Kriyas & Angas - Significance to musical & lyrical structure

Tālam & Layam related topics
Vinay
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#26 Re: RaagaRasika - A Podcast series on Carnatic music

Post by Vinay » 19 May 2016, 19:46

Nick H wrote:That any kriya was defined, in long-past days, as "having sound" was a great disservice to future generations, who not only have to live with the confusion, but also feel licensed to make sound when sound should only be made by those on stage!

Kriyas are a kind of notation, or signalling system. If all the numbers had the same name, we could still count, but nobody would understand. We do not give every beat in a cycle a different name, but we use sufficient number of names so that people may not be lost. Kriyas are, simply, symbolic of those names.

...

If we are to try to associate stress, or emphasis, with "sounded" kriyas, then what do we make of Misra Chapu talam, where the first two kriyas are (or should be!) without sound?
I wonder why this thread died off, apparently without a proper resolution.

If, as you say (and as I also gather from other posts in this thread, by Sarmaji), there is no difference between the sashabda kriya and the nishabda kriya that is actually reflected in the performed music, if different talas with the same count (for example, adi, tishra jaati matya, khanda jaati jhampa, etc.) are interchangeable then why would the eduppu/graha of any composition by anything other than samam? Why can we not start Endaro Mahanubhavulu right at the "start" of the adi tala is is most familiar? What about ata tala varnams like Viriboni? It's already a long and complicated talam, wouldn't it be easier to start singing at the start of the tala cycle, if it made no difference in the music produced?

I have been trying to understand talam for a very long time now (like many others in this forum, I think!), and I would say I never had a strong sense of laya, to begin with (for, like most people, I found it easy to identify ragas almost as soon as I started listening to Indian classical music, and also developed a good grasp of swarasthanas soon enough, but could never really "feel" talas until I started trying consciously to develop it, and that has been going on for a long time now). Still, now I have a reasonable ability to feel and recognize the most common talas (almost always without actual counting), and even "sense" the eduppu correctly most of the time. So how can we resolve this with the claim that the kriyas and all "elements" of tala are only a system to make it easier to count, and have no musical bearing, and it is only the total count that really matters?

Also, regarding mishra chapu, I know use a nishabda kriya (veechu) to indicate the start, but have no idea why they do that. I've always found is natural to use only three claps (at the places 1, 4, 6)! In fact, this was the only talam I could actually "feel" at first, probably because of its chapu nature, and that too, mostly only in film songs (I suppose because they're generally faster). Again, if you maintain that only the count matters, I would ask you to try "putting" the mishra chapu tala to some familiar song but in a different way than usual! For example if it is Mamava Pattabhirama (Manirangu), the actual (or usual) split is:

||1 2 3 | 4 5 | 6 7 ||
|| Maaa | ma | va ||
||Pa... | tta. | abhi ||
||Raa.. | aa.. | ma..||

Instead, "reverse" the tala structure, so that it is now ||1 2 | 3 4 | 5 6 7 || (|| ta ka | dhi mi | ta ki ta ||), and try fitting this with the song (while it is playing, not while you sing it). Does it feel natural?
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Nick H
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#27 Re: Kriyas & Angas - Significance to musical & lyrical structure

Post by Nick H » 19 May 2016, 20:49

So how can we resolve this with the claim that the kriyas and all "elements" of tala are only a system to make it easier to count, and have no musical bearing, and it is only the total count that really matters?
The quote of mine that you picked out was much more to do with audience behaviour than musical structure! I don't need some human metronome making open-handed clapping or thigh-slapping noises off the stage, even in some delicate and meditative neraval. Making the gestures and keeping the time, ie putting the tala, is a different matter. Whilst I'm sure some people might benefit from just listening, for a change, some parts of the music are so syncopated that it is a huge challenge to keep the tala, and I absolutely appreciate those who are able to do so. I even sneak a glance at such a helpful hand sometimes, when I am rhythmically baffled.

