Gati and Jati

raghavt · Post by **raghavt** » 15 Jan 2010, 18:32

Hello Forum Members !!! Greetings

I've a doubt. Let me give you a scenario: One plays Chatusram Sollus in Tisra Nadai. So can we say that he played Chatusra Gati in Tisra Nadai...? Or is it Chatusra Jati in Tisra Nadai...? If we generalise... if we play anything in 'anything'... can we refer the first 'anything' as gati?

Thanks.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 15 Jan 2010, 19:15

One plays Chatusram Sollus in Tisra Nadai. So can we say that he played Chatusra Gati in Tisra Nadai...?

No. You can say that he played a chatusra (or khand, misra, etc) composition in tisra nadai.

raghavt · Post by **raghavt** » 15 Jan 2010, 19:36

Requesting more explanation... can we look it this way??? We play chatusra patterns say TAKADIMI TAKAJONU in Tisra Nadai or in Tisra Gati...
So Chatusra Gati in Tisra Gati (Nadai)??? i think im wrong???

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 15 Jan 2010, 19:40

That's the question I just answered!

Jati, if I recall correctly, relates to the number of counts in a laghu --- but I feel forgetful and confused about these two terms <Blush>

.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 15 Jan 2010, 20:45

See if this thread helps: http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php? ... isram.html

( As Nick said, leave jAti out of this )

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 18 Jan 2010, 10:48

in my opinion , gathi and nadai are both the same . Probably the only difference is gathi is sanskrit term and nadai is a tamil term . For eg, let us take adhi thAlam 1-kalai thisra gathi .

123 123 123 123 123 123 123 123
I II III IV V VI VII VIII

Here roman letters indicate the 8 beats of the thalam . Now let us take chatusra patterns (1234) in thisra gathi .

123 412 341 234 123 412 341 234
I II III IV V VI VII VIII

So when we look at the above examples , both are thisram only . Whether we play eight 123's( 8x3=24) or six 1234's (6x4=24) , the basic calculation is 24 played over a cycle of 8 beats , which is nothing but 3 per beat , which is basically thisram . So i dont see any room for confusion between gathi and nadai .

Probably we can say the second pattern using 1234's as another variation/dimension in playing thisram .

The same applies to khandam also ( again i take adhi thalam 1-kalai) . Whether we play eight 12345's (8x5=40) or ten 1234's ( 4x10=40 ) , we play 40 spread over 8 beats ( 5 per beat ) which is agin khandam only .

12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345

12341 23412 34123 41234 12341 23412 34123 41234

However different schools have different opinions about gathi and nadai being synonymous . This is one debatable topic which will stay forever .

raghavt · Post by **raghavt** » 18 Jan 2010, 20:45

"in my opinion, gathi and nadai are both the same " - statement by brother rasika semmu86. I also hold the same view.
Why???

Gati - We refer to the speed. Tisra Gati, Chatusra Gati etc differ in Aksharas... thats the difference in the defnition of the patterns. Now, how does this difference actually reflect when we implement it ??? implementation=playing??? It differs in the speed or 'kAlam' but kAlapramAnam is the same. We play chatusram as chatusram. The speed is different, the effect is different. We play Chatusram in Tisram (for that matter in any other nadai), the speed and effect is different.

So, we can refer the speed-variations as Gati-variations. Eg, When we play Chatusra patterns in Tisra Time Frame or Tisram Speed (Gati), we are essentially playing Chatusra Gati (speed) in Tisra Gati (speed). So, we play Chatusra Gati in Tisra Gati. I think we can refer in this manner.

You replace Gati with Nadai, the above explanation does not change.

jAti and jati are different from Gati and Nadai. So, I'm not dragging jAti and jati to increase the confusion. Thanks for all inputs.

~ Raghav.

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 19 Jan 2010, 11:44

raghavt - I think we are complicating too much w.r.t gathi and nadai . The point i was trying to make is very simple . Either we play eight 123's or six 1234's , it is basically thisram . . You are absolutely right in telling the effect varies when we play chatusra patterns in thisram..Because during gathi bedham , the kAlapramanam remains the same , only the number pf aksharas per beat determine what gathi/nadai we are playing .. Probably playing 1234's instead of 123's we can call it as another dimension of thisram , as playing 1234's makes the thisram aesthetically more beautiful , thereby masking its obviousness.

Again as i said earlier , different people feel comfortable in expressing this in their own way and we have to leave it at whichever way they feel comfortable ..

msakella · Post by **msakella** » 19 Jan 2010, 13:04

Yes, you are absolutely right. In our country we have many kinds of traditions leaving alone their logic behind and to keep ourselves in peace it is better to leave them at whichever way they feel comfortable. amsharma

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 19 Jan 2010, 13:47

semmu86 wrote:raghavt - I think we are complicating too much w.r.t ...

There is a tendency, even a desire, to overcomplicate these things. The theory is complex enough without making it worse. We should try to simplify, not make more complex!