Subbudu (PV Subramaniam)

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srkris
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#26

Post by srkris » 21 Jan 2010, 00:46

Yes I did, and that made me query his name in Wikipedia, and found this link there. I checked this thread and the link was not given, so I posted it here.

So your translation was the inspiration for me to hunt this link down. :)
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venkatakailasam
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#27 Re: Subbudu (PV Subramaniam)

Post by venkatakailasam » 15 Feb 2014, 08:49

Considered as wielder of an acid pen!!

" In a career that spanned more than 50 years, Subbudu's acerbic wit and deep knowledge of music made many readers look forward to his views. But he also made many enemies. A board saying “Dogs and Subbudu not allowed,” was hung outside the Madras Music Academy in Chennai during the 1980s. An example of his commenting is what Subbudu said about the doyen of Karnatic Music, Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer: “Even the dreaded Emergency has come to an end, but there seems to be no end of Semmangudi” .

Madras Music Academy convened an emergency meeting to condemn Subbudu and reaffirm their faith in the greatness of Semmangudi. ( wiki http://en.wikipedia.org )/wiki/Subbudu
I am not sure to what extent the above is true..

There is a book on his ' Isai Thukkada' in tamil brought by
Kanmani creative waves, 92, TSV Koil street, Mylopore..

There is a mention about ' Karunanidhiyum Karnataka Isayum' in which he had given glowing tributes of Karunanidhi's knowledge of the various aspects of carnatic music .
If you are able to get the book , it is worth reading...
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venkatakailasam
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#29 Re: Subbudu (PV Subramaniam)

Post by venkatakailasam » 17 Feb 2014, 06:58

Subbudu is known for his piercing, vitriolic and sarcastic comments on musicians. He is a man who knows no fear (he would even criticise Saint Thyaragaraja) .

The important distinction between Subbudu and critic-joe was his sense of humor. He used humor with telling effect and this increased the 'punch' of his review. Regardless of the iconic status of the artist under question, Subbudu will tear apart a performance if he feels it doesn't adhere to grammar...

The 'subbudu is in the concert hall' scare was so popular that dancers and music artists from Delhi to Madras shivered in front him. Even the normally calm K.J Yesudas, who was criticised by Subbudu for merely showing up in concerts without adequate preparation, refuses to sing in Subbudu's presence out of sheer hatred..

M.Balamurali Krishna just did alapaana for the entire duration of the performance because someone in the audience made some kind of disturbing noise). It seems that the MBK Vs Subbudu fight led to MBK's refusal to perform in Madras Music Academy for some time.
subbudu was at his insulting best was the pithy review of Rahman's 'ennavale' song in Kadhalan. The song was suspected to be based on 'Kedaram' raagam by some (while some accused it of having traces of sankarabharanam). Subbudu is his own imitable style called the song as "kedarathukku Sedaram" (damage to Raag Kedar)...

The Subbudu phenomena started when he sent a review of Sathur Subramaniam's rendition of "Ni irunga enil" (in Atana). Subbudu first tore into the singer's lack of respect for lyrics and his failure to bring out the emotional essense of the song....

Kalki, while calling him adhigaprasangi, encouraged his sense of humor. While it all started in humor, Subbudu was actually beaten up in Thiruvaiyaar, and was even sued for his severe criticism. Not that Subbudu didn't ask for it. He was bold enough to criticise works of many eminent singers right from Muthusami Dikshithar to Madurai Mani Iyer. Nobody was sacred to him. Not only did he make fun of MD Ramanathan's gimmicks and funny gestures while singing, but he was also one of the initial people to point out the eroticism in certain "devotional songs" and made fun of people who sang them for religious purposes. I can't imagine how his blunt comments like "suttralavai kuraithal ulagam sutralam" (he asks a dancer to slim down a lot) might've affected an artist. But however, harsh he has been, one cannot fault him for being incorrect (except for the popular instance where he apologized for misinterpreting Dikshithar's Gamanashrama raaga as nishagam).

