what are the characterestics of a good mridangam accompanist

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rananthga
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Joined: 25 Jan 2010, 18:58

what are the characterestics of a good mridangam accompanist

Post by rananthga »

I am curious to hear your (i.e. rasikas, performing artistes) thoughts on this question - what are some of the characteristics of a good mridangam accompanist? Also it would be great if you can share some examples of people who stand out in your mind as a good accompanist. What makes them unique?

VK RAMAN
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Re: Who makes a good mridangam accompanist?

Post by VK RAMAN »

IMHO, One who understands and knows how the vocalist sings, plays mrdangam in lows and highs depending on vocalist sound, brings sweet sound from mrdangam, engages and compliments other artists and above all knows how to please the listeners.

Vijayakumar
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Re: what are the characterestics of a good mridangam accompa

Post by Vijayakumar »

In addition to what VKR has given - should be fully in synch with the speed and moods of the song. Many times some mridangisits are speedening the notes unnecessarily to attract people towards them spoiling the slow bhava of the song. Also there should be some distinction in the thani plays for the beta raagas like Bhairavi, thodi etc., compared to the alpha raagas like kalyani, shankarabharanam etc.,

mohan
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Re: what are the characterestics of a good mridangam accompa

Post by mohan »

This article by BRC Iyengar about Why listeners walk away during a tani,
may be of interest
http://www.krishnaganasabha.org/article ... yengar.pdf

vasanthakokilam
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Re: what are the characterestics of a good mridangam accompa

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Thanks Mohan. The last sentence in the article packs a powerful punch.

srikant1987
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Re: what are the characterestics of a good mridangam accompa

Post by srikant1987 »

But it doesn't help. Different audiences, and different individuals in the same audience may appreciate different proportions of the "regular" and the "irregular".

vasanthakokilam
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Re: what are the characterestics of a good mridangam accompa

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Srikant, It may not help if you look at it in a quantitative way as a linear mean. But that is not what BRC Iyengar is going for. He is asking the mridangists to strive for the aesthetic mean which in effect is achieved through different proportions of "regular" and "irregular" with aesthetics as the decider in helping to choose the various proportions. Of course easier said than done. Recall that he is building up to that last "advice" sentence with supporting material throughout the article, especially in that last paragraph.

If one has a large enough repertoire of regular and irregular, different aesthetic means can be achieved in different concerts. He does not say it explicitly, but that is the corollary. Clues to that are in the earlier part of the article where he talks about PMI.

mridangamkid
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Re: what are the characterestics of a good mridangam accompa

Post by mridangamkid »

I would like to resurrect this dead conversation simply because this question is very fascinating to me, and one that I have thought about for quite some time. Naturally what we are talking about is a subjective matter, hence there is no "right" answer, but then why -- say-- is Palghat Mani Iyer considered (almost inarguably) one of the greatest mridangam to live?

First we must realize the difference between accompaniment and thani. While it may seem simple and mundane, I feel it is necessary have a consensus on what the difference is. To me, very simply put-- the ultimate goal of a mridangist in the thani is to exemplify how good of a mridangist he/she is; whereas, the ultimate goal of the mridangist during accompaniment is to show how good the main artist (or even more so, the concert) is. Before I continue, I should state (again) that this is a subjective matter, thus, anything I say is simply what I have noticed through listening, if anybody would like to discuss this or challenge me, I would absolutely love it.

I agree with others that of course having strong and clear strokes, as well as understanding the mood/pace of the song is required, however I would say that is simply a pre-requisite. To me, it goes much deeper than knowing the pace of the song (though I'm not saying every mridangist does this), but what I have been asking is what exactly separates a "good" mridangist from a "great" one.

Despite my learning under the puddukotti bani, I still must stay in order to listen to near perfect mridangam accompaniment, one must turn to Palghat Mani Iyer. Even more specifically, one should listen to the trio of ARI-TNK-PMI. The chemistry between these three vidwans I feel is unmatched to anything we see today. I remember reading an article (I believe it was an interview with TNK on his 80th birthday) saying that ARI would not let his younger accompanist look into the audience early on, but rather they had to fully focus on him, and this is what helped build their chemistry.

While I agree with others that have stated the importance for mridangist to know the how the vocalist sings as well as knowing the songs, I feel that only scratches the surface. To me, it is the ability to anticipate what the artist is about to sing prior to him or her singing it. This may seem a bit cliche'd, but I don't simply mean "playing fast when the singer holds a higher octave note" or knowing how to play the chittaswaram-- rather-- it's the ability to recognize and anticipate the subtle nuances that each singer himself may employ differently per concert.

