Hi all,
I have been looking quite extensively and found nothing substantial on this topic (i could be wrong and if someone spots anything related to this i'd appreciate if you can point me to the post).
I have heard a lot of theermaanams (i understand this is synonymous with the term 'Arudhi'. If anyone has got an opinion on this, they are far more than welcome to share it as well) played by various artists. The ones that particularly intrigue me are those where the Final theermaanam that concludes the rendition of a krithi played is cohesive with the structure of the pallavi. For example...if the krithi being sung or played is 'Brova Baarama', then the final theermaanam on the mridangam replicates the structure of the pallavi of the same krithi and concludes the rendition thereby.
In doing so, I have also heard quite a few artists playing the final theermaanam in dual gathis. Invariably the first 2 iterations of the theermaanam being in 'chatushra' gathi and the final 3rd one in either Tisra/Kanda or Misra gathi. Now the burning question in my mind is
1) is there a particular term for such theermaanams which sound like the pallavi?
2) is there a particular term for theermaanams with more than 1 gathi?
3) is there a set formulae anyone has worked out that will help in formulating such theermanams?
The forum is now encrypted with a security certificate, you may note now that the forum URL has the https protocol
Theermaanams

 Posts: 58
 Joined: 03 Aug 2009, 12:01
Re: Theermaanams
Dear Vishyam
I am also a mridangam learner (3+ yrs), and have been intrigued by these. Will be great if anyone has some valid responses on this. But from what i have been hearing from experts is that these things are not necessarily defined that very well understandably cant be also! (i like to be wrong in this conclusion). These are like kalpana sawarams of main music which are purely left to the individual exponents to show their mastery over the laya aspects.
I am also a mridangam learner (3+ yrs), and have been intrigued by these. Will be great if anyone has some valid responses on this. But from what i have been hearing from experts is that these things are not necessarily defined that very well understandably cant be also! (i like to be wrong in this conclusion). These are like kalpana sawarams of main music which are purely left to the individual exponents to show their mastery over the laya aspects.
0 x

 Posts: 947
 Joined: 04 Dec 2006, 13:56
 Location: Chennai
 x 1
 x 16
 Contact:
Re: Theermaanams
Sir
I dont understand your question. If an audio example is provided to support your doubt it would be helpful for artistes like me to clarify.
Mannarkoil J Balaji
I dont understand your question. If an audio example is provided to support your doubt it would be helpful for artistes like me to clarify.
Mannarkoil J Balaji
0 x

 Posts: 76
 Joined: 21 Mar 2005, 13:17
 Location: Chennai
 Contact:
Re: Theermaanams
1) is there a particular term for such theermaanams which sound like the pallavi?
To my limited knowledge NO. There are other names like, Arudhi, Mudivu and sometimes Abhiprayam and few other times porutham too.
2) is there a particular term for theermaanams with more than 1 gathi?
NO.
3) is there a set formulae anyone has worked out that will help in formulating such theermanams?
I am not sure about the formulae, but there is a knack of preparing Arudhi / Abhiprayam / Koraipu for any talam / nadai / Gathi in fraction of minutes. Which will be really helpful when you are given a chance to play for 23 minutes in between Thirupugazh(s).
OTOH, generally these arudhis/theermanams are spontaneous (very few times )and many a times prepared one. When the spontaneous Arudhis are wellreceived ( by the performers on stage) then that becomes a template to the percussion player and it will be extrapolated to frame more [complex] phrases out of a simple one.
Regards
To my limited knowledge NO. There are other names like, Arudhi, Mudivu and sometimes Abhiprayam and few other times porutham too.
2) is there a particular term for theermaanams with more than 1 gathi?
NO.
3) is there a set formulae anyone has worked out that will help in formulating such theermanams?
I am not sure about the formulae, but there is a knack of preparing Arudhi / Abhiprayam / Koraipu for any talam / nadai / Gathi in fraction of minutes. Which will be really helpful when you are given a chance to play for 23 minutes in between Thirupugazh(s).
OTOH, generally these arudhis/theermanams are spontaneous (very few times )and many a times prepared one. When the spontaneous Arudhis are wellreceived ( by the performers on stage) then that becomes a template to the percussion player and it will be extrapolated to frame more [complex] phrases out of a simple one.
Regards
0 x

