Hamsanadam vs. Skandamanorama

[shreyas]

Hey!
I just wanted to clarify this.
Hamsanadam: S R2 M2 P D3 N3 S S N3 D3 N3 P M2 R2 S
Skandamanorama : S R2 M2 P N3 S S N3 P M2 R2 S

Here's Bantureethi Koluvu in Hamsanadam by T M Krishna: Notice the P S NDN P in the pallavi sangathis. Only after finding out about the other raga did I notice that unobtrusive Satsruti Dhaivatam myself.
http://mio.to/album/T.+M.+Krishna/Enneramaum+%282005%29

Here's the same song by MSS. Notice not a shade of D3 at all. This puzzled me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r83G15Rcb7g

The even more weird thing is TMK's rendering of Kesari Nandana Vandita Ninage of Sri Ganapati Sacchidananda Swamiji. Wach it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIJtgqHT9X8
Would this come under Skandamanorama or Hamsanadam? His kalpanaswaras do not have even a single D anywhere, yet the composition is supposedly in Hamsanadam. I don't understand this at all.

Finally, Sri Ganapati Sacchidananda Swamiji himself, singing his composition Kesari Nandana in Telugu (not Kannada) in the album Nadanjaneya with no D anywhere, yet it is called Hamsanadam.
https://www.shazam.com/track/54942275/kesari-nandana

Unfortunately I could not find a rendering of Raga Skandamanorama, but here's what www.karnatik.com has to say about it.
skandamanOrama
63 latAngi janya
Aa: S R2 M2 P N3 S
Av: S N3 P M2 R2 S

Ragas of Carnatic Music by S Bhagyalekshmy mentions a composition in it, although I am unable to find it.


But all this time I thought Hamsanadam hasd SRMPNS SNPMRS as its swarasthanas, having learnt Bantureethi kolu in that way, singing PPNP instead of PSNDNP. I was befuddled to come across this new raga.

Anyway, I guess I learnt something new!

[Lakshman]

I have one song listed in the rAgA skandamanOramA--Manorama manatam manasi by P.K.Rajagopala Iyer. I have no lyrics or notation for this .

[RSR]

@1

Here's the same song by MSS. Notice not a shade of D3 at all. This puzzled me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r83G15Rcb7g

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamsanada ... aganidhi-1

"Hamsanadam, as it is sung now-a-days, is a symmetric scale that does not contain gandharam and dhaivatam. It is called an audava rāgam,[1] in Carnatic music classification (as it has 5 notes in both ascending and descending scales). Its ārohaṇa-avarohaṇa structure is as follows (see swaras in Carnatic music for details on below notation and terms):
ārohaṇa : S R2 M2 P N3 S
avarohaṇa : S N3 P M2 R2 S
This scale uses the notes shadjam, chatusruti rishabham, prati madhyamam, panchamam and kakali nishadam.
Other structures
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Earlier structure of this scale were as follows:[1][2]
Ascending scale : S R2 M2 P D3 N3 S
Descending scale : S N3 D3 N3 P M2 R2 S
In the above, shatsruti dhaivatam is added in the scale compared to current usage (shadava scale with 6 notes in ascendinga and descending scale), with a vakra prayoga (zig-zag descending scale).[1][2]
---------------------------------------------------
Ref 1 is the book by Subba Rao
2 ,, Bagyaklakshmi
-----------------------------------------------------
Thank you for sharing the video of Smt.MSS rendering. She is completely immersed in the song. and I find new faces as accompanists. Who is the young violinist? What was the venue and occasion? The numerous appreciative comments in the youtube link speak for themselves.

[shreyas]

But then what is the difference between the two ragas if Hamsanadam is also now an audava raga with SRMPNS SNPMRS?

[HarishankarK]

No one can answer your question - only u get opinions.

Bigger question is - why Banturiti krithi of Tyagarajar has been tampered with and is being sung in so many versions? There is no answer for this one either

[bhakthim dehi]

Negligence.

[SrinathK]

You do realize that a lot of Thyagaraja's music has been tampered with? I blame the dark ages...

[HarishankarK]

You do realize that a lot of Thyagaraja's music has been tampered with? I blame the dark ages...

But we can never be sure as to which one is authentic - tampered or non-tampered

Only option is to sing according to your Guru's style/paataandharam

[ajaysimha]

r vedavalli mami has sung the authentic version of baturithi kolu in her album called pramanam(which is available on YTB "R. Vedavalli - Pramanam - Bantureethi Kolu - Carnatic Vocal")

could anyone explain what is the difference that mami is trying to convey ?
wrt to older hamsanadham and modified one

[SrinathK]

@shreyas To the original poster, don't link to mio or anything T M Krishna that isn't from a proper channel.

Coming to the point, many vivadi kritis were changed because people believed in superstitious taboos.

[Ranganayaki]

From wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamsanada ... aganidhi-1

"Hamsanadam, as it is sung now-a-days, is a symmetric scale that does not contain gandharam and dhaivatam.

I would have thought so too, except that some artists and at least one kriti that use the original (I’m told) version (including D3) are totally contemporary. I recently heard a tillana (I think it was a composition of Ravikiran’s) which included the D3. The artist who played it was very young.

[Ranganayaki]

r vedavalli mami has sung the authentic version of baturithi kolu in her album called pramanam(which is available on YTB "R. Vedavalli - Pramanam - Bantureethi Kolu - Carnatic Vocal")

could anyone explain what is the difference that mami is trying to convey ?
wrt to older hamsanadham and modified one

The more recent version of hamsanadam is a symmetric raga with 5 notes: S-R2-M2-P-N3-S in the arohanam and the same notes in the avarohanam.

She has sung the original version, which includes a D3 - the details of this scale are in the original post and in RSR’s post. You can hear the difference for example at 0:21 and the repetition at 0:27.

[ajaysimha]

thanks @Ranganayaki ma'am
for making it clear.

older Hamsanadam:
Ar: S R2 M2 P D3 N3 S
Av:S N3 D3 N3 P M2 R2 S
(shadava-shadava with vakra sanchara)

and newer Hamsanadam:
Ar: S R2 M2 P N3 S
Av:S N3 P M2 R2 S
(audava-audava)
if it has to be given a precise raga name acc to musical text, it can be called as shuddha Hamsanadam

[CRama]

Kripanidhe in Hamsanadam is a composition of Muthiah Bhagavtar which TNS has included in his double album commercially released by AVM. In the chittaswaram there is the usage of D3.

[Hymabollapalli]

U can also listen to bantureeti koluvu sung by TN seshagopalan . It will be fantastic.