Patdeep and (old) udayaravichandrika

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thenpaanan
Posts: 635
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 19:45

Patdeep and (old) udayaravichandrika

Post by thenpaanan »

My children are learning raga Patdeep in their HM class and this is the first time I am listening to this ragam.

Scale-wise it seems to be AbhEri/bhImpalAsI with kAkali nishAdham.

Chalan-wise it is more complex ArOhanaNam:SGMPNS avarOhaNam: SDMPG, MGRS with G komal/sAdhAraNa gAndhAram.

I was struck that we don't have this particular combination of notes in CM. It seems like a simple enough variation like our perennial favorite AbhErI and yet it is nowhere to be found in Carnatic music. Sanjay Sub gave the much-discussed RTP in patdIp but even there not much discussion about the ragam itself except for the unusual choice.

For that matter is there a ragam like Shuddha DhanyAsi with kAkali nishAdham? (i.e. SgMPNs/sNPMgS) A Wikipedia article says the old udayaravichandrika was such a rAgam but these days the Ni has dropped down to make it indistinguishable from Suddha dhanyAsi. So is there a rAgam in currency today like the old udayaravichandrika?

-Thenpaanan

shankarank
Posts: 4042
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Patdeep and (old) udayaravichandrika

Post by shankarank »

Almost same reason as kokilapriya and rishabapriya are ignored even though they are not vivadi rAgAs.

Chandrakouns somewhat scraped through due to G2 - D1 relation at least! But is that that popular? I heard from my teacher - Smt. Seetha Subramaniam that she sang that in 1972 - in KGS with rave reviews from Subbudu.

I think Ravisri once posted about that - I remember. And there was a sob story following that conversation, on how she was ignored after that. And she named some popular musicians - especially one - that did not get a good review from the same reviewer!

It is interesting to note that they ( the HM people) use a different set ( sort of bhashanga) in descent and restore some conformity with D & R!

Anyways here is the link for patdeep: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS3F0e-74Ho

shankarank
Posts: 4042
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Patdeep and (old) udayaravichandrika

Post by shankarank »

thenpaanan wrote: 27 Oct 2018, 22:04 For that matter is there a ragam like Shuddha DhanyAsi with kAkali nishAdham? (i.e. SgMPNs/sNPMgS)
Didn't kalayANA vasantam gravitated to D1 usage from D2 ? Similar problem here as well - our musicians find no value in holding N3 that distinctly - in sangIta kalpadruma Dr HMB notes M2 and N3 are like raghu - kEtu! dOsha svaras!

Already a good rAgA like kApi (kaRNAtaka) has been chicorified! Why spoil "Suddha" DhanyAsi?

ganeshkant
Posts: 963
Joined: 05 Feb 2010, 11:59

Re: Patdeep and (old) udayaravichandrika

Post by ganeshkant »

Srothasvini uses kaakali nishaadam in the SGMPNS scale other notes same as SDanyasi.
RSP sang a RTP somewhere which I listened in you tube.
There are good no.of film songs.

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Patdeep and (old) udayaravichandrika

Post by RSR »

I believe that the songs 'hey muraLi mohana sanvare' ( hindi -meera) and 'veynkuzhalin naDHAM' IN TAMIL-MEERA ( 1945() are in patadeep ragam.
http://picosong.com/TFrB

As for suddhadhanyasi , https://sites.google.com/site/dkpattamm ... thyagaraja

sikhivahana
Posts: 5
Joined: 27 Oct 2011, 19:01

Re: Patdeep and (old) udayaravichandrika

Post by sikhivahana »

There is one Dikshitar composition Sri guruguhamurthe in the “kAkali ni” udayaravichandrika. I haven’t come across another.

Sachi_R
Posts: 2174
Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 20:20

Re: Patdeep and (old) udayaravichandrika

Post by Sachi_R »

Click to play:Image

Ranganayaki
Posts: 1760
Joined: 02 Jan 2011, 06:23

Re: Patdeep and (old) udayaravichandrika

Post by Ranganayaki »

Beautiful singing!

There was a discussion of Patdeep in the context of another topic here. Varsha provided a media fire audio link to a discussion and singing by some other artists. I’m not sure if the audio link works as it wants me to download an app to open it but there is also another post with a translation into English. I’m providing both links here.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20075&p=229009&hili ... ep#p228943

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20075&p=229009&hili ... ep#p229009

Ranganayaki
Posts: 1760
Joined: 02 Jan 2011, 06:23

Re: Patdeep and (old) udayaravichandrika

Post by Ranganayaki »

ganeshkant wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 12:09 Srothasvini uses kaakali nishaadam in the SGMPNS scale other notes same as SDanyasi.
RSP sang a RTP somewhere which I listened in you tube.
There are good no.of film songs.
There was a YouTube video of Sri SRJ discussing how Udayaravichandrika Is a misnomer for Suddha Dhanyasi because there are compositions in Udayaravichandrika that use the Kakali Nishadha. Now the original Udayaravichandrika has lost its identity and is apparently going by a new name: Srotaswini, which I just came to know when I happened to watch Sri SP’s RTP in the raga. It’s not a new raga, but simply the original Udayaravichandrika.

https://youtu.be/KpUJtEgBS6k
Last edited by Ranganayaki on 28 Nov 2018, 22:37, edited 1 time in total.

Ranganayaki
Posts: 1760
Joined: 02 Jan 2011, 06:23

Re: Patdeep and (old) udayaravichandrika

Post by Ranganayaki »

May be the Music Academy should clarify the use of these names and consider disentangling “Udayaravichandrika” from “Suddha Dhanyasi,” and restore it, removing the need for the new name of “Srotaswini.” Isn’t such discussion and declaration the one of the roles of an Academy? Do they do this sort of thing?

ganeshkant
Posts: 963
Joined: 05 Feb 2010, 11:59

Re: Patdeep and (old) udayaravichandrika

Post by ganeshkant »

That way SallApam too has gone into oblivion.
Now called SuryA.

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