Lalgudi Sahaptham Begins With Lakshmi Devanath's Book

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 01 Dec 2013, 01:51

My approach is to DISCUSS EVERY ASPECT OF KALPITHA & MANODHARMA ONE BY ONE. So I envisage this in terms of starting with a kriti. It is well known LGJ'S VARNAMS , PALLAVIS & THILLANAS ARE VERY SPECIAL & DESERVE TO BE DISCUSSED AS A SPECIAL EXAMINATION AS A SUBJECT. In starting with a kriti I am hoping to discuss his ORIGINAL CONTRIBUTIONS.
For example in rendering kritis LGJ in his SOLOS AIMED AT PERFECTION in every aspect.To just illustrate what I mean for example lets take the pallavi UN DHARISANAM KIDAIKUMO NATARAJA. BEC of various reasons esp. nadai, thalam etc MOST artists will stumble into it as UNDAHRISANAM KIDAIKUMO NATARAA....JA in effect murdering the meaning. This is especially so in rendering THYAGARAJA-TELUGU- KRITIS & EXPERTS IN LANGUAGE (My wife is one such. Iam NOT) are actually offended & terms like "Aravavadu" etc are used to describe Tamilians like me.
MMI (as pointed out elsewhere SRD Vaidyanathan (Nadswaram great) when he went to MMI to learn kritis MMI asked him which of the 2000 kritis he knew he wanted to learn) ; MMI he had no hesitation to sing any kriti when LGJ accompanied him bec. he definitely knew it. We have all observed when the violinist does the SA-PA-SA Routine for compositions he does not know. That LGJ using the VIOLIN can make it equivalent to VOICE is astounding! POINT IS LGJ'S repertoire was VAST & AS HE STUDIED THE LANGUAGE & TEXT AS WELL THE TECHNICAL ASPECTS DEEPLY THERE WAS NO DOUBT ABOUT ANY ASPECT OF KRITI HE RENDERED. It is one of the reasons we cannot GUESS WHICH kriti LGJ will play after his alapana.He used the BHAVAM, TECHNICAL NOTE STRUCTURE USED BY THE COMPOSER, LAYAM(to be discussed later) and used the SANGATIS APPROPRIATELY TO CONVEY THE MOOD MEANING TECHNICAL ASPECTS & BHAVAM PERFECTLY. Thats why HIS MUSIC WAS LIKE A MAGNET TO ANYONE-INITIATED & UNINITIATED-. NO WONDER he felt that the changes in the 33 kritis he introduced were not innovations per se but these innovations WERE ALL QUICKLY ACCEPTED BY ALL THE VIDVANS.
When he came up with the Najeevadara lp recordings it created an Earthquake of MAGNITUDE 8 in musical circles. This note only talks about the rendering as the kriti is considered to be Kalpitha. He had introduced Manodharma into it & SUCCEEDED & made the KRITI PERFECT IN terms of Language, technical aspects as well as BHAVAM & EMOTIONS ETC.
I request others who have opinions & examples in this area to please enlighten us in this area & aspects. VKV

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 01 Dec 2013, 21:44

https://archive.org/details/janakiramana

Thats why HIS MUSIC WAS LIKE A MAGNET TO ANYONE-INITIATED & UNINITIATED

SrinathK · Post by **SrinathK** » 02 Dec 2013, 07:04

There is one other point I would like to know. When exactly did LGJ and other violinists of the time make the switch over from Gut Strings to Steel ones? From recordings I'm pretty certain that by the 70s most violinists had shifted to steel (TNK for one never changed). Given the tonal quality of his solo recordings in the 60s, 70s and eventually 80s and even the 90s, I'm pretty sure that by the start of the 70s he had changed over from gut to a higher tension steel set, but by the start of the 80s he had definitely settled into (a lower tension) steel. (A gripe I have on LGJ's music is that few of his available recordings are of very good quality and the sound quality varies dramatically from album to album -- strangely the older recordings in the 50s and 60s sounded so much more natural compared to the ones in the 80s and beyond). As a point of comparison, I refer to the Rama Katha Sudha recording (early 60s), the VVV recordings, the 1971 LGJ-NR concert tour, the 1985 and 1997 concerts and actual pictures and video footage over the decades. You see the fine tuners coming on in the 70s and 80s and recording quality vagaries aside, there are signs of a distinct change in tone in the 70s recordings and again from the 80s onward.