I don't actually think that it is only the total count that matters.

Edupu is an odd thing: there are songs which, if you don't know the edupu, you can count from samam, and everything, samam to samam seems to work out. When we eventually learn that the the edupu of that song is not actually on the samam, it seems to have been arbitrarily shifted! I'm sure it isn't: I'm sure there must be subtleties that I don't see, There are also many songs where, if we try to count them from [in adi talam] from first clap to final wave, the number of beats (counts if you prefer) will be right, but the feeling will not be: it does not sound natural.

In many adi talam songs, we can, even if we don't know it, comfortable divide the cycle in half. We can observe two parts to the line. What is very much more difficult is to observe the four and then two separate twos: mostly, adi talam sounds to me like 4+4, rather than 4+2+2. Perhaps musicians are aware of that, at least in some compositions. Perhaps, even a lot of rasikas are. I am just an elementary music lover, not even a proper rasika!
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Vinay
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#28 Re: Kriyas & Angas - Significance to musical & lyrical structure

Post by Vinay » 19 May 2016, 21:53

Ah, I see! Thanks for the quick reply and the clarification. I agree with your observation about the 4+4 vs. 4+2+2 structure in some adi tala compositions.
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Nick H
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#29 Re: Kriyas & Angas - Significance to musical & lyrical structure

Post by Nick H » 19 May 2016, 22:24

What I seem to remember maintaining in the past is that the essence of the tala is in the angas, not the kriyas. I put this point of view because very many people are very very attached to their claps, finger counts, waves, and the others. it is as if they feel the music could not exist without them.

The music could not exist without the angas, and the numbers that they consist of. They can be expressed as claps,waves, fingers, but could be also expressed, when they need to be communicated to others, by any other visual code. to take this out of context, a western orchestra could just as well understand two claps and a wave as indicating 3/4 time and its beats, as the three sweeps of the baton.

The numbers are vital. The grouping is important, if not also vital; the gestures are arbitrary.

That's how I understand things, anyway... but hey, I never really got beyond first-year mridangam, and have not pretended to be any sort of a student for over ten years now. Admitting my lack of actual qualification, I would still stress that it is what I have understood: it may well be what was learnt by rote in the mridangam classroom.
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Vinay
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#30 Re: Kriyas & Angas - Significance to musical & lyrical structure

Post by Vinay » 19 May 2016, 22:39

Ah, I see the distinction you make between the kriya and the anga. Then we're in full agreement, I believe. In fact, I think it's common to sometimes use two fast (double-speed) claps (sashabda) in place of the final veechu (nishabda) of the adi tala. I too, for my own amusement, sometimes use something akin to a "chapu rendering" of the adi tala when listening: 1 clap, 3 silent counts (no kriya at all), 1 clap, 1 silent count, 1 clap, 2 double-speed claps [a geometric progression, just for fun — if my hand were fast enough, I could get in an infinite number of claps in this way into one tala cycle!].
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Nick H
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#31 Re: Kriyas & Angas - Significance to musical & lyrical structure

Post by Nick H » 20 May 2016, 01:46

Yes, I think we agree!

My personal adaptation, or modification )or appropriate 21st-century term), which I do to make keeping the count easier for my not-very-laya-attuned brain is to count the up beats as well as the down beats, thus giving myself a "half" beat. I'm aware that some people do this with the other hand.

There is the dogma... the theory as codified. No, I'm not presuming to try and alter that, but there are ways that we can make the practice work better, or easier, for ourselves
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shankarank
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#32 Re: Kriyas & Angas - Significance to musical & lyrical structure

Post by shankarank » 22 May 2016, 00:41

As regards miSra cApu or other cApu tALAs , the flow is faster - and the vIccu is used to differentiate the 3 section in the 3, 2, 2 - so that there is no confusion. But once a musician has internalized it very well this distinction is easy without that prop - and they can tap away turn-less.

rUpaka tALa which has tap, tap wave in the faster cApu style version - the taps do get distinguished in many kritis when it comes to stress points.

