In honor of varalakshmI vratam
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We used to have a practice of musically celebrating various pUjAs:
Well, today is varalakshmI vratam celebrated by many, but not all.
So, here are a few compositions that I think are addressed to divine mother as varalakshmi:
Starting with the one of my favorites: MSS rendering srI varalakshmI of MD:
http://rapidshare.de/files/28198653/2-0 ... m.m4a.html
The next is the dulcet tones of MLV singing varalakshmI namOstutE of MV in gowrimanOhari:
http://rapidshare.de/files/28199164/08_ ... 1.m4a.html
The next couple are grand compositions of the Royal Composer of Mysore Jayachamarajendra Odeyar - they were discussed very exhaustively by DRS:
http://rapidshare.de/files/28199484/01_ ... I.m4a.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/28200075/pAh ... a.mp3.html
Please share other pieces to celebrate this vratam musically.
Ravi
Well, today is varalakshmI vratam celebrated by many, but not all.
So, here are a few compositions that I think are addressed to divine mother as varalakshmi:
Starting with the one of my favorites: MSS rendering srI varalakshmI of MD:
http://rapidshare.de/files/28198653/2-0 ... m.m4a.html
The next is the dulcet tones of MLV singing varalakshmI namOstutE of MV in gowrimanOhari:
http://rapidshare.de/files/28199164/08_ ... 1.m4a.html
The next couple are grand compositions of the Royal Composer of Mysore Jayachamarajendra Odeyar - they were discussed very exhaustively by DRS:
http://rapidshare.de/files/28199484/01_ ... I.m4a.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/28200075/pAh ... a.mp3.html
Please share other pieces to celebrate this vratam musically.
Ravi
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Wonderful revival Shankar!
Indeed we used to celebrate all festivals musically until some **** threw a spanner in our rasika community. Now let us revive the tradition and pay our homage to the deities as well as our great musicians. Of course we have to be cautious about what we post. Pl post stotras as well so that we may relish the 'bhakti' spirit immanent in CM! Also share purana stories as well as anecdotes relating to the festivals too! VaralakShmi vratam primarily evolved from Andhra though celebrated all over the south. Can we have from our Telugu folks the origin as well as the way it is traditionally celebrated therein? Is it true that it is a tradition passed on in the family through the women and that it pasees unbroken through the generations ?
Thanks again!
Indeed we used to celebrate all festivals musically until some **** threw a spanner in our rasika community. Now let us revive the tradition and pay our homage to the deities as well as our great musicians. Of course we have to be cautious about what we post. Pl post stotras as well so that we may relish the 'bhakti' spirit immanent in CM! Also share purana stories as well as anecdotes relating to the festivals too! VaralakShmi vratam primarily evolved from Andhra though celebrated all over the south. Can we have from our Telugu folks the origin as well as the way it is traditionally celebrated therein? Is it true that it is a tradition passed on in the family through the women and that it pasees unbroken through the generations ?
Thanks again!
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That is not quite correct Ravi. MD does treat the dEvis as one and the same in many kRtis.rshankar wrote:BTW, I am sure everyone reallizes that the Maharaja in his usual fashion treats durgA lakshmI saraswatI (malai magaL, alai magaL, and kalai magaL) interchangeably unlike MD and MV...
Ravi
For e.g
gItavAdyavinOdinIm girijAm tAm indirAm in hiraNmayIm lakSmIm, rAga lalita.
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Even though I agree that Saraswati/Gouri/Lakshmi have been treated as one in many musical compositions,drshrikaanth wrote:That is not quite correct Ravi. MD does treat the dEvis as one and the same in many kRtis.rshankar wrote:BTW, I am sure everyone reallizes that the Maharaja in his usual fashion treats durgA lakshmI saraswatI (malai magaL, alai magaL, and kalai magaL) interchangeably unlike MD and MV...
Ravi
For e.g
gItavAdyavinOdinIm girijAm tAm indirAm in hiraNmayIm lakSmIm, rAga lalita.
for the charaNa line in hiraNmayIm there is a paThantara as girijAptAm indirAm
p.s: Feels very good to be back in the forum!
