Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Ideas and innovations in Indian classical music
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cmlover
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by cmlover »

I thought you have 'catholic' tastes :D

Sangeet Rasik
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by Sangeet Rasik »

cmlover wrote:I thought you have 'catholic' tastes :D
Heh...but I must "confess" that it stops short of "Hail Marys". ]:)

cmlover
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by cmlover »

AkAshAt patitam tOyaM yathA gaccati sAgaraM
sarva dEva namaskAraH IshaputraM prati gaccati ||

Ishvarasya putraH iti IshA (Jesus)| :devil:

arasi
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by arasi »

Jehovah?
Last edited by arasi on 11 May 2010, 21:23, edited 1 time in total.

Sangeet Rasik
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by Sangeet Rasik »

CML, Yes, all very well, but this philosophical largesse should be reciprocated. As previous posters have written, there are a number of CM compositions on representatives of other religions, written by Indians (whether out of faith or zeal). Let's wait for some european classical music (or even popular music) compositions on Bharatiya Sanskriti. I am not holding my breath to see the "Raktagrivas" belonging to evangelical sects composing on Indian culture.

Sangeet Rasik
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by Sangeet Rasik »

The next composition presented is in the raga Bahar and in Jhampa/Jhap tala.

Bahar is a distinctive type of kanada and is specialized for the description of the Spring season. Rshabha is absent from the arohana, and the Madhyama is very strong.

Bahar is suitable for singing in all kalas. The present composition includes sections in vilambita and madhyama kalas, followed a tillana/tarana in druta. These three can be sung separately with elaboration (in the Hindustani khayal model), or in a more structured pallavi+samashticaranam+tillana (in the Karnatic krti model). The approximate svarasthanas of the tillana passages are included.

The ragamudra is implied in the term "bahuhAra".

Best Wishes,
SR
Last edited by Sangeet Rasik on 02 Aug 2010, 10:44, edited 2 times in total.

Sangeet Rasik
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by Sangeet Rasik »

Image

“mama mAnasam harshati” (2009)

http://www.sendspace.com/file/r666ic

bahArarAgE jhampatAlEna gIyatE

pallavi

mama mAnasam harshati O kAntE | madanavasantam dEvAnAm IkshamANah ||

samashticaraNam

RshayO dEvA’yajan kusumAkaram | RturAjam yadA’jigharuh kAmAnvitam ||
ishirE brahmaNi babhUva tadA bhuvi | iha sArangaRtuh SRngArasukhaRtuh ||
nishIdan tava sakASE mOdO vardhatE | nAyakahRdAlayE bahuhArAbhUshitE ||

tillAna

S . S nn p n p p m m | g m m n d n2 . S S S ||
dhIm . dhIm . na dha na ti ra na | u da na dhIm dhIm ta na na ||

s s s m . m p p g . | GM R GM R R g m d n2 S ||
dhir dhir dhir dhIm ta na ta jam . | tOm . tOm . na ta na ti ra na ||

m p g m n d n2 S S S | S/R/M . n n n p m p g . ||
rE ta da ni ta na ta ka ju Nu | dhIm . da na na na dhi ra na . ||

g m r r ns m . m n d | n2 S M S R S n n n p ||
tOm . na na dhri tIm . na tOm . | ta na dhIm . dhIm . ta na na na ||

g m p g . m n d n2 S | S n2 p m . p g m r r ||
dhi na ta da . ni dhi ra na na | ta ni ta jham ta dhIm . ta na ||

s s m m m m p p g . | GM R GM R R g m d n2 S ||
dhir dhir dhir dhir dhir ta na ta jam . | tOm . tOm . na ta na ti ra na ||


Translation and Notes


O Beloved! My mind rejoices as I behold the intoxicating Vasant (Spring), which is of the Devas.
When the rishis and devas performed Yajna [1], they offered Kusumakara (Vasant), the King of Seasons [2], who was endowed with Desire [3],
In (this) Brahman-Fire arose on earth here, the Season of colors [4], the Season of romantic love and happiness.
Sitting in your presence, (my) delight grows, you who reside in the heart of the Nayaka, you who are adorned with many garlands/necklaces.