As regards the slower tALAs , there exist kritIs that do conform to the stresses of the saSabda kriyAs in the tAlA angas of 4, 2, 2. Examples would be the 2 kaLai kritis of tyAgaraja Eta vunnara (kalyANI), koluva mara(todi), kaddanu vAriki, enduku pettala, swara rAga sudha, cakkani rAja and so on.

The kriti line goes ascending on the scale at the beginning , and has to round off with a descent in the second line.. etc. I have read a more systematic explanation somewhere by Dr N. Ramanathan or Harold Powers as to the puRvAnga and uttarAnga on each line.. somewhere - will have to search for it. The 4, 2, 2 structure comes in handy here!.
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vasanthakokilam
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#33 Re: Kriyas & Angas - Significance to musical & lyrical structure

Post by vasanthakokilam » 22 May 2016, 02:05

Thanks Shankarank for those examples. Those are quite appropriate for the main topic of this thread.

We have discussed these matters in different threads at different times. It will be good to move the general understanding of these matters forward and not get stuck in the incomplete explanation that has always been given. I re-read this many years old thread and Akellaji provided many useful information that indeed moved the understanding forward. That is excellent indeed.

We also need to remove the inherent fuzziness in these matters. Sometimes it is not possible, so be it, it is worth trying.

In a different thread ('question on characteristics of vilamba kala krithis'), I hypothesized a model with enough expressive power to accommodate all that we have talked about in this thread as well as other related threads.

http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic ... 97#p300497

As you can see, the fundamental axiom of this hypothesis is very primitive and universal, namely, any rhythmic structure inherent in the music has to be reducible to a 'stress structure'. Everything else follows from that rather obvious observation. I came up with various degrees of stresses and use that to define the various rhythmic entities of CM we talk about ( angas, arudi, eduppu, kaLai, tempo, speed etc. ).

I am not claiming that this is the actual truth in fact that is what I would like to know. How much of what I state there is actually true of CM? And do we need anything more to describe the rhythm of CM?

(I have copied and pasted the contents of the above link a few posts down as per suggestion by shankarank. Thx )
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shankarank
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#34 Re: Kriyas & Angas - Significance to musical & lyrical structure

Post by shankarank » 22 May 2016, 10:07

VK,
I did read your stress spec.. You are well on your way to formally specify tyAgaraja transform that Dikshitar compositions are subjected to :lol:

As regards the details - I think beats 3 and 7 many times end up not on the same footing as M- leaving 4, 2, 2 still relevant.

Apart from stress - there is the also the yati - the combination of long and short ( or progression from short to long or reverse) which needs to be specified. On singing those familiar examples I cited - the long short pattern before arudhi glides over beat 3 - whereas the same stresses on 7.

Given the combinatorics discussion msakella has had - we have to see which combinations of long and short makes for a weighty kriti ( that is a heuristic end result based on our musical experience - not sure how we will make a specification for it). I tried ( in my Brief history of time thread ) by asking how many beats (kriyas of the tAla) can be made subtle - i.e. karvais of sAhitya go over them!. All beats cannot be made subtle as you need anchor beats ( your stresses) . In tyAgaraja scenario even landings before the pauses are also pre-beat - i.e. they don't land on the arudhi like RTP pallavi lines.

His simpler compositions ( like for e.g Ramisuvarevura) that seemingly hug the beats as composed - are malleable enough to be mangled - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOxT8gxAUew - to produce this subtle-ing of beats.

<< On re-hearing that recording Dr BMK does that minimally in this instance - but there is one where he does all possibilities on that pallavi line - not able to locate that video >>

Should we be thinking it terms of deriving a grammar like this one - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venpa - in our case the strings are just arbitrary combination of long and short? We need some data feed with machine learning to reverse engineer one may be!

