MS & Radha - Saga of Steadfast Devotion

Books on Carnatic Music and those for / by / on musicians.
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arasi
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Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Post by arasi »

A good one, Cienu.
How true, those last lines! MS was a phenomenon, not a mere shooting star which streaked across the sky but is a staying wonder. The credit for this larger than life aspect of hers was the work of her husband who was dedicated to the cause of bringing out the best in his wife and in showcasing her. Radha, except for the times when she was very sick, was always there by her mother's side on the stage--a crescent moon on the firmament that was her mother, as the writers say. MS more than earned the love of her daughters and that of the family; the world too--not merely by the magic of her music but by her very being.
Her story is a story which would find a place in history. Her magnanimity and her music couldn't but enlist ardent admirers for her--and a family whose love for her knows no end...

cmlover
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Post by cmlover »

Thanks Cienu

While this book is a treasure-house of information on MS there is missing information on the 'active half' of MS (I mean Sadasivam here). We ought to know more about Sadasivam and his efforts which let the lotus called MS to bloom. Perhaps Gowri and Radha could recapture their memories of this great man (who is also a great patriot) and bring back memories of his life. Many of us know nothing except know him as 'kalki sadashivam'. There is no book on him, but he is entitled to be remembered by all lovers of CM, indeed by all lovers of Tamil (since he was the founder of Kalki). Do entreat the concerned to write a book on him before the recollections start fading. This is my humble personal/public request. Thank you!

Ramasubramanian M.K
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Post by Ramasubramanian M.K »

Dear CMlover: Could not resist jumping into the fray re; your interest in knowing about Mr.Sadasivam.I think I can speak with certainty(ofcourse I am biased).

First of all,my mother and MS Mami were friends for over 60 years and Mama and my Dad were equally friendly. If I say I owe what I am today to Mama that would not be an exaggeration. My mother and MS mami became friends when I was hardly three years old in Calcutta where mami,Mama and Radha(all this I have heard from my mother umpteen number of times so that readers should not think I was so clairvoyant @ 3 years had come for shooting for the movie Savithri.Radha was about 7 years old and Mami and mama used to leave her with my mother for baby-sitting..The shooting sometimes would last several hours late into the evening. But no matter how late,Mami used to insist on picking up a fast asleep Radha and take her home which was not too far from where we lived in Calcutta--my mother would have cooked for Mami and Mama in view of the late return--they would eat,pick up Radha and take her home--Mami's parting words would be thanks and also a gentle admonition about the amount of food left over(my mother was always a generous cook and was constantly afraid that she might run out of food!!),and how wasteful that practice is given the meager salary of my father(at that time my father was an entry-level economic journalist for an Finance weekly(the equivalent of BARRON's in those days)and having to take care of two young children and how my mother should be more thrifty--at that time my mother was 21 and Mami was 24. Getting back to the radha-MS relationship Mami would never bear to be separated from radha and Radha was equaly affectionate towrads Mami . Anyway sorry for the digression--this is about Mama.
I used to call Mama MS Mama in those days --an appendage that most -husbands of celebrities would not relish! But Mama always laughed it off and every time whenever he was in Company and I happened to pass by he would introduce me as the First person to call him MS Mama--much to my embarassment--he did this when I was 11 years old before Rajaji much to my chagrin.

Seriously though Mama took a liking for me and always used the opportunity to talk to me about hard work,loyalty,truthfulness fairness--qualities that he lived by- he was extraordinarily trustful but when the trust is breached watch out!! That person is banned for life for ever--one such person who had betrayed him tried to atone and get back to Mama,mama would instruct the Gorkha not to let the person in the premises--if he did the Gorkha would be fired.
he used to tell me of his early struggles--he was part of a large family and the family burden fell on him--how at an young age he decided to go to Madras with the just amount of rly fare in his pocket.he joined the Feedom movement and always talked about how to market Khadi--while everybody was exhorting from an patriotic angle Mama was the consummate marketer--the greatest Ad man I have known-he boosted Khadi sales--

To be continued---

VK RAMAN
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Post by VK RAMAN »

Very very emotional and exciting story - miga aavaludan kaathiruppom!

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

Excellent. Continue the MS mama side of the story which appears quite interesting.. Tell us how he got started with kalki and the relationships with Rajaji etc., Thank you...

Ramasubramanian M.K
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Joined: 05 May 2009, 08:33

Post by Ramasubramanian M.K »

MS Mama saga(Contd),
Mama was passionate about the freedom movement,boldly singing Bharathiyar songs(although I have never heard him sing,I have had family members tell me that Mama had a good voice and was delivered with passion).In TJS George's book he goes into details re; the ambivalence that MS Mami's mother had about Sadasivam--a person with no steady job,courting arrest frequently,how is he going to support a wife whose star was truly in the ascendant as a meteor and how her career is going to be impaired etc etc==all legitimate worries but Mama was undeterred--this was one quality I admired in Mama every time he encountered an insurmountable obstacle--to him obstacles existed only to be surmounted and ignored. He was always confident he would prevail--he was very proud and fond of narrating the following story about his stint with Ananda Vikatan(a position in sales/advertising that he had to take up to support his family despite the fact that he did not much care for Vasan's editorial philosophy in the thirties steering clear from all political leanings/shades). Vasan offered him a job at Rs.75 permonth,whereas Mama boldly asked for Rs.150 per month and followed it up with a challenge that he would increase the Ad revenues significantly enough in 6 months and if he failed to deliver Vasan could fire him. Imagine his "cheek" struggling to support a large family and instead of playing it safe and subservient,he goes aggressive--so much confidence he had in his own abilities.Vasan ofcourse a shrewd business man would not go for it and stuck to his guns.It was in the Vikatan that mama made friends with Kalki who was the Editor of Vikatan .Kalki Mama was largely responsible for the Editorials,the Carnatic Music reviews under the pen name Karnatakam . I have also heard that thro Rajaji and the freedom movement he had befriended Kalki and they served several jail terms together. It must be mentioned that everyone of his colleagues and contemporaries who stood shoulder-to-shoulder in the freedom movement were amply rewarded thro Mama's large-heartedness and some of them were permanent fixtures in the Kalki gardens--their families children's weddings,MS mami would sing and so on. So whenever mama delivered a "sermon' about gratitude,loyalty I never got tired of listening because he "lived" it every minute of his life. Likewise when Mami was growing up in madurai and the good samaritans that were very protective of Mami were all helped by Mama later on financially.
The 'start-up" of Kalki.
Mama was not happy in the Vikatan and was mulling the idea of starting his own weekly and he knew he could coax Kalki mama to join him- the brilliant planner that he was, he raised money thro films(he realised that MS Mami's concerts or royalties from the records alone would not be sufficient--mind you throughout these struggles--his tenacious effort to overcome MS Mami's mother's reservations,his obligations to his large family of nephews and nieces--some of whom had lost their parents or other difficulties--none of these deflected him from his freedom movement efforts,need to start a vehicle like Kalki,need to raise money etc. Sakunthalai was a success and helped him raise some money. I still have in our family archives a letter written by mama in 1941 which was brief and terse(which I can never be as forum readers may have already noticed!!!)
Dear Mahadevan: By God's grace we are going to start Kalki Magazine and I want you to join as a charter subscriber for a grand sum of Rs.3 per year. By the end of this month I expect you to get 10 more subscribers.regards to Chinnani(my mother's name)
Sd. T.Sadasivam. needless to say my father managed to get 12 subscriptions with great difficulty--in those days most of the Tamilians in Calcutta were either steno typists or low=level clerks making Rs 60 to Rs. 75 permonth so that you can imagine the environment. Ofcourse it was more due to the need to respond to a friend's call than any enduring faith in Mama's business acumen
which none in my family could claim!!
My father and mama got along well because both were extremely action-oriented,task-focussed obsessive people. Once when my father had visited Mama at the kalki gardens --I think in the Sixties-- Mama was to receive Lord Harwood== cousin of Queen Elizabeth on his visit to Madras in a couple of days later.he handed my father a book written by Lord Harwood which Mama had been given but Mama did not have the time to read it and wanted my father to write a review. My father told me(he has referred to this incident in his Book Musings on Music and Musicians released in Madras in 2003 on the occasion of my father's 90th birthday) that he turned the review in within 24 hours and Mama was after perusing it sent to Lord Harwood without any editing--so much confidence he had in my father's penmanship--Mind you Mama was no slouch when it came to writing--even as late as in his eighties his letters were terse.to the point,no beating around the bush etc. Ofcourse Mama had a fiery temper and if any draft commissioned by him was too flawed
he would go on a frenzy(the beuty of it was Mama would use a high-pitched voice when angry but never an expletive or offcolor word to humiliate the person at the receiving end. An example;