An example I have is a concert of ARI with PMI on the mridangam. I cut up part of the concert into a 20 second clip of him singing "Endaro Mahanubavulu". Before you listen, I must warn you that what I am talking about is VERY subtle. You may think I'm crazy for saying something like this is "genius" or analyzing such a trivial thing too in depth (which I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong) but these are the type of minor things that truly get me excited. Here is the sendspace download. http://www.sendspace.com/file/kbppxn

When listening to this, I want you to focus in on the last syllable of "vandanamulu"-- more specifically at 2 seconds, 13 seconds, and 25 seconds. Listen to how close PMI's stroke was to the lyrics and how his pattern was different each time. Again maybe it is just me who notices these things, or maybe I'm noticing something that is not there, but I feel this is just one thing that separates a "good" mridangist from a "great" one. If I'm not clear on this please let me know and I'd try to explain what I mean a bit better.

This post ended up being a lot longer than I anticipated so unfortunately (for me at least) I won't be able to further explain what I think makes a "great" mridangam accompanist today, but-- to put it shortly--I believe it includes the ability to listen and use silence to his/her advantage, and having proper sound control.

Anyway, I do hope this discussion continues because I think it's an interesting topic!

Nick H
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Re: what are the characterestics of a good mridangam accompa

Post by Nick H »

Ithink I remember mridnagamkid as a beginner --- now he is no longer a kid but a scholar and a connoisseur. perhaps a skilled player too.

There is just one thing I would like to challenge, or at rather discuss, and that is the thani role of the mridangist.
the ultimate goal of a mridangist in the thani is to exemplify how good of a mridangist he/she is ...
But he still has to do it within the context of the concert, and even the context of the song of which the thani is part, because it ispart of that song, and I think that this is one of the differences that you seek between good and great.
I believe it includes the ability to listen and use silence to his/her advantage, and having proper sound control.
Are there several different things here?

1. Including silence in the composition and/or minimal strokes where appropriate/artistic

2. Dynamics. The ability to play not only slow/fast but also quiet/loud, and to recognise when this is appropriate.

I think that the second might be difficult for young mridangists for two reasons:

--- they practice to strengthen the hands and fingers, so playing loud becomes simply what they do.

--- they become used to playing in to a microphone. In a way, the opposite to the weak-voice problem of carnatic music.

Rsachi
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Re: what are the characterestics of a good mridangam accompa

Post by Rsachi »

Young man "mridangamkid",
I share your passion for great mridangam music. I am discovering treasures in that area all the time.

You have inspired me to pen a Sanskrit verse to define what I think makes great mridangam accompaniment:

padalAlitya rasOdbharitaM
layavinyAsa parimita-bhaNitaM
sthUla-sUkshma-mauna-militaM
Iti layavAdanaM atiSubha-lalitaM

Translation:
That which fills the inherent musicality of lyrics=words with even more flavour,
Which presents the tani=solos with brevity and beauty
, which is full of strong and soft strokes and silences,
Such percussion augurs well and is very beautiful.

Nick H
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Re: what are the characterestics of a good mridangam accompa

Post by Nick H »

I wish we still had a "like" button :)

rajeshnat
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Re: what are the characterestics of a good mridangam accompa

Post by rajeshnat »

mridangamkid wrote: When listening to this, I want you to focus in on the last syllable of "vandanamulu"-- more specifically at 2 seconds, 13 seconds, and 25 seconds. Listen to how close PMI's stroke was to the lyrics and how his pattern was different each time. Again maybe it is just me who notices these things, or maybe I'm noticing something that is not there, but I feel this is just one thing that separates a "good" mridangist from a "great" one. If I'm not clear on this please let me know and I'd try to explain what I mean a bit better.

!
MridangamKid
I appreciate you taking the time to put a CONTEXT around in what you are talking . While the 2nd second vandanamulu , I was not able to catch . I appreciate the 13th and 25th second where for the same vandhanamulu there is a certain variance in rhythmn that gives that extra shine . With respect to PMI , the azhuttam of every stroke where the sound quality is so good and he giving a silence at regular intervals adds that extra sharpness to our ears.

I would love u to take some thing like a PSP-MMI ragamaliga swaras or a flash of MMI swaras in a sudden Ma janaki and if you can take up thru the same route that would be lovely. In general if you take even PSP(for a mmi),TS(for a SSI),UKS(for a MDR) ,Palakkad raghu (for a KVN )in a neraval or swaras that would be great , quite frankly during rendition of neraval or swaras only I observe the brilliance of Mrudangam artist where the anticipation skills prior to what the singer sings is in play.

mridangamkid
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Re: what are the characterestics of a good mridangam accompa

Post by mridangamkid »

Nick H wrote:Ithink I remember mridnagamkid as a beginner --- now he is no longer a kid but a scholar and a connoisseur. perhaps a skilled player too.

