Raga Bhava- Pantuvarali

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Dhim
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#1 Raga Bhava- Pantuvarali

Post by Dhim » 08 Feb 2017, 13:51

Hi all,

I'm a Carnatic music student and I am singing kalpana swarams for Siva Siva Siva ena raada, a Thyagaraja krithi in the ragam Pantuvarali. I am fairly new to swarams and have never attempted swarams with Pantuvarali and therefore was wondering what the raga bhava of Pantuvarali is?

What notes need to be emphasised and what notes should not be emphasised? Should I emphasise the 'M' so it doesn't sound like Mayamalavagoula? and things like that. Your knowledge will be greatly appreciated! Thank you so much!!!
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Sachi_R
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#2 Re: Raga Bhava- Pantuvarali

Post by Sachi_R » 08 Feb 2017, 15:32

Dhim,
I am not a musician, but simply love CM and especially the raga Pantuvarali, which is also called Kamavardhini and Kashiramakriya.
I think this raga has fantastic musical and emotive impact and hence the very large repertoire of Thyagaraja kritis. And this is equally popular among Hindustani musicians as Puriya Dhanashri.

To sample different approaches of composers and singers to this raga, listen to the great masters. You will find fine renditions here:
http://chowdaiahandparvati.blogspot.in/ ... mavardhini

Similarly at Sangeethapriya.org

Also Youtube.

Try listening to Sri K V Narayanaswamy sing in this raga (he sang this raga often).

Singing swaras should ideally come after you have learnt at least 5-6 kritis in this raga and can do some alapana.

Musicians may kindly excuse my impertinence.
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Dhim
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#3 Re: Raga Bhava- Pantuvarali

Post by Dhim » 08 Feb 2017, 15:56

Sachi_R,

I too agree that this ragam is especially emotive, and has a calming effect. Thank you for your input, and I will definitely be listening to the great masters singing in this ragam. I have sung swarams before, just not for this ragam so will definitely be taking your advice on board.
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ratanabhinav
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#4 Re: Raga Bhava- Pantuvarali

Post by ratanabhinav » 08 Feb 2017, 21:30

In my humble opinion , Pantuvarali brings a mood that is similar to the mood you get during sunset and immediately after sunset ie, 5.30 - 6.30 pm . The mood is neither serious nor joyous , but something in between , a mix of two . It for Purvikalyani too.
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Dhim
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#5 Re: Raga Bhava- Pantuvarali

Post by Dhim » 09 Feb 2017, 14:20

Hi Ratanabhinav,

Thank you for your input! I was wondering if you may know what notes in this raaga need to be emphasised? Thank you so much!
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Sachi_R
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#6 Re: Raga Bhava- Pantuvarali

Post by Sachi_R » 09 Feb 2017, 18:56

Image

A perfect Pantuvarali alapana just now by the one and only Abhishek at SRLKM Spring fest, BGS!
Not more than five minutes, but what an alapana!
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Sachi_R
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#7 Re: Raga Bhava- Pantuvarali

Post by Sachi_R » 09 Feb 2017, 19:58

Sarame kani - Thyagaraja, sung with great bhava and clarity. Some outstanding niraval at Samaganaloludau rajatagiri, followed by typical breathtaking Abhishek trademark swaras. Charulatha, eho has been great today, was left in catch-up mode most of the time.
Then comes an Anantha supertani, in the beat tradition of Palghat Raghu... (Guruprasanna in catch-up mode)

I espy a Zoom 4 recorder on the stage. May some greal soul share this priceless piece of music... Amen
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ratanabhinav
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#8 Re: Raga Bhava- Pantuvarali

Post by ratanabhinav » 10 Feb 2017, 13:01

Respected Dhim ,
-> the phrase nsrs, nsrs, nsrs, is to be emphasised .
-> No nyasa or landing/stopping , on ga .
-> If at all you land on ga , it should be short and not for elongated time
-> No sancharam beyond mel shadja in pantuvarali ,
-> If at all sancharam is there beyond mel shadjam , it should be flashing and quick , like a super fast srgmgrs , and no expansive explorations or pauses in ga should be there beyond mel shadjam
-> da should be held flat can also be shaken sometimes , also jaru in some phrases
-> phrases with exploration around prati madhayamam can be exotic and lend a Hindustani flavour to the raga
-> Singing panchama , sadja varja phrases adds an exotic appeal to the raga.
-> Most importantly , so sancharam or exploration below kizh sthayi or mandara sthayi ni is permitted . You may just touch upon mandra sthayi da quickly and lightly for an effect , but no nyasa should be there
-> Hence , from the above , it is clear that the horizon for Pantuvarali is from mandra sthayi ni to tara sthayi ri with some flashing phrases beyond tara sthayi ri , like srgmgrs .

