A Rhythm Cycle of 2+3+3

Tālam & Layam related topics
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violinvicky
Posts: 18
Joined: 02 Apr 2009, 17:19

#1

Post by violinvicky »

Dear Members:

If I set rhythm to a song with the pattern "Tha Ka | Tha Ki Da | Tha Ki Da" (i.e., total of 8 counts) with the strong beats at the count 1, 3 and 6, should I still call it Aadhi talam ?

Please note that, this is a case where the cycle is not divided for experimental purpose, but a whole song is composed with this Sandham (meter);

By that I mean:
1. The rhythm religiously follow the loop of "1 2 | 1 2 3| 1 2 3 " for the duration of complete song
2. Lyrics are written with the same meter; i.e., 3 words in each line; First word measuring 2 Aksharams; Second and third Word measuring 3 Aksharams each.

Crudely put I would like to define this Talam as: 0 1 1 with the lagu of Tisra Jadhi (i.e., one Dhrutham followed by 2 lagus each of 3 aksharams);

But clearly this is not a valid tala that can be defined in the usual 35.

1. Does any Tala already exist with the pattern: 0 1 1 (May be an Anga Talam or so) ? If not, is one allowed to create such a Tala?
2. OR just because the cycle ultimately has 8 aksharams it must be called as Aadhi Talam only ?

With Love
Vicky

PS: Just to make the picture complete, The song I am referring to is a movie song and can be heard here: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.as ... SNGIRR1862'
(Since I am a new member here, I hope I am not breaking any code here. If so please accept my apologies in advance)
Last edited by violinvicky on 06 Nov 2009, 14:56, edited 1 time in total.

vasanthakokilam
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#2

Post by vasanthakokilam »

If you want to force fit this into the 35 thala scheme,

you can consider it as a tisra matya thala: 3 + 2 + 3 with eduppu on the 4th beat.

You can rebracket like this.

3 + ( 2 + 3 + 3 )+ (2 + 3 + 3 )+ (2 + 3 + 3 ) + 2 + 3


( ref: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= ... 0qpQ&gid=3 )

msakella
Posts: 1930
Joined: 30 Sep 2006, 21:16

#3

Post by msakella »

At the first instance we must understand what ‘tala’ means. Tala is a well disciplined rhythmical metre of time in music. There are two kinds of rhythmical forms in music and they are, 1.the rhythmical form which can be used as a Tala, a well disciplined metre consisting of Talangas like Anudruta, Druta, Laghu etc. 2.the rhythmical form which cannot be used as a Tala at all as it doesn’t has the required discipline to use the well disciplined Talangas to form it as a metre. Mathematically, in terms of Talaprastara, the permutation of 8-units consists of 128 permutations. Among them, while the well known rhythmical form consisting of the Talangas ‘1 0 0’ carrying ‘4+2+2’ units and named after ‘Adi-tala’ in the scheme of 35 talas is the ‘41st’ rhythmical form which can be used as a Tala. Well disciplined Talas like Simhanandana come under this category. The rhythmical form consisting of ‘2+3+3’ units which you have furnished is the ‘19th’ rhythmical form but cannot be used as a Tala as it does not fit into the discipline of Talangas. Talas like Sharabhanandana, Shivapalatalam, Tiruppugal-chando-roopas etc., etc., come under this category. The person who is well acquainted with the 10th chapter, Prastara of Taaladashapraanaas can only understand this problem properly and others cannot. However, you can use it as a Tala with 'Druta+Trisra-jati-laghu+Trisra-jati-laghu' arriving at 8-units. Then it can be used as Tala with your name or my name. amsharma
Last edited by msakella on 06 Nov 2009, 07:18, edited 1 time in total.

Nick H
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#4

Post by Nick H »

Unfortunately, the link to the song seems to have had babies ---

"Oops, Sorry we got some issue here. We will try to resolve it."

violinvicky
Posts: 18
Joined: 02 Apr 2009, 17:19

#5

Post by violinvicky »

Dear Sharma Sir:

My revered greetings to you. I sincerely thank you for your insightful response. Until I landed here, I didn't know about Talaprastara. Just noticed your exclusive thread on that subject on the Tala/ Laya category. I am just a novice in music. But I am a big fan of the Tala system of our carnatic classical music and some times involved with my own self-study of how it (some of it if not all) applies back into Western classical system. I think I will first go through the Talaprastara and try to digest the concepts.