Not sure if tyAgarAjA's lines fall into a class of poetry like that!
Last edited by shankarank on 22 May 2016, 22:47, edited 2 times in total.
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Nick H
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#35 Re: Kriyas & Angas - Significance to musical & lyrical structure

Post by Nick H » 22 May 2016, 14:10

VK, that is an excellent post which I hadn't seen before.
shankarank wrote:Apart from stress - there is the also the yati - the combination of long and short ( or progression from short to long or reverse) which needs to be specified.
Apart from the regular cycle of stresses in music there is also the freedom to, at least temporarily, escape from the pattern: syncopation. Syncopation covers all those instances where (my simplistic understanding) the stress comes where it shouldn't.
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shankarank
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#36 Re: Kriyas & Angas - Significance to musical & lyrical structure

Post by shankarank » 22 May 2016, 18:53

Nick H, yes I have seen that discussion here ( an old thread again) - where the dESAdi (not the classic that RaviSri discussed - the 1-1/2 eduppu Adi one) tALa compositions have that... but that is an alternating - syncopation vs. lack of it that is very regular. Here we are talking something more arbitrary - but not all possibilities may come out as good.
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Nick H
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#37 Re: Kriyas & Angas - Significance to musical & lyrical structure

Post by Nick H » 23 May 2016, 03:28

Thinking about this thread, I remembered a couple of things tangential to the rhythmic-stress issues. They may be tangential to carnatic music: I'm not sure.

One is that, when I was taught to read western poetry, I was taught to read according to the sense of the words, rather than be taken over by the rhythm.

The child will naturally speak the rhymes with heavy emphasis on the rhythm. Which brings me on the to the second thing: that is how they play music too.
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vasanthakokilam
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#38 Re: Kriyas & Angas - Significance to musical & lyrical structure

Post by vasanthakokilam » 23 May 2016, 09:59

Thank you Shankaran and Nick for re-engaging in this favorite topic of mine!!

While I still feel there is that fuzziness on the main topic of this thread( namely musical significance of all the angas, and its corollary what is musically/rhythmically different about krithis in Adi/trisra matya/khanda jampa ) Akellaji and you all have provided some material that clarifies it to some extent.

Shankarank, I remember you observing differences in MD's rhythm vs Thyagaraja's rhythm. You also refer to that in passing and in jest above. Would you please elaborate on that? I have some inkling on what you are referring to ( about the internal laya differences of their styles ) but I don't want to guess. While you are it, please drag in SS as well.

Also, thanks for pointing out that 'beats 3 and 7 many times end up not on the same footing as M- leaving 4, 2, 2 still relevant'. First of all I am thrilled you read my post with enough attention to point that out ;) I see what you are getting at.

I see the case for 3 to be different from 7.
In your impressions, would you equate the stress on 3 in those cases to be close to 'N'?
Now the stress on 7 is interesting. '7' can not be N since it is both odd and also the beginning of an anga. If it is not M, then what is it like? A slightly less than M, or sometimes just N.
On a slightly separate question, are you also leaning towards the thinking all finger count kriyas correspond to a N type stress?

Notes:
1) For these modeling purposes, we can safely ignore those songs that glide over these stress points. We can come up with a model that has enough rigor while at the same time allowing for some optionality. If it turns out that the options are exercised by most krithis then we have to change the model !!

2) We are resorting to all this model building through reverse engineering mainly because this issue itself is quite fuzzy on the theoretical and musical front while at the same time many people seem to think that it is all defined cleanly due to the mathematical rigor of the anga structure. Without a clean correspondence of the angas to musical and rhythmical significance, the angas are just dry and vacuous. But then who am I to build such models? That is why I want people to poke holes at it and sculpt and shape it properly so it makes sense for CM.