Bottomline : Pantuvarali is all about freedom with restrictions , exploration with boundaries . Not like a mohanam or hindolam where anything is allowed. But , what a treasure it holds within those boundaries uh ? !!!
Regard
Ratan Abhinav
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Dhim
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#9 Re: Raga Bhava- Pantuvarali

Post by Dhim » 12 Feb 2017, 12:13

Hello Sachi R,

Thank you for the video, that Alapana was amazing and to do that much in such a short time is a feat in itself!
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Dhim
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#10 Re: Raga Bhava- Pantuvarali

Post by Dhim » 12 Feb 2017, 12:16

Hi Ratan,

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with everyone on this forum! Your explanation of the raaga and what should be done in Kalpana swarams to achieve the raaga bhava, is helping me with my swarams a lot! Thank you again and your knowledge will definitely help others! Thank you!!!
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ratanabhinav
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#11 Re: Raga Bhava- Pantuvarali

Post by ratanabhinav » 12 Feb 2017, 13:14

Sorry , i committed a typing error
I had said in the 9th point ' Most importantly , so sancharam......be there '.

It is ' Most importantly , no sancharam or exploration below kizh sthayi or mandara sthayi ni is permitted . You may just touch upon mandra sthayi da quickly and lightly for an effect , but no nyasa should be there

Regard
Ratan Abhinav
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ratanabhinav
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#12 Re: Raga Bhava- Pantuvarali

Post by ratanabhinav » 12 Feb 2017, 15:38

Respected Dhim ,
Please note the above post . I have given a correction .
No mention , its a pleasure !

Regards
Ratan Abhinav
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varsha
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#13 Re: Raga Bhava- Pantuvarali

Post by varsha » 15 Feb 2017, 08:30

I too agree that this ragam is especially emotive, and has a calming effect
https://archive.org/details/BmkVarughaV ... antuvarALi
I agree . Always begins and ends like a well told detective story .
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sureshvv
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#14 Re: Raga Bhava- Pantuvarali

Post by sureshvv » 16 Feb 2017, 07:56

ratanabhinav wrote:
10 Feb 2017, 13:01
-> No nyasa or landing/stopping , on ga .
-> If at all you land on ga , it should be short and not for elongated time
-> No sancharam beyond mel shadja in pantuvarali ,
-> If at all sancharam is there beyond mel shadjam , it should be flashing and quick , like a super fast srgmgrs , and no expansive explorations or pauses in ga should be there beyond mel shadjam
-> Most importantly , so sancharam or exploration below kizh sthayi or mandara sthayi ni is permitted . You may just touch upon mandra sthayi da quickly and lightly for an effect , but no nyasa should be there
-> Hence , from the above , it is clear that the horizon for Pantuvarali is from mandra sthayi ni to tara sthayi ri with some flashing phrases beyond tara sthayi ri , like srgmgrs .
No offense intended, but can someone else validate this? I would never have guessed most of this having heard the raga many 100 times.
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ratanabhinav
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#15 Re: Raga Bhava- Pantuvarali

Post by ratanabhinav » 16 Feb 2017, 19:08

sureshvv wrote:
16 Feb 2017, 07:56
ratanabhinav wrote:
10 Feb 2017, 13:01
-> No nyasa or landing/stopping , on ga .
-> If at all you land on ga , it should be short and not for elongated time
-> No sancharam beyond mel shadja in pantuvarali ,
-> If at all sancharam is there beyond mel shadjam , it should be flashing and quick , like a super fast srgmgrs , and no expansive explorations or pauses in ga should be there beyond mel shadjam
-> Most importantly , so sancharam or exploration below kizh sthayi or mandara sthayi ni is permitted . You may just touch upon mandra sthayi da quickly and lightly for an effect , but no nyasa should be there
-> Hence , from the above , it is clear that the horizon for Pantuvarali is from mandra sthayi ni to tara sthayi ri with some flashing phrases beyond tara sthayi ri , like srgmgrs .
No offense intended, but can someone else validate this? I would never have guessed most of this having heard the raga many 100 times.
Respected sureshvv sir,
Hi , im Ratan Abhinav an avid rasika and student of our CM. I had written above whatever nuances and lakshanam i had learnt through my Guru , through lecdems , and listening experience , thats all . Im not any final authority or judge in this matter . different opinions may prevail on raga lakshanam . I just put across my little bit of observations and learning , that's all .