Its quite a revelation to me to know the difference between Tala and a Rhythmic Form. I think I am beginning to understand the magnitude of your statement that - All Talas are Rhythmic Forms But not all Rhythmic Forms are Tala.

Still I am overjoyed to know that the song I stumbled upon is the 19th combination of possible Rhythmic Forms of 8 units. I hope to continue to learn from you. Thank You.

Dear Vasantha Kokilam:
Thank you very much for the explanation. Your view is certainly an out of the box thinking. But since the song's rhythm doesn't emphasize the beginning of a normal "Samam" with whose reference the pallavi should be starting 3 counts there after in order to "feel" the Anaagatha Eduppu, I am a bit hesitant to think it as Tisra-Matya; (i.e., to me it feels the Samam of the Rhythm Structure is the same place where the Lyrics start; But I could well be wrong. So you also please confirm) But its very re-assuring to know, all kind of complex conundrums can be quite easily explained with our Tala system.

Dear Nick:
Yes.. I also noticed it. This is because, In the original URL the song id is encapsulated into single quotes (i.e., 'SNGIRR1862' ); But as is the Achilles heel of many platforms, the UI engine of this web portal is also not clever enough to automatically encode special characters in the URL; (I should have seen it coming.. My apologies..); I have duly corrected the Hyper link since. It should be working now. If not kindly try the below URL where I have explicitly encoded the problem characters myself:

http://www.thiraipaadal.com/tpplayer.as ... IRR1862%27

With Love
Vicky
Last edited by violinvicky on 06 Nov 2009, 15:49, edited 1 time in total.

msakella
Posts: 1930
Joined: 30 Sep 2006, 21:16

#6

Post by msakella »

Dear brother-member, violinvicky, I wish you all the best in going through the rare topic, Talaprastara. If you need any help you can write to my email address ‘[email protected]’ or speak to my ID ‘msakella2002’ either on Yahoo Messenger or Skype on which I generally remain online and invisible around 7 am & 8 pm (IST) on any day.I am always ready to help you in this respect. amsharma

vasanthakokilam
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#7

Post by vasanthakokilam »

>(i.e., to me it feels the Samam of the Rhythm Structure is the same place where the Lyrics start; But I could well be wrong. So you also please confirm)

No. The definition of non-samam eduppu is that the lyrics start at a non-samam point of the thala.

I agree that it is a bit 'out there' to overlay your structure on a 3+2+3 with a non-samam eduppu. There is a plethora of songs that start 1.5 beats from samam. But then you can counter that it is still a fractional eduppu so it makes sense but my structure has a non-fractional eduppu. That is true but in CM non-samam eduppus need not be fractional. Consider Endaro Mahanubavalu.

akellaji: I am also curious about the significance of your profound statement "rhythmical form but cannot be used as a Tala as it does not fit into the discipline of Talangas."

I want to understand what the discipline of talangas is.

And, if the 'discipline' part of it is derived from musical rasa/aesthetics or only mathematics.

violinvicky
Posts: 18
Joined: 02 Apr 2009, 17:19

#8

Post by violinvicky »

Dear Vasantha-Kokilam:

Thank you very much for the clarification.

// >(i.e., to me it feels the Samam of the Rhythm Structure is the same place where the Lyrics start; But I could well be wrong. So you also please confirm)//
What I meant was:
In this particular song "Solladha Raagangal", to me it feels that the Samam of the Rhythm Structure is the same place where the Lyrics start; Therefore I am unable to feel the anaagatha eduppu in this song; But as you made it clear in your original post, with your explanation one can force fit my meter as Thira-matiya is spot on.

About your statement:
//No. The definition of non-samam eduppu is that the lyrics start at a non-samam point of the thala.//
Absolutely. Thats also what I exactly meant (from the other angle) by saying that "Solladha Raagangal" indeed doesn't feel like a non-samam eduppu because (to me) it feels like a Samam Eduppu with the 2+3+3 pattern against the song's base rhythm. (or when you hear this song, do you still 'feel' a 4th beat eduppu of Thisra Mattiya ?)

Dear Sharma Sir:
Thanks a lot for your kind, reassuring response. I shall definitely ask more questions in the future to enhance my understanding.

