Idiot's Guide to when to pick the song back after the thani

Tālam & Layam related topics
vasanthakokilam
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#51

Post by vasanthakokilam » 12 Aug 2009, 11:00

Vijayakumar: You are quite right in your observation. You should also check out the excellent posts on Korvai by member Sri. Balaji . http://rasikas.org/forum/viewtopic.php? ... thani.html .

He is a professional mridangam artist and he always spares time for us by answering questions in detail and contributing on matters related to music.

And msakellaji's writings in this forum on matters related to thala and matters related to teaching of music are invaluable.
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Vijayakumar
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#52

Post by Vijayakumar » 12 Aug 2009, 19:07

@Vasanthakokilam
I am going through those material as well and they are indeed quite useful. thanks to R Balaji for his excellent inputs.
Last edited by Vijayakumar on 12 Aug 2009, 19:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Yazh
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#53

Post by Yazh » 26 Nov 2009, 07:04

Anything new?
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veeyens3
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#54 Re: Idiot's Guide to when to pick the song back after the th

Post by veeyens3 » 30 Jan 2011, 06:02

Pardon the digression. This anecdote is about an incident in the 50s. The accompanying percussion were endowed luxuriant hair hen they came and sat on the dais in their respective places, their tufts were nicely secured as knots and were hanging like short pendulams from their napes.The concert passed through the usual phases and came to Thani stage.Then a rasika, sitting in front of me on the floor, asked his companion as while their playing appeared to be different, it appeared that they were playing the same e syllables when playing together and how the vocalist and the voilonist know when to join them. What is the chemistry between them and was there any earlier rehearsal.As the subject intrigued me (even now it is no better) I eagerly kept my ears sharp for the clarification from the “expert” He said no problem. You watch the tufts, the moment they unfurl and flay like “virittha chenjadayada” all the four play together.Believe me, this idiot thought that was true.
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vasanthakokilam
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#55 Re: Idiot's Guide to when to pick the song back after the th

Post by vasanthakokilam » 30 Jan 2011, 06:19

veeyens, that is quite funny.
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veeyens3
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#56 Re: Idiot's Guide to when to pick the song back after the th

Post by veeyens3 » 31 Jan 2011, 22:29

Like Rip Van Winkle. I recently came across this thread and could not resist the temptation to throw a spanner into an otherwise calm peaceful excercise

Sense of laya is an inborn instinct and cannot be injected to anybody. You can easily identify if a person has laya in him If he has that gift, he will see a rhythm or pattern even in mundane things You can easily see how most of the people of the carrebians exhibit their gift in the gait they walk. I want to recapture an incident which happened half a century back.In those days broad gauge railway track was laid with 40 ft. rails. To cater for expansion and contraction depending upon the temperature, the rails were joined with a little gap in between them. Resulting in a noise like tick developing every time the carriage wheel passes over them. A coach is mounted over two short wheel based trucks called bogie on either ends, Thus when a coach passes over a section it will produce two quick tick tick sound as one bogie passes over one joint and after an interval two more tick ticks will be producd. Imagine sitting in a compartment on a running train.As the rear bogie of the previous coach passes over a joint, you will hear a faint click, then after a short interval a strong tick tick will be heard, then after a longer interval another strong tick tick will be heard as the rear bogie of your coach passes over the joint followed by a short interval faint tick tick , as the front bogie of the coach next to yours passes over the joint If the train travels at a constant speed-you will hear tick tick -TICK---TICK-tick , be repeated.the For a non laya perrson it is nothing more than monotonous noise, the thavil player of a nathaswaram party travelling in the same compartment saw a regular tala pattern in it and promptly started an impromptu teaching session to the young boy who usually keeps thalaam with cymbals in a concert. As the train passed over joints and crossings, the pattern was disturbed annoying the thavil player. Just as a bhaktha sees divinity in everything, a person blessed with inbuilt layam sees thalam in everything, and bye the bye, he will have no diffculty in anticipating the end of the thani session May Sri Rama bless you all
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raghavt
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#57 Re: Idiot's Guide to when to pick the song back after the th