3) I am also perfectly fine if the general consensus is, while the anga structure is all mathematically great, it is not relevant to current day CM ( except for a few things we have already discussed ). But that is not what I am hearing. Especially when I ask the question about Adi, Trisra Matya, Kanda Jampa, no one wants to say they do not matter but then say fuzzy things that all equate to 'You can tell from the flow of the song' 'If you can not sense it that is your limitation', 'such things are noticeable only after sufficient exposure', 'our pUrvAchAryAs would not have come up with all this if they are not significant' etc. Such things are not useful at all. I would like to make some progress on that by adding some rigor to that answer . Of course we can immediately provide a highly rigorous answer if there is a rigorous definition of the musical significance of all the angas. But lacking that, we are back to square 1. ( also remember, mridangists training to play for various talas do not have much to do with the anga structure. When I say this to people, it typically elicits the reaction 'What?.. really?? You have got to be kidding me'. Nope, not kidding and yep, that is true. In HM, the situation is totally different. The percussionist training is indeed based on the internal structure of the tala. So they learn to play differently two talas of the same cycle count but with different internal structures )
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Nick H
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#39 Re: Kriyas & Angas - Significance to musical & lyrical structure

Post by Nick H » 23 May 2016, 13:33

Maybe, in line with my previous post, "fuzzy" is how it should be. The tala structure is a scaffold or skeleton upon which the song is built. The song is made of flesh, and, despite the hard skeleton within, flesh is soft and pliable.

I may be wrong, but I think our own member Balaji has recently posted here that mridangists play for the total count, not the anga structure. I don't know if the conversation went further, or where to find it now, but the question occurs: if the mridangist follows the song, which they do, and if/when the song phrasing has some relationship to the anga structure, then are they not indirectly playing to the anga structure?

Although I have sat through many hundreds of concerts since I came to Chennai, I keenly feel that it is a long time since I sat in a class, or even talked of anything technical with my guruji. I offer random thoughts, and bow to to you and VK as serious researchers of these topics
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shankarank
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#40 Re: Kriyas & Angas - Significance to musical & lyrical structure

Post by shankarank » 23 May 2016, 21:36

I think the posting you did in the "question on vilamba" thread belongs here more than there. If you transfer it here - the discussion will have some continuity and easy to follow. I have a clarification on stress K - where you say 4 kaLai songs - you mean RTP pallavis?

Arudi stress A causes 7 and 3 to be different in many cases. Since Arudi is a summit both the singer and percussionist try to reach with all their muscle, the stress at 3 is compromised somewhat as the sangatIs proceed. You see there is more euphoria in the pUrvAnga and more softening on the uttarAnga. The pause at the Arudi ( even if the landing is pre-beat - with a suggestive stress at A) causes a recovery (anchoring) stress to be built at position 7 after which the intention shifts to reaching the samam (if eduppu is at samam) or the off beat eduppu. They must have needed to distinguish pUrvangA and uttarAnga for so many reasons like this beyond just the convenience of counting 8. Well even if say we start with argument that it is a counting convenience to count 8 - we need to then ask ourselves why do we need to count 8 in the first place? why not count just 4 always - like catuSra Ekam? The answer to that itself comes from a need to have a pUrvanga / uttarAnga distinction - where the distinction is in terms of melodic approach as well rhythmic pause/stress.

This is not to say that this was designed intentionally like that to begin with. Things more likely evolved with people trying things - and the grammar solidified on top of it later on - as with every thing else. Grammar itself is a quest from some orderliness - a sanskriti or refinement - which in fact removes the need for rehearsals and notations - with percussionist able to anticipate things. sAdhana then provides for transcending it ( liberating from the constraints - once conviction is built ) with grammar as the starting point.
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vasanthakokilam
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#41 Re: Kriyas & Angas - Significance to musical & lyrical structure

Post by vasanthakokilam » 23 May 2016, 22:59

Shankaran, yes, when I wrote '4 kaLai song' I had in mind an RTP. At the model level I am assuming what applies to RTP should apply to compositions as well.