@ Nick H/ Others: Is the URL to listen to the song working..?

With Love
Vicky
Last edited by violinvicky on 06 Nov 2009, 22:54, edited 1 time in total.

vasanthakokilam
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#9

Post by vasanthakokilam »

vicky:

>the Samam of the Rhythm Structure is the same place where the Lyrics start

I understand now what you are saying. Fair enough. As an added point, even in such cases of lyrical and rhythmical alignment on beat boundary, in regular CM songs, the rhythm structure of the song can be overlaid on top of the thala in a non-samam eduppu manner. Endaro mahanubhava is an example. Anyway, we are digressing from the main topic.

I listened to the song. Though there are 8 units, not all of them are stressed the same way. So there is a distinction between main beats and sub beats. You are treating all the sub-beats as main beats. There is nothing wrong with it, it is all a matter of interpretation in these kinds of songs.

To me it sounds like a measure that consists of three beats. The first beat has two sub-beats and the second and third beats have three sub-beats each. CM people would probably scoff at this interpretation but try to keep the thalam like chapu thalams. Tap-silence tap-tap-silence tap-tap-silence. It flows smoothly mirroring the accents in the song. It is mixed gathi, if you want to look at it that way. ( in that sense, khanda chapu and misra chapu can be considered mixed gathi . I realize it is a controversial interpretation since there is a view that mixed gathis are not permitted in CM ).

In western music terminology this can be notated as a complex time signature consisting of three sub-measures: 2/8 + 3/8 + 3/8

msakella
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#10

Post by msakella »

Dear brother-member, vasanthakokilam, As per violinvicky’s mention the "Tha Ka | Tha Ki Da | Tha Ki Da" cannot be called as Adi-tala as the rhythmical form of Adi-tala consists of ‘k-t-t-k | t-k | t-k || of ‘4+2+2’ units and this present rhythmical form consists of "Tha Ka | Tha Ki Da | Tha Ki Da" of ‘2+3+3’ units. More over, either of the 2 or 3 or the next 3 units cannot be called as Lahu, Druta and Druta of Adi-tala as presently no Laghu of 2 units is used and there are no Drutas having 3 units. Thus, the present Talangas cannot be applied to this present rhythmical form.
But if these units ‘2+3+3’ are treated as Druta, Trisra-jati-laghu and another Trisra-jati-laghu the present Talangas can certainly be applied. Even though the seriatim of these Talangas could certainly be used as a Tala this could be called with some other name as it doesn’t fit in the scheme of 35 talas and their names.
Any ambiguity in information is due to my Tenglish. Hope, I am more clear now. Of course, you must certify that. amsharma

vasanthakokilam
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#11

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Akellaji: Understood. Thanks for the further clarification.

I am also curious about the more general topic. Arithmetically speaking, what makes the thala like Simhanandana well disciplined (and a thala like Sharabhanandana not well disciplined)?
Is it because the beat count number has some arithmetical properties that enable it to be expressed as a sum of the various talanga beat count numbers?

cmlover
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

#12

Post by cmlover »

Dear sharmaji
The SUlaDi taaLa system has used only seven basic structures. And 011 (dhrutam,laghu,laghu) is not one of them. Nor is 110. What was the original logic of the ancients for choosing and admitting only cetain structures as admissible and rejecting other simple structures which too appear simple and logical?

violinvicky
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#13

Post by violinvicky »

Dear VK:
//the rhythm structure of the song can be overlaid on top of the thala in a non-samam eduppu manner.// I am able to appreciate this statement better with the Endaro example. Especially in the pallavi how the oru edam eduppu is deliberately offset-ted each time with an extra aksharam also in the rhythm to give Endaro a normal start as if its a sama eduppu song; While at the same time in the saranams (lets say in: Sama gana or Manasa) the normal samam eduppu is felt just like most of the songs. I think this contrast side by side help appreciate this better I guess.. Let me know if I understood you correctly..Endaro being a Hybrid example (of distinct non-samam with rhythm taking off parallel to lyrics and with normal samam eduppus in same song), can you think of other whole songs with this simulated overlay ..?


