Ragamalika - Sri Viswanatham

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narayan
Posts: 383
Joined: 05 Oct 2008, 07:43

Ragamalika - Sri Viswanatham

Post by narayan »

The grand caturdasa ragamalika of Diksitar has been on my mind for quite a few weeks now. A few points and also general queries to knowlegeable folks here.
- Any particular reason why Varali is not part of this set?
- 12 of the 14 ragas can definitely be classified as familiar. The two ones which are not commonly sung are gauri and bhairavam. Of this, I don't recall anything by Tyagaraja or others in gauri. Any pointers to other songs sung in gouri are welcome. Is the bhairavam the same as the mariyadagadayya of Tyagaraja?
- The bhoopalam is clearly the one with the suddha gandharam as in the Diksitar school, so that's fine.
- Devakriya is again the Diksitar school variant of Suddha saveri, but not quite.
- There is only one pratimadhyamam in the set - Saranga, and that too somewhat fleeting. Other notes are better represented!
- Each raga has a longer part either in slow speed or fast and a shorter part always in faster speed. Obviously the longer ones give a sharp picture of the raga, covering all the notes. Of the shorter parts, sankarabharanam is very compact, and does not cover the octave and gauri is even more compact, hovering only in four notes NSRG.

While at it, any pointers to the other ragamalikas of Diksitar are requested as also the mammoth (pointless?) 44 raga malika of Ramasvami Diksitar mentioned in the SSP. At least I counted 44.

harimau
Posts: 1819
Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 21:43

Re: Ragamalika - Sri Viswanatham

Post by harimau »

narayan wrote: 18 Jan 2018, 08:30 ..............
While at it, any pointers to the other ragamalikas of Diksitar are requested as also the mammoth (pointless?) 44 raga malika of Ramasvami Diksitar mentioned in the SSP. At least I counted 44.
Any good book on Deekshithar's compositions lists several ragamalika compositions. (That means, go buy a book!)

As to your comment about the "pointless" 44 ragamalika of Sri Ramaswamy Deekshithar, you are hereby sentenced to listen to "Ragathil Sirandha Ragamethu" 44 times in a row!

narayan
Posts: 383
Joined: 05 Oct 2008, 07:43

Re: Ragamalika - Sri Viswanatham

Post by narayan »

harimau, I have the books, thanks. Wanted to know if anyone has sung the other ragamalikas, i.e. wanted to hear them.


Sachi_R
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Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 20:20

Re: Ragamalika - Sri Viswanatham

Post by Sachi_R »

Varsha,
What a nice piece, sung perhaps some years ago by AV!
The song is a straight forward Ragamalika unlike the Chaturdasha one.
Matsya - Nata
Kurma - Gaula
Varaha - Sri
Narasimha - Arabhi
Vamana - Varali
Parashurama-Kedara
Rama-Vasanta
Balarama - Suruti
Krishna - Saurashtra
Venkatesha, Kalki- Madhyamavati

vijay.siddharth
Posts: 358
Joined: 14 May 2017, 13:08

Re: Ragamalika - Sri Viswanatham

Post by vijay.siddharth »

narayan wrote: 18 Jan 2018, 08:30 - Any particular reason why Varali is not part of this set?
That is perhaps because Mudduswamy Dikshitar didn't feel like composing a passage in Varali.
narayan wrote: 18 Jan 2018, 08:30 - 12 of the 14 ragas can definitely be classified as familiar. The two ones which are not commonly sung are gauri and bhairavam. Of this, I don't recall anything by Tyagaraja or others in gauri. Any pointers to other songs sung in gouri are welcome. Is the bhairavam the same as the mariyadagadayya of Tyagaraja?
Multiple compositions in Gowri (at least one krithi and a couple padams) are attributed to Swathi Thirunal. Dikshitar himself has sung 'Gowri Giriraja Kumari' and 'Sri Meenakshi Gowri'.
narayan wrote: 18 Jan 2018, 08:30 - The bhoopalam is clearly the one with the suddha gandharam as in the Diksitar school, so that's fine.
That is the only Bhoopalam which exists. If it has chatushruti dhaivatham, it is called Revagupti (in which Dikshitar has composed a song too).
narayan wrote: 18 Jan 2018, 08:30 - Devakriya is again the Diksitar school variant of Suddha saveri, but not quite.
Devakriya and Shuddha Saveri are identical. To say that they are different is like to expound on the difference between rasam and sathumudu.
narayan wrote: 18 Jan 2018, 08:30 - There is only one pratimadhyamam in the set - Saranga, and that too somewhat fleeting. Other notes are better represented!
Dikshitar's ragamalikas aren't like the Lok Sabha where all states (or, in this case, notes) need equal representation!
narayan wrote: 18 Jan 2018, 08:30 - Each raga has a longer part either in slow speed or fast and a shorter part always in faster speed. Obviously the longer ones give a sharp picture of the raga, covering all the notes. Of the shorter parts, sankarabharanam is very compact, and does not cover the octave and gauri is even more compact, hovering only in four notes NSRG.
The identity of Shankarabharanam and Gowri are very firmly established in the ragamalika with the limited use of notes.

