Let us learn some Sanskrit

vasanthakokilam
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#26 Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by vasanthakokilam » 09 Nov 2012, 10:22

Thanks CML. So the tamil usage, say, sIkkiramaha Grahithukolbavar comes from shIghragrAhi ? (Grahi is probably used in brahmanical tamil. I may not use that in a sentence myself in the natural flow of conversation but if someone uses that in Tamil, I will know what it means.)

On a different but related topic:
I first thought may be grAhi and Grasp are Cognates, but my search for it did not go anywhere. One Latin word for 'grasp' is prehendo ( from which comes comprehend I suppose ). Merriam-Webster considers grasp to come from Middle English graspen. First Known Use: 14th century
My search also led to this
"German haben (like English have) in fact comes from PIE *kap, 'to grasp', and its real cognate in Latin is capere, 'to seize, grasp, capture'."
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PUNARVASU
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#27 Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by PUNARVASU » 09 Nov 2012, 12:24

We have 'EkasantagrAhi', one who grasps in the first time itself.
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Rsachi
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#28 Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by Rsachi » 09 Nov 2012, 12:58

VK, CML,
My submission:
tasyAH tODI-rAga-AlApanA pratikShaNam utsAhabharitA AsIt |
If we really want to use a double negative, we can say
tasyAH tODI-rAga-AlApanA kadApi nirutsAhabharitA nAsIt |

viduShi gAyatrI vEnkatarAghavan gatadivase bhAratIya saMgIta utsave tOdi rAgam agAyata | tasyAH kramapUrita AlApanA rasabharitA AsIt | tadanantaraM sA tyAgarAjasvAmI-viracita 'cEsinadella' vistArarUpE nirUpitA | mE etadnirUpaNena AnandaM bhAvitaM | etadkAryakramaM antarjAlamAdhyamE mayA SROtaM |
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classicallover
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#29 Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by classicallover » 09 Nov 2012, 14:34

Rsachi and Vasko have attempted to write well. Rsachi's second sentence for the double negative is wrong since there is a third negative in it. The actual sentences would be : ( only the corrections indicated )

tasyaah todiraagaalaapana pratikshaNam utsaahabharitah aasiit |

tasyaah todiraagaalapana kadaapi nirutsaahabharita naasiit |

viduShi .....sangiita ..... | ...... aalaapana ........rasabharita S asiit | ( The capital S is the avagraham )

tad.......vistrutaruupeNa niruupitavati | me etanniruupaNena ...... | etatkaaryakramam antarjaalamaadhyamena mayaa srutam |

We have also alpagraahi, ekasantaagraahi, madhyagraahi, adhograahi, uchchagrahi, agraahi, etc..
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Rsachi
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#30 Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by Rsachi » 09 Nov 2012, 15:21

Classicallover, please also correct the following. Thank you:
संसृतभाषामाध्यमे सल्लापं खलु कठिनसाध्यं | तदपि एतन्माध्यमे अनेक जनाः विविध भारतीय भवन्तः एक काले परस्परं विविध विषये विचारणं संभाषणं चार्चां च समाधानवत् कारयन्तः| विशेषतः भारतीय संगीत रसिकत्वे सल्लपोत्सुकाः एतन्माध्यमे प्रयासं कुर्वन्तु इति मदभिप्रायः|

Due to some HTML bug, the script is modified when viewed in different devices, in copy paste. The actual typing is this:
Image

(this is an iPad App I just purchased- Type Sanskrit for $0.99)
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classicallover
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#31 Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by classicallover » 12 Nov 2012, 12:47

Rs,

Is this supposed to be a test for me or for the iPad , or both ? Anyway, the " actual typing is also wrong in few places ". Your statements could be viewed differently and hence different sentences could be written. Without actually knowing what you wanted to mean, I have attempted to bring an average of the various thoughtful corrections possible. Some sandhis and samaasaas have not been done for sake of your reading convenience.

संस्कृतभाषामाध्यमेन सल्लाप: खलु कठिनोSसाध्यश्चेति वदंति | तथापि, एतन्माध्यमेन अनेकजना: , विविधभारतीया: भूत्वा एकसमये परसपरं विविधविषयेशु विचारणचर्चां कुर्वंती | विशेषत: भारतीयकर्नाटकशास्त्रीयसंगीतरसिकत्वे सल्लापोत्सुका: एतन्माध्यमेनैव प्रयासं कुर्वंतु इति प्रार्थये ||
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Rsachi
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#32 Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by Rsachi » 12 Nov 2012, 15:32