Your interpretation of Sub beats together with the Chappu Talam ala representation seem to make sense since the lyrics seem to all the more accentuate the strong beats at 1,3 and 6th count. I highlighted this aspect in my original query itself if yo notice, but didn't think of it being chappu talam-ish.. From the western interpretation side also you seem to make more sense to call it 2/8+3/8+3/8 (Think of famous jazz composition - 'Take five' from the The Dave Brubeck Quartet which has the time signature of 3/8 + 2/8, I think Solladha can easily be explained similar way with your formula); So more than the interpretation of 011 with Thisra Lagu, I think this song can be best classified as a 3 beat tala with mixed Gathi.. By mixed Gathi, I assume you meant out of the 3 beats, 1st beat had 2 sub-beat and the last 2 beats have 3 sub-beats each.. Also again let me know if I understand you correctly.

Also in the song "Solladha", in the second BGM you can see some experiments with the rhythm (at 3:36) following the pattern of loops of 3 beat cycle and the finishing chorus seem to take 5 beat loop twice (5 divided as 3 + 2 to be precise) and offsetted by 6 more beats to reach the symmetry.. interesting indeed..

Dear Sharma Sir:
In a way VK's interpretation of the Rhythmic form of this song (Solladha) is complementing your observation that it doesn't fit into Talangas. So I see a kind of harmonized views here with regard to the result. but certainly both VK's as well as CmLover's question which targets the esoteric domain of Talangas and what makes only certain combination acceptable while others are not is very interesting and I look forward to know more :)

With Love
Vicky
Last edited by violinvicky on 08 Nov 2009, 15:31, edited 1 time in total.

msakella
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#14

Post by msakella »

Dear vkvji: Any person having acquaintence with Talaprastara can very easily understand what I speak but others cannot. However, even though you are not at all acquainted with the topic Talaprastara, I shall try thousand times to make you understand as it is my headache as a teacher. But, if you don’t understand you must make it clear to me to enable me try some other method. Ok, do so.

In the topic Talaprastara the Angas are used to be written in two kinds and they are,

1. individual-angas like - Anudruta (U) - Druta (0) - Laghu (I) - Guru (S) - Pluta (Ś - I have searched and got this from symbols, but, actually, Laghu’s symbol should be added above the Guru’s symbol though it is not being treated as a combinative Anga) - Kakapada (+) and

2.along with these individual Angas one or more combinations of Angas (like the above Pluta) i.e., Laghu-virama (Virama should be written above the Laghu), Laghu-druta (Druta should be writen above the Laghu), Laghu-druta-virama (Laghu, Druta above the Laghu and Virama/Anudruta above the Druta - a three-anga-combination) etc., etc., are written.

While there are 3 modes of permutation, 1.modern Panchanga-prastara 2.modern Shadanga-prastara and 3.modern Samyukthanga-prastara, among them, these individual Angas only are used in the 1st and 2nd modes and both individual and combinative-angas are used in the 3rd mode.

As per the established norms each and every Anga has the sounded-beat in the beginning and the later, if at all, are unsounded acts. But, while rendering the combinative-angas they, being the combinations of one or more Angas, certainly have more than one beat depending upon the number of Angas in the combinations. As, rendering more than one beat to a single Anga is against the established norms, these combinative-angas should not be rendered at all.

That is why Talas like Sharabhanandana in which combinative-angas are included, should not be rendered at all. Talas like Simhanandana in which individual Angas only are used could very well be rendered.

Dear cmloverji, This is a very important topic of debate as, if it is taken seriously, this is the deciding factor in finding and increasing the most important rhythmical abiltities of our kids. Irrespective of the view behind selecting these 7-talas particularly, our people are highly interested in following the tradition only than the logic beind it, very foolishly leaving our kids to their fate. Even though we follow the same tradition, leaving our kids very foolishloy to their fate is absolutely suicidal. That is why even though I have followed using the same 7-talas I have modified their seriatim and also introduced 23 kinds of exercises (already furnished in my posts elsewhere) to strengthen the rhythmical abilities of our kids which are available in the Youtube under Kids-svarakalpana. Irrespective of the response I may get I am going to demonstrate such truths only in respect of our defective and affective methods of teaching music in my Lec-dem to be held on 31-12-2009 at the Music Academy, Chennai. amsharma

vasanthakokilam
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#15

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Akellaji: You have explained very clearly about the combinative angas and the individual angas, the established norm of not more than one sounded beat per anga and how the combinative angas violate that norm. I understand. Thanks.