Once in the late Fifties, there was a concert in triplicane of MS Mami,where one of the regular accompaniments(name not mentioned here) on the mridangam did not play to mama's liking(not TKM)/. This person was a loyal accompanist and very well liked by mama normally. When we all returned to kalki gardens (including the /Mridangam/ artist) in two cars--with Mami Mama in the earlier car. I was in the second car with the accompaniments. As the mridangam artist and myself were slowly climbing the stairs, we saw Mama at the top of the stairs (inwardly seething but outwardly calm) which we thought was unusual. When we reached the top of the stairs,Mama addresses the Mridangam Vidwan in this manner;
"(name)ju,
Nee Innikku vachichai paru_anda vashippukku nee anda Mridangathai eduthundu marina Beach kku poi mridangathai samudrathile pottuttu neeyum samudrathile vizhundud!!!(translation: the way you played today you should have gone to marina Beach- ,dumped the Mridangam into the Bay of Bengal and you should have drowned yourself in it!!-readers not familiar with Madras should know that triplicane is very close to marina Beach!!__)

More later!!

rajeshnat
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:04

Post by rajeshnat »

MKR sir
Can you also tell how shri sadashivam plans MS amma's concert , I have heard few anecdotes where with sign language where sadAshivam instructs MS.

Keep them coming , they are lovely. Just one feedback sir, give some whitespaces of one or two lines between your paragraphs That will give a perfect ms amma finish .

s_hari
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Joined: 20 May 2007, 18:45

Post by s_hari »

Ramasubramaniam Sir - please continue to write about these wonderful incidents. As rajesh wrote, i am also keen to know more about sadasivam mama involvement in music.

-hari

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

simply fascinating RMK. We know of Sadasivam's business acumen and ability to take risks. I have been told and I think rightly so that were it not for Sadasivam there would not have been an MS. Just as there would not have been a KBS were it not for SGK! Similarly we would not have had DKP were it not for the incentives of Easwaran. Thus there was a man behind every CM female star we had in those MCP ( :) golden days :) And the sad part for CM is that NCV did not have such a man behind!
Now we also know that Sadasivam was also behind the proverbial munificense of MS. Tell us some more if you know about the relationship between Sadasivam and Kalki Krishnamurthy. They were the main architechts of MS. Also tell us how MS happened to marry Sadasivam in spite of the resistance of Shanmugavadivu who apparently was a tough woman. Will also be grateful to know of Sadasivam's relationship with PeriyavaaL whose blessings indeed was the greatest gift MS ever received in her life.

Continue the stories at your leisure as you have an eager appreciative audience at this Forum.... and thank you for sharing them with us!

Ramasubramanian M.K
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Joined: 05 May 2009, 08:33

Post by Ramasubramanian M.K »

Dear Rasikas:Thanks for the encouragement-I realise I need to be focussed instead of getting swept away in torrents of reminiscences spanning over 65 years.I will try.

CM Lover's points about the MSS/Sadasivam partnership as well as the observations about the KBS/SGK,DKP/Eswaran and the NCV/Satchi relationships are astute and on the dot. I shall use separate thread on each of those relationships-My family(from Tirunelveli Dist) was an ardent SGK fan--I have one of the rarest casettes(privately recorded from several gramophone records of SGK) and I had an uncle from Shencottah(where SGK hails from,Shencottah Gangadhara Iyer Kittappa) whose father was a neighbor of SGK and a good family friend(SGK unfortunately died in 1935 @ the age of 27). So I would like to write more on SGK in a separate thread--I leave it to one of the Rasikas to start this--then I can focus on what would interest the reader rather than ramble all over!! Likewise,on the DKP/Eswaran and NCV/Satchi story in separate threads.

Back to CM lover's queries on Sadasivam-Kalki relationship and the stormy relationship between Shanmughavadivu and Sadasivam.
Sadasivam Kalki(Krishnamurthy) "axis"-- Kalki mama was three years older than Mama and the freedom movement and Rajaji were the two principal factors in the relationship. Also Mama did not care much for Vasan's alleged "meretriciousness" in the way he ran Vikatan in the thirties when the freedom movement and the post-Bharathiyar phase called for a greater dose of patriotism(especially when one owns the only powerful medium one had in one's possession namely the magazine and in Mama's opinion the crass "commercialism" of Vikatan(I wonder what he would say today of the Tamil magazines-heavily film-oriented and youth-oriented!) turned him off!! Vikatan was banned in the Kalki gardens and Mama used to call it the "Ananda Kadan"(meaning joyous Debt!!)Mama also rebuffed Vasan's attempt to cast MS in one of his movies--although mama could have made more money in succumbing to Vasan's overtures.(Note: There is a prevalent thought about Vasan's motives and Mama's suspicion of them--namely Vasan's control over the actors/actresses was legendary and this may start a slippery slope of Mama ending up losing MS). In my humble opinion and based on the observations of others privy to the issue, this theory is NOT VALID at all. It was more due to Mama's principles and his philosophical incompatibility with Vasan that prompted him to part ways. Kalki to his credit also felt that despite the fact that he enjoyed full confidence of Vasan and Vikatan offered a forum and freedom for his activities--felt he owed the country more than mere self-enrichment.Kalki was a simple man in his dress,and not much of a lover of creature comforts. So it was a natural chemistry between the two although each respected their mutual space and were very careful not to tread on each other. Kalki did not visit the kalki premises everyday--he lived in gandhinagar,Adyar and Kalki gardens in Kilpauk was atleast 45 minutes one way. He will spend two or three days at the most at the office--even then Kalki would never come upstairs to chat with MS Mami or engage in idle discussions with the scores of vistors thronging the place. Both Kalki mama and Sadasivam mama were ardent followers of Rasikamani T.K.Chidambaranatha Mudaliar of Courtallam(who was a great poet/writer--he wrote the Kamba Ramayanam serialisation in kalki under the heading "Kambar Tharum Katchi"). TKC was thoroughly disenchanted with the Schooling system(the british) at that time and actively canvassed against sending kids to School instead urging parents to teach at home. Sadasivam Mama literally took his advice and withdrew Radha and Vijaya from the schools they were going to in Chennai and enaged private tuition-Kalki on the other hand did not follow- he sent Anandhi to a convent school and Anandhi matriculated from one of those schools. This incident to me shows both of them as right in their own ways and not any contradiction as some may feel.

Because of the meeting of minds on Editorial philosphy and principles there was seldom any dissent or discord between the two- Kalki mama stayed completely away from the business aspects of the magazine-he neither had the inclination nor the time-he was eagerly sought after as a especially leading literary luminary. So this arrangement suited both men(subsequently this was cemented further by the marriage of Anandhi to Ambi-N.Ramachandran--one of Mama's pet nephews--Gowri ramnarayan's parents).Still the lines were clearly drawn and neither stepped on the other's toes. IT was a great partnership where each person did what he knew best and knew when to step away from each other's path!! Rajaji's influence on both men was tremendous and Rajaji's passionate anti-congress stance was echoed and reinforced by the powerful editorials of Kalki. Unfortunately Kalki died suddenly in 1954 and Mama was shattered because he now had to carry both the roles--he brought in M.P.Somu --a loyalist of Rajaji and TKC who maintained the dignity and stature of the magazine--but it should be said to Mama's credit and his loyal cohorts who stood by him thro thick and thin the magazine maintained its high standards and circulation(despite the onslaught of more commercial-oriented ,populist magazines like Kumudamll An interesting side bar story on Kalki Mama's work habits.
Readers may recall Kalki's famous historical long novels--Sivakamiyin Sabatham,Parthiban kanavu in the late forties. In the fifties he started his magnum opus-Ponniyin Selvan which ran for several years.I had a glimpse of how he approached writing week after week for the Kalki for this novel. The magazine would be due to go to press on Wednesdays(before the Sunday)--all material,ads,editorials jokes etc would all have been formatted to ready to go by Tuesday night waiting for kalki's weekly Ponniyin Selvan novel-- sometimes kalki would be so busy the weekend before as well as Monday --late Tuesday there will be a call to Adyar from kalki gardens reminding him of the due script--Kalki would have made broad notes(Kurippugal ) regarding the pace and direction of the novel but would never write down chapter after chapter in advance. On one occasion he was late and he had misplaced his notes-- the previous week he would have built up a suspenseful ending to be followed up later!! When he misplaced his notes and the weekly script was due,he will hit upon a brilliant idea and come up with wonderful description about the flora of the palace,the gardens etc in great poetic detail and description just to get that weekly instalment out of the way. Most readers would be disappointed that he did not build on the suspense he had created the previous week and thought that he did it deliberately to increase readers interest and circulation .NOTHING COULD BE FARTHER FROM THE TRUTH--the fact is that he had misplaced his notes and rather than continue the suspense narrative inappropriately he would fill the space with descriptions. The last thing I would ever think of Kalki Mama was that he was a scheming person!!