Regards
Ratan Abhinav
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sureshvv
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#16 Re: Raga Bhava- Pantuvarali

Post by sureshvv » 17 Feb 2017, 11:57

Ratan, did not mean to contradict you. Was just asking for confirmation from other experts, not being one myself, since some of the points you mention are counter intuitive. Anyway we are all here to learn and discuss, so please don't take this the wrong way.
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varsha
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#17 Re: Raga Bhava- Pantuvarali

Post by varsha » 20 Feb 2017, 09:36

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq-gcZT ... hare_email

close to halfway mark . bmk dips into this raga.beautiful !!!!!
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shankarank
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#18 Re: Raga Bhava- Pantuvarali

Post by shankarank » 03 Mar 2017, 11:09

https://youtu.be/86ngKDHZ9CI?t=1394 - contemplative even with virtuosity - again what is that he is touching in the endings few min into it d1, P, M2? - some glide between the 3?


https://youtu.be/-UNM3Gbo1CQ?list=RD-UNM3Gbo1CQ&t=285 - more a raging river! Sikkil Bhaskaran replies with a windish kArvai filled phrases.
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narayan
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#19 Re: Raga Bhava- Pantuvarali

Post by narayan » 08 Mar 2017, 21:31

sureshvv wrote:
16 Feb 2017, 07:56
ratanabhinav wrote:
10 Feb 2017, 13:01
-> No nyasa or landing/stopping , on ga .
-> If at all you land on ga , it should be short and not for elongated time
-> No sancharam beyond mel shadja in pantuvarali ,
-> If at all sancharam is there beyond mel shadjam , it should be flashing and quick , like a super fast srgmgrs , and no expansive explorations or pauses in ga should be there beyond mel shadjam
-> Most importantly , so sancharam or exploration below kizh sthayi or mandara sthayi ni is permitted . You may just touch upon mandra sthayi da quickly and lightly for an effect , but no nyasa should be there
-> Hence , from the above , it is clear that the horizon for Pantuvarali is from mandra sthayi ni to tara sthayi ri with some flashing phrases beyond tara sthayi ri , like srgmgrs .
No offense intended, but can someone else validate this? I would never have guessed most of this having heard the raga many 100 times.
Suresh, I'm pretty sure this has been discussed here and elsewhere. It is certainly not followed in most alapanas today, but all the commonly heard Tyagaraja songs (Siva siva, apparama bhakti, raghuvara, ninne nera namminanura, narada muni, vadera daivamu, shambho mahadeva) stick to the pattern mentioned above. So there must be something to this style of rendering this raga.
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sureshvv
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#20 Re: Raga Bhava- Pantuvarali

Post by sureshvv » 08 Mar 2017, 21:56

how about neraval & swaras? No extended tara sthayee? No pauses at ga?
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ratanabhinav
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#21 Re: Raga Bhava- Pantuvarali

Post by ratanabhinav » 11 Mar 2017, 20:23

Respected sureshvv

In past years , ie hundred years ago , ragas were handled differently. They were not looked upon as a scale . Scalar rendition was not present . Each raga had its own swaras to emphasise . Not all swraras would get same emphasis . This was done to create a distinct rasa and raga swaroopa suitable for rakti singing. For example , you can try play kanada on violin giving equal emphasis or same type of handling to each and every swara ....it won't turn out good . When particular swrars are 'directed' to be handled in a particular way , it sounds aesthetic and has great appeal . The same ga is handled differently in saveri and sankarabharanam . So when inventing ragas , it is important to fix the range of the raga , and also to determine the handling of notes in the raga , rather than mere creation of asc, desc,. This s one of the reasons why pantuvarali and so many other ragas have such lakshanams .
Also yadukulakamboji , anandabhairavi , huseni etc
Regard
Ratan Abhinav
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thenpaanan
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#22 Re: Raga Bhava- Pantuvarali

Post by thenpaanan » 13 Mar 2017, 20:10

Which brings up the question: what of the bhava in 'SObhAnE'? It is not just pantuvarali transposed half an octave but the stresses on the notes and the gamakas are different. Are these shades of pantuvarALi mixable or mutually exclusive?

-Thenpaanan
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shankarank
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#23 Re: Raga Bhava- Pantuvarali

Post by shankarank » 14 Mar 2017, 09:25

SObhAnE - per tyagaraja ramAyaNam of BramhaSri Balakrishna Sastrigal is sung after the kalyANam ( pavanaja stuti pAtra) - IIRC. He does not sing that like what a professional musician https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsLjh-YfiDo sings like - but he provided the context as to why she might sing it like that! She does sing it like a padam or jAvaLi!
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