What you say makes sense about the basic first level internal split in Adi . I agree with you on the point why we need Adi when we have Chatusra Ekam. In fact, we can also ask the question, why do we need Chatusra Ekam, isn't enough to have a two beat tala with out loss of generality? The answer is the same, Our songs exhibit that purvanga/uttaranga type divisions in their internal and inherent laya and to properly capture that in a tala definition we need some fairly equivalent powerful and sophisticated internal tala structure. This makes a lot of sense and in fact makes the whole codified rhythmic foundation that much more interesting.

The purvanga/uttaranga nature of songs answers cleanly one special case of the fundamental question we are after (namely, what is the musical significance of an internal structure of a tala).

So the topic of this thread can be stated in a different but equivalent way. We all understand the musical significance of binary splits of a tala, what about the musical significance of more complex splits? (the anga structure)

That is, while that internal structure is perfectly justifiable for Adi, how about the other end, some really long Druva talas? That is when the musical significance of the internal anga structure of a tala becomes interesting. It is so tempting to speculate that there are indeed musical significances to such more complex splits.

( as a side bar, while drutam seems to be easy to attach some musical significance, the laghu is more difficult. The internal structure of the laghu itself is simple, One heavy emphasis followed by N not so heavy emphasis. But songs do not seem to follow that kind of simple emphasis structure when they are in the laghu. They have a lot more stress differences than what a laghu codifies. )

Shankarank, you have now advanced a hypothesis of going one level below the binary split of Adi by examining a further musically significant division of the uttaranga. That is great. To test that hypothesis on the nature of the stress on beat 7, we need to look at how, say an RTP in Kanda Jampa tala, will be structured. The drutam that follows the Arudi is only one beat away and not two beats as in Adi. I would think the recovery you speak of will be different (has to be). Then the musical significance of different ways of splitting the same '8' is really shaping up well. If that works, may be we can extend this further for longer talas with more involved divisions. I think there is already an established practice for singing the 14 count Kanda Ata tala as to where the arudi is ( sometimes dual arudi ).

I think you are right that post from http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic ... 97#p300497
belongs here. I will copy and paste that posting below.
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vasanthakokilam
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#42 Re: Kriyas & Angas - Significance to musical & lyrical structure

Post by vasanthakokilam » 23 May 2016, 23:37

Copied from http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic ... 97#p300497

===========================================================

Words like 'flow', 'kAlam', 'kaLai, 'speed', 'naDai' etc need to be given a more formal footing.

To do that, we need to recognize one laya aspect which exists in CM songs but we do not formally talk about them.

The songs have inherent stresses in them ( this is not a revelation ) and there are different kinds of stresses ( this is the aspect that is not formally talked about much ).

There are at least the following types of stresses. In specific songs, not all of them will be present and even when they are present initially to define the laya structure they need not be present as the song progresses.

1. Major Stress - M ( typically aligned with the odd numbered beats of the thala like 1, 3, 5, 7 of Adi)
2. Minor Stress - N ( typically aligned with the even numbered beats of the thala like 2, 4, 6, 8 of Adi)
3. Major-Minor intermediate stress - K ( the emphasis is somewhere between the major and minor and they are typically aligned with the second tap of 2 kaLai songs. or 2, 3 or 4th tap of 4 Kalai songs )
4. Arudi stress - A ( this is a heavy emphasis somewhere in the middle of the thala. Like in Adi, it is the 5th beat )
5. speed or nadai stresses - S ( these are the stresses in between M and A stresses or between M and K and K and N. Chatusra will have up to 2 or 4 stresses per such interval, trisra will have upto 3 stresses etc. )

To be precise, these are found in the song itself irrespective of whether they are reckoned with any tala kriya or not. You take a song with such patterns of stresses and align it with an appropriate tala (which acts as the ruler of sorts ). The fact the composer may have started with a tala in mind is immaterial for this exercise. The analogy is, say you have a sari which has periodic patterns that are largely spaced, medium spaced, small spaced and micro spaced etc. They have different weaving patterns. Those are like the inherent stresses of the song. Now you apply a ruler to it and then declare that these follow some 8 foot rule or 3 foot rule or 3 inch rule or whatever. That is the equivalent of the tala. The saree with its patterns exist whether you bring out the ruler or not.