Anybody who has read those classics would acknowledge that he was past master in statecraft,intrigue and suspense balanced by subtler sense of humor(his columns in Vikatan are a treat to read).Also he can be brutal as can be seen from his review of MS's Kandathundo Kannan Pol(the way MS has sung it it will sound like Kanathundo Kannan Po Labo Labo!!) Kalki would have fun with it in his column in kalki and ofcourse Mama would never take umbrage at that. Mama knew when his sensitivity was ruptured and react accordingly.

On the MSS-Shanmughavadivu-Sadasivam axis -later--

VK RAMAN
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Post by VK RAMAN »

Integrity and commitment - two words that explain the character of MS Mama

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

Very interesting. The confrontation between SS Vasan and Sadasivam is the classical 'clash of the Titans'. Both made it big in their own way. It is indeed sad kalki died prematurely; which is a monumental loss toTamil and Tamizh isai. I had known Sadasivam was a door-to-door khadi salesman. For him to have succeeded in business is indeed a rag-to-riches story! Was he also quite knowledgeable in CM? what made him marry MS in spite of communal resistance. Those were the days when folks were ostracized for such marriages. But paradoxically this was one that was blessed by PeriyavaaL himself who may have divinely realized that this was an ideal marriage. You are giving nice insights into the personality of Sadashivam who no MBA or heavy capital succeeded in business and also brought out MS as a polished CM gem under trying circimstances!

I am equally curious on the other stories especially of NCV (where CM lost!); but let there be no information overload. No pressure at all! Take your time and narrate as you recall the series of events!

Ramasubramanian M.K
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Joined: 05 May 2009, 08:33

Post by Ramasubramanian M.K »

Mama's motivation in marrying MS-I must confess I am not privy to that segment of mama's life.I can only speculate based on my first hand knowledge of HOW much Mama appreciated mami's music(he always called himself Mami's #1 FAN!!! There must have been a divine intervention in the union because the opposition from Shanmughavadivu was legitimate- Imagine you have a 20 year old daughter,beautiful in looks, extraordinary lark-like voice and a sparkling imagination and grasping power.and universally acclaimed by the CM giants of that time- who were visitors to the Shanmughavadivu house-TNR,Mazhavarayanendal Subbarama Bhagavathar(noted for his Laya prowess and Pallavi singing)(I have never heard his singing but MS Mami always used to proudly claim how she used to sing dificult pallavis before him and how he blessed her . If you are Shanmughavadivu and you hear such unvarnished praise from stalwarts ,you would naturally have high hopes for her career and progress and you want to make sure that she is married to a person whose #1 priority would be his wife and her career. Then comes a thirty-plus man--an active freedom fighter,penniless, no steady job,a captivating personality yoked to a gambler's wit and daring----none of them reassuring for a mother interested in the sole welfare of her talented daughter. So her reluctance was natural despite Mama's repeated assurances that he would give Mami's career a high priority. The events after are a little murky(I am not sure the TG George's version in his book does adequate justice to either Mama or Mami ) although Mami trusted Mama implicitly on this affair and there were some friends in madurai whose advice and protection mami sought when all this confrontation took place--Mama to his credit helped each and every member of those families that offered shelter to mami in madurai as a measure of his gratitude towards them. By the early forties Shanmughavadivu and family had reconciled themselves to the marriage although relations between the family and Mama were still cold.Mami had an elder brother M.S.Sakthivel and a younger sister Vadivambal(my mother claims she was even more beautiful than MS mami although my mother admits she did not know her that well --Vadivambal died when she was 22-- a shock to both Mami as well as her mother. In my mother's archives I saw a letter from Mami lamenting about her sister's death .Mama did his best to have Shakthivel accompany Mami for her concerts but Shakthivel was not forgiving and his mridangam car wnet nowhere. These disappointments and Mami's meteoric rise in the late forties and the national stature that Mama got for her,softened her mother's antipathy towards mama. As Gowri states in her book in 1955 when MS Mami sang in Madurai Shanmughavdivu was honored with a garland which she promptly placed on Mami's neck. Earlier(1948) when my uncle was in madurai-- in a street not too far from Shanmughavdivu's house,my mother was pregnant at that time with my brother Sekhar(Mama called him the Kalki gardens Asthana Vidwan as he played mridangam for mami in several concerts(weddings),Mami used to request my mother to visit her mother in madurai(I think if my memory serves me right it used to be called Danappa Mudali Agraharam). My mother used to visit her and report on her health. Point: Mama did everything to facilitate a rapprochement between himself and Mami's mother and showed extraordinary sensitivity towards her till her demise.Mami's mother towards the end of her life was satisfied that her daughter's career was enriched by Mama more than she could ever have dreamed for her. Hope this answers some of the questions raised by readers re: the Sadasivam-Shanmughavadivu axis.
As regards one of the readr's query about Mama's role in planning the songs for concerts.

Mama controlled this depending upon the venue,audience,dignitaries presence--Mami would sometimes demur hesitantly about repeating the same song in Panthuvarali(Sarasaksha the Swathi Thirunal's kriti)in each concert(mami would mention people might think I do not know another song in pantuvarali!!). Mama's contention was the Neraval portion(Bhamini gives full vent to the melodious voice of Mami and brings out her best ).later on Mama also mellowed and let her sing songs touching the lowest octave(with Radha providing the higher octave support).Mami would touch the lower Panchamam with a clarity and melody unsurpassed--(Amba Kamakshi in Bhairavi is an example--Ofcourse Semmangudi mama's influence was profound--Mami deftly adapted her sonorous briga-laden voice to the steady Bhava-laden style of Semmangudi. During the concerts Mama would intensely watch what is going on in the stage-whether the violinist or the Mridangam artiste is overdoing and spoiling the melody.Also how he would signal if he wants a different song(than originally planned ).Radha tells me of an incident when A Sikh dignitary(Governor or Minister I cannot recall) was being ushered in towards the middle of the concert,Mama signals to her by making a gesture of stroking the beard and Radha the sharp and perceptive the daughter she is immediately whispers in Mami's ears to sing a Guru Nanak Bhajan(mami's repertoire--be it bengali Robindra Sangeeth or Guru Nanak's song was phenomenal thanks to Mama's vision)!! Radha can recite a whole list of gestures that over the years she and Mama had devised to signal changes in the songs or in their sequence!!
Mama can also be ruthlessly caustic when some rasika suggests something totally incongruous. Example.
When they visited the US in 1977,myself and my wife hosted them for their concerts in and around NY City(including the carnegie hall oerformance--where my wife Nirmala provided the Thambura support!!).One of the concerts was in upstate NY and the local organiser who was all excited that he would be escorting the MS gang from my house in Queens(an honor I was gladly willing to yield!!).During the drive(I was told this by one of the occupants of the car) the host showed Mama a list of his favorites--the list included harikambodhi--Ramanannu and Khamas-Brocheva in succession!!). Mama I believe took one look at it and said which numbskull prepared the list--how can harikambodhi and Khamas appear in succession and gave a mini lecture as to what is needed for a concert balance!!

More on this -- 1977 tour of the US which for myself and my wife is an unforgettable experience--VKV played an important part during the tour as he did in 1966 when they visited the UN.

cacm
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Post by cacm »

Ramesh,
You are bringing back MEMORIES OF M.S.AMMA& T.S. which are indelibly etched in our memories FOR EVER...................... . Incidentally while T.S.George writes well etc many of the things he has written in his book are what I consider "low blows" & hitting below the belt. They are not factual in nature & he has parroted the views & statements of the "Establishment" types in Madras who never could understand or appreciate the GREATNESS OF M.S. which transcends everything. In my opinion there has been only one such person in our lifetime
To add to the requests one of the organisers had requested Viribhoni followed by Koluvaui Unnadae! T.S. was flabbergasted & said in his 50 year experience he had never come across such a request! But now a days such a request may not be outlandish Iguess!
......VKV
Last edited by cacm on 09 Aug 2009, 10:32, edited 1 time in total.

