kaatrinile varum geetham

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 23 Mar 2007, 23:53

DRS,
What do you think of kAtrinile varum gItam (the song)?

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 23 Mar 2007, 23:54

Hold on Ksrimech

There IS a rAga sAvitri as janya of harikAmbOdhi- scale is

SG3M1PN2S* | S*NPMGS ||

This is very close to tilang (hAh

This is what cittiraccevvAnam is based on. MSS song does not have this flavour at all.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 23 Mar 2007, 23:55

rshankar wrote:DRS,
What do you think of kAtrinile varum gItam (the song)?

It is a lovely song

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 23 Mar 2007, 23:55

YES..Indeed.

Although a tad too melancholic for a love song. But what is the rAgam?

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 23 Mar 2007, 23:57

With all this hullabulla about this song, perhaps it should be called kAtrinile pOgum gItam!

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 23 Mar 2007, 23:57

Ravi- I answered it. I am unable to pin it down to a/one rAga. So I just ignored it and "enjoyed" the "lovely" song.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 23 Mar 2007, 23:59

OK...I feel better - try as I could, I could not appreciate SB in it (atleast what I think is SB)...

BTW, I think Jutika Roy's original was a rabIndra sangIt piece - do they have special/separate rAgs?

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 24 Mar 2007, 00:01

rshankar wrote:BTW, I think Jutika Roy's original was a rabIndra sangIt piece - do they have special/separate rAgs?

Not that I am aware of.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Mar 2007, 00:25

Those were the early days of MS when she was singing lot of meera bhajans and filmy songs. That was also the time she mesmarized gandhiji with her magnetic rendering of Ram dhun. No doubt this song is more a HM variant which we cannot incarcerate into a CM straitjacket!
Shall we just say no to SB and call quits

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 24 Mar 2007, 00:40

SB is out I think. This one has D2. Also no R1 that i can tell (but has R2)

It just has resemblance to SB in some places (to some people i guess).

Arun

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Mar 2007, 00:44

I wonder whether MS (or anybody else) ever sang it as a thukkada in a concert!

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 24 Mar 2007, 00:47

i think sudha raghunathan sang it in a cleveland aradhana concert (became a special concert remembering MSS)

Arun

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 24 Mar 2007, 00:49

Lots of contemporary female artistes seem to sing the song in concerts- Sudha yes, And IIRC Bombay Jayashree as well.

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 24 Mar 2007, 01:55

drshrikaanth wrote:Hold on Ksrimech

There IS a rAga sAvitri as janya of harikAmbOdhi- scale is

SG3M1PN2S* | S*NPMGS ||

This is very close to tilang (hAh
This is what cittiraccevvAnam is based on. MSS song does not have this flavour at all.

DRSji I dont know what to say or how to hold on as I have no admissible basis. Sorry but thanks for clarifying.

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 24 Mar 2007, 02:54

rshankar:

BTW, I think Jutika Roy's original was a rabIndra sangIt piece - do they have special/separate rAgs?

It's interesting you bring up Rabindra Sangeet. I've always wondered why a RS piece is not included in the thukkada section of CM concerts. If we can have Javalis and Abhangs, why not Rabindra Sangeet? For some sample RS audio, visit: http://www.calcuttaweb.com/gaan/rabindra/index.shtml

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 24 Mar 2007, 04:39

One of our friends belongs to the Arya samAj, and when he and his wife celebrated the 'naming' ceremony for their daughter, his sister (a graduate in rabIndra sangIt from shAntinikEtan) sang many, many songs throughout the ceremony - I could identify dES, dwijAvanTi, and even pUrvikalyANI...(or atleast, that is what they sounded to me!) - very melodious!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Mar 2007, 06:26

Folks
I don't flog a dead horse! But here is something for your attention. I located Sikkil mala chandrasekhar rendering katrinile
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/sJK ... As1NMvHdW/
Pl hear it. It is very close to MS and quite classical.
Now I reversed the song in my computer (did some filtering to get rid of objectionable rasping noise) and here it is
http://www.sendspace.com/file/nhh7xs
You could very distinctly hear SB (mostly). Hence I feel whatever MS is singing (be it RS) is a reverse form of SB. If you all approve I will christen the raga as
virabhaidunsi

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 24 Mar 2007, 06:46

CML - interesting stuff. The reversed music sounded more like Ratipatipriya to me, esp towards the end.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Mar 2007, 06:52

That is why I said mostly. These are not pure ragas!