-Ramakriya
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Ended the post too soon -
I have heard the line sung as follows - and I thought it made perfect sense - since it calls
Lakshmi as one who is dear to girijA, rather than Lakshmi being the daugher of giri.
gIta vAdyavinOdinIm girijAptAm indirAm
Haven't checked references though.
-Ramakriya
p.s: BTW, I am not able to bold the lines in spite of using the tags. Why?
I have heard the line sung as follows - and I thought it made perfect sense - since it calls
Lakshmi as one who is dear to girijA, rather than Lakshmi being the daugher of giri.
gIta vAdyavinOdinIm girijAptAm indirAm
Haven't checked references though.
-Ramakriya
p.s: BTW, I am not able to bold the lines in spite of using the tags. Why?
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But in srI sarasvatI hitE, I think sarasvatI is not equated to shivE, but the compound word "sarasvatI hitE"
is equated to shivE. If not, there will be difficulty in interpreting 'hitE'.
-Ramakriya
P: shrI sarasvatI hitE shivE cidAnandE shivasahitE
A: vAsavAdimahitE vAsanAdi rahitE
C: kAmakOTinilayE karadhRta maNivalayE kOmaLatara hRdayE guruguhOdayE mAmava sadayE
is equated to shivE. If not, there will be difficulty in interpreting 'hitE'.
-Ramakriya
P: shrI sarasvatI hitE shivE cidAnandE shivasahitE
A: vAsavAdimahitE vAsanAdi rahitE
C: kAmakOTinilayE karadhRta maNivalayE kOmaLatara hRdayE guruguhOdayE mAmava sadayE
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meena/shankar
I have been told that you cannot start the vratam unless you can have it traced in the line on the husband's or wife's side. In other words you cannot just start it on your own since there is a tradition! So is it possible that those who celebrate it in TN and elsewhere had some Andhra connection in the distant past? Any historical anecdotes?
Thanks suji for that interesting puranic references from Hindu!
Incidentally I noticed that the special songs sung on the occasion are mostly telugu (traditionally) (I know this through my wife's relatives) and they have to learn them willy-nilly! Also do folks from Andhra have a 'taali' like the Tamils (I understand they use what is called a 'karugu maNi' in its place!). The doragranti used on the occasion is not a taali (am I right?).
I have been told that you cannot start the vratam unless you can have it traced in the line on the husband's or wife's side. In other words you cannot just start it on your own since there is a tradition! So is it possible that those who celebrate it in TN and elsewhere had some Andhra connection in the distant past? Any historical anecdotes?
Thanks suji for that interesting puranic references from Hindu!
Incidentally I noticed that the special songs sung on the occasion are mostly telugu (traditionally) (I know this through my wife's relatives) and they have to learn them willy-nilly! Also do folks from Andhra have a 'taali' like the Tamils (I understand they use what is called a 'karugu maNi' in its place!). The doragranti used on the occasion is not a taali (am I right?).
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The karimaNi sara is sacrosanct for kannaDigas also and is part of the mangaLa sUtra/mANgalya/tALi. There are also special golden pendants(mANgalya) made in particlar shapes depending on the community that HAS to be part of the mAngaya. karimaNi and guNDu and mAngalya should all be present in the mangaLa sUtra. of course in an emergency "ariSinada kone"(manjaL vEr) can be tied in place of the sUtra. What exactly do you mean by tALi.cmlover wrote:Also do folks from Andhra have a 'taali' like the Tamils (I understand they use what is called a 'karugu maNi' in its place!). The doragranti used on the occasion is not a taali (am I right?).