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

Wonderful! Now we have the team of RMK and VKV who can provide firsthand info on the epoch-making MS trip to US 1977!
VKV
I agree TSG did indeed hit below the belt based on gossips. There is no need to confront them since the life of MS and Sadasivam is ample testimony for the purity of their relations.

I just want to verify one story that I have heard. It was said that Sadasivam met MS first time on a train journey and knowing her music prowess he requested her to sing when she sang 'kaNNedutthaakilum kaaNeerO' (the really beautiful soul-stirring simhendramadhyamam). That was indeed love at first sight. Is this story true?
At any rate that song of MS is indelibly etched in the memories of us (oldies)!

Do continue..

cacm
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Joined: 08 Apr 2010, 00:07

Post by cacm »

arasi wrote:How small the world is! CinnANi mami, a close friend of MSS is your mother!
Dear Arasi,
I am sure you have known & met many women who were vying for close friendship & claiming to be the closest etc in Madras. Thru' many of them I had known of Chinnani Mami in abstraction & when I finally met her& she was ramesh's mother I was shocked beyond description. Similarly I did not know the close relationship beteween Jayalakshmi Santhanam & V.V. Sadagopam for a long time!....Life is so full of pleassant surprises. VKV

cacm
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Joined: 08 Apr 2010, 00:07

Post by cacm »

cmlover wrote:Wonderful! Now we have the team of RMK and VKV who can provide firsthand info on the epoch-making MS trip to US 1977!
VKV
I agree TSG did indeed hit below the belt based on gossips. There is no need to confront them since the life of MS and Sadasivam is ample testimony for the purity of their relations.

I just want to verify one story that I have heard. It was said that Sadasivam met MS first time on a train journey and knowing her music prowess he requested her to sing when she sang 'kaNNedutthaakilum kaaNeerO' (the really beautiful soul-stirring simhendramadhyamam). That was indeed love at first sight. Is this story true?
At any rate that song of MS is indelibly etched in the memories of us (oldies)!

Do continue..

I am unable to say whether T.S. would have made such a request on first meeting. I place him on such a high pedestal because of various reasons- his participation in Independence movement(his picture is in Gandhi Mandapam as one of the freedom fighters- I ALWAYS only MARVEL at their GREATNESS in what they have contributed to my generation of Indians at least. INSPIRING is the only word that comes to my mind whenever I think of BOTH of them.....VKV

rajeshnat
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Post by rajeshnat »

MKR Sir.
The anecdotes are getting wonderful , you have a great style. I am glad I asked you a question about sadashivam mama's involvement in kutcheri planning and song selection.

Usually concerts are always not pleasing the entire audience , it just has to touch the right people and perhaps ignore the rest . For eg when the Sardar came, the artists plan and sing a guru nanak based song. Who knows that sardar would have gone to the parliament in delhi and made a proposal that Smt MSS is nightingale.

Also when mAmA said 'how can harikambodhi and Khamas appear in succession ' this is a great piece of advice to many (especially one vidwan of today)who believe there is nothing wrong.

I wanted to ask just two more questions:
--------------------------------------------------
1. There was a mention somewhere that MS Amma learnt a lot from both musiri and semmangudi mama as gurus(though there is a minority opinion that SSI has certainly helped ms amma no questions about that, but that was more when MSS reached a celebrity status ). Any pointers on shri musiri- msamma guru sishya tutoring. I read somewhere musiri taught ms amma some great krithis like Tiruvadi Charanam (KambOdhi), RAmArAmA Gunaseema (Simhendramadhyamam)

2. A more difficult question, for me sadashivam mAmA was doing everything for ms amma and the loyal accompanists who stayed with her, by any chance did sadashivam mama show any patronage and helping tendency towards other sibling artists of MS amma.
Last edited by rajeshnat on 09 Aug 2009, 12:16, edited 1 time in total.

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

Let me add one more..
How come MS mama did not allow a Sishya parampara develop through MS?

cacm
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Post by cacm »

MS Amma was such an eager student till the very end she learnt from so many different vidwans as well as language experts to make sure she was correct reg. languages as well. For example when she gave her performance in Asia Society in '66 T.S. went to the stage at the end of the song Gopalaha Pahimam & introduced K.V.N. who was present as not only only a great artist himself but as one who had taught M.S. this song. Similarly when she sang a Meera Song later on T. S. introduced the nineties old Ellis.R.Dungan-who was living in Pittsburgh then & specially came to that program- as the great director who came from Hollywood to Madras & was the great director of that film!....While some cynically can say it was opportunistic for some one like me it was both educational& inspiring to relive various memories of greatness.....The unbelievable appreciation of even a small help was characteristic of BOTH of them & the fact so many were admirers at various levels. VKV
Last edited by cacm on 09 Aug 2009, 19:57, edited 1 time in total.

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

VKV
first tell us how you got to know MS and TS so close!

cacm
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Post by cacm »

TO tell the story properly would take too much space& time. Do you come to Chennai during dec 1st weekend to end of feb? I can buy you a good dinner & make a "full confession". OR if you come to cleveland festival- next year starts on April 1 & goes on for 10 days; GNB CENTENARY CELEBRATIONS THIS YEAR TOO- we can meet.....Briefly whether its a Nobel laurate like Feynman or a genius like Mali or once in a three hundred year phenom like SIVAN OR like MSS-TS pair OR one of a kind MMI it seems only for these greats to be convinced you are truly interested in learning more & have some knowledge in the area. This seems to unlock many things......VKV
Last edited by cacm on 10 Aug 2009, 00:12, edited 1 time in total.

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

It is not just for me! Our membership like to know CM history and you are a piece of it....
Of course I am personally interested in Feynman but would not discuss it here at the Forum :)

Ramasubramanian M.K
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Joined: 05 May 2009, 08:33

Post by Ramasubramanian M.K »

CMlover; Your question about VKV--I will let him answer the question.But I will add a certain perspective of mine towards Mama's choice of friends and how deep he would hold them on to his heart. Mama epitomises Shakespeare's Hamlet (Polonius advice to Laertes).
THOSE FRIENDS THOU HAST THEIR ADOPTION TRIED
GRAPPLE THEM TO THY SOUL WITH HOOPS OF STEEL
BUT DO NOT DULL THY PALM WITH ENTERTAINMENT
OF NEW HATCHED,UNFLEDGED COMRADE.


Mama was a very shrewd judge of character and ability which he had to be as he had to manage a political party(Swatantra),a Magazine plus MS Mami's career with so many sycophants--genuine and phonies swarming around --most of them eager to capitalise on their association with Mama and Mami. At the same time the ones whom he tried,tested and trusted --he will hold them close to his bosom--VKV belongs in that rare circle(I do not know how he got to know MS/Mama--I am under the impression that during the 1966 tour of the UN , VKV was of tremendous help although CVN was the host .Mama and mami would be ecstatic whenever a member of VKV's family visited them in Chennai. (did not need advance appointments etc) I would also venture to add that at no time did VKV ever capitalise on that relationship nor did he let anyone outside of his immediate circle know that he was close to the Sadasivams --these things NEVER escaped Mama's attention I am also sure if VKV ever wanted Mama to help somebody that VKV knew and needed help,mama would have obliged him forthwith. Again this goes to prove my earlier point about Mama's incessant advice about loyalty and gratitude.he always used to tell me is it not amazing there are so many good souls in the World and yet we talk and worry about the others!!

My mother always used to tell us how lucky we are in our family to have been part of the MS family when our credentials were NONEXISTENT!! very true!!! This is not MODESTY but HONESTY!!!!

likewise if somebody betrayed him for some low sum, even if the person tries to atone for it with millions,Mama would not relent!!!--no matter what high influential that person may become later in life.

Also Mama maintained a fine line between his political beliefs and tenets(expressed thro scathing editorials in Swatrajya and kalki) and friendships with the persons who were the recipients of the criticism. Example.

Once in the late Fifties at Rajaji's behest,mama wrote a scathing editorial indicting TTK(for those young rasikas TTK was T.T. Krishnamachari the Finance Minister of GOI and the father of the late T Vasu--former President of the Madras Music Academy) for some (what Rajaji thought) were faulty policies--the same week TTK visited Madras and as was his custom formally called on MS and Mama(they were good friends-TTK's family events always included Mama and Mami in some capacity not necessarily singing. I have been a witness to the visit when nothing but pleasantries were exchanged--neither attempted to influence the other or defend their positions--ofcourse Mami was oblivious of the fact that such heated exchanges had preceded the visit!!!

