (ex) swadharmam , swaraajayam ,
soundhryam Primarily I want to know if this is correct.

rshankar
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by rshankar »

svadharma - स्वधर्म (correct)
saundharya - सौन्धर्य (incorrect)
saundarya - सौन्दर्य (correct)

Rsachi
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Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by Rsachi »

RSR sir,
Please indicate the part of speech for Tamizh. My indication is purely for Samskrita.

Just saying apūrva will elicit the question, what is apūrva? That is why it is called an adjective.

Some names like Saundarya, Apūrva, are used for names etc. They are called anvarthas, because they are quality descriptors. They are proper nouns derived from adjectives.

Let us compile the list first... Using Excel will be a great idea. Even editable spreadsheets cane be uploaded in Google Docs.

RSR
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Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by RSR »

rshankar_ji, as there is no fourth sound in tamil, I am just using a simple phonetic scheme. ( this is an old controversy..kindly bear with me) My interest is not in transliteration in english. So, soundarya is not acceptable. ( i will pronounce it as in 'sound' ) soundharyam is soft dha . as in dhaanam . That is why I am requesting sanskrit word in devanagari script. ..My another more important doubt is ending in 'm'. Without the 'm', it sounds like an adjective. (in tamil-sanskrit usage) . For example, soundarya lahari . vs soundaryam. . karunaa saagaram kaarunyam as noun. , poorna swarajyam vs poornam . There is some vedic text if i remember right.
http://aumamen.com/mantra/om-purnamadah ... nti-mantra
poornam eva
Can we leave a sanskrit noun just hanging in air like poorna ?
gita slokam mentions 'swadharmam' . not swadharma . May I have clarification? Any reference in web for sanskrit nouns? tamilized sanskrit nouns end in 'm' sound. In strict grammatical sanskrit ,should we not add 'ha' (short'? aja (ha) , nara(ha) , yoga kshemam moksham. arttham dharmam swaadheenam
raajya or raajyam ? raama raajyam in tamilized sanskrit. ( I think, it sounds sweet).
nardhanam or nardhana? This is how sanskrit nouns are written in thamizh religious books that I have read. Please correct me. .

Rsachi
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Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by Rsachi »

Sir,
Samskrita nouns have 8 cases=declension.
svadharmam is accusative case.
The declensions of dharma are:
Masculine Singular Dual Plural
Nominative dharmaḥ dharmau dharmāḥ
Vocative dharma dharmau dharmāḥ
Accusative dharmam dharmau dharmān
Instrumental dharmeṇa dharmābhyām dharmaiḥ
Dative dharmāya dharmābhyām dharmebhyaḥ
Ablative dharmāt dharmābhyām dharmebhyaḥ
Genitive dharmasya dharmayoḥ dharmāṇām
Locative dharme dharmayoḥ dharmeṣu

In bhagavdgīta, dharmaḥ, dharmam, dharmān, dharme... come. All different cases.

rshankar
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by rshankar »

But it would be totally incorrect to pronounce dharma/धर्म (in any of the 8 cases) as दर्म ..... just as it would be wrong to pronounce दर (conch) as धर.
or svadharma/स्वधर्म as स्वदर्म.

All letters have a purpose/sound (they are after all, imperishable - i.e, akshara/अक्षर), to be brought out in pronunciation, however nuanced it be: the letter ष is as much a retro-flexed consonant (to be pronounced with the tongue rolled back on itself) as ट, ठ, ड, ढ, and ण are for example, and distinct from श in pronunciation.....so, pronouncing मीनाक्षी (क्ष = क् + ष) as मीनाक्शी is not correct....the written form should therefore convey the pronunciation unambiguously....

thanjavooran
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 04:44

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by thanjavooran »

Rshankar,
Thanks. We learn a lot. Quite interesting. In school days Bhandarkar was the only authoritative reference.
Thanjavooran
09 11 2011

RSR
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Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by RSR »

I entirely agree with Shankar_ji. In fact, that is precisely what I need help in. Unlike all the other Indian languages, Tamil lacks separate letters for the four variants. and this leads to wrong pronunciation. English transliteration scheme may not be useful for getting the sound effect as spoken by tamils ( using occasional sanskrit words).Hence my request for sanskrit term in devanagari script.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sachi Sir, just treat all the words given by me as 'conceptual nouns'. The english equivalents like justice, duty, travel, sacrifice, valour, courage, lotus, welfare, and so singular ( and neuter). For example, when we consider the word for 'flower' ( pushpam) it is enough if we know the word in sanskrit ( devanagari letters). We will go into grammar after picking up vocabulary of a thousand nouns with correct writing and pronunciation. ....( my understanding is .... words ending in 'm' sound, have two different contexts. One as plain noun and the other as in case. Let us consider the names of famous plays of Kalidasa. Saakunthalam, Raghuvamsam, Kumarasambavam, Megasandhesam, etc. These are all just nouns. but not in '... devaki paramaanandham krushnam vandhe jagath gurum'. meaning I worship him. in tamil 'avarai' vanabukiren' . I am adding 100 more words ( 99% nouns only).today. (set 4)
https://sites.google.com/site/rsrtrials ... /third-set
kindly have a look to understand what I am trying to get help for. Best Regards.

