Malahari - Sree Gananatha

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bharathudu
Posts: 3
Joined: 14 Mar 2017, 01:55

Malahari - Sree Gananatha

Post by bharathudu »

Greetings all!

First post, thus please excuse and correct any mistakes.

I like Carnatic Music a lot, but am a beginner in understanding the underlying thought.
I am trying to understand the concept of raga.

Please refer to this song 'Sree Gananatha', http://www.shivkumar.org/music/varnams/ ... eetham.pdf
The raga is given as : Malahari
with Arohana & Avarohana as
ARO: S R1 M1 P D1 S ||
AVA: S D1 P M1 G3 R1 S ||

Here the song has the following phrase in the second line:
R M | P D M P || D P | M G R S

M follows D as the 5th note.

But neither the Aarohanam nor the Avarohanam have this pattern.
So, is this considered to be a violation of the raga? If not, why not?


Thanks.
Regards,
Bharath.

manojkmr787
Posts: 4
Joined: 07 Mar 2017, 13:46

Re: Malahari - Sree Gananatha

Post by manojkmr787 »

This a good question. This is answered by Sri T. M. Krishna in the below video. Hope this helps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7TypsHCV4

Sachi_R
Posts: 2174
Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 20:20

Re: Malahari - Sree Gananatha

Post by Sachi_R »

I read it as R M P D, M P, D P M G R S ...

bharathudu
Posts: 3
Joined: 14 Mar 2017, 01:55

Re: Malahari - Sree Gananatha

Post by bharathudu »

@manojkmr787: Thanks for the video link. I learnt a lot more about what makes a raga from that video than I would have otherwise and now I'll probably lookout for and listen to TM Krishna sing. The core that he seemed to say/what I got is that the gamakas make the raga, rather than a rigid flat aarohana/avarohana across a restricted set of notes. This just made my life that much more complicated :-(. However, I am probably then guessing that , in R M P D M P, the D would have been part of a gamaka to get into the M. The gnawing question I have is, what is exactly a raga : He did exactly address this question in the last two minutes, but what he said is more experiential than understanding. Maybe I don't like his answer, because of its difficulty. So, I could still use a different/direct answer to my question. Thanks again.

@Sachi, thanks for sharing that perspective. Then my next question is, if we view each note as its OWN phrase, then do aarohan/avarohan hold as much meaning/significance as they do now?

Thanks.
Regards,
Bharath.

Sachi_R
Posts: 2174
Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 20:20

Re: Malahari - Sree Gananatha

Post by Sachi_R »

Bharath,
All questions show you to be an earnest seeker ☺️
The way I resolve my questions (I am also a seeker, but too. old to. learn new tricks), is I seek out the real experts and ask them one 2 one. Especially when it comes to music, which needs to be demonstrated and heard rather than read about.
There is a DVD series of TMK called Rasikatvam. Check it out. It lays out all aspects of CM in a nice way.

The arohana and avarohana is only a later definition of ragas that existed as melodies already. A raga is like a 3D sculpture, the scale is only its line drawing, lacking several dimensions of its totality. as TMK says in that video, the very same notes or sounds can mean different ragas in the context of the total picture.

bharathudu
Posts: 3
Joined: 14 Mar 2017, 01:55

Re: Malahari - Sree Gananatha

Post by bharathudu »

Sachi,

>>The arohana and avarohana is only a later definition of ragas that existed as melodies already.
This clarifies things a lot.

>>A raga is like a 3D sculpture, the scale is only its line drawing, lacking several dimensions of its totality.
Great perspective! Shows me where I stand in my seeking. Blind man meets elephant :roll: .

>>The way I resolve my questions (I am also a seeker, but too. old to. learn new tricks), is I seek out the real experts and ask them one 2 one
I wish I could adopt this as my first method of inquiry. I was sort of trying this by asking the question here. Will focus a bit more on the 1-1 aspect.

>> Rasikatvam
Just ordered Rasikatvam on Amazon.

Thanks a lot for all the guidance.

Many regards,
Bharath.

thanjavooran
Posts: 2972
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 04:44

Re: Malahari - Sree Gananatha

Post by thanjavooran »

Sachi Avl,
" A raga is like a 3D sculpture, the scale is only its line drawing, lacking several dimensions of its totality."
Excellent analogy !
Thanjavooran
17 03 2017

SrinathK
Posts: 2477
Joined: 13 Jan 2013, 16:10

Re: Malahari - Sree Gananatha

Post by SrinathK »

Ragas are not really linear. An arohanam avarohanam is of good help initially, but it is like a skeleton. A bunch of bones won't tell you everything about the person. And ragas bones' are surprisingly flexible.

The gamakam you described is called a dhATTu, which basically consists of going through the notes in a non-linear fashion like : S G R M or P D M P G M

I understand you are at the level of geethams, so you are already on the right path. It is good to analyze and ask questions the way you do.

However it will take time and experience and you will discover many fascinating things as you go along the way. This music, like a relationship is something that grows up with you, so it is always best to go up step by step. Stay hungry and be inquisitive always.

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