There is just one thing I would like to challenge, or at rather discuss, and that is the thani role of the mridangist.
I completely agree with this. I was not going to touch thani yet because I feel like that is an entirely different (and long) conversation in itself. I do agree that the thani is part of the song but what I meant is that -- IMHO-- the role of the mridangist shifts when accompanying (roughly 90% of the concert) and playing the thani (10%). Naturally at all times the mridangist should try to make the concert as successful as possible, but I feel in order for this to happen, the role of the mridangist must change. To put it another way, the thought process should be different. While playing for a song, I feel the mridangist should not be thinking how well he/she can "play" per say (in terms of speed, complexity, or rigor), rather how well he/she can make the total package of the concert, which includes making the main artist look good. During thani-- while yes, a good thani should be an extension of the song-- the purpose of the thani is to showcase the mridangist. Thus, the thought process should be "how complex can I play this, how can I impress". Ultimately, I believe while accompanying,t he mridangist should be selfish, whereas during thani, they should be a bit more selfish.
1. Including silence in the composition and/or minimal strokes where appropriate/artistic

2. Dynamics. The ability to play not only slow/fast but also quiet/loud, and to recognise when this is appropriate.

I think that the second might be difficult for young mridangists for two reasons:

--- they practice to strengthen the hands and fingers, so playing loud becomes simply what they do.

--- they become used to playing in to a microphone. In a way, the opposite to the weak-voice problem of carnatic music.
I think there are many different things here (and even more beyond that which I can't get to right now).

For #2, I realize especially at a young age teachers tell students to play stronger in order to strengthen the hands, however one thing I always say is there is a difference between playing "strong" and "loud".

"Strong" means playing with confidence and not hitting any stroke half heartedly. producing a "strong" stroke will give a clear tone and although it can be loud, it necessarily doesn't have to be.

"Loud" IMO simply means noise. The stroke does not necessarily have to be clear and doesn't necessarily need proper technique. Anybody can play loud, not everybody can play "strong" .

mridangamkid
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Re: what are the characterestics of a good mridangam accompa

Post by mridangamkid »

rajeshnat wrote: MridangamKid
I appreciate you taking the time to put a CONTEXT around in what you are talking . While the 2nd second vandanamulu , I was not able to catch . I appreciate the 13th and 25th second where for the same vandhanamulu there is a certain variance in rhythmn that gives that extra shine . With respect to PMI , the azhuttam of every stroke where the sound quality is so good and he giving a silence at regular intervals adds that extra sharpness to our ears.

I would love u to take some thing like a PSP-MMI ragamaliga swaras or a flash of MMI swaras in a sudden Ma janaki and if you can take up thru the same route that would be lovely. In general if you take even PSP(for a mmi),TS(for a SSI),UKS(for a MDR) ,Palakkad raghu (for a KVN )in a neraval or swaras that would be great , quite frankly during rendition of neraval or swaras only I observe the brilliance of Mrudangam artist where the anticipation skills prior to what the singer sings is in play.
That's very interesting, because I felt the 2nd vandanamulu is the best example of where PMI shows his brilliance. During the 1st one, the way ARI sings the phrase I felt was rather standard by singing 4 notes (lu u u u ). The third one, because he leads into the phrase in the manner he did, PMI played it again somewhat standard by (yet still keeping in sync with the singer). During the second one, ARI divides the phrase differently than what we normally hear (not only by him, but by almost anybody). He divides it into 3, think "Tha kita", however holding the "ki" for an extra note, thus "Tha ki- T". Now notice how PMI plays it... the exact same way ARI sings it. Most other mridangist would play just like the first "mulu" by playing a 4 note phrase, as opposed to a 3 note.

You can also hear what I mean by using silence to his advantage here. Listen to the second "Vandanamulu", what does PMI play? Nothing. While some rasikas may not like how he at times does not even touch the drum, I think it adds a great deal to the concert. This was just a minor example of him using silence mid concert but there are a plethora of examples you could find of PMI with many different artists. So after he waits and anticipates how to play this second "mulu", he then crashes in and plays it strong, but not loud, which is what I meant in my previous post. Here he plays the notes with confidence (not at all second guessing which pattern he should play) and with clarity, yet he did not over power the singer nor violinist.