So much for the Friendship angle.

As for mami's not actively training disciples Mami herself as VKV so aptly pointed out was always learning--if it was a bengali song a bengali poet and a music teached would come to kalki gardes for weeks and months till she got the intonation right--The Anamacharya krithis--was a monumental project with kadayanallur Venkatraman painstakingly seting out the tunes and mami and Radha collaborating for days and weeks to get the accent right,the lyrics authenticity verified etc etc. There was no time between the VIP visits and the concertschedules for any teaching--however whenever she visited Bombay she would teach my sister--SriKanthimathim and other krithis--Likewise she taught my daughter(when mami was in her sixties) Vachamagochara(kaikavasi)..
Mami was also magnanimous enough to sing at the wedding reception of both my children when we celebrated both the weddings in Chennai(she was 80 years old at that time--I would say those were the last wedding concerts she had given!--in 1995/1996-- the following year mama died-1997) My sister and brother and myself were jealous that Mami could not sing in any of OUR weddings when she was much younger(each time Mami was laid up with some surgery or other!!). To our family they were God and Goddess always showering us all with affection and we could not reciprocate even onemillionth of that love and affection. I am sure there are several families close to the Sadsivams who can claim the same with justification and pride.

My brother Sekhar whom Mama and mami were equally fond of could write volumes if only I can coax him into writing-because between 1977 and 2004 when mami died,Mama and mami would visit my parents in RA Puram regularly (besides long phone conversations) where they were living with my brother. Besides Sekhar has one lording over me--he was a full-fledged Mridangam player(recipient of the Music Academy Junior Mridangist award in 1963,the President's award in 1965(AIR national Competitions)--as a result he played for Mami for several private friends' concerts Mama would introduce him as OUR ASTHANA VIDWAN

To put it in a nutshell Mama and Mami 's lives are the best testaments to nobility and compassion.

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

RMK
It is like a family member writing. I enjoy your literary quotes too as do our membership. I was a regular reader of Swarajya and was a fan of Khasa Subbarao's insightful writings. Didn't know of the TS connection. I will hold my political questions in check since I once wanted to join Swatantra party skipping Congress!

Folks
feel free to field your queries on MS or TS to RMK or VKV. This is a golden opportunity..

Why did it take such a long time for MS to be recognized or for her to sing at Mecca. Was the rift with TTK the reason? Or was it a Tamizh isai issue?

cacm
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Joined: 08 Apr 2010, 00:07

Post by cacm »

Ramesh,
What an ELOQUENT account of both mami& mama. I TOTALLY AGREE with you that any one fortunate enough to have known them at any level will have to consider them as you have correctly written that"they were god & goddess always showering us all with affection and we could not reciprocate even one millionth of the love&affection". We are better off remembering& celebratiing that we lived at the same time........VKV Incidentally MAMI taught various promising persons like K.V.N'S DAUGHTER among countless others a few pieces, listened & made suggestions. She was such a perfectionist probably given her time constraints she had no time to take on full time students. VKV

arasi
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Post by arasi »

RMK and VKV,
Your recollections and conversations add another dimension to the life of an extraordinary couple of our times. We have read and have heard a lot about them, but your relationship with them as youngsters which continued for many years are reflected in your posts, adding more to what we already know.
They needed each other, and their partnership made an indelible mark in the history of music.
CML mentions NCV. I would add MLV's name to the list along with that of several other lesser known vidUshis. Though Sadasivam orchestrated MS's life, without his leading her, her musical gifts might have gone unnoticed. She might not have had the oppurtunities which were hers. Her spiritual blossoming might not have taken place. Without a husband whose mission was to present the world with a jewel of a musician, without his working toward that goal tirelessly, the nightingale would not have been heard much. May be yes, but not to the extent of growing into a legend and wonder. Her musical glory was the Taj Mahal her husband built years on end without stopping. Of course, she was malleable and was happy to be shaped by him but it all amounted to her becoming a blessing to the music world.

Your mention about Kalki and TKC brought childhood memories of my being touched by their aura, along with other writers of the day.
How true! Kalki Mama was simple and sweet-natured. In spite of his poor health, he was dynamic and had a mission and such zeal for promoting tamizh, bArati, literature, music and everything young India needed in order to grow into a nation that bArati envisioned. His kindness towards me (a mere child ) is to this day something I can never forget. I went to every possible glorious literary meeting of those literary giants. Their speeches were out of this world, Their tamizh, their mastery and creativity kept me spellbound. And Kalki was the organizer of it all...

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

arasi
..now I know where the love of Tamizh and poetic gifts come from...

cacm
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Post by cacm »

Arasi,
YOU are right. The only slight enhancement I am tempted to make is to may be point out T.S. brought out the EXTRA-ORDINARY GREATNESS & TALENTS of not only M.S.Amma but C.R., KALKI, & T.K.C. A very great acheivement! To me its an unmatchable contribution to our culture & country...VKV

Ramasubramanian M.K
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Post by Ramasubramanian M.K »

Arasi: Your summation about the "What-if" without TS's influence is astute and perceptive.Also I got a glimpse of your immense love of literature-Tamizh and the genuine interest in music and musicians.
In fact what I find most heartening in the rasikas forum readers --which makes me write more-- is the absolute rigor and ethics in discussing personalities without inserting one's prejudices(you will agree that Music appreciation does produce 'fanatics' unyielding in their beliefs). Stress on the positive rather than the prurient,titillating aspects of celebrities,is what I find endearing in the various posts covering the whole gamut of music and musicians.

I notice that you are a fan of TKC as well--I am no poet and as such I cannot contribute on that score--however I would like to add that TKC was a wonderful,discerning epicurean and great host--he lived in Courtallam and I have accompanied mama and mami when I was 14(during Semmangudi mama's daughter's wedding). he served us all one of the tenderest(like a flower) Iddly(the size was atleast 5 inches diam.)--I wonder if pans of that size are now available--Although I cannot recall one conversation thread(Kalki Mama was there as well so you can imagine how the conversation would have flowed) I kept on staring at the white bushy,well-groomed moustache of his !!

Need I say more about my poetic sensibilities if all I can write about a great writer is about his Iddly and his moustache!!!

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

RMK
there is a beautiful parody interpretation of the famous paasuram in extolling our 'iDli'.

Here is the paashuram:
pacchai maa malaipOl mEni pavaLa vaay kamalac che^NgaN
acchuthA amararERE aayar tham kozhunthE ennum
icchuvai thanai viDutthu yaan pOy indira lOkamaaLum
acchuvai peRinum vENDEn arangamaanagaruLaanE


( Oh my lord at thiruvarangam! this (iDli) made of fine paccharisi (fine tanjore rice) whose body is like a mountain (malai pOl mEni), while being eaten with the miLkaay poDi the mouth becoming quite red (pavaLa vaay) and from that hotness the eyes become red (che^n kaN); leaving this fine taste (icchuvai thanai viDutthu) if I were offered the kingdom of Indira (indira lOkamaaLum), I will not accept that offer (acchuvai peRinum vENDEn) ) :)

Pardon me! Just trying to inject some humour into these serious narrations! :)

Ramasubramanian M.K
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Post by Ramasubramanian M.K »

CMLover: Enjoyed the parody!!! Looks like I have found a "digitalmate" who has a lighter side!! having been around musicians since the age of 6,I have been regaled very much by their wit and wisdom-hope to bring in these forums--perhaps on a different thread--some of those laughable anecdotes!!

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

Do share the lighter moments with MS and TS. We all would enjoy them!
Though you have stated that TS is quite 'fulminant' I have never seen MS even frown! How did they two get along? Was TS a sort of a domestic autocrat :)
(Don't answer if you don't know :)

arasi
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Post by arasi »

Thank you RMK for your kind words, but whether I merit them to the full is questionable! CML 'enai abhimAnamAi Adarippavar' (one who supports me with such goodwill). He can also take the Suvai (relish) of kaNNan and turn it into a gourmand verse (the interpretation of it)! Remembering Kalki, we also think of AzhvArkKaDiYAn. How he would have protested! He might have retaliated by singing: maNNaDiccu aDi paTTu vANicci puTTu vaNGi VaNGit tinRAraDi ungaL perumAn :) Is Krishna (I mean, on the forum) listening?

TKC. What a presence he had! Such a handsome man too. And A. Srinivasa Raghavan, cA. gaNeSan, and their erudition and eloquence! A.S's voice was like honey. For me, someone who dreads speeches nowadays, especially in concerts, their words were manna from heaven...

cacm
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Post by cacm »

cmlover wrote:Do share the lighter moments with MS and TS. We all would enjoy them!
Though you have stated that TS is quite 'fulminant' I have never seen MS even frown! How did they two get along? Was TS a sort of a domestic autocrat :)
(Don't answer if you don't know :)
Having been around many giant musicians as well as nobel laurates etc- I have been very lucky to be in presence of persons who were invariably infinitely smarter than me- I can say I was intimidated by the level & sharpness of wit of both T.S.& M.S. I had occasions too because of variuos "crazy" incidents& happenings etc. But I dare not share them in this forum as I can see the penetrating but gentle smiling face of M.S. right in front of me.......VKV

vasanthakokilam
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Post by vasanthakokilam »

But I dare not share them in this forum as I can see the penetrating but gentle smiling face of M.S. right in front of me.......VKV
Nicely said, VKV sir :)

Ramasubramanian M.K
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Post by Ramasubramanian M.K »

TS's Humor in response to CML.

A friend and admirer of Mama and Mami(apparently a Non-Hindu) sent telegram to Mama after his Mother-in-Law's death asking whether to bury her or cremate her:
Mama's reply--Do not take chances.Do Both!!!

About Mami's absolute lack of desire for money, wealth or material things.Whenever people mention of the crores she has raised, Mami would not be able to grasp the significance of it.
"Kunjamma does not know how many zeros are there in one crore"

Introducing Semmangudi mama to a non-musical celebrity,
Ivar than Kunjammakku Pattu Vadyar,Engalukku(the cards gang) Cheettu Vadyar!!
Over 50 years Kalki gardens was home to the Cards gang consisting of Mama,Semmangudi mama,K.S.Narayanaswamy,the Veena player, Subri a lawyer from Coimbatore and a freedom fighter and cell mate for Mama in several incarcerations,AVY narayanan(a Senior Civil Servant in GOI also called "all-count Narayanan(because he will always have full count in the rummy game Thiruvaiyaru Annaswamy Bhagavathar(harikatha exponent. Mama outlived each one of them excepting Semmangudi mama. Musiri mama might join occasionally when he visits Kalki gardens with the ostensible purpose of teaching MS Mami(this will also address one of the readers' question about Mami learning from Musiri Mama)--bulk of the time spent in the cards game with Mami sitting just watching(she had absolutely no inkling about the game --but at the end of each game she will sympathise with the loser as if this was Mahabharatha. and the loser was Dharmaputra!!
The cards game(small stakes 1 paise/point--at the end of the session the accounts will be squared and there would not be any winners or losers--I used to ask Mama why play for 3 or 4 hours for nothing? Mama would laugh it away saying it takes the mind off serious things. Mama would also never fold(no initial scoot or Middle scoot--I hope the non-card (nee "saints")players in the forum would understand these terminologies!!--This gives you a clue about Mama's philosophy towards risk in general and conviction that over time rewards would outweigh the risks--a bit of digression here. re Mama's high-risk games in real life!! I will revert to the card sessions and the lighter moments during those sessions,later..

mama's attitude towards risk. I had mentioned how Mama used both Swarajya and Kalki (at rajaji's behest) to carry his anti-Congress crusade(ideological fight bemoaning the abandonment of the Gandhian principles that he stood for. There was a time when there was shortage of newsprint and paper in general with strict controls. people around Mama would caution him against criticising the Govt(especially some of them vitriolic towards TTK who was commerce and industry Minister which doles out the licenses) for fear that under some pretext Kalki/Swarajya might be denied licenses to import. Mama was unflinching and carried his crusade with Rajaji's blessings.!!

Back to the card sessions. Semmangudi mama would play prudently,KSN would be extremely conservative and risk-averse,AVY always lived upto his reputation of All-Count Narayanan--Annaswamy Bhagavathar(he had a severe case of early parkinson's disease with severe hand tremors(I used to hold the cards for him) always had an excellent hand--two sequences,three or four jokers--all dealt and yet if I did not intervene he would go on picking cards and playing without realising that he had declared --Those few occasions when he did not have good cards,he was a nervous nellie(he would not scoot either!!) and keep on asking whenever the next man or the previous man picks up a card, AAchha,AAchha(meaning Is it over?). Semmangudi Mama would say "AAna Azhugai Sattam ketkada

(if there is death,will there not be mourning and crying!!)

More later.....

rajeshnat
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Post by rajeshnat »

MKR
When you talk about cards, I also used to play cards (not with money) with my thatha , then watch my thatha play with his group of friends in the thinnai of mayavaram - kumbakonam belt . There is just total camaraderie in the game . There are some painful moments when a person does wrong declare , he has to pay full money to every other participant.

For all those who do not know rummy game and scoot. rummy is a game where you have to have atleast one set of real sequence some thing like 10 clubs, 9 clubs and 8 clubs and then one supporting sequence with a joker , then you can have others too. If one of the participant gets all of them and declares , if others dont have a real they give full 100 points .

Scoot is a term where in the player has an option to say that he is not playing after the cards are distributed. Scoot usually gives 25 points before he does not take even one card from the pack , if we decides to play and then scoots half way then he gives 50 points.

Just one question:
----------------------
Before MS amma and shri sadashivam moved into kotturpuram residence , in between kalki gardens and this house , they used to stay for many many years near my home in nungambakkam. ANy specific recollections there. BTW I do just know both of them never knew them as nightingale but more as one of the hmv casette artist who knows vishnu sahasranAmam. My elderly cousin sister is very close to MS amma , she was a lab technician in sankara nethralaya then.

Once once I have heard her singing in person . Rajaji's great grandson is my classmate for his upanayanam , she sang the original oru kuraiyum illatha kurai onrum illai. That memory only remains the most.

rshankar
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Post by rshankar »

Ramasubramanian M.K wrote:
Over 50 years Kalki gardens was home to the Cards gang consisting of Mama,Semmangudi mama,K.S.Narayanaswamy,the Veena player, Subri a lawyer from Coimbatore and a freedom fighter and cell mate for Mama in several incarcerations,AVY narayanan(a Senior Civil Servant in GOI also called "all-count Narayanan(because he will always have full count in the rummy game Thiruvaiyaru Annaswamy Bhagavathar(harikatha exponent. Mama outlived each one of them excepting Semmangudi mama. Musiri mama might join occasionally when he visits Kalki gardens with the ostensible purpose of teaching MS Mami
Is this the same person as the composer Kovai Subri?

Ramasubramanian M.K
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Post by Ramasubramanian M.K »

Rajeshnat: The Kalki Gardens-U.S.tour-Valluvar Kottam(Nungambakkam)-Kotturpuram spans the period post 1977-. is a very long and poignant story and in my mind eclipses all other previous stories of the couple in terms of fame,power,prestige.That period till their death Mama(1997) and Mami(2004),epitomises HOW human beings should handle adversity without rancor or disillusionment--their faith in Paramacharya and Bhagawan Sree Satya Baba was the powerful anchor that helped them tide over the period with head aloft and with dignity.

I will revert to this topic as it requires some cogent thinking for the narrative to be coherent and truthful. Bear with me.

Re; your earlier question re' Musiri Mama's training-- YES--Musiri Mama was the architect behind some of the krithis like Thiruvadi Charanam. Mama would always introduce Musiri Mama to people not familiar with CM as "the Musician OF Musicians". Ofcourse Mami was the "dream Pupil" that any Guru would covet--so much of respect for the Teacher,laser-focussed attentiveness,sincerity and genuine respect for the elders--if you are a witness to those sessions and if you do not have any idea of the "divide" between Musiri mama and Mami in terms of their world fame and recognition, you would be amazed at the genuine humility that Mami would show!! A light incident which my mother recently narrated about one such session.
Once when Musiri Mama was taking a lesson with Mami(it will always be in kalki Gardens--Mama would send the car--most of the time Semmangudi Mama would also be there(playing cards treating the exercise as a respite from teaching Mami !!),there was a phone call--in those days there were no chordless phones and in kalki Gardens Mama made it a point to have the main phone installed in the Main Hall--no phones in either of their bedrooms--the switchboard below at the Kalki Office premises was the conduit for the phone calls--all of them screened. before Mami could ask or the "help" informing who was calling, I believe Musiri mama intervened to ask WHO is the caller? When the help said it was from Chinnani mami,before Mami could say anything, Mama would say"Go,there would not be anymore lesson today because I know there would be a long conversation between you and Chinnani(he had tremendous affection for my Father and Mother--once when my mother was hit in a car accident in 1968 and recuperating from it Musiri mama wrote letters every fortnight-they are stilll available in our family archives)--Sorry for the digression. !!

