"New and Improved" Chitravenu :)

Ideas and innovations in Indian classical music
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uday_shankar
Posts: 1467
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:37

"New and Improved" Chitravenu :)

Post by uday_shankar »

An assemblage small video clips taken recently by a friend on his iPad pro:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtJGFuOKIm4

Recommend using headphones to listen.

And then, an updated and cleaned up website:

http://www.chitravenu.com

anandmurty
Posts: 32
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:03

Re: "New and Improved" Chitravenu :)

Post by anandmurty »

My word! This is really impressive. Absolutely loved the Keeravani tanam in particular because the wind instrument and the strings together provide new dimensions to listening.
I guess you modify the zither - reminds me of the swaramandal - for each raga? Stunning stuff.

uday_shankar
Posts: 1467
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:37

Re: "New and Improved" Chitravenu :)

Post by uday_shankar »

anandmurty wrote:I guess you modify the zither - reminds me of the swaramandal - for each raga?
Yes! It is indeed a modified 30-stringed swarmandal. I played around with the string gauges as well as grouped the first four strings to three groups of 4 each, to be used as chords. The rest of the strings, 18 in number, are tuned to the scale of Kiravani and are used to playing the concurrent melodies (either the same, or other harmonies/melharmonies). Unfortunately only small snippets of video were made which I strung together here. I will have professional quality, longer, videos made sometime soon ! I have an even more exciting, sonorous, string box which I will integrate in the next few months (I am still playing with the string gauges and other ergonomics). The new string box also has guitar type tuning keys, rather than these tedious tuning pegs.

You're right, each raga needs separate tunings, both for the chords and of course the scale. For this keeravani, the chords are as follows (the shruti or tonic is the F key or 4 kattais):

1. F - Minor
2. A# - Minor (i.e., the minor fourth)
3. C - Major (i.e., the major fifth)

For a raga like Kamboji, Khamach, etc... the chords could be:

1. F - Major
2. A# - Major
3. C - Minor

i.e., in each case the chords do not violate the scale of the parent raga. For some ragas, the chords may violate the norms of classical chord structures. For example I tune Ahir Bhairav as follows:

1. F - Major
2. A# - minor
3. A modified "C - minor" without the fifth

I am still playing around having fun...hopefully I will codify it as a "shastra" in due course !

Thanks for your kind words...the instrument is largely irrelevant to mainstream Carnatic music.

SrinathK
Posts: 2477
Joined: 13 Jan 2013, 16:10

Re: "New and Improved" Chitravenu :)

Post by SrinathK »

We must have a chitraveena - violin - chitravenu concert in the future. The trio of fretless instruments.

Specifically, what improvements did you make to the flute part of the chitravenu and what is the range of the instrument?

uday_shankar
Posts: 1467
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:37

Re: "New and Improved" Chitravenu :)

Post by uday_shankar »

SrinathK wrote:We must have a chitraveena - violin - chitravenu concert in the future. The trio of fretless instruments. Specifically, what improvements did you make to the flute part of the chitravenu and what is the range of the instrument?
It will take some time for some young person to master CM on the instrument and play with others at a professional level. The strengths and limitations of the chitravenu must be appreciated. It can be a great instrument for say, the MDR bani but perhaps much more difficult for say, the Brindamma bani, with it's extremely delicate and detailed ornamentations.

The linear pitch range is from G3 through F6, i.e., nearly three octaves. You can concurrently over-blow for a large part of this range and generate the first harmonic. That range would be from G4 through F7 minus half an octave, say G4 through C7. So the big challenge is whether to play chitravenu as a linear instrument for the entire range or whether we should use overlapping segments and use over-blowing. In chitravina, everything except shadjam downwards is played on one string (or one set of strings, at any rate). On the violin all this is true and more - we further break at the panchama and continue on the next string. Each of these "breaks" involves the precise placement of the kattai (chitravina) or the fingers (violin) at dramatically different pre-ordained "cherry picked" physical points on the instrument that has to be rapidly and precisely executed. In the chitravenu, only linear backward and forward movement is possible. It is very unwieldy to pick up the slide and put it at a different spot, although I gave that possibility a serious consideration (an acoustic instrument must also be simple, not some space-age gizmo). Therefore, "shifting" the starting point to the "next string", or in this case, the over-blown octave involves actually sliding very quickly to a new starting point and continuing the melody. Not an optimal solution. In western music, the trombone has continuous range of less than one octave, along which there are many "stops", with different notes at each stop for several over-blowing intensities. Trombone parts are written keeping these characteristics of the instrument in mind. Large back and forth jumps are very hard, sequential melodies are easier. Ditto chitravenu. Therefore, my recommended use case is a complete linear slide for the entire Carnatic range. For the F key used, that would be from mandhara sthayi R2 to Taara sthayi panchama. Beyond the taara sthayi panchama, one can go up to taara sthayi shadja by over blowing from a different starting point. Can certainly be used for alapana, etc... A you can tell, for many ranges of shrutis between C and G, we can have a complete linear range without having to break and over-blow.