The Subbudu phenomena started when he sent a review of Sathur Subramaniam's rendition of "Ni irunga enil" (in Atana). Subbudu first tore into the singer's lack of respect for lyrics and his failure to bring out the emotional essense of the song. He said something like "He sings as if he is threatening a person sitting on tree-top to come down". Subbudu added "come down or I'll break your leg - is how the tone of the song goes". Kalki, while calling him adhigaprasangi, encouraged his sense of humor. While it all started in humor, Subbudu was actually beaten up in Thiruvaiyaar, and was even sued for his severe criticism. Not that Subbudu didn't ask for it. He was bold enough to criticise works of many eminent singers right from Muthusami Dikshithar to Madurai Mani Iyer. Nobody was sacred to him. Not only did he make fun of MD Ramanathan's gimmicks and funny gestures while singing, but he was also one of the initial people to point out the eroticism in certain "devotional songs" and made fun of people who sang them for religious purposes. I can't imagine how his blunt comments like "suttralavai kuraithal ulagam sutralam" (he asks a dancer to slim down a lot) might've affected an artist. But however, harsh he has been, one cannot fault him for being incorrect (except for the popular instance where he apologized for misinterpreting Dikshithar's Gamanashrama raaga as nishagam). My father ( a big Subbudu hater and my chief source of Subbudu knowledge) disliked subbudu for destroying the career of many young and upcoming artists. His criticisms were so sharp that it destroyed the confidence of young artists. But at the same time he had a keen eye on talent and if he saw talent in young artists he encouraged them no end. I like subbudu. I think India needs a person like him. He gives character and definition for one end of the spectrum. The closest he has come to "apologizing" for his profession was when he said "Kaaram irunthaalam Krodham illai".

In an era where carnatic music was either Sanskrit or Telugu, Subbudu supported Kalki's call for more Tamil based songs. He thought Jugalbandhis were nonsense. He was particularly unimpressed when second-rate musicians from the North were being honored unnecessarily just because they sang Hindustani music. While he bluntly criticised those musicians for their mediocrity in the columns he wrote in Delhi papers, he had this to say about Hindustani Vs Carnatic Music - " I am also listening Hindustani music from my birth. I am also commenting upon them in Delhi papers. I am writing without being afraid of any one. In fact, there is nothing great in Hindustani music apart from the purity of the shruti. It is because of the lack of purity of shruti that South Indian music is not perhaps appreciated in the North. Further in Hindustani music, every artist specializes in specific aspect – khayal, dhrupad, thapa, thumri etc. So far as rhythm (tala) is concerned, they are still at an elementary level.".
One of the reasons why I liked Subbudu was the way he strived to help artists like M.L.Vasanthakumari, lyricists Papanasam Sivan earn recognition in a larger setting. The way he appreciates Sudha Ragunathan here (appreciation such as this is quite rare from Subbudu), is indicative of his respect for MLV. I suspect that there will be no replacement for Subbudu although there will be a lot of wannabes. It is quite sad that such a 'character' would be lost forever in the Indian arts scene.

Based on : http://bejoolean01.blogspot.in/2007/04/subbudu.html


Also SEE http://www.tribuneindia.com/2007/200704 ... /main6.htm
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RaviSri
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#30 Re: Subbudu (PV Subramaniam)

Post by RaviSri » 18 Feb 2014, 13:40

Code: Select all

except for the popular instance where he apologized for misinterpreting Dikshithar's Gamanashrama raaga as nishaga
There is no composition of Dikshitar in Gamanasrama and there is no raga called 'nishaga'.
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venkatakailasam
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#31 Re: Subbudu (PV Subramaniam)

Post by venkatakailasam » 18 Feb 2014, 17:09

Gamanashrama (pronounced gamanāshrama[1]) is a rāgam in Carnatic music (musical scale of South Indian classical music). It is the 53rd Melakarta rāgam in the 72 melakarta rāgam system of Carnatic music.

It is called Gamakakriya in Muthuswami Dikshitar school of Carnatic music...Wiki..( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamanashrama)

The songs in Gamakakriya by MD :
EkAmranAthaM gamakakriyA
kAsi-visAlAkSIM gamakakriyA
navaratnamAlinIM gamakakriyA
It would appear that he had wrongly categorized the above as NiSadaM and not 'nishaga' as stated in his post "Prevention is better than to treat "
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kittappa
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#32 Re: Subbudu (PV Subramaniam)

Post by kittappa » 18 Feb 2014, 19:29

What happened to 'mInAkShi mEmudam dEhi' in Gamakakriya? MD did not compose it, is it?

niShada is by the way, the 60 melakarta in the Venkatamakshi scheme in which MD has composed 'niShadAdi'. Its equivalent in the prevalent system is nItimati.
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venkatakailasam
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#33 Re: Subbudu (PV Subramaniam)

Post by venkatakailasam » 19 Feb 2014, 06:39

Shri kittappa...
My list is not exhaustive..I included what had come to my mind..
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shankarank
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#34 Re: Subbudu (PV Subramaniam)

Post by shankarank » 11 Jan 2016, 10:43

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vilomachapu
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#35 Re: Subbudu (PV Subramaniam)

Post by vilomachapu » 12 Jan 2016, 18:05

But however, harsh he has been, one cannot fault him for being incorrect (except for the popular instance where he apologized for misinterpreting Dikshithar's Gamanashrama raaga as nishagam).