To be continued----

P.S.Readers should not think I am using Kalki mama's trick(alluded to in one of my earlier posts!!--the imperatives of Samsaram beckon me!!!

s_hari
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Post by s_hari »

"When the help said it was from Chinnani mami,before Mami could say anything, Mama would say"Go,there would not be anymore lesson today because I know there would be a long conversation between you and Chinnani"

I have heard this before!!! But, was it Musiri or TS mama, not sure?

-hari

Ramasubramanian M.K
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Post by Ramasubramanian M.K »

rshankar's query about Kovai Subri-to my knowledge the Subri--the lawyer I refer to did not seem to have any poetic credentials,unless he felt his playing cards served humanity more than his poetry would!!!

also Hari's question -my mother tells me it was Musiri mama. Mama would"laugh" these endless conversations away with a light banter--- It was Mama in one of his visits to my brother's place in R.A.Puram who suggested in 1991 (that was 50 years since our families knew each other) to celebrate the 50th anniversary. A cake was ordered and the baker wrongly put 60 years instead of 50(this pic appears in my father's book the Musings on Music and Musicians) How prophetic-- the friendship lasted another 13 years till Mami's death in 2004

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

Thanks RMK for those uplifting humour and the light moments!
I remember SSI while being invited for close weddings remarking "vazhakkam pOlE kaccheri uNdu illayO.." many used to get puzzled since he was not singing , but that he meant cheeTTu :)

arasi
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Post by arasi »

RSMK,
Your name typed this way looks like one of tamizh nADu's merchants--original, and those who came from Saurashtra! If Ramesh would suffice, we could address you thus :)

The anecdotes you share with us are heartwarming and connect us to the greats. While we relish them, the younger generation on the forum are even more thankful I think, to be connected to the personal history of the giants of yesteryears whom they admire no end.
Rajesh's post says it. It connects him with his grandfather, and it all goes to give them a whole picture of life and music which existed way before their time.
Just as the book MS & Radha - Saga of Steadfast Devotion brings images of yesteryears, your anecdotes are worth listening to. They add to all that our generation leaves behind for the coming generations of music lovers. You write with dignity and with an insider's knowledge, and yet keep it all objective...
Last edited by arasi on 14 Aug 2009, 22:00, edited 1 time in total.

baboosh
Posts: 140
Joined: 12 Aug 2006, 17:34

Post by baboosh »

rshankar wrote:
Ramasubramanian M.K wrote:
Over 50 years Kalki gardens was home to the Cards gang consisting of Mama,Semmangudi mama,K.S.Narayanaswamy,the Veena player, Subri a lawyer from Coimbatore and a freedom fighter and cell mate for Mama in several incarcerations,AVY narayanan(a Senior Civil Servant in GOI also called "all-count Narayanan(because he will always have full count in the rummy game Thiruvaiyaru Annaswamy Bhagavathar(harikatha exponent. Mama outlived each one of them excepting Semmangudi mama. Musiri mama might join occasionally when he visits Kalki gardens with the ostensible purpose of teaching MS Mami
Is this the same person as the composer Kovai Subri?

Yes.Kovai subri was the freedom fighter who also composed several songs on Lord Muruga and it has been published in 6 volumes.

Suji Ram
Posts: 1529
Joined: 09 Feb 2006, 00:04

Post by Suji Ram »

How I wish now my grandpa was alive so I could ask him all the questions about his visit to Kalki Gardens. He was a tutor for a period of time for MSS's adopted son. My mother would tell me only recently that MSS would bring badam milk etc by her own hands to my Grandpa, and that he would hear her practice. It is only after seeing my craze about CM and musicians my mom opened up to tell all these things. My grandpa too passed away in 2004.

s_hari
Posts: 872
Joined: 20 May 2007, 18:45

Post by s_hari »

Arasi - I can also connect to MSAmma through my maternal grand father! Sri Athmanathan is close aid and secretary to MS amma and brother of K.R.Kedharanathan. Their mother lived in opposite house of my grand father in west mambalam chennai. MS Amma used to visit their home, and there used to be lot of excitement at our home, when i was a kid. People used to rush out to street to catch a glimpse of her.

Also, i am fortunate to see UN concert in doordarshan may be in late seventies! I still remember T.H.Vinayakaram doing "gatam catching" during tani!! Can't recollect anything else though):- Hope this concert video comes out in public. Also being fortunate to hear her Srimannarayana etc from balaji pancharathna mala in early 80s when the album was released..

-hari

Ramasubramanian M.K
Posts: 1226
Joined: 05 May 2009, 08:33

Post by Ramasubramanian M.K »

Thanks Arasi for your nice note(#69). Let me clarify the confusion in my name. M.K.Ramasubramanian(MKR)--I am more known as Ramesh and for Semmangudi Mama I was Jalatarangam Ramanayya Chetti(I believe I had a hoarse voice when I was young that reminded him of the Jalatarangam vidwan). Then just to provoke my wife(Nirmala) he would call her as Rameshi,(although he knew their family well even before my marriage,her uncle being one of the camp-followers of Semangudi Mama.)---much to the consternation of the younger women folk whose "feminist" hackles would have been needlessly raised!!!You can address me as Ramesh and also MKR.

Now a few serious thoughts which I would like to put before this forum.

I have never in my life so far put down at length in words what I am writing about here. Although I helped my father in putting together in the book(my article on GNB was the first on artistes although I knew many of them fairly intimately),generally on the MS-TS relationship this is the First time I am opening out- even many of my own family members I have not shared these with. Mama(TS) himself was against any bio being written about him or Mami(his reaction was Did the great Masters ever sit and decide to trumpet their own deeds and why should we --ordinary mortals attempt unless it is to satisfy one's ego. Over the years with my parents settled down in Chennai and as the relationships with Mama and Mami grew stronger there were several attempts from various writers--some of them well known to the couple- to have our family--especially my mother to share some letters and photos from the archives-- My mother refused not because she is possessive but because she was afraid that some contents will be taken out of context and conclusions drawn that may be hurtful to the memories of a person who formed such a close bond with her and to whom our family is specially indebted !!

Then WHY I am choosing to open up now;two reasons
!.I have acquired tremendous respect for the readers of the forum--many of them young,knowledgeable and judging from the various posts in the wide range of topics,very objective,inquisitive,not-gossip-prone or spouting strong views about Music or Musicians--I am sure they all have their likes and dislikes but they are discreet about sharing them on the forum making the forum a "Clean", "sanitized" space to have thoughtful exchanges. The responses I have received so far have only reinforced my perception of the rasikas and have emboldened me to open up. I will be glad to share them so long as readers "indulge" me in some of the (allegedly") humorous detours that I make--some of them might seem mean-spirited to some and not in keeping with the decorum of the forum--but absolutely no malice intended-- sometimes when you are young you tend to make some snap judgements about "celebrities" that one comes across which later on prove to be utterly wrong and are due to our inability to mature faster with those experiences. Later on as one reflects on those encounters I have realised how wrong I was in my judgements about both Music and Musicians. I have tried to correct them in my posts here.

2. Second reason--this is more important-- during the last years (or possible decades) of their life, I came across lots of misinformation and judgements,rumors swirling around even amongst erstwhile close friends of Mama and Mami who felt "cut off" because Mama and Mami decided to "fade" away from public life and the restricted access(that was even more rigorously enforced after Mama's death) fueled more rumors about Mami's condition etc etc--I will recite one of the most embarrassing moments(post-Mama period) in my life later on in one of the threads,when I was put temporarily in charge of defending the "fort"(Kotturpuram) when Athma had to attend to some important business for half a day!!). I felt especially after the TJ George book compelled to rebut and then checked myself-- the bulk of my professional career has been with the Book Publishing Industry and I am familiar with all the facets of Publishing both in the US and India and the book and other similar-vein articles,tidbits are all par for the Publishing industry--sensationalize and sell books especially about personalities who have throughout resisted media intrusion in their lives--trying to rebut these especially from an avowed admirer would only exacerbate the situation and lend legitimacy to an otherwise speculative work. So I decided to keep quiet.
Rather than rebut those rumors or half-truths, if I "weave" my narrative with anecdotes and insights,the readers of the forum(who are all quite familiar with the CM Music landscape and irrespective of their ages are inquisitive and responsible) would draw their own conclusions.Point: the references to my family or myself are only to put the incident in context and offer my own insights--many a time I have reacted to some of the incidents at the time they happened and made some hasty judgements about Mama and later on as I matured and saw their lives in a wider canvas,I realised how much I was wrong--so if it can happen to me with so many chances to clear the misperceptions, how can I take umbrage at a casual writer not familiar with the subject writing something that at best is "mean-spirited if not scandalously scurrilous!! As I have said in several of the posts,my credentials or my family's credentials are NON_EXISTENT. This is not about ourselves. 200 years from now we may not even merit a footnote in the works about Mama and Mami. This is TOTAL HONESTY AND NOT MODESTY.