 Posts: 54
 Joined: 26 Oct 2005, 18:12
 Location: Harrisburg,PA

 Posts: 76
 Joined: 21 Mar 2005, 13:17
 Location: Chennai
 Contact:
Re: Theermaanams
Hi,
To be frank, I am not able to find the formula for the below mentioned pattern(s) ( Yes its a pattern). Yet, there is a procedure / way / method / idea for everything. Here is one such thing.
Step 1 : For any talam, take the first avarthanam for your sollu ( Phrases)
step 2 : Sollu should be played 3 times and it should fit the avarthanam (with karvai or without karvai)
Note for step 2 : The sollu can be for 1 avarthanam or 2 avarthanams based on the length of talam
Step 3 : Add Tha thongu ( 1 3) at the end
Step 4 : Reduce the pharase by 1 mathrai and play three times and play tha thongu
Step 5 : Reduce the phrase again by 1 and play 3 times, and tha (it will land in samam for tham)
Example : For Roopaka thaalam
4 4 4 1 3 = 12 + 1 + 3= 16
3 3 3 1 3 = 9 + 1 + 3 = 13
2 2 2 1 = 6 + 1 = 7
16+13+7 = 36 ( will come for three avarthanam) can be played in Thisra nadai also. The same method can be applied for any talam, nadai, gathi.
Example for Kanda chapu :
6 . 6 . 6 1 3
5 . 5 . 5 1 3
4 . 4 . 4 1
Dot represents karvai. Its a simple pattern it can be improvised to any level.
Huge amount patterns can be found out to which i am not able to decipher a formula for this rather didnt really worked on how to decipher the same.
Moreover, the end part we play tha thom, which can be used for samam or for Atheetham 1 mathrirai and there are patterns for other eduppus also.
Critical Note : Formula and playing it aesthetically are completely different, Its is just for knowledge purpose, the final outcome of this pattern differs from person to person.
To be frank, I am not able to find the formula for the below mentioned pattern(s) ( Yes its a pattern). Yet, there is a procedure / way / method / idea for everything. Here is one such thing.
Step 1 : For any talam, take the first avarthanam for your sollu ( Phrases)
step 2 : Sollu should be played 3 times and it should fit the avarthanam (with karvai or without karvai)
Note for step 2 : The sollu can be for 1 avarthanam or 2 avarthanams based on the length of talam
Step 3 : Add Tha thongu ( 1 3) at the end
Step 4 : Reduce the pharase by 1 mathrai and play three times and play tha thongu
Step 5 : Reduce the phrase again by 1 and play 3 times, and tha (it will land in samam for tham)
Example : For Roopaka thaalam
4 4 4 1 3 = 12 + 1 + 3= 16
3 3 3 1 3 = 9 + 1 + 3 = 13
2 2 2 1 = 6 + 1 = 7
16+13+7 = 36 ( will come for three avarthanam) can be played in Thisra nadai also. The same method can be applied for any talam, nadai, gathi.
Example for Kanda chapu :
6 . 6 . 6 1 3
5 . 5 . 5 1 3
4 . 4 . 4 1
Dot represents karvai. Its a simple pattern it can be improvised to any level.
Huge amount patterns can be found out to which i am not able to decipher a formula for this rather didnt really worked on how to decipher the same.
Moreover, the end part we play tha thom, which can be used for samam or for Atheetham 1 mathrirai and there are patterns for other eduppus also.
Critical Note : Formula and playing it aesthetically are completely different, Its is just for knowledge purpose, the final outcome of this pattern differs from person to person.
0 x

 Posts: 54
 Joined: 26 Oct 2005, 18:12
 Location: Harrisburg,PA
Re: Theermaanams
Thank you Sriram. We will try with this patter by applying some sollus .This will be a begining of this venture. We will bug you will more doubts when we dwell deep into this subject.
Ravi
Ravi
0 x