As regards the improvements to the wind section, there are many subtle changes to the upper section of the bore, involving the tone, over-blowing balancing, mouthpiece design, based on empirical experiments as well as "theory" (as a rule retro-actively applied :). As engineers, we can explain anything...and when the theory fails, we can explain that also !!!!). Also, I've been working with yoga/posture experts and hence the new avatar as a player sitting on a chair.

SrinathK
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Joined: 13 Jan 2013, 16:10

Re: "New and Improved" Chitravenu :)

Post by SrinathK »

uday_shankar : The strengths and limitations of the chitravenu must be appreciated. It can be a great instrument for say, the MDR bani but perhaps much more difficult for say, the Brindamma bani, with it's extremely delicate and detailed ornamentations.
One would have said the same for the Chitraveena too or even the one finger continuous glissando of the Parur School, but here we are today. So I think in the hands of a really capable musician, it will shine.

It reminds me of what Leopold Auer once said of his student Heifetz playing Paganini in his child prodigy years at an unbelievable level --- "He doesn't even realize that it cannot be played that fast".

The recording has still not been equalled : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6ysOqkHflY

uday_shankar
Posts: 1467
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:37

Re: "New and Improved" Chitravenu :)

Post by uday_shankar »

SrinathK wrote:One would have said the same for the Chitraveena too or even the one finger continuous glissando of the Parur School, but here we are today. So I think in the hands of a really capable musician, it will shine.
Possible. This may just be my momentary "tired old man" speak :).

uday_shankar
Posts: 1467
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:37

Re: "New and Improved" Chitravenu :)

Post by uday_shankar »

And here's an audio sample that captures the spirit of the chitravenu best...will post longer, meaningful, recordings by and by:

https://soundcloud.com/uday-shankar-10/darbari-alaap

Ramasubramanian M.K
Posts: 1226
Joined: 05 May 2009, 08:33

Re: "New and Improved" Chitravenu :)

Post by Ramasubramanian M.K »

Uday: The Darbari was "pitch perfect"--tuning must have been tough let alone the playing!! You are right it is not ready yet for a full concert.

Congrats!! More power to your elbow!!!

cienu
Posts: 2387
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 11:40

Re: "New and Improved" Chitravenu :)

Post by cienu »

Uday : The slides have come out so well..
Brilliant :)

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Re: "New and Improved" Chitravenu :)

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Excellent Uday. I wish I had the time to stop by and take a look at your creation.

uday_shankar
Posts: 1467
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:37

Re: "New and Improved" Chitravenu :)

Post by uday_shankar »

Thanks, MKR, Cienu and VK...the work continues :). I will record a complete darbari (alaap, jor, jhala soon and put it up).
Ramasubramanian M.K wrote:tuning must have been tough
No :). Tuning and re-tuning 30 strings for each piece is a routine exercise for chitravenu...so certainly expertise and comfort level in tuning is a must. And not just sa-pa-sa, but entire scales across multiple octaves, as well as chords. There are 30 strings in all, and I will be expanding it to 34. There is an entire universe of research in this area....my strings are tuned by ear (using tambura and its harmonics) and relative consonances...so the chords of the chitravenu give the unique "pure" feel of the so-called "just intonation".

On another note, here's an version of a familiar Bach piece in D, trasposed to F:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-13xfusSm4

Playing the Bach piece is particularly difficult because the chitravenu is very unforgiving when you attempt to cherry pick notes that are separated by a larger physical (and musical) distance by a process of precise sliding.

ramakriya
Posts: 1876
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 02:05

Re: "New and Improved" Chitravenu :)

Post by ramakriya »

Very nice! Just subscribed to your channel so that I can listen to all the clips at leisure :)

uday_shankar
Posts: 1467
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:37

Re: "New and Improved" Chitravenu :)

Post by uday_shankar »

Ramaprasad, good to hear from you...long time ! Trust your Kannada and Sanskrit blog is going well. Are you still in California ?

Christian Kenit Ram
Posts: 78
Joined: 11 Oct 2016, 22:23

Re: "New and Improved" Chitravenu :)

Post by Christian Kenit Ram »

I found this topic by looking for reasons of the absence of a swarmandal in CM ( or some few CM singers using it ) .
I like the sound of chords and clusters in ICM , so I look forward to this kind of instruments being used for all the major carnatic ragas in the typical elaborations .

Sachi_R
Posts: 2174
Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 20:20

Re: "New and Improved" Chitravenu :)

Post by Sachi_R »

Mr. Christian Kenit Ram,
Your wish to see the Swarmandal in CM is a lofty pipe dream.
CM does not benefit from a Swarmandal because our gamaka based ragas don't sound better with a Swarmandal. Eg. Todi or Bhairavi or Purvi Kalyani... Accompanying CM on a harmonium without gamakas would give an idea. Same with Sax.

Further the CM singers are already busy with songs and swaras and tala laya vyavahara, grahabheda, complex eduppu etc. ETC.
So when they have thrown away a tambura, do you think they will adopt Swarmandal? Who will tune it?

Sachi_R
Posts: 2174
Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 20:20

Re: "New and Improved" Chitravenu :)

Post by Sachi_R »

I hasten to add Mr. UDAY shankar is an accomplished musician and a great inventor who is making a big impact with his Chitravenu. It is likely some experts will start playing a new type of music with that innovation.

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