Subbudu has time and again put his foot in his mouth. One instance where he showed his ajnyaanam was when he said that Semmangudi was singing the DNS prayoga in Reetigaula and that the raga did not admit of it. The next day Semmangudi at the Music Academy sang and showed how DNS occurred in Reetigaula and also that Veena Kuppayyar's varnam also had this prayoga. Subbudu was not so knowledgeable as he pretended.
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nativespecialseo
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#36 Re: Subbudu (PV Subramaniam)

Post by nativespecialseo » 13 Jan 2016, 13:01

P. V. Subramaniam, popularly known as Subbudu, was one of the most important dance and music critics of India. He was born on 27 March 1917, and died in New Delhi on 29 March 2007.
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cacm
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#37 Re: Subbudu (PV Subramaniam)

Post by cacm » 23 Feb 2016, 23:01

vilomachapu wrote:But however, harsh he has been, one cannot fault him for being incorrect (except for the popular instance where he apologized for misinterpreting Dikshithar's Gamanashrama raaga as nishagam).
Subbudu has time and again put his foot in his mouth. One instance where he showed his ajnyaanam was when he said that Semmangudi was singing the DNS prayoga in Reetigaula and that the raga did not admit of it. The next day Semmangudi at the Music Academy sang and showed how DNS occurred in Reetigaula and also that Veena Kuppayyar's varnam also had this prayoga. Subbudu was not so knowledgeable as he pretended.
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ON. HE WAS SEMI-KNOWLEDGEABLE DEMAGOGUE WHO IS BEING GIVEN MORE CREDIT THAN HE DESERVES. A NEGATIVE PERSON MOSTLY....VKV
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vilomachapu
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#38 Re: Subbudu (PV Subramaniam)

Post by vilomachapu » 25 Feb 2016, 18:00

Subbudu also attacked Dikshitar for not having "brahmin disciples", saying he mostly had disciples who were non-brahmins, as if that were a sin. He further said that Thyagaraja was a superior composer since he had all brahmin disciples. And that Thyagaraja wrote the gaula pancharatnam to spite Dikshitar. Therein Thyagaraja says that, "I have taught women and shudras" (teliyani natavita shudrula vanitalu). Since Tyagaraja did not have women or non-brahmin disciples, Subbudu said, Thyagaraja was indirectly attacking Dikshitar who had non-brahmin and women disciples. Subbudu by saying such ridiculous things was not only a fool but also a criminal.

Subbudu also said that since Dikshitar did not compose any song in Karaharapriya, he was an inferior composer. Subbudu did not even know that Karaharapriya was a mere scale before the times of the Trinity and it was only Thyagaraja who gave flesh and blood to the raga. Even Shyama Sastri did not compose in Karaharapriya. This was the criminal who terrorised the musicians for more than half a century with his half baked knowledge. I dont blame the criminal but the musicians. They should have ignored the buffoon or thrashed him in Chennai like the Tanjoreans did in Tiruvaiyyaru once.
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cacm
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#39 Re: Subbudu (PV Subramaniam)

Post by cacm » 25 Feb 2016, 20:47

[quote="vilomachapu"]Subbudu also attacked Dikshitar for not having "brahmin disciples", saying he mostly had disciples who were non-brahmins, as if that were a sin. He further said that Thyagaraja was a superior composer since he had all brahmin disciples. And that Thyagaraja wrote the gaula pancharatnam to spite Dikshitar. Therein Thyagaraja says that, "I have taught women and shudras" (teliyani natavita shudrula vanitalu). Since Tyagaraja did not have women or non-brahmin disciples, Subbudu said, Thyagaraja was indirectly attacking Dikshitar who had non-brahmin and women disciples. Subbudu by saying such ridiculous things was not only a fool but also a criminal.

Subbudu also said that since Dikshitar did not compose any song in Karaharapriya, he was an inferior composer. Subbudu did not even know that Karaharapriya was a mere scale before the times of the Trinity and it was only Thyagaraja who gave flesh and blood to the raga. Even Shyama Sastri did not compose in Karaharapriya. This was the criminal who terrorised the musicians for more than half a century with his half baked knowledge. I dont blame the criminal but the musicians. They should have ignored the buffoon or thrashed him in Chennai like the Tanjoreans did in Tiruvaiyyaru once.