 Posts: 10706
 Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01
 x 51
 x 123
Re: Theermaanams
Let me attempt to put ajsriram's algorithm into a formula and also generalize it where possible. I am not a mridangamist, none of this is from an artistic perspective. I will defer any aesthetic and practical questions to knowledgeable persons like ajsriram.
Let 'n' be the number of beats in a thala cycle ( e.g. n=3 for roopaka ) and m be the number of cycles you want to consider for each line, (EDIT: based on Uday's post below, m is the number of mathras per beat. m = 4 chathrashra, m = 3 for trisra etc. The examples below all assume one avarthana per line )
let a, b and c be three numbers such that a + b + c = nm ( eg. if n =5 and m = 4, a+b+c = 20 One combination is a = 7, b = 7, c = 6 )
This generalizes to the pattern
a b c 1 3
a1 b1 c1 1 3
a2 b2 c2 1
Adding them all up, we will get 3 ( a+b+c )  1  1  1  2  2  2 + 1 + 3 + 1 + 3 + 1 = 3( a+b+c ) = 3nm
This is basically a symbolic representation of ajsriram's description.
Next generalization is to add one more term 'd' to denote the 'subtract and add' term.
a b c d 3d
ad bd cd d 3d
a2d b2d c2d d
Adding these up we get 3( a + b + c)  9d  + 4d + 4d + d = 3 ( a+b+c ) = 3nm
If we set d =1 we get the previous formula
If we set n = 3, m=4, a = 4 b =4 c =4 d =1 , we get the roopaka pattern above, with 3nm beats = 3 * 3 * 4 = 36
If we set n =5, m=4, a = 7, b= 7, c = 6, d = 1, we get the kanda chapu ( or khanda eka ) pattern above, with 3nm beats = 3 * 5 * 4 = 60
Let 'n' be the number of beats in a thala cycle ( e.g. n=3 for roopaka ) and m be the number of cycles you want to consider for each line, (EDIT: based on Uday's post below, m is the number of mathras per beat. m = 4 chathrashra, m = 3 for trisra etc. The examples below all assume one avarthana per line )
let a, b and c be three numbers such that a + b + c = nm ( eg. if n =5 and m = 4, a+b+c = 20 One combination is a = 7, b = 7, c = 6 )
This generalizes to the pattern
a b c 1 3
a1 b1 c1 1 3
a2 b2 c2 1
Adding them all up, we will get 3 ( a+b+c )  1  1  1  2  2  2 + 1 + 3 + 1 + 3 + 1 = 3( a+b+c ) = 3nm
This is basically a symbolic representation of ajsriram's description.
Next generalization is to add one more term 'd' to denote the 'subtract and add' term.
a b c d 3d
ad bd cd d 3d
a2d b2d c2d d
Adding these up we get 3( a + b + c)  9d  + 4d + 4d + d = 3 ( a+b+c ) = 3nm
If we set d =1 we get the previous formula
If we set n = 3, m=4, a = 4 b =4 c =4 d =1 , we get the roopaka pattern above, with 3nm beats = 3 * 3 * 4 = 36
If we set n =5, m=4, a = 7, b= 7, c = 6, d = 1, we get the kanda chapu ( or khanda eka ) pattern above, with 3nm beats = 3 * 5 * 4 = 60
0 x

 Posts: 1176
 Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:37
 x 38
 x 56
Re: Theermaanams
vk, nice work !
I think there may be one correction:
If we set n = 12, m=1, a = 4 b =4 c =4 d =1 , we get the roopaka pattern above, with 3nm beats = 3 * 12 *1 = 36
The reason is that otherwise you mix maatras with "beats".
I think there may be one correction:
I think the above should read:vasanthakokilam wrote:If we set n = 3, m=4, a = 4 b =4 c =4 d =1 , we get the roopaka pattern above, with 3nm beats = 3 * 3 * 4 = 36
If we set n = 12, m=1, a = 4 b =4 c =4 d =1 , we get the roopaka pattern above, with 3nm beats = 3 * 12 *1 = 36
The reason is that otherwise you mix maatras with "beats".
0 x