In CM the interval between stresses of kinds ( M, N, K, A ) are typically kept constant ( though there are exceptions ). On the other hand, stresses of the S kind are varied quite liberally and that is what makes a song a song. Like one interval between M and N may have 2 equally spaced S stresses, another one may have 4 and another one may have 8, another one will omit some stresses. Some of them will divide the M and N interval into three S stresses, five S stresses etc. ( those are the Nadai ones ).

Also not all stresses need to be present at all sections of the song. Typically the composer will have those exhibited in the initial sections so everyone understand the laya infrastructure of the song. After that many of these stresses can be skipped, and they often are. Again that is all part of the laya work that is inherent in the song.

There may be other emphases in the song but let us consider the above 5 ones as good enough for now.

If we buy into this framework, then it may be possible to clearly define what songs are suitable to be sung in slow tempo, medium tempo or fast tempo while granting that any song can be sung in any tempo theoretically. Here, as a working definition, tempo is defined as the number of 'M' stresses per minute in the song. I am not sure I am qualified to completely define all the aspects like Flow, kaLai, Vilambit, Madhyma etc and I would like the readers of this thread to take a shot at that.

Just as examples, it seems to me that a clearly heard/felt distinction of 'M', 'K' and 'N' type stresses are needed for a song to be considered a 2 kaLai song. Typically 'A' will be there to anchor the song and in many cases provide the overall laya balance.

If K is not present but M, N and A are there but not much of an 'S' type stress. then it makes more sense to sing them in medium or fast tempo. Remember words have natural splits and they need to be aligned with the musical emphasis. If all we have are 'M' and 'N' ( and possibly A ), then there is not much scope for elongating a Vowel or Anuswaram while providing 'S' stresses during those elongations.

If you have strong built in M, N and S, then they have good scope for slow rendition. Of course add A and K, for a very elaborate slow rendition song.

Please see if the above model makes sense.
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#43 Re: Kriyas & Angas - Significance to musical & lyrical structure

Post by shankarank » 07 Jun 2016, 21:38

I want to turn the focus on some recent tunings - and think about this with examples :

7:10 min into this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q44dd1_On8U the koNdal vaNNanai by tiruppazhanazhvAr may result in a better grippy composition if done in miSra cApu instead of tiSra-tripuTA. I feel more Anchoring leads to more flexibility instead of a stretching that is artificial.
I have not worked out beyond the first few lines however, on how that could be done. The first line demands that the eduppu is 4 mAtras from samam ( in a 14 mAtra reckoning of one cycle of miSra cApu).

I am drawing upon some insights provided by Vid. MSN Murty and Vidushi Pantula Rama here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94SIWrfXMvQ - taken from their review thread: http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic ... 13&t=27529

Will post some comments regarding that as well.
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shankarank
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#44 Re: Kriyas & Angas - Significance to musical & lyrical structure

Post by shankarank » 08 Jun 2016, 11:04

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94SIWrfXMvQ @26:45 min

In nagumomu galavani - for sItA rAghavuni they aligned it to beats for rAghavuni for the fear of stress splitting the words given that sItA is dIrgham - that is nice. nanucu bhAskaruni - has bha occuring pre- beat giving that beat overlay subtling. The kanDam gives ability to do a heady walk/dance if one wishes around the beats - like the triloka mAta nannu in miSram :).
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#45 Re: Kriyas & Angas - Significance to musical & lyrical structure

Post by shankarank » 16 Dec 2017, 05:27

I initiate coverage on this topic ( stock analyst lingo!) with that one:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=30155&p=326532#p326532
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