Lastly my father would have been proud to see this had he been alive--throughout he coaxed me,cajoled me into writing pieces or reviews etc and I pig-headedly and stubbornly refused. Now I am writing at the drop of a hat--his writings,reviews(as some of you who are in Chennai would have been familiar with) was always positive accenting the good in public and pointing out the areas for improvement in one-on-one sessions with the artiste. I am of the same mold--there are so many good things to write about people like Mami/Mama in public life that it is a waste of time chasing some "alleged" insignificant infraction or transgressions.

Abe Lincoln said it aptly: Justice to All and Malice to none"--this is my motivation.

rshankar
Posts: 13754
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Post by rshankar »

Sri MKR - Very well said! Please continue to enlighten us.

cacm
Posts: 2212
Joined: 08 Apr 2010, 00:07

Post by cacm »

Ramasubramanian M.K wrote:Thanks Arasi for your nice note(#69). Let me clarify the confusion in my name. M.K.Ramasubramanian(MKR)--I am more known as Ramesh and for Semmangudi Mama I was Jalatarangam Ramanayya Chetti(I believe I had a hoarse voice when I was young that reminded him of the Jalatarangam vidwan). Then just to provoke my wife(Nirmala) he would call her as Rameshi,(although he knew their family well even before my marriage,her uncle being one of the camp-followers of Semangudi Mama.)---much to the consternation of the younger women folk whose "feminist" hackles would have been needlessly raised!!!You can address me as Ramesh and also MKR.

Now a few serious thoughts which I would like to put before this forum.

I have never in my life so far put down at length in words what I am writing about here. Although I helped my father in putting together in the book(my article on GNB was the first on artistes although I knew many of them fairly intimately),generally on the MS-TS relationship this is the First time I am opening out- even many of my own family members I have not shared these with. Mama(TS) himself was against any bio being written about him or Mami(his reaction was Did the great Masters ever sit and decide to trumpet their own deeds and why should we --ordinary mortals attempt unless it is to satisfy one's ego. Over the years with my parents settled down in Chennai and as the relationships with Mama and Mami grew stronger there were several attempts from various writers--some of them well known to the couple- to have our family--especially my mother to share some letters and photos from the archives-- My mother refused not because she is possessive but because she was afraid that some contents will be taken out of context and conclusions drawn that may be hurtful to the memories of a person who formed such a close bond with her and to whom our family is specially indebted !!

Then WHY I am choosing to open up now;two reasons
!.I have acquired tremendous respect for the readers of the forum--many of them young,knowledgeable and judging from the various posts in the wide range of topics,very objective,inquisitive,not-gossip-prone or spouting strong views about Music or Musicians--I am sure they all have their likes and dislikes but they are discreet about sharing them on the forum making the forum a "Clean", "sanitized" space to have thoughtful exchanges. The responses I have received so far have only reinforced my perception of the rasikas and have emboldened me to open up. I will be glad to share them so long as readers "indulge" me in some of the (allegedly") humorous detours that I make--some of them might seem mean-spirited to some and not in keeping with the decorum of the forum--but absolutely no malice intended-- sometimes when you are young you tend to make some snap judgements about "celebrities" that one comes across which later on prove to be utterly wrong and are due to our inability to mature faster with those experiences. Later on as one reflects on those encounters I have realised how wrong I was in my judgements about both Music and Musicians. I have tried to correct them in my posts here.

2. Second reason--this is more important-- during the last years (or possible decades) of their life, I came across lots of misinformation and judgements,rumors swirling around even amongst erstwhile close friends of Mama and Mami who felt "cut off" because Mama and Mami decided to "fade" away from public life and the restricted access(that was even more rigorously enforced after Mama's death) fueled more rumors about Mami's condition etc etc--I will recite one of the most embarrassing moments(post-Mama period) in my life later on in one of the threads,when I was put temporarily in charge of defending the "fort"(Kotturpuram) when Athma had to attend to some important business for half a day!!). I felt especially after the TJ George book compelled to rebut and then checked myself-- the bulk of my professional career has been with the Book Publishing Industry and I am familiar with all the facets of Publishing both in the US and India and the book and other similar-vein articles,tidbits are all par for the Publishing industry--sensationalize and sell books especially about personalities who have throughout resisted media intrusion in their lives--trying to rebut these especially from an avowed admirer would only exacerbate the situation and lend legitimacy to an otherwise speculative work. So I decided to keep quiet.
Rather than rebut those rumors or half-truths, if I "weave" my narrative with anecdotes and insights,the readers of the forum(who are all quite familiar with the CM Music landscape and irrespective of their ages are inquisitive and responsible) would draw their own conclusions.Point: the references to my family or myself are only to put the incident in context and offer my own insights--many a time I have reacted to some of the incidents at the time they happened and made some hasty judgements about Mama and later on as I matured and saw their lives in a wider canvas,I realised how much I was wrong--so if it can happen to me with so many chances to clear the misperceptions, how can I take umbrage at a casual writer not familiar with the subject writing something that at best is "mean-spirited if not scandalously scurrilous!! As I have said in several of the posts,my credentials or my family's credentials are NON_EXISTENT. This is not about ourselves. 200 years from now we may not even merit a footnote in the works about Mama and Mami. This is TOTAL HONESTY AND NOT MODESTY.

Lastly my father would have been proud to see this had he been alive--throughout he coaxed me,cajoled me into writing pieces or reviews etc and I pig-headedly and stubbornly refused. Now I am writing at the drop of a hat--his writings,reviews(as some of you who are in Chennai would have been familiar with) was always positive accenting the good in public and pointing out the areas for improvement in one-on-one sessions with the artiste. I am of the same mold--there are so many good things to write about people like Mami/Mama in public life that it is a waste of time chasing some "alleged" insignificant infraction or transgressions.

Abe Lincoln said it aptly: Justice to All and Malice to none"--this is my motivation.
It so happens myself& my brother& sister-in-law( Dr. V.K.Balsubrahmanyan & Saroja) along with me were VERY CLOSE to M.S.& T.S. esp after their '[66 tour of North America. T.S. was very careful as infinite number of authors wanted to write a biography of M.S. The general view of those who did not know T.S. was that he was a "Tyrant" etc. BOTH of them were fully aware of such views thanks to close friends etc. T.S. used to ask a simple question of any prospective author: What is new that is NOT already known about M.S. you are going to write about? EVERY prospective author was stumped! T.S. was SMART THAT WAY. However TFS George whose claim to fame was his book on V.K.Krishna Menon which got awards etc who was hounding them for many many years got the plum opportunity. IT was a bad judgement taken when T.S. was not in good health- he might have passed away by then -
& I have to partly blame the ones close to M.S.S.-I am not here to name names- who showed poor judgement. When they had enough time they DID NOT do enough to prevent this outcome. After ALL the access to M.S. this "great Author" has come up with mostly what can kindly be called MOSTLY TRASH. His writing style is good but he has wasted the opportunity to write about one of the GREATEST SOULS WE HAVE SEEN IN OUR LIFE TIME by succumbing to base instincts.....Of course GREATNESS cannot be just brought down by UNSUBSTANTIATED claims as well as "great writing" hiding under the FACADE of writing truth.....vkv

I also want REFUTE all the non-sense about M.S. in her last months. I had met her to give the invitation to my son's wedding just less than 2 months before she passed away; SHE WAS AS bright, cheerful & as sharp as any time I had known her well in at least 50 years. Actually having dealt with M.S. for over 50 years as well as close to 25 Nobel Laurates I want to say I was more intimidated by the SHARPNESS, INTELLIGENCE & GENIUS OF M.S.! As Pithamagar SEM himself had observed" Her ability to absorb things was like Neruppu-fire-! JUST THE EYES & HER EXPRESSION WAS ENOUGH TO MAKE YOU THINK AT LEAST TWICE BEFORE YOU MADE A SERIOUS OBSERVATION....VKV
Last edited by cacm on 15 Aug 2009, 01:40, edited 1 time in total.

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