 Posts: 10706
 Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01
 x 51
 x 123
Re: Theermaanams
Uday, you are correct there is a problem. The problem is in what I defined 'm' to be.
To be consistent with what ajsriram wrote,
m is the number mathras per beat. 4 = chathrashram, 3 = trisram etc.
I have added a correction above. Hope I did not confuse matters too much.
Thanks for spotting it.
To be consistent with what ajsriram wrote,
m is the number mathras per beat. 4 = chathrashram, 3 = trisram etc.
I have added a correction above. Hope I did not confuse matters too much.
Thanks for spotting it.
0 x

 Posts: 76
 Joined: 21 Mar 2005, 13:17
 Location: Chennai
 Contact:
Re: Theermaanams
Thanks for the Correction VK.
IMHO, We should always consider mathrais count for these kind of patterns:
If we consider Aadi talam or roopaka talam the difference will be count of Beats & number of mathrais between each beats and m x n will fetch perfect result.
On the other hand, if the tala structure is Chatusra Thirupudai  8 aksharams which follows the Lagu – Dhrutham – Dhrutham, Assuming the Laghu follows 4 mathrais cycle & Dhrutham follows 6 Mathrais Cycle the total comes to 40 Mathrais. In this case, m x n will not work, so its better to consider Mathrais to proceed further with this pattern.
Example :
If we come across a situation where we need to play few Theermanms, Koraippu for 40 Mathrais (1 laghu, 2 Dhrutham ) then the pattern will be
10 5 10 5 10 1 3 = 44
9 5 9 5 9 1 3 = 41
8 5 8 5 8 1= 35
44 + 41 + 35 = 120 = [(16 + 24 ) * 3] = [ (4*4 Chatusra Laghu + 6*4 Thisra Dhrutham) *3) ]
The same Pattern can be played for Misra Jampai ( 7+3) also since the total comes to 40 MAthrais or 3 avarthanam & the pattern can also be played in Thisra nadai for this talam.
NOTE : If we need to play in Thisra nadai for unsual talams like the one we took for example, then Chatusram & Thisram becomes Thisram & Sankeernam.
[ (16+24) * 3 ] = [ (24+36) * 3 ] = 120
Its my mistake, i have written it as "take the full avarthanam in the step 1", I should have written "take the full mathrai count for any tala cycle". I hope this is not confusing. Let me know if someone needs more clarity on this .
Step 1 : For any talam, take the first avarthanam for your sollu ( Phrases)
IMHO, We should always consider mathrais count for these kind of patterns:
If we consider Aadi talam or roopaka talam the difference will be count of Beats & number of mathrais between each beats and m x n will fetch perfect result.
On the other hand, if the tala structure is Chatusra Thirupudai  8 aksharams which follows the Lagu – Dhrutham – Dhrutham, Assuming the Laghu follows 4 mathrais cycle & Dhrutham follows 6 Mathrais Cycle the total comes to 40 Mathrais. In this case, m x n will not work, so its better to consider Mathrais to proceed further with this pattern.
Example :
If we come across a situation where we need to play few Theermanms, Koraippu for 40 Mathrais (1 laghu, 2 Dhrutham ) then the pattern will be
10 5 10 5 10 1 3 = 44
9 5 9 5 9 1 3 = 41
8 5 8 5 8 1= 35
44 + 41 + 35 = 120 = [(16 + 24 ) * 3] = [ (4*4 Chatusra Laghu + 6*4 Thisra Dhrutham) *3) ]
The same Pattern can be played for Misra Jampai ( 7+3) also since the total comes to 40 MAthrais or 3 avarthanam & the pattern can also be played in Thisra nadai for this talam.
NOTE : If we need to play in Thisra nadai for unsual talams like the one we took for example, then Chatusram & Thisram becomes Thisram & Sankeernam.
[ (16+24) * 3 ] = [ (24+36) * 3 ] = 120
Its my mistake, i have written it as "take the full avarthanam in the step 1", I should have written "take the full mathrai count for any tala cycle". I hope this is not confusing. Let me know if someone needs more clarity on this .
0 x
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest