Raga phrases riding on consonant extensions

[vasanthakokilam]

Thanks Arasi. Listened to a version now. Yes, there are those swara changing 'm' extensions, especially a slide down to the next lower swara. The 'm' of rAmam is an extension on the same swara but put to good effect, I think. M is the master of M

[cmlover]

Of course the anuswaras are almost as important as the vowels.
Nice to note that 'il' has the same felicity of riding the notes without moving the tongue or lips! On the other hand with 'ik' or 'ip' or ic' the tongue or lips are stuck tight and there is no relief wtihout seeking help from the vowels. In fact 'iL' also has the same felicity whereas 'izh' does not. 'ir' has the trill which is too rough for CM music but is still msical elsewhere with its airplane rumble
It is nice and educational to explore the intrinsic 'musical fitness' of each letters of our alphabet.
Thanks VK for the stimulating idea!

[arasi]

VK has Very Keen ears for such not oft-thought of stuff and it helps me grow a bit in my lateral thinking, I suppose

[cmlover]

VK = Lateral thinking
Arasi = Backward thinking ( looking into past!)
Arun = Forward thinking (always innovative/incisive)
...

[vasanthakokilam]

I see what you did there Arasi. Very keen indeed.

I do not really know what lateral thinking is, but it sounds cool, I will take it!!

We now have a football team

CML, I am glad you added the parenthetical meaning to backward. In reality, Arasi looks in all three directions equally well, so she is an LBFer.

[cmlover]

You are quite right VK!
The word 'arasi' can be derived from sanskrit 'RiShi' with the 'a' pratyayam!
And RiShi intrinsically is 'darshaka' (the Seer(in all directions) ) in vedic sense which in Tamil is 'paarpaan'
whose feminine is 'pAppAtthi' (exclude the derogatory meaning) and she is the best
of its kind!

[arunk]

vk,

you may be able to find more of these consonant extensions in varnams m.., n.., n...c, n..k, even v.... (for example, viriboni has a fairly large extension on "v" in its charanam).

Arun

[arasi]

'pAr'pAthiyO (darsaka) allavO?
thI vaLarthEnO illaiyO?
pATTiyAip paravasam koLvadu maTTum
maTTilAduNDu, uNDu!

[thenpaanan]

It will sound inelegant as you have rightly put it if you sing kuril (hrsva) 'i'. At that place there is nothing wrong in singing it as dheerga but see to it that the dheerga (ArAdeetAbja) does not prolong too much. That will give rise to another kind of inelegance. Your e-mail query on whether we can split it as sumanasa ArAdita abja mukhi and sing, well, the tALa does not seem to allow it unless you rush it and that will again sound inelegant. But we'll see if other forumites have a different idea.

I respectfully disagree. I think it would sound just as good if we sang 'ArAdhitAbja-mukhi' where the emphasis and elongation/shake is transferred from 'dhi' to 'tA'. It is just that we dont by common practice (i would not elevate it with the word "sampradAyam'). To be sure there are many places where it seems quite a challenge to be mindful of the long and short vowels but this one is not one of those in my opinion.

Of course in reality the line is sung more like "sumana sArA dhI tAbja mukhi' but that is for another thread.

-Thenpaanan

[vasanthakokilam]

Thanks Arun. Yes, I see what you say about 'v' in the charanam of Viriboni. When you wrote 'n..k' you mean extension on 'n' ending in 'k' or extension on 'k' itself? I thought 'k' is not possible given that it is a plosive.

CML: Can you please explain Anuswara with some examples. I read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anuswara but I do not quite get it.

[Govindaswamy]

In posting # 14 I have made a wrong statement " The mouth is open while pronouncing the nasal consonants also." I had in mind the uyirmei letters (உயிர்மெய்-) #na,~na,Na,na,ma,na and not the consonants (மெய்யெழுத்துகள்) #n,~n,N,n,m,n which you are calling as stop consonants. I stand corrected.

All of us agree that any vowel sound can be stretched, whereas only few consonats can.
The extension of the following consonants are under discussion.
l/ல் ల్, ಲ್, ല്, ल्
m/ம் మ్, ಮ್, മ് , म्
N/ண், ణ్, ಣ್, ണ്, ण्
n/ன், న్, ನ್, ന്, न्
y/ய் య్, ಯ್, യ്. य्
and v/வ்,వ్., ವ್, വ്, व्
I felt that the origin of the letters determine whether they can be strtched or not ,during singing. So I referred to பிறப்பியல் (piRappiyal- origin of letters) in தொல்காப்பியம் (tolkAppiyam –tamizh grammar), because of my curiosity to know if where the 'stop consonant' ends may determine the ease or otherwise of extending it. My findings are given below.