Nick H
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Re: what are the characterestics of a good mridangam accompa

Post by Nick H »

Acknowledging your further very interesting posts, which I do not want to seem to be ignoring if I just throw in a couple of things, rather than trying to respond more fully. You are way ahead of me anyway in technicality and appreciation --- and I'm very happy to be able to say that!

A couple of quotes from my guruji... On accompaniment: "If you play to make yourself look good, you will look bad. If you play to make the main artist look good, you will look good." On thani: "If you play stuff the main artist does not understand, and cannot keep talam to, they will never ask you to play for them again." So the mridangist does not have complete freedom, even in the thani. Recently, although I don't remember his words. K Arunprakash told me that he takes in to account the artists, the concert and the audience in decided what to play.

vasanthakokilam
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Re: what are the characterestics of a good mridangam accompa

Post by vasanthakokilam »

If you play to make yourself look good, you will look bad. If you play to make the main artist look good, you will look good
Your guruji is ahead of his times. This is sort of similar to what Management gurus say 'If you play to make yourself look good, you will look bad. If you play to make the team look good, you will look good'

VK RAMAN
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Re: what are the characterestics of a good mridangam accompa

Post by VK RAMAN »

This is true of vocal artist also. If Artists sings to look good onself, Artist will look bad. If Artist sings to look Guru and the accompanists look good, Artist will look good.

advaitin
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Re: what are the characterestics of a good mridangam accompa

Post by advaitin »

Mridangam Kid

May i share this clip. Same combo , different concert /song .
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/xh9vauk ... agatha.mp3
the overall playing is outstanding. the anupallavi starting somewhere around 8:37 and for me , magic at 9:03
Hope you like this

mridangamkid
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Re: what are the characterestics of a good mridangam accompa

Post by mridangamkid »

Advaitin, thank you for sharing this song. Believe me, I've listened to this recording numerous of times. PMI literally sings with his mridangam.

One thing I like, which is something PMI does often, happens at the end of anupallavi (roughly starting 10:15). He doesn't even touch the mridangam. This is what I mean when I say he can really use silence to his advantage. Especially after the onslaught from 10:06-10:13, I think it kind of let's the listeners digest what just happened.

Another great example that still rings in my ears (unfortunately I can't find the recording) is a rendition of Ma Janaki Ariyakudi sir sang. After the pallavi was ending, for an ENTIRE avarthanam, PMI played absolutely nothing. You could hear a pin drop, tension was building as you just heard silence for an entire cycle, yet you know everything was planned because with a BANG, ARI started with "raja rajavare" perfectly in sync with the violinist and PMI mimicking the notes on his mridangam. You could cut the tension with a knife during that 10 or so seconds of pure silence but then with a bang, the anupallavi started.

This brings up another point I've often thought about and that is the role of the theermanam (endings between pallavi, anupallavi and charanam) within a concert. Perhaps it is just me noticing, but listening to yester-year artists including CS Muragaboopathy, Palghat Mani Iyer, or Pazhani Subramania Pillai (among others), the endings they play are typically subdued and more "to the point" for lack of a better phrase. Even for longer songs, usually it would a small half avarthanam ending or at the most, a full avartham (if it's single kala), but I never really heard them play a long elaborate theermanam to end a song or transition between the 3 parts of the song. Why the change? I personally liked it when the endings weren't too long, it keeps the flow of the concert going without any kinks. This is just my opinion of course.

advaitin
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Re: what are the characterestics of a good mridangam accompa

Post by advaitin »

i will search for that Ma janaki in my recordings. yes - the wait for the charanam to start is something PMI does time and again with stunning results. I do have the full concert which includes that above todi rendering. Let me know if you have the full concert - else glad to share it with u. starting with kanada, sree, then pantuvarali, poorvi kalyani, YK, varali, todi, sankarabharanam, bilahari , kharaharapriya and vasantha all in one concert - that is one rocking concert :)

Nick H
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Re: what are the characterestics of a good mridangam accompa

Post by Nick H »

I never really heard them play a long elaborate theermanam to end a song or transition between the 3 parts of the song. Why the change? I personally liked it when the endings weren't too long, it keeps the flow of the concert going without any kinks.
I answered this yesterday, but I must have clicked the wrong button. Anyway, briefly...

I don't think there is a change. Some mridangists like to continue on after the song, like getting the last word, but the majority, in the majority of songs, will finish the theermanam with the main artist. Within the song, the main artist is not at all expected to wait for them: they must fit in, and play theermanams appropriately. All part of the skill of anticipation!

mridangamkid
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Re: what are the characterestics of a good mridangam accompa

Post by mridangamkid »

I do indeed have the full concert. When it comes to ARI, I feel like I must have nearly every available recording there is, if not I must be close. I think that is one of the things I like most about his concerts though, his song list. He rarely will sing "light" ragams, every single song will pack a punch.