Post by raghavt » 14 Jun 2011, 21:26

A person who has never learnt any Karnatak Percussion Instrument can easily recognize the end of a tani if he has good amount of experience in attending concerts. It can be correlated to some people recognizing rAgam who have not been trained in classical music formally. How? we can say 'KelviGnAnam'. They may not necessarily know the defnition of that rAgam, still they can identify it. Similarly, the long mora patterns can be recognized by a seasoned listner. I think that is the only point where he can expect that yes, after a couple of minutes, the tani is going to end. He may not recognize the end of the mora and starting of the korvai. Thanks
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Nick H
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#58 Re: Idiot's Guide to when to pick the song back after the th

Post by Nick H » 14 Jun 2011, 21:53

Yes, I agree --- although I miss it sometimes. The long mohara always follows the same form. Even though I can only recite the adi talam mohara, I can still recognise it in other talams. It is not so hard.
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srikant1987
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#59 Re: Idiot's Guide to when to pick the song back after the th

Post by srikant1987 » 15 Jun 2011, 09:47

But I think it's about the exact split-second when the song is to be begun. Otherwise the melodic instrumentalist is always there to guide us (even in veena / gOTTuvAdyam solo / nAdaswaram concerts). ;)
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mohan
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#60 Re: Idiot's Guide to when to pick the song back after the th

Post by mohan » 15 Jun 2011, 10:01

As others have mentioned the song will recommence after the mohara (which is generally a standard pattern) and korvai (which is repeated three times). The problem usually is in recognising the korvai. If you are putting talam, the song will recommence at the eddupu, so that will be a guide. Usually each of the three parts of the korvai will finish on the eduppu but at times each may finish a different point in the tala.
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srikant1987
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#61 Re: Idiot's Guide to when to pick the song back after the th

Post by srikant1987 » 15 Jun 2011, 12:09

The problem usually is in recognising the korvai. If you are putting talam, the song will recommence at the eddupu,
If you can put talam correctly through the tani, you probably can recognise korvais. ;)

Putting tALam "correctly" through tanis doesn't take as much nuclear-clock precision as it takes an intuitive understanding of the commonly-employed ways to play with rhythm. =)
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Nick H
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#62 Re: Idiot's Guide to when to pick the song back after the th

Post by Nick H » 15 Jun 2011, 13:06

... then I never achieved either!

It is very difficult to actually hold onto the beat through complex syncopation. Musicians take it for granted that they can do it; many rasikas have accomplished it either by having been music students to sufficient level or by simple practice.

However, to know that the korvais will always end with some variation of Tha Dhi Gi Na Thom (you can call it 1 2 3 4 5 if you don't feel comfortable with the language, although I am sure most rasikas are) repeated three times, and that the whole korvais will be repeated three times is not so tough. In fact, further explanation would make it seem more complex than it actually is in practice!
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vasanthakokilam
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#63 Re: Idiot's Guide to when to pick the song back after the th

Post by vasanthakokilam » 16 Jun 2011, 12:45

>and that the whole korvais will be repeated three times is not so tough.

Right. Most people can use a bit of hand-holding about that cue but not too difficult.

Similar such '3' patterns are employed by the main artist with their own kOrvai during kalpanaswarams. That is easier to relate to and can help in detecting similar patterns in the thani.
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Nick H
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#64 Re: Idiot's Guide to when to pick the song back after the th

Post by Nick H » 16 Jun 2011, 13:27

Yes, exactly. If it is employed, the ending of the final swara, at least, will be a korvais.

Sometimes mridangists echo this same pattern in their tani. However, the final tani korvais can be anything from short and simple to long and very complex.
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vasanthakokilam
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#65 Re: Idiot's Guide to when to pick the song back after the th

Post by vasanthakokilam » 15 Sep 2013, 20:49

I think this video of the thani with the mridangist uttering the sollus is a good companion material to understanding mridangamkid's detailed description of the ending korvai of the thani. It is great to listen to in general as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-3uxg_FW5s
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minisantu
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#66 Re:

Post by minisantu » 18 Apr 2016, 19:26

[quote="vasanthakokilam"]First level answer is, when the violinist picks up the bow. But then how does the violinist know? The mridangist raises the eyebrows three times to indicate the end ;) Just kidding..

Lol! Loved your humor :)
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