1. When tip of tongue touches roots of top teeth 'l' /ல், is born. The mouth remaining open probably makes extension of 'l' possible. (Incidentally mouth is open while pronouncing vowels). As I already suggested in the kriti 'kAru vElpulu nIku sari' (Other Gods won’t become equal to You) does vElpulu become vElupulu while strtching 'l' ? Is the 'l' in the tamizh song ஆறுமோ ஆவல் (ArumO Aval- Will my desire get satisfied) is the 'l' at the end getting extended?
2. 'm'/ ம் is born when lips meet. Extension of 'm' is very common in songs and it is possible only with mouth closed. Probably the elongation is totally nasal. Words with 'm' ending are very many in dhIkshitar's songs, as in mantrAs like 'suklAmbharadharam vishNum'. tyAgarAjA's Sanskrit kriti 'nAda tanum ainsam' has also number of words with 'm' ending.
3. When the tongue bends and the tip touches the palate N/ண் is produced. Rsachi has pointed out the song 'kaDaik kaN'. In this case also the mouth is open, which probably this makes it easy to stretch the consonant.
VK- You have commented as " Especially, kaDai kaN, the extension on 'N' is quite novel and catchy." My doubt is whether the vowel 'u' makes a subtle appearance.

4 . 'n. is born when the tip of the tongue bends and touches upper palate at the roots of teeth. Here also the mouth is open.

5. 'y' is born when air is blown with mouth open. Even in the film song வராய் நீ வாராய் (you come) y is strtched.
6. 'v, is born when top teeth touch bottom lip. Top lip is open.
Arunk- You have mentioned "v maybe? e.g. MMI's sukhi ev.....varO "
The actual word is . evaRo. Please see the following songs : evarani nirNayincirirA, evarikai avatAramettitivo, evariccirirA Sara, evaritO nE telpudu, evari mATa vinnAvO, evarurA ninnu vinA. There are many more.
If MMI added an extra 'v' there is nothing wrong. Whatever he sang was melodious.

I am coming to the conclusion that the consonants ending with mouth open can be stretched. 'm' seems to be the major exception because nose takes over. In the song Sobhillu saptaswara, tyAgarAja mentions nose as the last place of saptaswarAs (nAsAdulayandu).

Though not having in depth knowledge of the science of music, I have dared to comment being a rasika.

[cmlover]

Arun
Now I am totally lost (like VK)
How can one prolong 'k' or 'c' ?
VK
There are innumerable instances of anuswara extensions; some beautiful ones are by Chembai or Musiri (the master of nasality)!
Even arasi's example of the 'M' is a beautiful illustration.
Your illuminating example of non-anuswara 'l' was a revelation!
'L' will follow as a corolloray.
I am not too sure about 'v' since it it is not sustainable.
Remember the prolongation of ஞ் (gnya) by TMS in ThiruviLayaDal as a prelude to Gowrimanohari?

[arunk]

vk - yes the nasal part of nk/nc etc. is what is extended - cant extend ka, ca etc. as those consonants are stop and "unvoiced". Anuswaras are all over the place in CM. An easy example I can think of (hopefully this is a right example!): many times, even what may be perceived casually as a long flat note may not be rendered completely flat from beginning to end, but is approached from another note at the start for a fraction then held flat. For example, a p , may actually be (s/)p i.e. that pa would be taken from sa albeit very quickly (that it doesnt look like an obvious slide), and thus here sa is the anuswara.

cml - While musicians cant/dont, rasikas extend "c" all the time, albeit as a staccato tch. tch. tch. and shaking their heads in rhthmic at a concert

govindaswamy sir - yes thanks for the correction

Arun

[vasanthakokilam]

Arun, CML, Govindaswamy: Thanks all.

Arun, on Anuswara, I understand the musical meaning of it. But CML and the wiki page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anusvara seem to talk about it in the context of languages and sounds. It seems to be related to this subject as CML implies but I can not understand what it actually is from the Wiki description. It sounds too technical and I do not quite understand the meager examples provided. If it refers to the sound before the consonant, then it may not be related to this topic. I am not sure.

Govindaswamy: Thanks for the exhaustive treatment. I understand.

Now, more than ever, I am convinced that the 12 consonants can be extended with different levels of difficulty or ease. As you wrote, the mouth needs to be open for the air to flow freely through the mouth or the air has to freely flow through the nose ( with the tongue not blocking the internal nose hole! )

All, try this. the 12 consonants that are extendable are: ( from Tamil since that is what I am familiar with, but it should apply to other CM languages as well ):

( #n,~n,N,n,m,n. ) ங்,ஞ்,ண்,ந்,ம்,ன் - (soft consonants - மெல்லினம் - mellinam )
(y,r,l,v,zh,L ) ய்,ர்,ல்,வ்,ழ்,ள் (middle between hard and soft - இடையினம் - iDaiyinam )

Try to sing the following in Mohanam with the consonant extensions for each swara of the arohanam and avarohanam

Arohanam: v, r, y, l, L, zh
Avarohanam: zh, L, l, y, r, v

Arohanam: #n,~n,N,n,m,n
Avarohanam: n, m, n, N, -n, #n

Vocal anatomy for sound production wise, It is not impossible to do. Whether it is typically extended in CM songs is a different question. Just for fun, pay attention to the movement of the tongue as you do this, it travels around the entire palate!!

For the other 6 consonants ( the hard ones ), whether they are voiced (e.g. 'g') or unvoiced (e.g 'k' ), it is not possible to extend.

Arun, you said 'the nasal part of nk/nc etc. is what is extended - cant extend ka, ca etc. as those consonants are stop and "unvoiced".', can you clarify which sounds they are, and why the k and c at the end matter. Second, do you imply that voiced versions of 'k' and 'c' is extendable?

[cmlover]

VK
I would cautiously add ஹ் to your list.
I am sure MD has used the visargam elsewhere which can be prolonged with limitations. I will look for an example.

[arunk]

What I meant is that when you are extending a "nk" part of e.g. vEnkatEswara, you are extending the nasal part (i.e. #n), and at the end only introduce the "k" sound (to transition to ka). That is somewhat stating the obvious.

I think anuswara in CM while may have originated from linguistic concepts is quite different in application at-least how we treat it today. I would not be surprised if these terms have evolved and maybe even completely changed in meaning over time.

Anuswara in scripts: In telugu and kannada scripts, the anuswara letter is used for #n, ~n, as well as m (as in karuNimpa). I am not 100% sure but I believe the phoneme is still #n, ~n here and not a separate common anuswara phoneme (although I have seen tamil CM books notate in tamizh as caMdra - as if you would have to pronounce it that way - i believe that is not correct). In sanskrit, I have heard that this (always using anuswara) is not the case i.e. in some cases it would be #nka and in some cases it would Mka (M => anuswara), and I think it depends on the root word etc. (??). Although here also some people in practice use the telugu/kannada schemes of always using anuswara
(Note/Caveat/Warning: I picked these up when implementing the transliterator - my knowledge is still second-hand only).

Arun

[vasanthakokilam]

Thanks Arun. I get it now.

[Govindaswamy]

arunk

Anuswara in scripts: In telugu and kannada scripts, the anuswara letter is used for #n, ~n, as well as m (as in karuNimpa)

I would like to make the following addition. In Telugu and Kannada the letter representing anuswara is sunna 'o'. The anuswara adds a sound similar to the sound of m in "sum" to the syllable. I do not know if there is any difference in pronunciation between anuswara and 'm' ending. (e.g) धनं (dhanam, wealth) and दानम् (dAnam). You have mentioned that the anuswara letter is used for #n, ~n, as well as m (as in karuNimpa). Let me add that the sunna replaces all the nasal consonants, #na,~na,Na,ma,na ఙ్,ఞ్,ణ్,న్,మ్, ங்,ஞ்,ண்,ந்,ம்,ன். Hence these letters have become redundant. The sunna preceding different consonants takes the sound fitting the following consonamt. (e.g) #nka, ~nca ,Nta etc.
TamizhargaL find it strange that one symbol can take different nasal sounds, because Tamizh uses the respective consonants. I also, belonging to a Telugu family settled in TamizhNaDu few generations ago, found this to be strange when I started learing Telugu. During learning Telugu, some are likely to read as pamkajam, பம்கஜம் emta nErcinA, எம்த நேர்சினா etc.

What I meant is that when you are extending a "nk" part of e.g. vEnkatEswara, you are extending the nasal part (i.e. #n), and at the end only introduce the "k" sound (to transition to ka). That is somewhat stating the obvious.

The two examples given are karunimpa and vEnkatEswara. In the first one anuswara becoming 'm' is legitimate because it belongs to the same group,viz, pa, pha,ba &bha. In vemkatEswara 'n' obviously becomes #n and not the anuswara 'm'.

[vasanthakokilam]

Govindaswamy, thanks. I learned a lot from the above post as to what anuswara is and how general it is ( meaning not just restricted to the m sound but can bring in all the nasal sounds based on context, did I get that right? ). I think you should enhance the content in Wikipedia. While reading that, I did not understand to this extent at all.

[cmlover]

In sanskrit and it oriented languages where the 'bindu' is used, it masks the origin of the sound which is to be inferred from the preceding letter, whereas there is no ambiguity in Tamil.
Historically that shows that Tamil evolved independantly.
Am I right?

[keerthi]

In sanskrit and it oriented languages where the 'bindu' is used, it masks the origin of the sound which is to be inferred from the preceding letter, whereas there is no ambiguity in Tamil.
Historically that shows that Tamil evolved independently.

Not true. CML, sanskRt most definitely uses the nasal of the respective varga in both spelling and pronunciation. It is a vagary of time that we have come to a degree of sloppiness, where the anuswAra is used for all nasals in languages like Hindi, KannaDa and Telugu. This most certainly is a recent development, that has crept even into the Apte SanskRt dictionary.

Also, script is much in a phase lag vis-a-vis the development of language and literary culture, that it can hardly be used as a reliable marker to trace the development of languages.

You have mentioned that the anuswAra letter is used for #n, ~n, as well as m (as in karuNimpa). Let me add that the sunna replaces all the nasal consonants, #na,~na,Na,ma,na ఙ్,ఞ్,ణ్,న్,మ్, ங்,ஞ்,ண்,ந்,ம்,ன். Hence these letters have become redundant. The sunna preceding different consonants takes the sound fitting the following consonant. (e.g) #nka, ~nca ,Nta etc.

TamizhargaL find it strange that one symbol can take different nasal sounds, because Tamizh uses the respective consonants. I also, belonging to a Telugu family settled in TamizhnADu few generations ago, found this to be strange when I started learing Telugu. During learning Telugu, some are likely to read as pamkajam, பம்கஜம் emta nErcinA, எம்த நேர்சினா etc.

Please see here

I do not know if there is any difference in pronunciation between anuswara and 'm' ending. (e.g) धनं (dhanam, wealth) and दानम् (dAnam).

This one is easy to answer. There is no difference in the pronunciation of the anuswAra [अं] and the makAra with a halanta [म्]. There is a rule about when each of them is used in writing. This is even described as a sandhi called anuswAra-sandhi [sUtra - mOnuswAraH] according to which

1. the m at the end of a word is converted to anuswAra if followed by a (word beginning with a) consonant.
e.g. रामं भजेहम् not रामम् भजेहम्

2. If the word ending with 'm' is followed by a (word beginning with a vowel, or
e.g. रामम् आराधये not रामं आराधये

2.5. if the word is at the end of a line in a verse or at the end of a sentence, it is retained as म्.

e.g. नीलाम्बुद-श्यामल-कोमलाङ्गं सीता-समारोपित-वाम-भागम् |
पाणौ महासायक-चारु-चापं नमामि रामं रघुवंश-नाथम् ||

[cmlover]

Thanks keerthi for the clarification.
There is no confusion on the use of anuswara as from Panini. The problem arises only in the notation which is of later origin. Even Apte uses them correctly after the right letters alphabetically which however confuses the transliterations, especially into Tamil which uses separate letters for the anuswarams.

Sanskrit also uses anunasika (the one with the chandra kala) which is distinguished from the anuswara (Pan 1.1.08). Whereas the pure nasal is anuswara,the anunasika is different inasmuch as in pronouncing it breath passes through the nose and the mouth (मुखनासिका). In vedic recitations it plays an important role. There are no equivalent notations in Tamil (or other dravidian languages AFAIK) for this. Please enlighten me if you know of any. Has MD ever used it in his kritis? Or more generally does it play a role in CM except in Vedic recitations?

[arunk]

Thanks for an excellent link.

With some apprehension, I dare wonder if some of these mechanics is theory overriding practice (not uncommon in language and music - theories sometimes treats things as black and white, when practice is a greyscale) rather than just reflecting then current practices of a then widely spoken language - but i admit that i am hypothesizing here).

Or perhaps, they are meant for very specific contexts as in recitation of vedas etc.