[1] This refers to the Yajna on the cosmic scale, rather than on the earthly scale. Rf. RV 10.90.
[2] Rtu (season) is here meant on the cosmic scale.
[3] By kama (desire) is meant the desire to create the universe.
[4] sAranga also refers to the koel (cuckoo) bird which appears in the Spring season.

cmlover
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by cmlover »

Well done SR! (albeit a little too late since we are baking in the gRIShma rtu :D

The aalaapana is just beautiful and the lyric blends. Give me some time to analyze and digest your lyrics.
(await some tough questionns :D
Bahar is not a common raga in CM though Santanam sings a tillana. Do explain the raga lakshaNa in the carnatic style.
It is worth having more compositions in Bahar (arasi may note!).
Expalin why you chose Jampa taaLam too as well as any puranic (ithihasic) reference to your conceptualizations.
Liked the term sArangaRtuh and your esplanations!

Sangeet Rasik
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by Sangeet Rasik »

CML,

Thanks! Look forward to discussions.
cmlover wrote:Well done SR! (albeit a little too late since we are baking in the gRIShma rtu :D
Perhaps you can get some "mental respite" from summer via this composition, if not physical. :-)
Bahar is not a common raga in CM though Santanam sings a tillana. Do explain the raga lakshaNa in the carnatic style.
BTW, isn't Santanam's tillana in Basant Bahar, and not Bahar ? Basant Bahar takes the arohana of Bahar and avaroha of Basant, in the process acquiring all 12 swaras.

I will also create a separate post for discussing the raga/composition in more details.

SR

vasanthakokilam
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Sounds great SR. Congratulations! Among others, I like the "O ...." part, gives the feeling of wonderment/adbhutham. Same with the other long vowel words ( before even getting to know the meaning ).

I will read any further commentaries from you and discussions with others. One question on the rhythm. In thala keeping for this, should I do it in 2-kaLai with "ti" harshati falling on the anudrutham of the thala, with the graha at 2.5 beats from samam. That seems to work pretty well, hence I thought I will ask.

Sangeet Rasik
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by Sangeet Rasik »

Thanks, VK, for the comments!
vasanthakokilam wrote:One question on the rhythm. In thala keeping for this, should I do it in 2-kaLai with "ti" harshati falling on the anudrutham of the thala, with the graha at 2.5 beats from samam. That seems to work pretty well, hence I thought I will ask.
Each half-line e.g. "mama manasam harshati o kante" corresponds to 1 cycle of tala (10 matras). Keeping with the common CM practice, the composition starts on samam (in HM many compositions do not). "ti" is on the 6th beat of the laghu. But you can also meter the tala at double speed (this is done towards the end of the composition after the madhyamakala portion is sung).

The tillana rhythm and pace hews more to the HM practice. It is not meant to be sung while "keeping the tala" with the fingers as done in CM.

SR

arasi
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by arasi »

Very nice, SR. A detailed delienation of the rAg.
The picture, is it the Valley of Flowers, by any chance?

vasanthakokilam
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by vasanthakokilam »

SR, The prononced stress on "ti" gave me the idea that you may have intended to align that with the 8th beat, treating it as the 'arudi/padagarba' like anchor. But I get it that you are starting the song itself on the stroke of the first beat and so 'ti' falls on the 6th beat.

The second and many other subsequent times you sing 'mama', the beat seems to fall on the second 'ma' with the first 'ma' after the beat. Is that true?

Why do you say it is the common CM practice to start the song on samam when we have numerous songs of Thyagaraja and others that do not.

Sangeet Rasik
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by Sangeet Rasik »

Thanks, Arasi. Glad you enjoyed the composition. Yes indeed, it is the valley of flowers in Uttarakhand !

SR
Last edited by Sangeet Rasik on 04 Aug 2010, 08:50, edited 1 time in total.