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I think there is a tAli - pottu - in AP. Correct me if I am wrong. Most Hindu communities in India came up with the concept of the tAlI so that married 'sumangalIs' could be spared the pillaging that maurading islamic troops left in their wake. The mAngalya dhAraNam is sanctified by a shlOkam and not a vEdic chant/mantra for that reason.cmlover wrote:Incidentally I noticed that the special songs sung on the occasion are mostly telugu (traditionally) (I know this through my wife's relatives) and they have to learn them willy-nilly! Also do folks from Andhra have a 'taali' like the Tamils (I understand they use what is called a 'karugu maNi' in its place!). The doragranti used on the occasion is not a taali (am I right?).
The dOragrathI is not a tAlI ...it is a much thinner yellow thread with nine knots or granthIs in it. During the pUja, the granthIs/knots are made and a spot of kumkumam is placed on each knot chanting the dOragranthi pUja:
kamalAyai namaha prathamagranthim pUjayAmil
ramAyai namaha dvitIyagranthim.........l
lOkmAtrE namaha.......l
vishwajananyai namaha......l
mahAlakshmyai namaha.....l
kshIrAbdhitanayAyai......l
vishwasAkshiNyai namaha.....l
chandrasahOdaryai namaha......l
harivallabhAyai namaha.....l
After this, the first dOragranthi is offered to varalakshmI...and the remaining are tied around the right hands of women and girls in the family. I do not know exactly what the 9 knots denote.
I have always suspected that as a family we do have some ties to AP...not really sure why, but just a feeling.
Ravi
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This is incorrect Ravi. I remeber you said the same thing in my thread> There are vedic mantras/references and maybe a new thread should be started.rshankar wrote:Most Hindu communities in India came up with the concept of the tAlI so that married 'sumangalIs' could be spared the pillaging that maurading islamic troops left in their wake. The mAngalya dhAraNam is sanctified by a shlOkam and not a vEdic chant/mantra for that reason.--Ravi
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cml
i do not know how the vratha is practiced @ my MIL.
Its not passed down either for us. For us one has to married to perform this pooja.
We just keep 'kalsha'- (silver pot-coconut/ beetle leaf in H20) and decorate it with all gold jewellery we have and late eve. after the lights are lit the pooja is performed, and of course special food/sweets are prepared.
My amma/rest of my relatives as far as i know we don't do any fasting or tali pooja.
My ajji (my ammas mom) they celebrate varalakshmi vratha on diwali night. Like the north indians.
--- i guess we being non-brahmins and telugu, but not from AP, we follow a miss mash of both customs
kannadigas - they tie 'nombu' thread on their wrist.
i do not know how the vratha is practiced @ my MIL.
Its not passed down either for us. For us one has to married to perform this pooja.
We just keep 'kalsha'- (silver pot-coconut/ beetle leaf in H20) and decorate it with all gold jewellery we have and late eve. after the lights are lit the pooja is performed, and of course special food/sweets are prepared.
My amma/rest of my relatives as far as i know we don't do any fasting or tali pooja.
My ajji (my ammas mom) they celebrate varalakshmi vratha on diwali night. Like the north indians.
--- i guess we being non-brahmins and telugu, but not from AP, we follow a miss mash of both customs
kannadigas - they tie 'nombu' thread on their wrist.
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Here's the BhAgyada lakshmi bAramma I learnt on this auspicious Friday
http://rapidshare.de/files/28244507/BhA ... a.mp3.html
This is my first try at madhyamAvati.
http://rapidshare.de/files/28244507/BhA ... a.mp3.html
This is my first try at madhyamAvati.
Last edited by Suji Ram on 05 Aug 2006, 13:12, edited 1 time in total.
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CMLcmlover wrote:Can we have from our Telugu folks the origin as well as the way it is traditionally celebrated therein? Is it true that it is a tradition passed on in the family through the women and that it pasees unbroken through the generation
It all started with Charumathi devi, who dreamt of doing a lakshmi pooja on a friday preceeding the full moon in Sraavana Maasa with a poorna Kalasam sitting on mango leaves and banyan twigs. As Meena said, it is passed down in the family and every family has a different format (all of them will do more or less similar things) of doing this Pooja. You will get to eat lot of home made traditional sweets too
Apparently, it is the conversation between Goddess parvathi and lord Shiva that brought this secret pooja onto the earth.
Sankar!!!
I think Nine granthis in the toram represent nava nidhis....
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Thanks kiran
I believe that varalakshmi vrtam is a heritage which Telugus carried with them into TN and propagated therein just as the Tamil Iyengars have propogated the divya prabandams to the nooks and corners of SI.
suji
very nicely done. That was one of my favourites and no varlakshmi vratam is complete without singing that. I have several versions but all are commercial! It is nice to hear it with a personal touch from you!
DRS
are you asking about the 'taali' in TN? Even christians and muslims have taali in TN! There is no Rigvedic reference to 'mangala sutram' (special vedic chants). I guess it came after the Muslim invasion (who always preferred virgins
I believe that varalakshmi vrtam is a heritage which Telugus carried with them into TN and propagated therein just as the Tamil Iyengars have propogated the divya prabandams to the nooks and corners of SI.
suji
very nicely done. That was one of my favourites and no varlakshmi vratam is complete without singing that. I have several versions but all are commercial! It is nice to hear it with a personal touch from you!
DRS
are you asking about the 'taali' in TN? Even christians and muslims have taali in TN! There is no Rigvedic reference to 'mangala sutram' (special vedic chants). I guess it came after the Muslim invasion (who always preferred virgins
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CMLcmlover wrote:DRS
are you asking about the 'taali' in TN? Even christians and muslims have taali in TN! There is no Rigvedic reference to 'mangala sutram' (special vedic chants). I guess it came after the Muslim invasion (who always preferred virgins
Was your post meant to goad me to write more on the subject?;)
I wanted to know if you meant the entire mangaLasUtra or a part thereof by the word "tAli". Please clarify that.
RgvEda is not the only vEda. And absence of vEdic reference does not automatically push the mAngalya to Muslim times. Pardon me for saying this, but such a notion is preposterous even blasphemous.
Last edited by drshrikaanth on 05 Aug 2006, 22:32, edited 1 time in total.
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DRS
My original query about 'karugu maNi' was in relation to what goes inside the 'managaLa sUtra'. This varies among communities (christians for example include a 'cross'!).
Our concept of marriage 'ceremony' arises from Rig veda, the wedding of Soma with sUryA (Rigveda 10.85). grihya sutras formalized and integrated the rituals strating with Rigveda and integrating from the rest of the vedas as well as sUtras. The collection is called 'EkAgnikhANDaM' or mantraprashnaM. The key shloka is
'vAgdAnaM ca pradAnaM ca varaNaM pANipIDanaM|
sapatapAdIti pancA^NgO vivAvaH parikIrtitaH||
note the absence of 'mA^Ngalaya dhArNaM' in these essential angas. I have no proof that it started with muslim incursion but kALidAsa does not mention it:)
My original query about 'karugu maNi' was in relation to what goes inside the 'managaLa sUtra'. This varies among communities (christians for example include a 'cross'!).
Our concept of marriage 'ceremony' arises from Rig veda, the wedding of Soma with sUryA (Rigveda 10.85). grihya sutras formalized and integrated the rituals strating with Rigveda and integrating from the rest of the vedas as well as sUtras. The collection is called 'EkAgnikhANDaM' or mantraprashnaM. The key shloka is
'vAgdAnaM ca pradAnaM ca varaNaM pANipIDanaM|
sapatapAdIti pancA^NgO vivAvaH parikIrtitaH||
note the absence of 'mA^Ngalaya dhArNaM' in these essential angas. I have no proof that it started with muslim incursion but kALidAsa does not mention it:)
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I have already explained this. To reiterate "kari maNi" (black beads), guNDu (Golden beads in a polygonal shape(3-D of course) and mAngalya in a bilaterally symmetrical manner. These are mandatory AFAIK. In the centre a pendant is often included. It usually depicts mahAlakShmi in brahmins. The lingayats have a "linga" in a holding box as a pendant.cmlover wrote:My original query about 'karugu maNi' was in relation to what goes inside the 'managaLa sUtra'. This varies among communities (christians for example include a 'cross'!).
The shape/form of the mAngalya is peculiar to communities. While boTTu tALi is usual among kammes anda brAhmaNas, in sankEtis it is "huNise bIja" or shaped as a tamarind seed. Yet others have different shapes (Iyers and Iyengars for instance).
Last edited by drshrikaanth on 05 Aug 2006, 23:15, edited 1 time in total.
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First a SlOka from saundarya laharI of Adi SankarcArya.
galE rEkhAstisraH gatigamaka gItaika nipuNE |
vivAhavyAnaddha praguNaguNa sankhyA prabhuvaH |
virAjantE nAnAvidha madhura rAgAkarabhuvAm |
trayaNAm grAMANAm sthiti niyama sImAna iva tE ||69||
Here Sankara explicitly compares the three lines in Her neck to the mAgalya tied by ISvara at the time of their marriage.
Here is a link to discussion on this SlOka by kanci paramAcArya.
http://www.geocities.com/profvk/gohitvip/DPDS76-81.html
galE rEkhAstisraH gatigamaka gItaika nipuNE |
vivAhavyAnaddha praguNaguNa sankhyA prabhuvaH |
virAjantE nAnAvidha madhura rAgAkarabhuvAm |
trayaNAm grAMANAm sthiti niyama sImAna iva tE ||69||
Here Sankara explicitly compares the three lines in Her neck to the mAgalya tied by ISvara at the time of their marriage.
Here is a link to discussion on this SlOka by kanci paramAcArya.
http://www.geocities.com/profvk/gohitvip/DPDS76-81.html
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The latest date assigned to Adi Sankara is te 8th century. About 2 centuries after Prophet Mohammed. However the mulslims were largely unknown in India until the 11th Century when Muhammed of Ghazni invaded and occupied areas currently included in Paksitan and some parts of NorthWestern India. Note that they came nowhere near South India even now. Delhi was occupied by the Muslims only at the very end of the 12th Century(1194)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_o ... im_history
This is well after the time of Adi Sankara. So this duly dismisses tha fallacy that Muslims were the cause for mngaLa sUtra entering our tradition.
[Of course Sankara had divine foresight and may have seen the Muslims invading. Scared for SrImAta's chastity, he tied her with a mANgalya in his poem thus introducing the tradition of tying mAngalya]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_o ... im_history
This is well after the time of Adi Sankara. So this duly dismisses tha fallacy that Muslims were the cause for mngaLa sUtra entering our tradition.
[Of course Sankara had divine foresight and may have seen the Muslims invading. Scared for SrImAta's chastity, he tied her with a mANgalya in his poem thus introducing the tradition of tying mAngalya]
Last edited by drshrikaanth on 06 Aug 2006, 01:11, edited 1 time in total.
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DRS
The practice might have existed before the arrival of Islam! But it was strictly regional. Probabaly it was a Dravidian practice adopted into Hinduism locally! I have attended several NI weddings with no mangalsutra ceremony! Again the absence of any reference in the vedas (barring grihya sutras which are numerous) to claim it is a 'Hindu' practice is too generous! The 'maa^Ng' ceremony is very important for the NI but is unown in South. We cannot generalize!
The practice might have existed before the arrival of Islam! But it was strictly regional. Probabaly it was a Dravidian practice adopted into Hinduism locally! I have attended several NI weddings with no mangalsutra ceremony! Again the absence of any reference in the vedas (barring grihya sutras which are numerous) to claim it is a 'Hindu' practice is too generous! The 'maa^Ng' ceremony is very important for the NI but is unown in South. We cannot generalize!
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Now you are talking. But hold on. Just a while ago, you said vEdas dont have reference to it ad now you are quietly introducing the gRhya sUtras but slighting them. Why should they not be important. Their bein numerous dos not detract from their value.cmlover wrote:Again the absence of any reference in the vedas (barring grihya sutras which are numerous) to claim it is a 'Hindu' practice is too generous!