RSR
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Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by RSR »

is it not rama(ha) , ramou and raamaaha?

Rsachi
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Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by Rsachi »

RSR sir,
I think I understood your effort rightaway.
The part of speech indicator in Samskrita is given so we know if a word is a noun category with its own gender (declined accordingly), or verb category with no gender (but huge variety of forms in conjugation ☺️) or adjective which follows the noun (and thus declined similarly), or an indeclinable (no conjugation or declension).

In "devakīparamānandaṃ kṛṣṇaṃ vande jagadgurum" , three words are declined as nouns, one is a verb. The original noun is kṛṣṇaṃ, devakīparamānandaṃ and jagadgurum are qualifiers.

I feel we have no deal-breaker here, we can continue the exercise, I suggest you tolerate the part of speech column for Samskrita. Add any description or meaning you deem fit as in Tamil. . Even the Tamil transliteration you put in there should not be debated in the first pass... It can always be tweaked later.

When you have a bunch of words complete d in a list or an Excel table, send me the link if you want me to add those columns I out it as a trial case.

RSR
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Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by RSR »

Sachi Sir, Excuse me. The noun in that sentence is not specifically mentioned. but is the worshiper. Whom does he worship?
he worships Lord Krushna . ( krushnam)
Lord Krushna is the 'delight of Devaki'. In poetic usage, it is not Deavaki's but simply devaki paramaanandham. ( paramaanadham can be taken as a noun. The delight of devaki.. and also as 'paramaanandham tharupavanai'
Krushna is also Jagath Guru. What lovely lines!
वसुदेवसुतं देवं कंस चाणूर मर्दनम् ।
देवकीपरमानन्दं कृष्णं वन्दे जगद्गुरुम् ॥

अतसी पुष्प सङ्काशं हार नूपुर शोभितम् ।
रत्नकङ्कण केयूरं कृष्णं वन्दे जगद्गुरुम् ॥

कुटिलालक संयुक्तं पूर्णचन्द्र निभाननम् ।
विलसत्कुण्डलधरं कृष्णं वन्दे जगद्गुरम् ॥

मन्दार गन्ध संयुक्तं चारुहासं चतुर्भुजम् ।
बर्हिपिञ्छाव चूडाङ्गं कृष्णं वन्दे जगद्गुरुम् ॥

उत्फुल्लपद्मपत्राक्षं नील जीमूत सन्निभम् ।
यादवानां शिरोरत्नं कृष्णं वन्दे जगद्गुरुम् ॥

रुक्मिणीकेलिसंयुक्तं पीताम्बर सुशोभितम् ।
अवाप्त तुलसी गन्धं कृष्णं वन्दे जगद्गुरुम् ॥

गोपिकानां कुचद्वन्द कुङ्कुमाङ्कित वक्षसम् ।
श्रीनिकेतं महेष्वासं कृष्णं वन्दे जगद्गुरुम् ॥

श्रीवत्साङ्कं महोरस्कं वनमाला विराजितम् ।
शङ्खचक्रधरं देवं कृष्णं वन्दे जगद्गुरुम् ॥

कृष्णाष्टकमिदंपुण्यं प्रातरुत्थाय यः पठेत् ।
कोटिजन्मकृतं पापं स्मरणेन विनश्यति ॥

It will be a nice lesson in fact to separate the words correctly and give meaning in English.

Incidentally, the 4th list is ready. You can edit and add the sanskrit words there itself. I am adding your name as collaborator . ( with your kind permission) .

Rsachi
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Joined: 31 Aug 2009, 13:54

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by Rsachi »

We have some disconnects here.


Noun can be the subject or object.
I is implied here as the subject.

In Samskrita, vande immediately brings I as it is in uttama puruṣa laṭ lakāra.

A noun can be in Samskrita him, his, from him, in him, by him, etc. They are all declensions of he the noun (here a pronoun).

Subject in Samskrita is called kartṛu. Object is karma. Verb is kriyā.

Anyway I wish you the best in your endeavours, sir. Don't worry about Samskrita grammar. Your project is to compile the Samskrita equivalents and their meanings, I think. I will make certain I will follow the Samskrita rules.

I also love kṛṣṇāṣṭakam.
viewtopic.php?t=33#p260

I shall look at your list presently.

