Talanga Movements

Tālam & Layam related topics
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SrinathK
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#1 Talanga Movements

Post by SrinathK » 13 Sep 2015, 11:20

The first three are well known and I'm stating the obvious but still I'll say it anyway --

1) Anudhrutam is just a downbeat. Total count = 1
2) Dhrutam is a downbeat and then you turn the palm upside down. Total count = 2
3) Laghu is a beat followed by finger counts starting from the little finger onwards -- how many fingers depends on the jaathi. Therefore
3.a) For tisra jaathi laghu -- one beat + little finger + ring finger. Total count = 3
3.b) For chatushra jaathi laghu - one beat + little finger + ring finger + middle finger. Total count = 4
3.c) For khanDa jaathi laghu - one beat + .... + index finger. Total count = 5
3.d) For mishra jaathi laghu - one beat + .... + thumb + little finger again. Total count = 7
3.c) For sankeerNa jaathi laghu - one beat + .... + little finger again + ring finger + middle finger. Total count = 9

Now I would like it very much if someone can share me the exact sequence of movements for
1) Guru
2) Plutam
3) Kakapadam

I have heard two styles of rendering the guru -- the one with the finger counts and the one with the closed fist (aka the hand grinder) -- and I am familiar with the second one. It's one beat followed by 7 downbeats along a circle with the closed fist -- the total count of this anga is directly proportional to the jaathi and it is always = 2x laghu

Plutam I believe is -- 1 silent downbeat and 3 finger counts + 1 wave to the left and 3 finger counts + 1 wave to the right and 3 finger counts (in Chatushra Jaathi) -- finger counts follow the same logic as that for laghu. A plutam total count is = 3x laghu

Kakapadam as I have seen it in a Simhanandana lec-dem is -- 1 silent downbeat and 3 finger counts + 1 wave upwards (hand raised) and 3 finger counts + 1 wave to the left and 3 finger counts and 1 wave to the right and 3 finger counts (Chatushra Jaathi). Finger counts follow the same logic as that for laghu. The kakapadam total count is = 4x laghu

Can someone confirm?
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SrinathK
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#2 Re: Talanga Movements

Post by SrinathK » 16 Sep 2015, 21:58

A little help would be most welcome. My only visual reference is Vinay Sharva's (incredible) performance of a pallavi in the Simhanandana tala, which uses the last 3 talangas :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71Kz8i0DkHk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6gJGPcGy1k
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SrinathK
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#3 Re: Talanga Movements

Post by SrinathK » 20 Sep 2015, 22:32

Ok at least tell me about a) the guru -- is it the way of the open palm or the way of the closed fist?

and b) The kakapadam -- is it down, up, left, right as in the video, or is it left, right, up and down?
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vasanthakokilam
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#4 Re: Talanga Movements

Post by vasanthakokilam » 21 Sep 2015, 03:49

Dabblers step in when experts don't.

You have probably seen this already but just in case not,

http://www.music-dictionary.org/guru
"Guru: beat and a circling movement of the right hand with closed fingers in the clockwise direction. Duration of the anga is eight aksharakalas."

http://www.music-dictionary.org/plutam
"Plutam: a beat, a Krushya and a Sarpini"

http://www.music-dictionary.org/Kakapadam
"kakapadam: beat, patakam , krushya and sarpini "
patakam is raising the hand, krushya is waving to the left, sarpini is waving from left to right
It seems to be your option b above

Duration ratios seem to be Guru:Plutam:kakapadam = 2:3:4
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SrinathK
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#5 Re: Talanga Movements

Post by SrinathK » 21 Sep 2015, 07:57

@vk, I've also seen a guru defined as a Laghu + Patitam -- hence the way of the open palm. The beat + 7 closed fists in a circle (a.k.a the grinder) is another version.

And a kakapadam I have seen rendered as krshya, sarpini, patakam and patitam (Left, right, up and down positions). But I have also read another definition of it which is almost the reverse -- patakam, patitam, krshya, sarpini.

Unfortunately in reviews of lec dems or concerts featuring these rare talas that use these angas, the reviewers have not bothered to mentioned these details properly -- which yet again reinforces my theory that apart from the song list, reviews are of limited use to music students.

These definitions have been given on other threads in our forum too. Here's the best link :

http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2539

By the way @vk, do make the above link sticky.

I assume then, that owing to the rarity of these talangas and lack of information, different schools just did things differently and it has become accepted.

On a side note, I really think we can simplify the symbols for those angas.

Anudhrutam = A
Dhrutam = D
Laghu = L
Guru = G
Plutam = P
Kakapadam = K
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