sureshvv
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Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: Ragamalika - Sri Viswanatham

Post by sureshvv »

Easy dude! Lot of mistaken notions.

narayan
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Joined: 05 Oct 2008, 07:43

Re: Ragamalika - Sri Viswanatham

Post by narayan »

Thanks to all for their responses and to varsha for the link. Thanks to vijay.siddharth for detailed reply to every point. I did not think I had that much to say.

shreyas
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Joined: 03 Mar 2018, 13:16

Re: Ragamalika - Sri Viswanatham

Post by shreyas »

Gauri is, in terms of swarasthanas, very similar to other janyas of mayamalavagaula, but the slow RGS phrases in madhyama sthayi give it a different flavour. And, in fact, It is not 44 but 108 ragas.

Ranganayaki
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Joined: 02 Jan 2011, 06:23

Re: Ragamalika - Sri Viswanatham

Post by Ranganayaki »

shreyas wrote: 09 Apr 2018, 21:31 And, in fact, It is not 44 but 108 ragas.
There was a moment in the lecdem this past weekend by V Sriram where he says that he recently learned that this raga-tala Malika is incomplete and does not have 108 ragas or talas. He says that what is available may be all that was composed. He says that the number 108 was not mentioned in the original work. He seems to have learned this from a lecdem by RS Jayalakshmi given last year, and this fact surprised many including him, who did not know that 108 wasn’t actually that number. He does not explain how the number got attached to the work if it was not recorded as such by the composer.

narayan
Posts: 383
Joined: 05 Oct 2008, 07:43

Re: Ragamalika - Sri Viswanatham

Post by narayan »

I was referring to the ragamalika starting sivamohana in the Sangita Sampradaya Pradarshini, Appendix. It doesn't say Raga-tala malika. So may be this 108 is a different animal altogether? I used the word pointless that the gentle harimau pounced upon, but I'm actually keen on hearing any renderings. The fact is that I like pointless things. I spent a good many weeks attempting to learn Sri Viswanatham and if this other thing works out, I guess I am all set for a year.

Returning to Sri Viswanatham, recent discussion that I had reveals the structure in the 'standard' way as follows, regarding the dvitiaksaraprasa:
Pallavi and anupallavi: long vowel and v (P: sri viswa ..., AP: sri visAla ..., govindadi ...) 2 + 4 lines
Caranam: short vowel and d (sadAsivam ..., cidAkasa ..., sadAsrayAmi ..., vadAnya ...) 8 lines

A total of 14 lines, but not all ragas occupy equal length.

The half avartana sahitya bits in the caranam do not follow any particular patterns, which also leads me to believe that that whole lot is meant to be sung as swaram plus sahitya (i.e. not just the sahitya)?

Please pardon if I am stating the obvious, but it is a long (grand) song and I sometimes lost track of things.

bhakthim dehi
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Joined: 24 Feb 2014, 21:28

Re: Ragamalika - Sri Viswanatham

Post by bhakthim dehi »

This is one rare species wherein svaram has to be sung with sahityam.

Ranganayaki
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Joined: 02 Jan 2011, 06:23

Re: Ragamalika - Sri Viswanatham

Post by Ranganayaki »

narayan wrote: 11 Apr 2018, 07:56 I was referring to the ragamalika starting sivamohana in the Sangita Sampradaya Pradarshini, Appendix. It doesn't say Raga-tala malika. So may be this 108 is a different animal altogether?
Ok, yes, could be a different one.

RSR
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Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Ragamalika - Sri Viswanatham

Post by RSR »

I had posted @366,367,368 ( viewtopic.php?f=10&t=89&start=350) on the same topics, requesting information. Thanks to all who have given the required data.and more

MLV RENDERING HAS BEEN GIVEN. MAY BE USEFUL.

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