THANKS FOR EXPOSING THE FRAUD MASQUERADING AS CRITIC & EXPERT BRINGING EVERYTHING TO HIS TRASH LEVEL.VKV
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#40 Re: Subbudu (PV Subramaniam)

Post by Ramasubramanian M.K » 27 Feb 2016, 04:15

Re: Vilomachapu's post on the DNS prayogam for Reethigowla--I am confused--there is no NI after Dha in the Arohanam as far as my knowledge of the kris in Reethigowla --in the avarohanam Sa Ni Dha appears(Sa Ni Dha ma ga Ma pa ma ga ri sa-)-in the arohanam NiNi Sa is the most popular prayogam as far as my knowledge goes. Will somebody clarify which kriti has the Dha Ni Sa prayogam?

Thanks.
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vilomachapu
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#41 Re: Subbudu (PV Subramaniam)

Post by vilomachapu » 27 Feb 2016, 17:51

DNS prayoga is a rare prayoga in Reetigaula. It can occur only once. It is there in Veena Kuppayyar's varnam. I have heard someone saying that the prayoga occurs in the Dhanammal family's version of 'janani ninuvina'. I don't know in whcih other song this prayoga occurs.

Anyway Semmangudi sang it in his concert at the Music Academy and also after Subbudu's review appeared in the next morning's Dinamani and Indian Express, he sang it the prayoga that day at the Expert Commitee meeting at MA after a lecdem was over. One of Vedavalli's students has told me that Vedavalli also is of the opinion that DNS prayoga occurs in Reetigaula.
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SrinathK
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#42 Re: Subbudu (PV Subramaniam)

Post by SrinathK » 12 May 2016, 08:12

It comes here in phrases like : S, N, D, DNS, NDM, \
or N, N, ND,N SR,S ND, N, P, D (S)N, D M, G, M, P D (P) D, M
or maybe even in SS ND,N S instead of SN NP, NN S

It basically comes due to the underlying gamakas. When swaras begin to "dissolve" into their underlying gamaka phrases, certain combinations become apparent that don't sound right from the notes used in them, but with the gamaka they do.

The exaggerated kampita on P D2, S in Mukhari is a similar lost phrase (e.g Emani nE by T Brinda), now replaced by P N NDD, S. But when you peer into the gamakas, you realize the phrase that serves as the progenitor of both.
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shankarank
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#43 Re: Subbudu (PV Subramaniam)

Post by shankarank » 14 May 2016, 23:47

I agree that the musicians should have thrashed him ( not physically but intellectually). But the reason he flourished was because the musicians themselves were not on solid ground on many aspects (may be just on grammer - but then nahi nahi rakshati dukkrinkaraNE) and they were busy playing their games.

I take what I see valuable from him - especially how he expresses the concept of AnmIga - when our current crop of musicians talk as though they don't know anything about our culture!
Last edited by shankarank on 15 May 2016, 08:59, edited 1 time in total.
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shankarank
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#44 Re: Subbudu (PV Subramaniam)

Post by shankarank » 15 May 2016, 00:47

vilomachapu wrote:They should have ignored the buffoon or thrashed him in Chennai like the Tanjoreans did in Tiruvaiyyaru once.
I have heard once what he may have said that earned him their wrath. Something to this effect:
Once upon a time EVEN the Taxi drivers and rikshaw pullers knew sangeetham in Tanjore - now it seems only the rickshaw pullers and taxi drivers may know better sangeetham
His sentiments must be re-jigged and improvised for the times.

A time lapse video of all youtube uploads of pancaratnam renditions of different era will show the loss of verve. When Ariyakudi's disciples were singing - along with the next gen etc - there was indeed a gambiram. I even can put up with lack of coordination sometimes - especially that one where Brindamma raises her finger in admonition of a missed sangati by the male musicians..

By the time there was TM Krishna was leading once - even though it was a neat presentation it sounded like an injured or tired elephant.

I see that things are getting back to normal gait now a days that he is not there!
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shankarank
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#45 Re: Subbudu (PV Subramaniam)

Post by shankarank » 16 May 2016, 00:37

vilomachapu wrote:Subbudu also attacked Dikshitar for not having "brahmin disciples", saying he mostly had disciples who were non-brahmins, as if that were a sin. Subbudu also said that since Dikshitar did not compose any song in Karaharapriya, he was an inferior composer.
Apparently he received lot of brick bat letters and made it a book material and published it even! :lol:

That is more efficient than a painstaking effort by a Phd. going around helplessly seeking information from what had become a non-cooperative , cynical and dismissive society - that loves sensationalism and often needs that to be woken up! :twisted:
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