What is the thala for vande maataram in desh raga

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shanthi.sa
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#1 What is the thala for vande maataram in desh raga

Post by shanthi.sa »

Can someone please tell the national song vande maataram in desh raga is sung in which tala? I tried eka and aadhi thalam. it does not match.
If you can say should I leave a beat and start or so also it would be helpful. Just to clarify I am talking about vande maataram sujalam suphalam...

Thanks & Regards

Sachi_R
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#2 Re: What is the thala for vande maataram in desh raga

Post by Sachi_R »

To my simple mind, it is 4 beat eka tala🙂

SrinathK
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#3 Re: What is the thala for vande maataram in desh raga

Post by SrinathK »

Nope. This is way more complex than it looks. Fascinatingly, vandE mAtaram, in it's most popular tune in dEsh actually runs on a 15 beat meter, as 7+8 for the first part, and an 11 beat meter, as 4+7 for the 2nd part (shubhra jyOtsnA). The last line of each part (shasya shyAmalAm and sukhadAm varadAm) before going back to vande mAtaram is on an 8 beat meter.

To be clear, the number of beats on each line are
7 - vandE mataram
8 - sujalAm suphalAm
7 - malayaja sheetalAm
8 - shasya shyAmalAm
7 - vandE mAtaram
4 - shubra jyOtsna
7 - pulakitayAmineem
4 - phullaku sumita
7 - drumadala shObhineem
4 - suhAseneem
7 - sumadhura bhAshineem
8 - sukhadAm varadAm
7 - vandE mAtaram

This is poetry, set to meter (chanda), not tAla. By which I mean the tune we sing goes as per this variable beat pattern, not actually in any particular tAla.

The original song has 4 more stanzas that no one sings now - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vande_Mataram
Last edited by SrinathK on 07 Nov 2019, 15:26, edited 2 times in total.

Sachi_R
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#4 Re: What is the thala for vande maataram in desh raga

Post by Sachi_R »

I am with you that it is originally poetry. I will look at the Chandas and come back.
But I think the music (Tagore?) has been set to a very basic 4 beat cycle. Can't imagine tala changes from stanza to stanza. Of course my knowledge is very meagre 😄

SrinathK
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#5 Re: What is the thala for vande maataram in desh raga

Post by SrinathK »

No I am describing the actual tune of the song itself - the universal version in dEsh. It is set to that variable beat pattern, but not actually to any particular tala as such.

vasanthakokilam
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#6 Re: What is the thala for vande maataram in desh raga

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Srinath, this version https://youtu.be/WfqMmypbACg. seems to follow a 4 beat pattern. May be they extended the 7 counts to 8 and normalized it?

SrinathK
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#7 Re: What is the thala for vande maataram in desh raga

Post by SrinathK »

Yes, this one is definitely in a 4 beat pattern. It sounds the same, but I can tell they've sung it a bit faster and regularized the gaps to 8 beats. They've also regularized the 2nd part to 12 beats. I guess the version I heard was differerent - it didn't have a rhythm accompanying it.

So that was it. I got waylaid by a version that wasn't stretching every line end to 4 beats. :lol: :oops:

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