Hamsanadam vs. Skandamanorama
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Hamsanadam vs. Skandamanorama
Hey!
I just wanted to clarify this.
Hamsanadam: S R2 M2 P D3 N3 S S N3 D3 N3 P M2 R2 S
Skandamanorama : S R2 M2 P N3 S S N3 P M2 R2 S
Here's Bantureethi Koluvu in Hamsanadam by T M Krishna: Notice the P S NDN P in the pallavi sangathis. Only after finding out about the other raga did I notice that unobtrusive Satsruti Dhaivatam myself.
http://mio.to/album/T.+M.+Krishna/Enneramaum+%282005%29
Here's the same song by MSS. Notice not a shade of D3 at all. This puzzled me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r83G15Rcb7g
The even more weird thing is TMK's rendering of Kesari Nandana Vandita Ninage of Sri Ganapati Sacchidananda Swamiji. Wach it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIJtgqHT9X8
Would this come under Skandamanorama or Hamsanadam? His kalpanaswaras do not have even a single D anywhere, yet the composition is supposedly in Hamsanadam. I don't understand this at all.
Finally, Sri Ganapati Sacchidananda Swamiji himself, singing his composition Kesari Nandana in Telugu (not Kannada) in the album Nadanjaneya with no D anywhere, yet it is called Hamsanadam.
https://www.shazam.com/track/54942275/kesari-nandana
Unfortunately I could not find a rendering of Raga Skandamanorama, but here's what www.karnatik.com has to say about it.
skandamanOrama
63 latAngi janya
Aa: S R2 M2 P N3 S
Av: S N3 P M2 R2 S
Ragas of Carnatic Music by S Bhagyalekshmy mentions a composition in it, although I am unable to find it.
But all this time I thought Hamsanadam hasd SRMPNS SNPMRS as its swarasthanas, having learnt Bantureethi kolu in that way, singing PPNP instead of PSNDNP. I was befuddled to come across this new raga.
Anyway, I guess I learnt something new!
I just wanted to clarify this.
Hamsanadam: S R2 M2 P D3 N3 S S N3 D3 N3 P M2 R2 S
Skandamanorama : S R2 M2 P N3 S S N3 P M2 R2 S
Here's Bantureethi Koluvu in Hamsanadam by T M Krishna: Notice the P S NDN P in the pallavi sangathis. Only after finding out about the other raga did I notice that unobtrusive Satsruti Dhaivatam myself.
http://mio.to/album/T.+M.+Krishna/Enneramaum+%282005%29
Here's the same song by MSS. Notice not a shade of D3 at all. This puzzled me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r83G15Rcb7g
The even more weird thing is TMK's rendering of Kesari Nandana Vandita Ninage of Sri Ganapati Sacchidananda Swamiji. Wach it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIJtgqHT9X8
Would this come under Skandamanorama or Hamsanadam? His kalpanaswaras do not have even a single D anywhere, yet the composition is supposedly in Hamsanadam. I don't understand this at all.
Finally, Sri Ganapati Sacchidananda Swamiji himself, singing his composition Kesari Nandana in Telugu (not Kannada) in the album Nadanjaneya with no D anywhere, yet it is called Hamsanadam.
https://www.shazam.com/track/54942275/kesari-nandana
Unfortunately I could not find a rendering of Raga Skandamanorama, but here's what www.karnatik.com has to say about it.
skandamanOrama
63 latAngi janya
Aa: S R2 M2 P N3 S
Av: S N3 P M2 R2 S
Ragas of Carnatic Music by S Bhagyalekshmy mentions a composition in it, although I am unable to find it.
But all this time I thought Hamsanadam hasd SRMPNS SNPMRS as its swarasthanas, having learnt Bantureethi kolu in that way, singing PPNP instead of PSNDNP. I was befuddled to come across this new raga.
Anyway, I guess I learnt something new!
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Re: Hamsanadam vs. Skandamanorama
I have one song listed in the rAgA skandamanOramA--Manorama manatam manasi by P.K.Rajagopala Iyer. I have no lyrics or notation for this .
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Re: Hamsanadam vs. Skandamanorama
@1
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From wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamsanada ... aganidhi-1
"Hamsanadam, as it is sung now-a-days, is a symmetric scale that does not contain gandharam and dhaivatam. It is called an audava rāgam,[1] in Carnatic music classification (as it has 5 notes in both ascending and descending scales). Its ārohaṇa-avarohaṇa structure is as follows (see swaras in Carnatic music for details on below notation and terms):
ārohaṇa : S R2 M2 P N3 S
avarohaṇa : S N3 P M2 R2 S
This scale uses the notes shadjam, chatusruti rishabham, prati madhyamam, panchamam and kakali nishadam.
Other structures
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Earlier structure of this scale were as follows:[1][2]
Ascending scale : S R2 M2 P D3 N3 S
Descending scale : S N3 D3 N3 P M2 R2 S
In the above, shatsruti dhaivatam is added in the scale compared to current usage (shadava scale with 6 notes in ascendinga and descending scale), with a vakra prayoga (zig-zag descending scale).[1][2]
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Ref 1 is the book by Subba Rao
2 ,, Bagyaklakshmi
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Thank you for sharing the video of Smt.MSS rendering. She is completely immersed in the song. and I find new faces as accompanists. Who is the young violinist? What was the venue and occasion? The numerous appreciative comments in the youtube link speak for themselves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r83G15Rcb7gHere's the same song by MSS. Notice not a shade of D3 at all. This puzzled me.
