udaya ravichandrika -suddhadhanyasi

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shankarank
Posts: 4042
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: udaya ravichandrika -suddhadhanyasi

Post by shankarank »

Ranganayaki wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 10:22 Also, your use of "samvadi" to mean dissonance is wrong, I'm afraid.
Ok, I know that notes seperated by a large frequency difference cannot be dissonant. But that is if they are sounded seperately without a Adhara Sruti. But this is in the context of vAdi/samvAdi, G2 is not samvAdi with N3 and M2 is absent , so is G3. That absence of samvadi does produce an odd effect, which is what I meant!
Ranganayaki wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 10:22 EVERYBODY here tells you you are impossible to understand.
Well if a whole set of people still think only "Notes" and the way they are being sung identifies the genre of music , then they will not understand what I write. Show me any composition set to a flow like that in Hindustani. Have you heard Kanniks sing some of the dikshitar compositions. The syllables will be made loose.

Here is an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJMHnlIlX_I

At least SRJ did not take that part there!
Last edited by shankarank on 03 Mar 2018, 11:10, edited 2 times in total.

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: udaya ravichandrika -suddhadhanyasi

Post by RSR »

@22->Ranganayaki->
I am not completely sure if yeh zingage can be considered as SD. I am positive I heard a dha. There is one in "Jo kisee." (Anyone correct me if I'm wrong) But movie songs take liberties with ragas, so I can't tell. I did not listen very intently.
But revolting?? What did you find revolting?
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My categorical opinion is that there is absolutely no similarity between Suddhadhanyasi and the Anarkali classic. If anything, it has striking resemblance to Beemplas, But then there are variations into other ragams also, in that great composition by CRamachandra.(quoting myself).
That is why it is revolting. One does not sense the ragam by occurence of this or that note in the song, except in a few instances like the one under discussion.(SD and URC) . When bloggers mislead by bringing in cheap film songs to illustrate classical music, it is revolting indeed. But, that is not true for the great compositions of Hindi Film music directors of the golden era.. 1948-1956 ( CRamachandra, MadanMohan, Roshan, Shankar-Jaikishen, SalilChoudry) especially composed for and rendered by Lata. Ofcourse, they would sometimes mix up ragams for ranjakathavam but not always. There are atleast a 100 classics by Lata film songs in Hindusthani ragams , in no way , 'filmy'. and truly illustrative of the essence of the ragams. For even experts, it is rather difficult to pinpoint the ragam.from bookish and pedantic approach.
Google for the exact word 'beemplaas'.
https://sites.google.com/site/hindustha ... /beemplaas
Do not dismiss yehzindagi song as mere film song. It is an ageless classic. (to be heard .. full bass..full volume.Concentrate on the background orchestration... Try to identify the ragams tentatively'.)

pattu
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Joined: 18 Sep 2011, 11:15

Re: udaya ravichandrika -suddhadhanyasi

Post by pattu »

The best film song in Shuddha Dhanyasi is 'toTTAl poo malarum sung by TMS and Susheela in the MGR film paDagOTTi. It is pure and does not deviate from the raga at any point.

Ranganayaki
Posts: 1760
Joined: 02 Jan 2011, 06:23

Re: udaya ravichandrika -suddhadhanyasi

Post by Ranganayaki »

I wanted to edit my post to correct the spelling of "yeh zindagi," but I couldn't! I used to be able to edit, but not delete a post, once a subsequent post was made. Now I can't even edit. So pl treat this as my correction. 😊

Ranganayaki
Posts: 1760
Joined: 02 Jan 2011, 06:23

Re: udaya ravichandrika -suddhadhanyasi

Post by Ranganayaki »

RSR wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 11:07
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My categorical opinion is that there is absolutely no similarity between Suddhadhanyasi and the Anarkali classic. If anything, it has striking resemblance to Beemplas, But then there are variations into other ragams also, in that great composition by CRamachandra.(quoting myself).
That is why it is revolting.
Yes, this has much greater resemblance to bheemplas than SD. With an important presence of ri and dha, and the feeling of bheemplas, I wouldn't call it SD. Swara-wise the ri and dha occur only in descents, in keeping with bheemplas.

But I feel amused at the strength of your reaction. To me it is vaguely annoying, at worst. But then, I always question what I read on the Internet.
One does not sense the ragam by occurence of this or that note in the song, except in a few instances like the one under discussion.(SD and URC)
Yes, but I would add that when there is any debate or disagreement, however, or when one is unsure, listening for the notes is helpful if one has the ability to discern notes.

Do not dismiss yehzindagi song as mere film song. It is an ageless classic. (to be heard .. full bass..full volume.Concentrate on the background orchestration... )
I don't dismiss a song as a mere film song. I have always liked this one. This is a great song - you hear it once for the first time and it remains with you forever. It's unforgettable. But I will listen for the background, as you say. Listening to background score does not come naturally to me, sadly! I tend to focus on the main song!!!

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: udaya ravichandrika -suddhadhanyasi

Post by RSR »

@30-> Ranganayaki wrote
Yes, but I would add that when there is any debate or disagreement, however, or when one is unsure, listening for the notes is helpful if one has the ability to discern notes.
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I don't dismiss a song as a mere film song. I have always liked this one. This is a great song - you hear it once for the first time and it remains with you forever. It's unforgettable. But I will listen for the background, as you say. Listening to background score does not come naturally to me, sadly! I tend to focus on the main song
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Glad. I too used to go by the notes.. long back in the instrument, that i learned as a hobby. but better method is to hum the similar songs of stalwarts . It is a rare ability to remember a tune by the swaram. It depends on the basic sruthi. ( excuse me, if I am wrong) but when we try that in a musical instrument, the note becomes clear.
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As in the two songs of 'same' ragam, (DKP, GNB), I the range makes the difference. ( assuming that they are of SD).
Also, the bhaavam and way of singing. . Some blogs are very nice.and informative. I wish that bloggers and article writers avoided film songs as illustration for ragams. as if there are not enough by other singers of golden era.
(film songs of yore by MSS, NCV, DKP, excluded)

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