Thanks a lot, sir. I have noted the following corrections:
sallApa - masculine. mAdhyamEna - 3rd Vibhakti. Also other language suggestions.
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cmlover
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#33 Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by cmlover » 12 Nov 2012, 20:57

classicallover:
The word कठिनसाध्यं employed by Rsachi is a 3rd vibhakti tatpuruSha compound which dissolves as: कठिनॆन साध्यं = with difficulty possible.
You have resolved it as
कठिनोSसाध्यश्चेति = कठिनः असाध्यः च इति (difficult and impossible ..)
That changes the meaning entirely, if that was not intended by him...
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Rsachi
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#34 Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by Rsachi » 12 Nov 2012, 21:02

Cmlover, yes, I meant difficult but possible.
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cmlover
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#35 Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by cmlover » 13 Nov 2012, 01:12

classicallover
Pl don't take this critically..
You are suggesting that we use samskritam instead of Sanskrit.
Grammatically
सम् +कृत् = सङ् (change due to euphonics)+ (स्) कृत् = संस्कृत्
which is actully sanskrit as the hindi wallahs correctly nasalize.
The (स्) gets introduced for ornamentation (Panini 6.1.137-139)
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classicallover
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#36 Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by classicallover » 14 Nov 2012, 14:16

Already told that I had averaged out the various possibilities for the incongruent sentences by Rsachi. For ex., kaThinasadhyam was not matching with tadapi. Hence tathaapi was thought of, to mean, that inspite of the difficulty some people do talk, and other corrections.

kaThinasaadhyam is not delineated as you told. It would be a dwandwa karmadhaaraya samasa, as : कठिनं च तत् साध्यं च | For this there is a better contextual word : दुस्साध्यं |

The word Samskritam itself means, " well decorated one " . The " hindiwaallaas " nasalise and nationalise everything . But they pronounce as : सन् + स् + कृत् = सन्स्कृत् , which is wrong. This is due to the persian influence.

The way the word is synthesised is :

1 || सम् + कृतम् ; Apply Rule = सम् परिभ्यां करोतौ भूषणे सुट् कात् पूर्व: -->

2 || सम् +स् + कृतम् ; Apply Rule = समस् सुटि ( रु ) -->

3 || सर् + स् + कृतम् ; Apply Rule = अनुनासिका: पूर्वस्यतु वा ( रु ) -->

4 || सॅंर् + स् + कृतम् ; Apply Rule = अनुनासिकात् परो अनुस्वार: ; Alternately विकल्प: = same form is retained -->

5 || संर् + स् + कृतम् ; Apply Rule = कर् अवसानयो: विसर्जनीय: ; or सॅंर् + स् + कृतम् -->

6 || सं: + स् + कृतम् ; Apply Rule = विसर्जनीयस्य स: ; or सॅं: + स् + कृतम् -->

7 || संस् + स् + कृतम् ; Apply Rule = झरो झरी सवर्णे ; or सॅंस् + स् + कृतम् -->

8 || सं + स् + कृतम् ; or सॅं + स् + कृतम् -->

9 || संस्कृतम् or सॅँस्कृतम्

I was emphasising on the second chandrabindu version as Samskritam which can be better pronounced than the other.
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Rsachi
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#37 Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by Rsachi » 14 Nov 2012, 19:25

tadapi=despite that.
tathApi= Even then.
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cmlover
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#38 Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by cmlover » 14 Nov 2012, 21:11

classicallover:
Thanks for that elaborate derivation of the word संस्कृतं.
I could not locate your sutras for 3 and 5 in Panini. Rest is fine. Pl provide if you can.
I agree that the 'chandrabindu' version is the ultimate correct one. There is no equivalent in Roman for its vocalisation! Ofcourse the vedic vocalisation is totally different...
Right or wrong the westerners have picked up the word from the Northerners (Hindi) and use it currently as Sanskrit.
The Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanskrit
does support your derivation but not the usage!
Similar problem arises in regard to Tamil which is artificially written as Tamizh by some!
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vasanthakokilam
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#39 Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by vasanthakokilam » 14 Nov 2012, 21:22

Can that derivation be explained in English? That is fascinating.
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cmlover
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#40 Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by cmlover » 14 Nov 2012, 21:38

Rsachi
The word अपि when compounded with other words has different meanings (Refer Apte's dictionary). One of the meaning is 'even'.
Thus तद् + अपि = तदपि would mean 'even that' or 'so being'
तथा + अपि = तथापि would be 'even in that manner'
In either case I don't see any problem in the usage.