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From wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamsanada ... aganidhi-1
"Hamsanadam, as it is sung now-a-days, is a symmetric scale that does not contain gandharam and dhaivatam. It is called an audava rāgam,[1] in Carnatic music classification (as it has 5 notes in both ascending and descending scales). Its ārohaṇa-avarohaṇa structure is as follows (see swaras in Carnatic music for details on below notation and terms):
ārohaṇa : S R2 M2 P N3 S
avarohaṇa : S N3 P M2 R2 S
This scale uses the notes shadjam, chatusruti rishabham, prati madhyamam, panchamam and kakali nishadam.
Other structures
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Earlier structure of this scale were as follows:[1][2]
Ascending scale : S R2 M2 P D3 N3 S
Descending scale : S N3 D3 N3 P M2 R2 S
In the above, shatsruti dhaivatam is added in the scale compared to current usage (shadava scale with 6 notes in ascendinga and descending scale), with a vakra prayoga (zig-zag descending scale).[1][2]
---------------------------------------------------
Ref 1 is the book by Subba Rao
2 ,, Bagyaklakshmi
-----------------------------------------------------
Thank you for sharing the video of Smt.MSS rendering. She is completely immersed in the song. and I find new faces as accompanists. Who is the young violinist? What was the venue and occasion? The numerous appreciative comments in the youtube link speak for themselves.
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Re: Hamsanadam vs. Skandamanorama
But then what is the difference between the two ragas if Hamsanadam is also now an audava raga with SRMPNS SNPMRS?
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Re: Hamsanadam vs. Skandamanorama
No one can answer your question - only u get opinions.
Bigger question is - why Banturiti krithi of Tyagarajar has been tampered with and is being sung in so many versions? There is no answer for this one either
Bigger question is - why Banturiti krithi of Tyagarajar has been tampered with and is being sung in so many versions? There is no answer for this one either
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Re: Hamsanadam vs. Skandamanorama
Negligence.
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Re: Hamsanadam vs. Skandamanorama
You do realize that a lot of Thyagaraja's music has been tampered with? I blame the dark ages...
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Re: Hamsanadam vs. Skandamanorama
r vedavalli mami has sung the authentic version of baturithi kolu in her album called pramanam(which is available on YTB "R. Vedavalli - Pramanam - Bantureethi Kolu - Carnatic Vocal")
could anyone explain what is the difference that mami is trying to convey ?
wrt to older hamsanadham and modified one
could anyone explain what is the difference that mami is trying to convey ?
wrt to older hamsanadham and modified one
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Re: Hamsanadam vs. Skandamanorama
@shreyas To the original poster, don't link to mio or anything T M Krishna that isn't from a proper channel.
Coming to the point, many vivadi kritis were changed because people believed in superstitious taboos.
Coming to the point, many vivadi kritis were changed because people believed in superstitious taboos.
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Re: Hamsanadam vs. Skandamanorama
I would have thought so too, except that some artists and at least one kriti that use the original (I’m told) version (including D3) are totally contemporary. I recently heard a tillana (I think it was a composition of Ravikiran’s) which included the D3. The artist who played it was very young.RSR wrote: ↑31 Mar 2018, 14:14
From wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamsanada ... aganidhi-1
"Hamsanadam, as it is sung now-a-days, is a symmetric scale that does not contain gandharam and dhaivatam.
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Re: Hamsanadam vs. Skandamanorama
The more recent version of hamsanadam is a symmetric raga with 5 notes: S-R2-M2-P-N3-S in the arohanam and the same notes in the avarohanam.ajaysimha wrote: ↑28 Jan 2019, 20:43 r vedavalli mami has sung the authentic version of baturithi kolu in her album called pramanam(which is available on YTB "R. Vedavalli - Pramanam - Bantureethi Kolu - Carnatic Vocal")
could anyone explain what is the difference that mami is trying to convey ?
wrt to older hamsanadham and modified one
She has sung the original version, which includes a D3 - the details of this scale are in the original post and in RSR’s post. You can hear the difference for example at 0:21 and the repetition at 0:27.
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Re: Hamsanadam vs. Skandamanorama
thanks @Ranganayaki ma'am
for making it clear.
older Hamsanadam:
Ar: S R2 M2 P D3 N3 S
Av:S N3 D3 N3 P M2 R2 S
(shadava-shadava with vakra sanchara)
and newer Hamsanadam:
Ar: S R2 M2 P N3 S
Av:S N3 P M2 R2 S
(audava-audava)
if it has to be given a precise raga name acc to musical text, it can be called as shuddha Hamsanadam
for making it clear.
older Hamsanadam:
Ar: S R2 M2 P D3 N3 S
Av:S N3 D3 N3 P M2 R2 S
(shadava-shadava with vakra sanchara)
and newer Hamsanadam:
Ar: S R2 M2 P N3 S
Av:S N3 P M2 R2 S
(audava-audava)
if it has to be given a precise raga name acc to musical text, it can be called as shuddha Hamsanadam
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Re: Hamsanadam vs. Skandamanorama
Kripanidhe in Hamsanadam is a composition of Muthiah Bhagavtar which TNS has included in his double album commercially released by AVM. In the chittaswaram there is the usage of D3.
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Re: Hamsanadam vs. Skandamanorama
U can also listen to bantureeti koluvu sung by TN seshagopalan . It will be fantastic.