I wonder because I am intrigued particularly by the meaning of the statement:

The anuswAra is an after-sound, a nasal sound following a vowel. It is sounded through the nose only and should be independent of mouth position.

I may be misinterpreting things here but it seems to me it is not possible to have the aural properties of a sound emitted through the nose be completely unaffected by the mouth position (closed, half-open, fully-open, wide-open). That seems to be required for the above statement to hold true and which would be required for the anuswara to have an uniquely assignable sound.

Arun

[Rsachi]

Guys on a related subject, i just read that someone has done some massive research to find out why coffee that smells so good while brewing doesn't taste as good when sipped. They found out that the anu-nasika effects of coffee smell work in the opposite way since coffee when sipped tickles the smell sense via the mouth-nasal passage, and therefore we are a bit underwhelmed while drinking coffee. All along I have smelt that something lies deeply hidden in all these related matters and now I get that exhilarating sense of clarity so well depicted in those old ads for Halls Metholyptus Vapour Action Ke Saath.

PS wanted to add a telling smiley but found no smiley shows the nose!

[cmlover]

Arun
anunasika is used primarily in vedic recitations with its particular enunciation. It is not distinguished by the participation of the mouth.
In fact in all the anuswaras all of nose, throat, tongue, lips (the whole vocal apparatus) participate in varying degrees!

Should the anuswaras always be on a high pitch?

[cmlover]

Rsachi
Sometimes even the word "coffee" can evoke tastes and emotions which do not corrrelate with the actual product
We are accessing different neural pathways of the brain in each case and memory does play tricks!

[vasanthakokilam]

CML, in the interest of preciseness and clarity let me nitpick. Officially, as per the link Keerthi provided about which you agreed, there is only one 'anuswara sound (M)'. Rest of the nasals are not Anuswara. Why are you then still using it in plural form like 'anuswarAs'?

That nitpick aside, I am confused about exactly how it is to be sounded. 'an after-sound, a nasal sound following a vowel' does not tell me much. Adding to the confusion is the rather categorical statement in that link that it is not sounded as the 'm' in 'Simha'. In what way, that is different from 'm' as we know it. Keerthi's examples are very understandable but they seem, at the outset, to be at odds with the statement that it is not same as 'simha'. Can one of you clarify exactly what that ONE official anuswAra sound is?

[cmlover]

VK
Your nitpick is legitimate. Keerthi is going by the strict definition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anusvara
On the other hand I am using it as a synonym for the 'bindu' which is the usage in practice.
Strictly the sanskrit word 'anuswara' means 'after the sound' implying the nasality component.
There is no confusion as long as we understand the usage.
Would you prefer the use of 'bindus' ?
I am also confused at Keerthi when he stated that anuswara is not the same sound as in 'simha'!
It is transliterated as the m (with the dot below) which is usually sounded as 'm'.
I know anunasika is distinctly different.....

[manikan7]

Hi all... I was going through all of your comments.... I just want to give my opinion here... Just that we have rules where the Sandhi is put. And we have alabedai for the letters where vowels and consonants are extended.... We are used to extending the last letter and yes as all of you have given ample examples we extend the Mellinam and Idayinam Letters irrespective of their position..... The Ka Cha tha Pa and Ra which are in the Mei form are never in the last of the word without the following words starting in the Same sandhi.... the words which have two consonants like Ekkalathilum unnai maravamal.... We pronounce K less than that of normal K.... This is my opinion.... This may be the reason why we are not using the K C T P R in the stressing phrases... And the letter next to such consonants get more stress in meaning and the Song.... As for as other languages my knowledge is limited. So I request you all to enlighten the Intricacies......

Thanks,
Manikandan.S

[thanjavooran]

May I also add that I think consonants involve the tongue and hence give structure (=laya), texture and inflection to vocal expressions. Hence all konnakol uses consonants. That also means vocals by far excel instrumentals in impact if not in sweetness or strength.

As I write this, I am listening to MMI+LGJ+PSP!

Enjoy konnakol. There are young experts besides the living legend Thiuchi Thayumanavar.

Very excited to kickoff MadRasana Unplugged Season 03 Check it out.

https://youtu.be/iurhjlBum0o

Thanjavooran
12 01 2018

[Ranganayaki]

Without thinking, the consonant extensions that came to mind at once are in the pallavi of the song Sari Evvaramma in Bhairavi, by Syama Sastri. The extensions occur on the consonants /v/ and /m/

Definitely these extensions are strong raga phrases in a nutshell, but then which sangati is not?