This thread led me to read the thalaprasthara thread. In spite of the truncated posts, I got some basic idea of it and that is quite fascinating. It is indeed a treasure which needs to be preserved. We will have to restore those posts or get them from you and refresh them. The admin or moderator will contact you if needed.

vasanthakokilam
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#16

Post by vasanthakokilam »

vicky: Yes, your stated understanding jives with what I was saying. Regarding on-beat-but-not-first-beat-of-thala eduppu, may be Sivakama Sundari (Mukhari ) qualifies. It is atheetha eduppu but I think it starts bang on the 8th beat and such structure is carried across all stanzas. ( not 100% sure since I have not listened to Sivakama Sundari in a while, you or others can comment.

In general, going off-topic a bit, this eduppu thing is not a big deal in CM, it is quite natural. It is simply a side effect of other over all rhythmic aesthetics like arudhi and strong and weak stresses etc. Thyagaraja uses this much more than MD, but in MD songs, even if the beginning is quite vanilla, there are plenty of non-samam arrangements in the middle of the song. The melody will come to a rest on a beat, then half a beat of silence, then the melody continues. When stripped of all terminological complexities, that is same as the eduppu, except it is not happening in the beginning of the song. Such variations throughout the arrangement are what makes a composition sound like a song as opposed to the various early-lesson varisais.

>Also in the song "Solladha", in the second BGM you can see some experiments with the rhythm (at 3:36) following the pattern of loops of 3 beat cycle and the finishing chorus seem to take 5 beat loop >twice (5 divided as 3 + 2 to be precise) and offsetted by 6 more beats to reach the symmetry.. interesting indeed..

I followed that second Background Music part. As a side bar, the drummer seems to be playing that initial 2 + 3 in a style very similar to the 'Take Five' that you also had referred to. Anyway, I do not think the measure of 2/8 + 3/8 + 3/8 is properly completed at the end of the BGM, the singer seems to take back the song in the middle. ( If this is not correct, please let me know )
May be such things are not strictly followed in film music, but what would have been interesting is to implement a hooksy bridge to take it to the beginning of the measure. But without any of that, the song sounds just fine as it is.

msakella
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#17

Post by msakella »

Dear brother-member, vansanthakokilam, No one needss to contact me to get this thing done, Now itself, I shall send the same files I have sent to violinvicky to you. It is a 2-seconds job and I shall do that now itself. You learn it and do the needful. There ends the matter. amsharma

cmlover
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#18

Post by cmlover »

Dear Sarmaji
In the same vein may we request that you or any of your disciples post the audio/video of your
Lec-dem to be held on 31-12-2009 at the Music Academy. It promises to be quite educational for all of us. Thanks!

vasanthakokilam
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#19

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Thanks Samaji. I have received them and I have restored all the parts in the thalaprasthara thread.

I had time to properly format only the first part. I will work on the formatting the rest of the parts over time.

violinvicky
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#20

Post by violinvicky »

@ VK:
Yes the 3 count loop on 2nd BGM seems to last for 36 counts (Which is 4.5 cycles of the song's meter); An additional 4 counts (To make it 5 proper cycles) would have indeed maintained the wholesome picture.
With Love
Vicky

msakella
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#21

Post by msakella »

cmlover: I do not know whether they take video or audio of my Lec-dem on 31-12-2009 or even they allow others to do. If at all it is done and I get a copy of it I shall certainly post it here. amsharma

vasanthakokilam: Thanks a lot for all the pains you are taking in this connection. Among the 2 parts I have sent to you the Talaprastara-1 is the notes of which the matter was posted in parts in ‘rasikas’ and the Talaprastara-2 contains all the posts of our ‘rasikas’. This is for your kind information. amsharma

msakella
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#22

Post by msakella »

Dear brother-member, cmlover, In continuation to my previous post I want to write this. In fact, I have already brought out each and every minute detail of my novel methods of teaching music in the thread ‘AMS Easy Methods 2007 CD - Teaching and Learning Methods’ under the main thread ‘Sangitakalalaya’. In general, I am always used to take 3 to 4 hrs. duration to demonstrate all these details. But, as I have been given only 50 mts., to demonstrate the same in the Music Academy, Chennai on 31-12-2009 I am compelled to condense my Lec-dem to one-fourth of it by which I am afraid that I have to cut short my demonstrative details also for which I can’t help. In such case it is of no use even if it is videoed or audioed. However, if they arrange for any of them and agree to give me a copy I shall certainly post it in our ‘rasikas’. amsharma

cmlover
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#23

Post by cmlover »

Thanks for your efforts, sir!