Sangeet Rasik
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by Sangeet Rasik »

vasanthakokilam wrote:The second and many other subsequent times you sing 'mama', the beat seems to fall on the second 'ma' with the first 'ma' after the beat. Is that true?
Yes, it falls slightly after the first beat and before the second. After the first sangati, the next 2 sangatis begin off-samam. But at the end I return to the first sangati.
Why do you say it is the common CM practice to start the song on samam when we have numerous songs of Thyagaraja and others that do not.
Of course there are numerous pallavis with off-samam starts, but it is definitely more common in CM to start on samam than not. In HM compositions, that is not the case. For example, among the hundreds of compositions notated in Bhatkhande's "Hindustani sangeet paddhati", I would say the majority have sthayis (equivalent of the pallavi) starting off-samam. The antaras (anupallavis) tend more frequently to start on samam.

SR

vasanthakokilam
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Interesting. Thanks SR for the info.

Sangeet Rasik
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by Sangeet Rasik »

This post is for adding notes on the recent composition in raga Bahar.

Bahar is one of the "prakaaras" of Kanada, although a very distinct one.

Aroha: s m1 , m1 p, g1 m1 n1, d n2 S
Avaroha: S n1 p m1 p g1 m1 (s) r2 s

Some distinctive phrases are "s m m p", "g m n d n2 S, n2 S R2 S", "S M (S) R2 S". Leaps from g to the next sthayi (G) are also executed, i.e., "g ---> G, M (S) R S". Kanada features such as "g m r s" and "S n1 ---> p" (with the execution of a meend, e.g., at "babhUva") are clearly apparent.

Overall, the rshabha is de-emphasized. The aroha omits it altogether, and the " g m r s" prayoga is often sung as "g m (s) r s" and other variations generally aimed at diminishing the rshabha. On the other hand, one of the clearest features of Bahar is the strength of the madhyama. A number of prayogas and gamakas are executed around M. This is not found in the other traditional kanada-based ragas.

The majority of existing compositions in Bahar are in madhyama kala and druta kala. This raga very well invokes the exuberance and "shringara rasa" associated with the Spring season. "Bahar" means "Spring" in Persian, and is likely a cognate of the Sanskrit word "Vasant". The predominant template for madhyamakala compositions in Bahar is the prayoga "S, n p m p g m n d n2 , S" or a variant thereof.

The present composition also applies a variant of this theme in the madhyamakala section, but the vilambit kala section is entirely different. The raga is brought out in much more detail. One other feature in this composition is the more sparing use of the kakali nishada in the druta (tillana) section. Although it is fully present, it is not elongated, i.e. the prayoga "n d n2 , S" is replaced with the faster "n d n2 S" as fitting the pace of the tillana.

The sahitya of the composition emphasizes - in concert with my previous composition in raga Megh on the "varshA Rtu" - a strong connection with Vedic symbolism. Again, the vowel "R" is emphasized, being a vehicle of Rgvedic revelation and occurring in key terms such as Rk, Rshi, Rta, Rtu, RNa, etc. Some of these Vedic terms, and the use of the term "Vasant" in the Purusha Sukta, are considered here. The occurrence of Spring on Earth, and its association with blossoming of flowers, colors, romantic love, etc is connected in this composition with the offering of Vasant as the "ghee" into the cosmic Yajna by the Rshis and Devas (Purusha Sukta) and the Desire to create the Universe. The roots "yaj" and "ghR" are applied to make this connection, and lead ultimately to the expression of "shringara" inspired by the earthly Spring season. There are no "puranic", "aitihasik" or "religious" influences in this composition.

The tala is Jhampa/Jhap tala. It is chosen due to the long length of the cycle and its asymmetrical, more complex structure. Jhap tala has a 2+3+2+3 structure, which can be arranged into, e.g., 7+1+2 (CM Jhampa tala), 7+3, or 5+5 movements.

While the music, rhythm, and the lyrics (including the word-roots) employed in the composition are deliberated and polished over a period of time, the core of the composition was "inspired" by "creative impulses" and emotional considerations - which are however subsequently refined in a more deliberate manner.

Best Wishes,
SR

cmlover
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by cmlover »

Nice discussion of the raga lakshana!
worth more compositions in it in CM. From your aalaap I guess it is capable of elabooration.