I disagree with classicallover dissolving कठिनसाध्यं as a dwandwa compound which is not what you intended. That can be dissolved as a tatpuruSha or dwandwa and there is ambiguity which is inherent in the sanskrit language. For example the famous vedic story (Satapatha Brahmana) of Vritra's father getting his son killed by invoking इंद्रशत्रुर्वधस्व. Equiviocation is rampant in sanskrit which of course adds to its literary beauty. Hence IMHO it is inappropriate to be used as a Computer programming language where precision is essential!
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cmlover
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#41 Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by cmlover » 14 Nov 2012, 21:40

VK
Those Paninian rules are so complex that it is claimed that he killed the language :D
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Rsachi
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#42 Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by Rsachi » 14 Nov 2012, 21:49

I find, to my understanding, no problem with either tadapi or kaThinasAdhyam.
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classicallover
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#43 Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by classicallover » 15 Nov 2012, 11:58

Cml's jeering opinion has no effect on the application of Samskritam. ;) Inspite of the so-called complexity, it has been found to have many specifics which are sufficient for programming. Words like api are called avyayas and combine with other shabdas & avyayas to give a plethora of meanings.

Why should we consider the foreigner's opinion as standard regarding usage or history of the culture ? They still believe that Macaulay's principles were the most sacred ones.
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srkris
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#44 Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by srkris » 06 Dec 2013, 22:39

An introduction for those aspiring to start from scratch - http://sanskritdocuments.org/learning_t ... ner-rm.pdf
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cmlover
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#45 Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by cmlover » 07 Dec 2013, 02:02

A simple but clearly written introductory manual!
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thanjavooran
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#46 Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by thanjavooran » 03 Nov 2017, 10:25

A share
Sorry for posting this in Tamil


Pada chedanam


>> லக்ஷ்மீ அஷ்டோத்தரம் - ஒரு திருத்தம் <<

தமிழில் ஒரு பழமொழி உண்டு - “எழுதினவன் ஏட்டை கெடுத்தான்”

இது எதற்கு பொருந்துகிறதோ இல்லையோ லக்ஷ்மீ அஷ்டோத்தர சத நாமாவளிக்கு பொருந்துகிறது. முதல் நபர் செய்த தவறை நம்மில் பலரும் தொடர்ந்து கொண்டே இருக்கிறோம்.

இந்த கட்டுரையைப் படித்துவிட்டு முதல் வேலையாக உங்கள் புத்தகங்களில் திருத்தம் செய்து கொள்ளுங்கள்.

லக்ஷ்மி அஷ்டோத்தரத்துக்கு செல்லும் முன் ஒரு அடிப்படை விஷயத்தை விளக்குகிறேன்.

எந்த ஒரு அஷ்டோத்தரமோ ஸஹஸ்ரநாமமோ முதலில் ஸ்தோத்ர வடிவில் ச்லோகங்களாகவே இருக்கும் - பின்னர் இதனை நாமாக்களாக அர்ச்சனைக்காக பிரிப்பது வழக்கம்.

உதாரணமாக

விஷ்ணு ஸஹஸ்ரநாம ஸ்தோத்ரம்

“விச்வம் விஷ்ணுர் வஷட்காரோ....” என்று தான் துவங்குகிறது. இதனைப் பிரித்து,
ஓம் விச்வஸ்மை நம:
ஓம் விஷ்ணவே நம:
ஓம் வஷட்காராய நம:  என்று அர்ச்சனை செய்கிறோம்

அதே போல லக்ஷ்மீ அஷ்டோத்தர சத நாமாவளி

ப்ரக்ருதீம் விக்ருதீம் வித்யாம் ஸர்வபூதஹிதப்ரதாம்... என்று துவங்குகிறது.

இதனை
ஓம் ப்ரக்ருத்யை நம:
ஓம் விக்ருத்யை நம:
ஓம் ஸர்வ பூதஹித ப்ரதாயை நம:

என்று பிரிக்கிறோம்.

இனி முக்கியமான பகுதிக்கு வருவோம்.

லக்ஷ்மீ அஷ்டோத்தர சத நாம ஸ்தோத்ரத்தின் மூன்றாவது ச்லோகம் :

அதிதிம் ச திதிம் தீப்தாம் வசுதாம் வசுதாரிணீம்
நமாமி கமலாம் காந்தாம் காமாக்ஷீம் க்ரோதசம்பவாம்

இதனை ,

ஓம் அதித்யை நம:
ஓம் தித்யை நம:
ஓம் தீப்தாயை நம:
ஓம் வசுதாயை நம:
ஓம் வசுதாரிண்யை நம:
ஓம் கமலாயை நம:
ஓம் காந்தாயை நம:
ஓம் காமாக்ஷ்யை நம:
ஓம் க்ரோத ஸம்பவாயை நம:

என்றே 90% புத்தகங்கள் காட்டுகிறது.

கமலா - தாமரையில் வீற்றிருக்கும் மஹாலக்ஷ்மீ
காந்தா -(விஷ்ணுவின்) மனைவி
காமாக்ஷி - அழகிய கண்களை உடையவள்

இது வரை சரி; அடுத்த நாமா ?

க்ரோத ஸம்பவாயை - கோபத்தோடு உதித்தவள் அல்லது கோபத்தினால் உதித்தவள்.

இது சரியாக பொருந்தவில்லையே...

இப்படி அர்ச்சனை செய்வது சரியாகுமா? லக்ஷ்மிக்கே பிடிக்குமா?

1935ல் வெளிவந்த புத்தகங்களில் நாமா சரியாகவே பிரிக்கப்பட்டுள்ளது. அதன் பின்னர் வந்தவர்கள், யாரோ ஒருவர் அறியாமல் பதம் பிரித்து ”க்ரோத ஸம்பவா” என அச்சிடப்போக, பின்னாளில் வந்தவர்கள் யாருமே அதை சரிபார்க்காமல் அப்படியே அச்சிடுகிறார்கள். இன்று கிட்டத்தட்ட எல்லா புத்த்கங்களிலும் இணையத்திலும் அப்படியே தான் இருக்கிறது.

லக்ஷ்மீ அஷ்டோத்தரம் கொண்டு அர்ச்சனை செய்பவர்க்கு லக்ஷ்மீ கடாக்ஷம் உண்டாகும், ஐச்வர்யம் பெருகும். ஆனால் மக்கள் பலரும் தாங்கள் கஷ்டப்படுவதாக புலம்புவதைப் பார்க்கும் போது - இது போன்று தவறுகள் இருப்பதைக் காண முடிகிறது.

நம்மை யாராவது “சிடுமூஞ்சி” என்றால் நாம் சந்தோஷப்படுவோமா? ஆனால் மஹாலக்ஷ்மியை இப்படி தவறாக அழைத்தால் பூர்ணமாக அனுக்ரஹம் எப்படி கிட்டும் ?

இனி சரியான பாடத்துக்கு வருவோம்

ஓம் கமலாயை நம:
ஓம் காந்தாயை நம:
ஓம் காமாயை நம:
ஓம் க்ஷீரோத ஸம்பவாயை நம:

காமாயை - ஆசையின் வடிவானவளே
க்ஷீரோத ஸம்பவாயை - பாற்கடலில் உதித்தவளே

இது அம்ருத மதன காலத்தில் பாற்கடலில் இருந்து மஹாலக்ஷ்மி உதித்தாள் எனும் புராணத்துக்கு இசைந்து அமைகிறது.

வாசகர்கள் அனைவரும் இனி மேல் நாமாக்களை திருத்திக் கொண்டு மஹாலக்ஷ்மியின் பூர்ண கடாக்ஷத்துக்கு பாத்திரமாகுங்கள்.
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RSR
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#47 Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by RSR » 07 Nov 2017, 17:00

@46
thanjavooran » 03 Nov 2017, 10:25 ...
NICE POST SIR
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I have a simple project in mind.
I want to list nearly 1000 nouns ( of sanskrit origin), commonly used in thamizh.
I will give the word in thamizh and approximate english meaning.
I want to have the exact sanskrit word in devanagari script.
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I want to place these in a table form
thamizh, english, sanskrit ( devanagari), sanskrit ( english-transliteration)
example
புஷ்பம் கர்வம்,கௌரவம்,பாண்டித்யம்,மௌனம்,வீரம்,சாதுர்யம்,சாத்வீகம்,பூர்ணம்
flower,pride,dignity, scholarship, silence, courage, cleverness, goodness, fullness etc.
Can you please guide me in my effort?
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Sachi_R
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#48 Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by Sachi_R » 07 Nov 2017, 18:40

RSR,
I can be of service. Please type in English the Samskrita word and its rough meaning as you know it.
I shall compile the correct Devanagari script for it and give you the dictionary meaning, in an Excel table.
I can host it as an editable file in Google Drive.
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RSR
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#49 Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by RSR » 07 Nov 2017, 22:23

Respected Sachi Sir, Thank you. .I am proceeding to create the website page. right now.
I will be typing the thamizh words as they come to my mind . Not in any particular order. May I know if you can read thamizh..( just short words?) My aim is to get the correct pronunciation in sanskrit for great many words commonly used/ spoken by thamizh people and even writers . Sri.Shankarank can join and help us.
https://sites.google.com/site/rsrtrials ... mizh-words
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thanjavooran
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#50 Re: Let us learn some Sanskrit

Post by thanjavooran » 08 Nov 2017, 07:51

RSR,
Very nice. Sachi avl will further enlighten us with his contributions on this.
Thanjavooran
08 11 2017
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