Vijayakumar
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#24

Post by Vijayakumar »

Dear AMsharma

can u please let me know the timing of your program in music academy on the 31st?

msakella
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#25

Post by msakella »

Dar brother-member, Vijayakumar, Today only I have seen your post. Extremely sorry for the inordinate delay in replying to your post. My Lec-dem in the Music Academy, Chennai is scheduled from 9.25 am to 10.15 am on 31-12-2009. amsharma

Rasika911
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#26

Post by Rasika911 »

msakella wrote:Dar brother-member, Vijayakumar, Today only I have seen your post. Extremely sorry for the inordinate delay in replying to your post. My Lec-dem in the Music Academy, Chennai is scheduled from 9.25 am to 10.15 am on 31-12-2009. amsharma
Sir i would like to make a humble request on behalf of all keen rasikas/music students/teachers and performers.
If you do not mind can you please record your lec dem and share with us. If it will be distracting to you can you please give permission to someone on this forum so that those of us that cant make it due to our geographic status can also benefit from this lec-dem and also so it can be saved .

msakella
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#27

Post by msakella »

Dear brother-member, Rasika911, You should not request me, dear, you can certainly demand for it and I shall certainly fulfill your demand with pleasure. Some of our friends of the forum have already asked me for this (being old enough I don’t remember from which thread it is) and me too agreed to do the needful in this connection. If at all the authorities of the Music Academy record it I shall try to get a copy of it and upload it. However, as you truly wrote, this work will distract me to do my talk. So, it will be more convenient if one of our forumites arrange to record it and upload it. If it is possible kindly try to entrust this to somebody. If it truly benefits our people I never have any objection to record it. In fact, always my struggle is to benefit our people in every possible way. That’s all. amsharma

srikant1987
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#28

Post by srikant1987 »

Why don't you make it tishra matyam with an eduppu at third beat? :)

keerthi
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#29

Post by keerthi »

violinvicky wrote:Dear Members:

If I set rhythm to a song with the pattern "Tha Ka | Tha Ki Da | Tha Ki Da" (i.e., total of 8 counts) with the strong beats at the count 1, 3 and 6, should I still call it Aadhi talam ?

Please note that, this is a case where the cycle is not divided for experimental purpose, but a whole song is composed with this Sandham (meter);

By that I mean:
1. The rhythm religiously follow the loop of "1 2 | 1 2 3| 1 2 3 " for the duration of complete song
2. Lyrics are written with the same meter; i.e., 3 words in each line; First word measuring 2 Aksharams; Second and third Word measuring 3 Aksharams each.

Crudely put I would like to define this Talam as: 0 1 1 with the lagu of Tisra Jadhi (i.e., one Dhrutham followed by 2 lagus each of 3 aksharams);

But clearly this is not a valid tala that can be defined in the usual 35.

1. Does any Tala already exist with the pattern: 0 1 1 (May be an Anga Talam or so) ? If not, is one allowed to create such a Tala?
2. OR just because the cycle ultimately has 8 aksharams it must be called as Aadhi Talam only ?
this is a variant of Adi tALa, and a similar pattern can be observed in some songs - The paras jAvaLi 'emi jEyudu' and tyAgarAja's Sarasangi piece 'Menu jUci mOsabOkavE' follow a laya pattern of takita-takita-taka, which is kind of like your rhythm sequence.

menu jUci begins after a takita gap, while Emi jEyudu is after a ta (two akshara-s?)

SrinathK
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#30 Re:

Post by SrinathK »

vasanthakokilam wrote:
07 Nov 2009, 21:35
Akellaji: Understood. Thanks for the further clarification.

I am also curious about the more general topic. Arithmetically speaking, what makes the thala like Simhanandana well disciplined (and a thala like Sharabhanandana not well disciplined)?
Is it because the beat count number has some arithmetical properties that enable it to be expressed as a sum of the various talanga beat count numbers?
I finally have an answer for you vk. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=31432&p=339721&hili ... na#p339721

vasanthakokilam
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#31 Re: A Rhythm Cycle of 2+3+3

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Got it Srinath. Great answer.

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