Nick H

While I agree that within the song the theermanams may not be too elaborate, I would still say when ending the song, mridangist today (myself included) tend to end with a longer theermanam rather than a simple/shorter one. Not that one way is "right" or "wrong", but from my observation, it seems like that is how it is. For example, how many 64 akshara theermanams would you hear PMI or PSP play? Even for 32 aksharas, the theermanams seemed a lot more subdued (such as playing dhinakuku thakadhina tham, dhinakuku thakadhina tham, dhinakuku thakadhina tham). I don't believe I've heard PMI or PSP and very rarely CSM give a full avarthanam theermanam even at the end of the main, whereas it is much more common now.

Again, perhaps my observation is a bit misguided but it's an interesting question I've thought about a bit.

VK RAMAN
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Re: what are the characterestics of a good mridangam accompa

Post by VK RAMAN »

What is light ragam?

Nick H
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Re: what are the characterestics of a good mridangam accompa

Post by Nick H »

I have not done very much historical listening, but I do quite a lot of live listening. I have occasionally seen mridangists carry on beyond the main artist for a long (my definition would be anything that does not finish with the main artist, ie, playing "solo," regardless of the length in aksharas) for multiple songs in a concert. It is, in my experience, rare. I also don't like it.

mridangamkid
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Re: what are the characterestics of a good mridangam accompa

Post by mridangamkid »

VK RAMAN,

That is a good question and perhaps the word "light" is incorrect, however that is typically how identify it. First I should say, while I do have some knowledge when it comes to thalam, when it comes to ragam, ---not so much. If you were to ask me to give you a "technical" answer for what a light ragam is I probably couldn't give it to you. I would categorize "light" as more HIndustani "type" ragams, (perhaps even derived?). Notice a lot of the quotation marks I"m putting in, that is because the words I am using may not be technically correct, and I frankly am not able to express what I mean properly. I'm not sure if it may be because the the arohanam/avarohanam has more minor notes as opposed to major, or perhaps it is simply the style in which singers sing it, but --- and I know this doesn't really help-- it's more "light". I joke with some friends saying it's not "caffeinated". Hearing these ragams puts me to sleep rather than keeping me on my toes. This very well may just be me, and a lot of it may have to be with what I listened to even as a toddler. An example of "light" ragam I would say is Hindolam. Again, if you were to ask me WHY, it is.. I couldn't answer, and again, what I"m saying could be completely off base, but it's something I've personally felt. Perhaps I should listen more...

Nick H

I think I understand what you are saying, and I agree, but perhaps I wasn't clear in my previous post. What I am talking about isn't simply where the mridangist ends. I agree, usually the mridangist ends when the main singer finishes the song (the singer will carry out the note and end on cue with the mridangist), however what I am talking about is more, how long it takes the mridangist to get to that spot. It's a little tough to explain via writing, I'm unable to right now but I"ll try and provide specific examples as to what I mean later to night. It very well could be the style of the singer that leads to a more "quick" ending but I"ll see if I can dig up some examples tonight.

VK RAMAN
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Re: what are the characterestics of a good mridangam accompa

Post by VK RAMAN »

mridanghamkid: You have beautifully explained what is light and that makes me ponder how each one of us interpret ragams, kritis, etc. Keep up your learning process and continue your creative way of relating to carnatic musics different aspects.

Nick H
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Re: what are the characterestics of a good mridangam accompa

Post by Nick H »

mridangamkid wrote: I think I understand what you are saying, and I agree, but perhaps I wasn't clear in my previous post. What I am talking about isn't simply where the mridangist ends. I agree, usually the mridangist ends when the main singer finishes the song (the singer will carry out the note and end on cue with the mridangist), however what I am talking about is more, how long it takes the mridangist to get to that spot. It's a little tough to explain via writing, I'm unable to right now but I"ll try and provide specific examples as to what I mean later to night. It very well could be the style of the singer that leads to a more "quick" ending but I"ll see if I can dig up some examples tonight.

OK, I understand what you mean: you have explained clearly :)

I'll try to watch out for it. Generally, I go by the rule that if something fits in, then it was a right and appropriate thing to do. It might make it less noticeable. Like good driving doesn't stand out on the roads! This may include an ending of the kind that you describe, or it may not. It depends on the moment.

That's just an off-the-cuff response: I'll come back to it after a few more concerts if I feel I can add, or change, anything in it.

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