Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Ideas and innovations in Indian classical music
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uday_shankar
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:37

Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Post by uday_shankar »

Chitravenu is granted second US patent, #9412343, also a prime number like the earlier one (8822797) :). This is for the composite sliding wind / plucked string instrument.

What's interesting, apart from the speed of the grant, less than 2 years, is the huge number of prior art citations, 59 of them, starting from the year 1862 all the way to 2014 !

Rarely, if ever, do you see patents with prior art citations from that far back !

The more numerous and farther back the prior art, the more difficult it is to navigate through one's claims of uniqueness.

http://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?PageNum=0& ... subrahmani

And here's the link to the previous grant:

http://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?PageNum=0& ... subrahmani


Meanwhile, the Indian patent office is yet to begin processing the first application from back in 2010 :(.

rajeshnat
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:04

Re: Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Post by rajeshnat »

uday_shankar wrote:
What's interesting, apart from the speed of the grant, less than 2 years, is the huge number of prior art citations, 59 of them, starting from the year 1862 all the way to 2014 !

Rarely, if ever, do you see patents with prior art citations from that far back !
(.
Congratulations Uday. With so much of backdated citations , it looks like you have meticulously taken a lot from many in the past and also created something very unique . Hope with the second citation , there is a mandolin shrinivas who is born to take up chitravenu for the masses to enjoy what you have created.

rshankar
Posts: 13754
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Re: Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Post by rshankar »

Congratulations, Uday! I assume US patents are not enforceable in India...good luck and best wishes with the crazy Indian patent office - aren't they part of the same group that dished out copyrights to Tyagaraja kRtis and the like to recording companies?

sureshvv
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Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Post by sureshvv »

Congratulations Uday! Hoping to hear it on a concert platform sometime soon.

Nick H
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Post by Nick H »

Well done, Uday. Also looking forward to a concert :)

Rsachi
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Re: Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Post by Rsachi »

http://bit.ly/Chitravenu2

http://bit.ly/Chitravenu1

Congrats, Uday! Well done! I have created these two short URLs you can remember and use easily!

vasanthakokilam
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Re: Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Congrats Uday. Awesome indeed.

It looks like the inspectors found all those prior art and still granted you uniqueness. Great indeed. I am used to applying for related technology patents and I often wondered what the inspectors even go by since things change so drastically. But I guess in the cases of musical instruments they do have a huge past set of work to refer back to.

Congrats!

uday_shankar
Posts: 1467
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:37

Re: Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Post by uday_shankar »

Thanks All ! Thanks Sachi for the shortened URL's !
vasanthakokilam wrote:It looks like the inspectors found all those prior art and still granted you uniqueness.Congrats!
My first attempt at a bold and pristine primary claim, namely

"1. A composite musical instrument consisting of a wind instrument and a string instrument."

got shot down by the patent office and I had to qualify the wind instrument as consisting of a pipe, slide, mouthpiece, etc... !

But the "string instrument" claim remains pristinely short! Not too unhappy :)

Sometime between 1862 and now others have tried to create composite instruments consisting of wind and string ensembles :).

Others have also tried to create slide instruments but this one is unique in it's separate and "external" slide. Others have tried hand held instruments so they had to couple the slide very tightly and leading to unweildy movements and improper seal.

My biggest liberating factor is that I mount the instrument. The second liberating factor for me is the "upgrade" to sitting on a chair. Posture-wise that was a huge step. Many people dissuaded me from that on the grounds that Indian music is played sitting on the floor. Frankly I don't care what music is played on it...I am attempting something avant garde.

thanjavooran
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 04:44

Re: Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Post by thanjavooran »

Shri Uday
Congratulations ! Wonderful !
Thanjavooran
04 09 2016

vasanthakokilam
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Re: Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Post by vasanthakokilam »

uday_shankar wrote:Many people dissuaded me from that on the grounds that Indian music is played sitting on the floor. Frankly I don't care what music is played on it...I am attempting something avant garde.
Awesome. I am totally with you. The primacy should be afforded to the music and the performance of it. They are eternal and audience preferences like sitting, lying, standing etc. are finicky but ephemeral. It is a pity that a lot of times such things affect the construction of musical instruments. Great you went with your convictions and stood your ground.

uday_shankar
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Re: Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Post by uday_shankar »

vasanthakokilam wrote:preferences like sitting, lying, standing etc. are finicky but ephemeral.
Indeed ! Then there is the God/Goddess factor... Images/Idols/etc... are powerful in Indian culture. So the Saraswati / Krishna images hold sway. In fact, my friend Rsachi's first suggestion in rasikas was to somehow make this look like a veena AND make it electronic, being able to switch sounds/between flute and veena :). I don't want to belittle the aesthetic power of an image, but the first consideration is the sound. Here too, the disconnect between CM theory and practice is rather unfortunate. Musicians, rasikas, musicologists, etc., waste no time getting into a swoon mentioning "nada bramham", and much time is spent discussing it (in THEORY :)). But no system of music has shown a more lackadaisical and cavalier approach to "nAda" than Carnatic music. Age old instruments are "electronified" in a heart beat without a pause and the use of an actual tambura is very sparing. Now some artistes have also started using a contact mike for the violin (!) making it sound like a weird electric clarinet. There is nothing wrong with that but an honest understanding of ourselves and our key motivations might lead to a richer musical experience. The key driving factor in Carnatic music is melodic shape - shape, shape, shape. The actual sounds making that melodic shape - the timber, the richness, the quality, the "feel", the loudness (louder the better) are a distant secondary consideration, usually requiring no more than lip service. That is why we have a superb Carnatic artiste, perhaps one of the greatest in history, (electric) Mandolin Shrinivas, someone who I have enjoyed immensely, playing a rather crappy sounding instrument (by any aesthetic consideration of sound/nAda/etc.). Sound doesn't matter.
vasanthakokilam wrote:It is a pity that a lot of times such things affect the construction of musical instruments.
True but player comfort and long term side effects ergonomics is a very serious consideration. A yOga specialist was the one who enlightened me on the use of a chair... any posture will have long term negative effects on the back, arm, etc... For traditional instruments, these difficulties have worked themselves out through historical trial and error.

rajeshnat
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Re: Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Post by rajeshnat »

Uday
Are you coming up with different sizes one for kids(upto age 15 or so) and one for adults .

Rsachi
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Joined: 31 Aug 2009, 13:54

Re: Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Post by Rsachi »

Uday,
I confess it took some time for me to understand how your chitravenu works.
I think it is wonderful you have kept the instrument all natural sound. Also the addition of the string portion is brilliant.
I still believe posture and eye contact with the audience is a big differentiator until some maestro takes our attention to the pure wind tonal quality without singing

Endaro Mahanubhavulu...

arasi
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Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Post by arasi »

Uday,

inda invention-ukku
convention uNDu,
classicism-um uNDu--
gavanam pala kAlam
jIvanamEyAgi, kaN
vizithu uruvAkkiya
pudumaip poruLumidu!

It lacks not convention
Classicism's part of it--
With such care for years,
Giving it your very life--
You created something new :)

Ramasubramanian M.K
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Joined: 05 May 2009, 08:33

Re: Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Post by Ramasubramanian M.K »

Udhay: Congratulations!! Hats off to your tenacity!! GNSir used to say 'TRIFLES MAY LEAD TO PERFECTION BUT PERFECTION ITSELF IS NEVER A TRIFLE!! Now we need "adopters" to popularize it!!!

Good Luck in your endeavors? Where are U now? If in the US please contact me!!!
Regards.

uday_shankar
Posts: 1467
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:37

Re: Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Post by uday_shankar »

Thanks Arasi ! Maybe I will put that one on my website with your permission ? :)

MKR sir, Thanks ! Am back in states for a couple weeks. Will call you this week !!

MaheshS
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Re: Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Post by MaheshS »

Ramasubramanian M.K wrote:Udhay: Congratulations!! Hats off to your tenacity!! GNSir used to say 'TRIFLES MAY LEAD TO PERFECTION BUT PERFECTION ITSELF IS NEVER A TRIFLE!!
Trifles make perfection, and perfection is no trifle - Michelangelo.

Ramasubramanian M.K
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Joined: 05 May 2009, 08:33

Re: Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Post by Ramasubramanian M.K »

Mahesh: Thanks for the correction!!!

uday_shankar
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:37

Re: Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Post by uday_shankar »

Some excerpts from my chitravenu demo/performance at the World Flutes Festival in Mendoza, Argentina Sept. 24th:

(NOTE: not CM...just my idea of how to "fuse" HM with Western music :))

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvMT49DSLcE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t3RpGn-OQQ

uday_shankar
Posts: 1467
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:37

Re: Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Post by uday_shankar »

Some chitravenu reporting in The Hindu... Interviewed after a small concert I presented on Dec. 30th with Tabla Sundar:
http://www.thehindu.com/entertainment/m ... 352922.ece

Nick H
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Post by Nick H »

Nice article, with a great picture of Uday and the ever-evolving instrument.

I'm sorry I didn't attend the concert.

Sivaramakrishnan
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Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 08:29

Re: Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Post by Sivaramakrishnan »

Uday,
I couldn't make it to Spaces for your presentation. Am sorry for that. But from what has been reported and talked about, I am able to figure out that it was very good. Congrats!

From the picture, I infer that the 'basic' instrument which I saw/listened to at your residence a few years back, has taken a ' VISWAROOPAM' with additional features. Probably the rendition too! Before you return, you must organise another event. There must be space and time for good music always!

uday_shankar
Posts: 1467
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:37

Re: Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Post by uday_shankar »

Thanks Nick, Sivaramakrishnan.

Sivaramakrishnan, I think the instrument is stabilizing and I don't expect any drastic change in it's form :). Definitely crazy and out there. Will keep you posted ... I've agreed to perform at Mat. Science along with a discuasion/ presentation on the "science and math" stuff behind the design etc... No dates yet since my travel plans are so vague... But soon !!!

Nick H
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Re: Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Post by Nick H »

discuasion
Nice typo! Thus are new words born :)

But... is it persuading people by discussion, or or dissuading people by persuasion? ;) :lol:

Sivaramakrishnan
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Re: Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Post by Sivaramakrishnan »

Thanks Uday.
But give at least 2-3 days notice.

uday_shankar
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:37

Re: Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Post by uday_shankar »

Here's Malayalam newspaper Mathrubhumi's video report with a short clip (thanks mahavishnu for the alert :)):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2AaPD8oo4M

Ranganayaki
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Re: Chitravenu receives second US patent in record time

Post by Ranganayaki »

Congratulations, Uday.. The last time I saw a video of the ChitraVenu (Cleveland a few years ago), it was a sliding flute. I haven't been following it's transformation. Does a plain sliding flute still exist? Or am I misunderstanding it?

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