Couple of sahitya questions:
What is the grammar for the word 'ajigharuh' ? From what dhatu is it derived?
'ishirE brahmaNi babhUva tadA bhuvi iha sArangaRtuh..' = They (Rishis and devas?) saw in
Brahman (?fire) on the earth then spring arose ..
Is this correct? Is this an oblique reference to PuruSha sUktam?

Sangeet Rasik
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by Sangeet Rasik »

cmlover wrote:What is the grammar for the word 'ajigharuh' ? From what dhatu is it derived?
"ajigharuh" is the 3rd person plural past tense of the root "ghR" (to sprinkle, and specifically to sprinkle into the fire as an offering). The word "ghRta" (ghee) means "that which is sprinkled (into the Vedic fire)". Yes, indeed it is the reference to the purusha sukta.
'ishirE brahmaNi babhUva tadA bhuvi iha sArangaRtuh..'
The pratipadartha is as follows: the rishis and devas (rshayo deva) performed yajna (ayajan), and when they sprinkled/offered (yada ajigharuh) the king of seasons, abundant with blossoms - used here in the metaphorical sense for the various objects manifested in creation -, infused with Desire - again metaphorical (kusumakaram rturajam kamanvitam), then (tada), in the brahman-fire (ishire brahmani), came into existence (babhuva) here on earth (bhuvi iha) the season of colors, love, happiness etc (sarangartuh shringarasukhartuh).

SR

Suji Ram
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by Suji Ram »

SR,
Congrats on creating this excellent composition in bahAr.
There is this wonderful integrity of lyrics and musicality in your composition.
This is a fine example of bridging the two forms of Indian music.

At the tillana/tarana part it took me to my favorite KL Saigal”s bAg lagA doon sajini- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN7EUuMHl7U

I felt your presentation was a bit slow-paced, but I guess you want it to be like that. Is the tillana/tarana a part of this composition? I wish you added some lyrical content to it. This would make for a great cosmic dance!!

I tried your pUrvikalyANi sometime back but was overwhelmed by the length of the composition-couldn’t complete it.
Wish to hear more of your creations.
Last edited by Suji Ram on 06 Aug 2010, 02:46, edited 1 time in total.

arasi
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by arasi »

Suji,
Nice to get your impressions. You not only listen to our compositions but also try to play them on your violin!

cmlover
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by cmlover »

Thanks SR

Do note that 'ghR sEcanE' will have the past perfect third person plural would be 'jaghruh' (on analogy with 'kR'). I realize you are using the 10th class and the aorist (third variety) whence the third person plural would be (ajIgharan) (See Kale Higher Grammar Aorists third variety page 344)

I did not realize that 'ishir' means fire in the vedic sense! Nice to use vedic terminology for vedic connotations (as Kalidasa does!).

Nice to see you Suji. Keep up your contact with us thrugh the Forum...

Sangeet Rasik
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by Sangeet Rasik »

cmlover wrote:Do note that 'ghR sEcanE' will have the past perfect third person plural would be 'jaghruh' (on analogy with 'kR'). I realize you are using the 10th class and the aorist (third variety) whence the third person plural would be (ajIgharan) (See Kale Higher Grammar Aorists third variety page 344)
Neither, actually. In this line I only use the so-called "imperfect" (actually the most commonly used) past tense, and not the perfect or aorist. I use the standard 3rd class (not 10th). It is hence ajigharuh (for ghR) and ayajan (for yaj). In the next line I use the perfect (babhUva).
I did not realize that 'ishir' means fire in the vedic sense! Nice to use vedic terminology for vedic connotations (as Kalidasa does!).
Yes, indeed! Thanks.

SR

cmlover
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by cmlover »

Thanks SR
I believe 'ghR' belonging to 3rd class belongs to vedic origin.
Currently in classical sanskrit it belongs to class 1 as well as 10.

arasi
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by arasi »

Suji,
You can try bahAr on the piano too!