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 24 Mar 2007, 07:07

by the way i found on sawf.org that nowadays sindubhairavi is sung with both dhaivatas. So presence of D2 doesnt mean no sindubhairavi (but then sindubhairavi pretty much takes everything

)

Arun

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 24 Mar 2007, 07:22

CML, thanks for finding that Sikkil Sisters link. That is quite melodious. It is quite weird that I find quite a bit of sindhu bhairavi in that version but not while listening to the MSS version. I don't know where to park that observation

I then listened to your reversed one... first feeling was... hmmm. this is in the raga as katrinile..So virabhaidunsi is just a 21st centruy re-formulation of the good old SB

I think we should put back SB as a strong candidate for KVG.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Mar 2007, 08:27

VK

Sindhu Bhairavi can stand a sparing use
of Antara G also ! In fact in Hindustani system
this rAga is called Dvadashi Bhairav since it
can take all the 12 notes.

by KVRP in
http://forumhub.com/indcmusic/29790.17.20.14.html
which also gives Lakshman's various aro/avaro
Since SB is undefinable I guess so would virabhaidunsi(VBD)
also be

We can request DRS to compose a nice lullaby in VBD (or if you prefer KVG) raga

Seriously worth experimenting!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 02 Apr 2007, 21:44

Nithyasree sang kAtrinile varum geetham yesterday and at the end of the song, she announced that the raga is 'Misra Sindhubhairavi'.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Apr 2007, 21:46

Can somebody explain what 'misra' means in the CM context?

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 02 Apr 2007, 22:15

cmlover wrote:Can somebody explain what 'misra' means in the CM context?

I once asked the same question with maharAjapuram rAmachandran when he sang a tillAna in mishra sivaranjani.
He told me that misra means mix and also gave an example of how shivaranjani becomes misra shivaranjani when you have mix two gAndharam. But that is his explanation, most of the time this keyword misra is slipping me for ever.I am always assuming for every "misra XYZ" rAga there is always a "XYZ" rAga

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 02 Apr 2007, 22:21

rajeshnat wrote:
cmlover wrote:Can somebody explain what 'misra' means in the CM context?
I am always assuming for every "misra XYZ" rAga there is always a "XYZ" rAga

miSrization

if you want to call it is a borrowed phenomenon from Hindustani..

Rajeshnat, I think your assumption is correct

-Ramakriya

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Apr 2007, 23:19

Then is 'misrs' raga akin to a 'bhAShAnga raga ?

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 03 Apr 2007, 03:26

Pandit Ravi Shankar, in a concert last year to mainly western audiences, played his last piece ( after the main piece) in misra-kamaj. While announcing the song he said that this gives him more freedom to play ( and play with ) a variety of things. It was a fast paced song and he mixed it up with some familiar melodies like from 'Yankee Doodle Dandy' etc. The audience immediately recognized that even though it was still very much in the light HM idiom. The chittaswarams from Raghu Vamsa sudha also made its appearance. So, my take from that experience is that misra prefix in HM is ( Base raga + a whole lot more )

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 03 Apr 2007, 08:03

I would interpret the sanskrit word 'misra' as contaminated as the opposite of 'shuddha'. The question is what is the contamination ? Anya svaras or any ragas too? ILayarAja for example mixes a lot of raga phrases; will they pass for a misra raga with the major raga termed as misra raga?