And lalitA sahasranAma is not a South Indian text.
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Grihya sUtras do not have the authority of the vedas! There are several of them which are regional! The mantras in the sUtras are said to be compiled based on the vedas and brahmaNas but not all are referenced. The wedding mantras primarily are from Rig veda which does not mention mangal sutra ceremony. shruti takes precedence over smriti and the sUtras belong to the latter category!
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How can you disprove this CML? And the sahsranAma is considered the "ultimate" authority on dEvItantra, SaktiupAsane and SrIvidyA. It is not in circulation only in the south.
The text is narrated by sUta as a conversation between hayagrIva and agastya where hayagrIva tells agastya about lalitA, her mahime and the way to worship her. Even if you take agastya as a South Indian(There is no proof for this either) he is being taught by hayagrIva. hayagrIva, to my knowledge, has never been claimed to be a South Indian.
Anyway this is a minor point as is the presence or absence of Vedic references. South India is not outside the realm of Hinduism.The point is, this is an ancient practice and tradition that is part of mainstream Hinduism.
It may well be that tying the mAngalya is not followed by some communities in NI or even in SI. But lot of communities do not follow what is taught in or expected of by the vEdas.
The text is narrated by sUta as a conversation between hayagrIva and agastya where hayagrIva tells agastya about lalitA, her mahime and the way to worship her. Even if you take agastya as a South Indian(There is no proof for this either) he is being taught by hayagrIva. hayagrIva, to my knowledge, has never been claimed to be a South Indian.
Anyway this is a minor point as is the presence or absence of Vedic references. South India is not outside the realm of Hinduism.The point is, this is an ancient practice and tradition that is part of mainstream Hinduism.
It may well be that tying the mAngalya is not followed by some communities in NI or even in SI. But lot of communities do not follow what is taught in or expected of by the vEdas.
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One will certainly find references to the mAngalya in Ancient south Indian literature as well as in Sanskrit literature(I ahve mentioned 2 crucial ones). The other North Indian languages are significantly younger and hence that line of investigation/reasoning is closed.
Anyway the point is Muslims had nothing to do with mANgalyadhAraNa coming into vogue. Even more so if you claim the practice to be of South Indian origin. As Muslims were not able to influence our beliefs or traditions in the South as compared to their influence in the North.
Anyway the point is Muslims had nothing to do with mANgalyadhAraNa coming into vogue. Even more so if you claim the practice to be of South Indian origin. As Muslims were not able to influence our beliefs or traditions in the South as compared to their influence in the North.
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OK. I agree with the essence of your post. But there is no proof to call them regional.cmlover wrote:Grihya sUtras do not have the authority of the vedas! There are several of them which are regional! The mantras in the sUtras are said to be compiled based on the vedas and brahmaNas but not all are referenced. The wedding mantras primarily are from Rig veda which does not mention mangal sutra ceremony. shruti takes precedence over smriti and the sUtras belong to the latter category!
Last edited by drshrikaanth on 06 Aug 2006, 02:32, edited 1 time in total.
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I quote kanci paramAcArya.
[quote=""paramAcArya""]
Panigrahana (the groom taking the hand of the bride in his), mangalyadharana, saptapadi (the bridal pair taking the seven steps round the sacrificial fire ) are important rites of the marriage function. There is a controversy about whether or not mangalya-dharana is a Vedic rite. It is an unnecessary controversy. Mangalya-dharana is a custom that is thousands of years old and it is an essential part of the marriage samskara.[/quote]
The link is here
http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part19/chap1.htm
[quote=""paramAcArya""]
Panigrahana (the groom taking the hand of the bride in his), mangalyadharana, saptapadi (the bridal pair taking the seven steps round the sacrificial fire ) are important rites of the marriage function. There is a controversy about whether or not mangalya-dharana is a Vedic rite. It is an unnecessary controversy. Mangalya-dharana is a custom that is thousands of years old and it is an essential part of the marriage samskara.[/quote]
The link is here
http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part19/chap1.htm