RSR
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Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by RSR »

Respected Sachi Sir, Thank you for the translation of the sthothram.
I am attuned to English grammar more than that of Sanskrit. For example, Tragedy is noun. Tragic -adjective, tragically -adverb. It will be easier for all if we follow that pattern. Though all the Indian languages (except Tamil) have adopted the 4 sounds-consonant pattern of Sanskrit, they do not follow the other rules like singular-dual-many . and it is rather weird to assign gender to 'conceptual' nouns like welfare, tragedy, history etc. No disrespect meant. Let us keep it ultra-simple . Let us not overwhelm the new learners coming from tamil background. I need your email-id to include you as a collaborator with privileges to edit the pages. Kindly write to me ( rs.ramaswamy@gmail.com). I can then add the mail id to the page. ) I tried contact link but not effective.
sample-> பூர்வஜென்மம் poorvajanmam (previous birth) पूर्व जन्मम्
harvard -kyoto
http://greenmesg.org/sanskrit_online_to ... ng_pad.php
1)பிராப்தம் , praaptham प्राप्थम्
As I do not know sanskrit well, my kyoto input may not be correct. That is where the help from a learned sanskrit scholar like you can help. That much is sufficient. It helps you in avoiding much typing. The link is really useful.
I located the link just a few minutes back. I am thinking of sparing you the time and effort in typing the words in harvard-kyoto by trying that myself. You can then just check up and give the correct devanagari word where needed. Best Regards.

kvchellappa
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Joined: 04 Aug 2011, 13:54

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by kvchellappa »

प्राप्तं

kvchellappa
Posts: 3597
Joined: 04 Aug 2011, 13:54

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by kvchellappa »

अपूर्वं is also in vogue
अपूर्वं कोपि कोशोयं विद्यते तव भारति।
व्ययतो वर्धमायाति क्षयमायाति संचयात्॥
In Tamizh, we use the word for rare (sometimes corrupted as apuroopam), but that meaning does not appear in Samskrtam.

When an adjective is used as a noun (anvartha vide 55), it is called guna Ahupeyar in Tamizh.

RSR
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Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by RSR »

punarapi jananaṁ punarapi maraṇaṁ
punarapi jananī jaṭhare śayanam |
पुनरपि जननं पुनरपि मरणं
पुनरपि जननीजठरे शयनम् ।
. (jananam, maranam, sayanam ..are they not all nouns?) . Any convention why jananam and maranam are written in sanskrit with a dot over 'm' but differently in s'ayanam?
May I have clarification?

RSR
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Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by RSR »

Welcome Chellappa Sir. This topic of sanskrit words commonly used in thamizh speech and writing will be enriched by native Thamizh speakers and writers. Thank you. Why not join as collaborator of the page?

Rsachi
Posts: 5039
Joined: 31 Aug 2009, 13:54

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by Rsachi »

RSR sir,
I have to break a terrible news to you. I am an absolute novice and a primary level student of Samskrita. But somehow I think I have figured out a few things relevant to be of service to you.
That's all. Let's move on, please. You will be the owner of the output and you can always edit my entries.
Let's move on.

rshankar
Posts: 13754
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by rshankar »

praaptham प्राप्थम
प्राप्थ is not a word in saMskRtam - प्राप्त (attained/reached etc.) exists. But I am not sure if the use of prAptam/pirAptam (ப்ராப்தம்/பிராப்தம்) to indicate 'destiny' or 'destined' exist in saMskRtam.

RSR
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Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by RSR »

@71...Shankar_ji, I have just listed the words which 'sound' 'sanskritized' This word is used very frequently in tamil society ' avanukku ப்ராப்தம் illai! meaning 'hard luck' . I am intrigued how else such words have entered tamil speech especially among brahmins. Kindly indicate the words which are not of sanskrit base. . Is the word used in this sense in the other south indian languages? It will be a great help if you go through the words and suggest the right sanskrit words from the meaning meant. My transliteration is just an attempt as it is spoken. If you give the Kyoto atleast I can find the sanskrit word .Is there any on-line sanskrit to english translator ( except tamil-cube)?

RSR
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Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by RSR »

and English to sanskrit translator?

rshankar
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by rshankar »

avanukku ப்ராப்தம் illai probably means "it is not destined for him"....it probably came about through the original meaning, i.e., he cannot achieve it....and over time destiny became one of the meanings for the word in tamizh, but it did not get back into saMskRtam. It doesn't mean that the word did not come from saMskRtam to begin with, but it's evolution in tamizh may have been different....

Rsachi
Posts: 5039
Joined: 31 Aug 2009, 13:54

Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by Rsachi »

प्रारब्ध
pra+aarabdha means begun, commenced, fate or destiny. It refers to the action of past janma karma that has begun to take effect.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prarabdha_karma

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