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 03 Apr 2007, 08:40

My Dad used to always claim that his bathroom singing was about Misra Ragas only- an acknlowdgement that he could never get a raga right !!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 03 Apr 2007, 09:02

If the pants don't fit, don't blame the taylor, just enjoy his misra kanakku

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 03 Apr 2007, 09:41

CML uvAca:

sh^RiNu tatvam pravakShyAmi
guhyam guhyatamam |
purA kulkarNi pitrA prOktam
kAlEna mahatA naShTaH rasikAH ||

snAnag^Riha janita misra rAgam sukhaM
g~nAnapradam tALa rahitam svAtmak^Ritam
salila Ardrita sh^RingAra shruti sahitam
sArva jana ra~njakam mukti dAyakam ||

Etat karmam kurvan nityam
tri sandhyam shraddhAnvitaH |
sarvaiH pramucyatE pa^nkaiH
kalpAyuta shatOdbhavaiH ||

idam satyam idam satyam
satyamEtad ihOcyatE ||

meena · Post by **meena** » 03 Apr 2007, 09:43

VK

haha good one.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 20 May 2008, 00:01

In this link, there are 4 lovely songs by Jutika Roy (there are 2 versions of one song) - I could identify at least 2 tunes from this set that were subsequently immortalized by Smt. MSS in movies. Can you identify them?

http://sangeethamshare.org/murthy/004-M ... -songs.zip

tmohan · Post by **tmohan** » 20 May 2008, 13:46

I have listened to this song in a SPIC MACAY concert of MSS held at Ethiraj college in 1990 enthralling the audence , who were mostly students.

In 1980, at Madurai she rendered this song, in addition to the one more famous " vanDiam muralum solai" in tODi. The Chief Guest, MGR commented that the concert was better than any of her performance he listened to at Madras adding that she was partial to her hometown.

To me, VJ's " kaNDEn engum...kARRinilE varum gItam " sounds in the scale of madhyamAvati.. probably closer to mEgh, not madmad sArang which is quite vibrant like the climax song of mIrA.

Mohan

ps: This is definitely not Sindhu Bhairavi. As mentioned by somebody, has touches of ratipatipriya also.

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 20 Aug 2021, 22:28

The song as we all know, is from the Thamizh film Meera (-1945.). The ragam of this song (tune) is very often mentioned as Rathipathipriya. The defining song for Rathipathipriya is MM DandapaNi Desikar's classic 'Jagajjanani '. Though Kaatrinile and Jagajjanani may sound similar in the opening line, the tunes diverge very much in the stanzas. MMD song gets closer to Aaberi-Beemplaas-Karnataka DeaGandhari.

The song by MMD Desikar is the last but one in the page cited below
https://sites.google.com/site/hindustha ... /beemplaas
It is simply majestic!...'veda vedaanta gnana swaroopini' ,There is no such sancharam in MS song.

As @rshankar mentions, it is mostly jonpuri with a tint of Hindusthani Bairavi ( not Sindhu Bairavi). When CM listeners mention Jonpuri, many are familiar with 'Aasai mukam maRanthu poacchae'' in Jonpuri ( a great rendering by NCV - now nowhere to be located in the web)..( incidentally, more representative of the ragam than 'eppo varuvaaro') and a good number of Tamizh films songs like 'Naadakamellaam kanden' in Mathurai Veeran ( a duet), are closer to the tune.

Moreover, the Meera film has Andha NaaLum vanthidaatho which is straight Sindhubairavi. And there is one more tune ' Engum Nirainthaaye' which is Hindusthani Bairavi. with Darbari shades?

SV Venkataraman was not a music composer so bereft of ragams to handle , to repeat himself in the same film.

Kaatrinile tune is exactly the same tune as in Aajaa Sanam a duet in 1955 film Chori Chori ( music by Shankar Jaikishan). and for HM jonpuri we have Talat 's Jayen thu Jaye kahan' (was it Taxi Driver')? and another earlier gazal by Talat ( meri yaadh...aansoon bahana') .
@ganesh_mourthy may know all these classics
of the 1950-1960 decade

The correct conclusion is that it is Misra-Jonpuri rather than Misra-Sindhubairavi.
( this post was prompted by the latest upload of Jaffna concert of Smt.MS - uploaded by Nadha Brunga- where the raagam is mentioned as Rathipathipriya)

rasikas.org

kaatrinile varum geetham

Re: kaatrinile varum geetham