Sangeet Rasik
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by Sangeet Rasik »

Suji Ram,

Thanks for your comments, and good to see your post.
I felt your presentation was a bit slow-paced, but I guess you want it to be like that.
Yes, you are right. I feel that composing in vilambit kala allows one to explore the raga in its full detail and splendor. That being said, it also places a higher expectation on the performer, since every phrase, every twist and turn has to be clear and well-executed, one cannot gloss over the substance with quick flashes. For those who seek a faster pace, they can speed it up (although not recommended) or wait till the madhyama kala portion.
Is the tillana/tarana a part of this composition? I wish you added some lyrical content to it. This would make for a great cosmic dance!!
Yes, it is part of the overall "three courses" which include a vilambita, a madhyama and a druta. As I briefly mentioned in a previous post, they can be sung together without any break as in the CM idiom (with the madhyama section being part of the samashticharanam), or they can be sung more in a more loosely-knit manner as in the HM idiom. I deliberately did not add lyrics to the tillana, since I wanted it to be purely rhythm and raga. Perhaps in a future composition.....
I tried your pUrvikalyANi sometime back but was overwhelmed by the length of the composition-couldn’t complete it. Wish to hear more of your creations.
Oh, I am glad you tried it! I am sure you will be inspired to complete it and let us listen. You will definitely hear many more compositions in this thread - I am in here for the long haul :-)

Best Wishes,
SR

Sangeet Rasik
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by Sangeet Rasik »

CML, yes of course you are right, ghR is seen in class 1 and class 10 forms also. Class 3 is indeed the original and continues to be used.

SR

arunk
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by arunk »

For those who seek a faster pace, they can speed it up (although not recommended) or wait till the madhyama kala portion.
Dont know why but that brings a very wide smile to my face :grin: - quite well put!

Arun

Sangeet Rasik
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by Sangeet Rasik »

:grin: Glad you found my comment amusing. If I recall correctly, one of my first posts on this fine forum here, had to do with the effects of the modern-day "need for speed". My recommendation then was to slow things down.

SR

mankuthimma
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by mankuthimma »

I listened to the Bahar Krithi and found it very very engaging . Some singers here should make a serious attempt at singing these contemporary stuff . I beg of them.
We owe it to them . This is only area where some creative effort is still alive
If only I could sing . 8)
I would love contemporary issues like the pain of inter religion hatred or child slavery , or the strength in the diversity of India ( what an idea for a ragamalika ! ) being a subject of your next composition.
These subjects get such a lustre when shown against the light of humor by the likes of Asok Chakradhar . Cannot imagine how powerful a tool , such a CM-HM composition can be. With such subjects.

Sangeet Rasik
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by Sangeet Rasik »

mankuthimma wrote:I listened to the Bahar Krithi and found it very very engaging . Some singers here should make a serious attempt at singing these contemporary stuff . I beg of them.
We owe it to them . This is only area where some creative effort is still alive
Thanks, Coolkarni (in your newest avatar), for your comments. I much appreciate them, coming as they do from a "Maharasik".
I would love contemporary issues like the pain of inter religion hatred or child slavery , or the strength in the diversity of India ( what an idea for a ragamalika ! ) being a subject of your next composition.... Cannot imagine how powerful a tool , such a CM-HM composition can be. With such subjects.
I entirely agree with you, and share your enthusiasm fully. Rest assured that subjects of this nature are indeed being woven into my compositions - maybe not my "next" one but definitely in the near future.

Best Wishes,
SR

Sangeet Rasik
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Re: Compositions that reflect contemporary themes.

Post by Sangeet Rasik »

Dear Rasiks,

I have decided to close my account at rasikas.org. This is a note of explanation to the genuine rasiks in the forum.

I hope the genuine rasiks will not misunderstand me. I have enjoyed sharing my compositions with you. My musical journey will continue and hopefully become more visible in the music community in the coming years. I have also enjoyed the many discussions I have had here, and appreciate your attention to my compositions and my views.

< mod edit, for preserving context. For SR's full post, see here: http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic. ... 20#p180520 >

If you are interested in receiving links to my compositions, you can send an email to [email protected], and I will place you on my (anonymous) mailing list.

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