Yet another question is also when did gut strings go out of use? The only guts I can see in today's market are all foreign brands. Yet there was a time as per LD's book when all violinists learned to play on gut strings despite the challenges of playing on them.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 02 Dec 2013, 09:10

I do not remember the exact dates but after he went to England in the early sixties with KVN & PMI for the Edinburgh Festival he became interested in the steel strings as MSG had started using them & actually asked LGJ to get him some etc. I sent him some in late 60's & when he came in '71 to USA he definitely was using them; I took him to various speciality violin places to buy them.As you know EVERYONE tends to jump on the bandwagon but LGJ by nature is very cautious & tried it carefully.
Reg how his recordings sound etc When he started his solos in MADRAS I actually took the Presidency college tape recorder without permission & recorded at 3 3/4 speed which is not good. In reality the big guns who had Grundig etc recorded at 17/8 speed with built in mikes etc which are TERRIBLE and the tapes were also the cheap ones.. Even the ones I recorded To my surprise I found there were variations in speed & LGJ showed me they were off by 1/8 kattai etc & at end of the tapes again speed variation was big problem.
The '71 tour which I personally recorded (most of therm)at 7 1/2 speed on acceptable tape on a semi-professional REVOX with decent mikes or lineouts etc in my opinion were quite good. I am curious to know what your opinion is? I do not know what generation copy you have? Also hope they are .WAV Files etc. DID I ANSWER U R QUESTIONS? VKV

SrinathK · Post by **SrinathK** » 02 Dec 2013, 09:50

Dear Sir, I have over 400 recordings of LGJ's music which were collected over 20 years (with about a quarter of that coming from cassettes). Unfortunately the '71 tour recording I was able to get only in 32kbps from somewhere (you can imagine what that must have done to the sound...) in Sangeethamshare I believe. But still I think the sound shines well with a few Equalizer tweaks. All of the recordings I have happen to be .mp3 with one album in .wav format. I would be most happy to get higher quality recordings because those recordings represent LGJ at the absolute peak of his technical brilliance.

Earlier due to hard drive limitations I had to convert them into 128 kbps out of cassette. But most of what I was able to get over the web is way lower than that.

It's only now that hard disk capacities have increased so much that I record everything in 320 kbps mp3, but I can only do it for my cassette recordings. What I have over the web I can just tweak over the EQ. By far the worst one I had to edit was a Siva Siva Siva enaraada recording that was all noise and no music. After huge amounts of hiss reduction on Total Recorder I was able to get music out of it so that gives you an idea of the best and worst of what I have.

But out the whole collection, I find that even among commercial recordings, the quality of LGJ's solos is very variable and I do not know what is the reason for this (My MSG collection by comparison is quite consistent in tone). I still think his best recordings tonally speaking are -- any old ones with PMI, the 1967 Krishna Gana Sabha concert (I am pretty sure he still used guts at the time). The VVV recordings are also among the best, as are the jugalbandhi recordings. There are also a few mic-less (or single mike) ones with PMI which are also very good and natural sounding -- I think I am beginning to appreciate PMI's reasons for avoiding mikes in many recordings. Recordings which I have converted from Original tapes (not second hand or third hand tapes) are also good (if the mic is not too close to the bridge), but pretty much everything else I got online or from my IIT friends suffers, probably because of the damages caused by poor audio settings while converting.

Youtube recordings online do even additional damage (Even western greats have not been able to escape its ravages). They kill tonal colours due to compression and other losses so these days I always download the video/audio in high quality and prefer to listen to it offline in it's original form. In saying all this I am guilty of being rather spoilt by the sound quality of the recordings of Western violinists. We can only wonder how Indian violinists would have benefited if they had the superior kind of recording facilities of all the Western virtuosos...

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 02 Dec 2013, 09:59

Dear Srinath, Write me at [email protected]. If youre in usa or canada call me at 505:6612618. If u r in india whats u r #? I have alliance etc with infinite no of minutes etc.NM 8-11P.M. IS IDEAL. I live in los alamos nm. I can definitely do better than what you have reg. QUALITY.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 04 Dec 2013, 01:17

[update][/update]
LGJ'S CHOICES FOR KRITIS & BREIEF ANALYSIS OF VARIOUS ASPECTS.
As MMI pointed out LGJ'S REPERTOIRE was SO VAST& VARIED HIS CHOICES OF KRITIS were very deliberate& carefully structured to give the LISTENER THE BEST EDUCATIONAL AS WELL ARTISTIC EXPERIENCE. As soon as he returned home he wrote what he played in a diary so he never repeated the pieces in subsequent concerts except for major ones expected by his fans. He thoroughly had studied the language, composition, as well as the technical aspects; So ANYONE criticising him WILL HAVE TO BE LESS KNOWLEDGEABLE & IT IS TRUE ESPECIALLY OF CRITICS WHO MADE FOOLS OF THEMSELVES WITH THEIR SO CALLED OBSERVATIONS ABOUT SPONTANEITY LACKING, PRACTISED ETC. THE FACT IS PRACTICE MAKES IT PERFECT & WITH A GENIUS OF THE TALENTS OF LGJ THESE FACTORS DO NOT ARISE IN MY OPINION. He made sure the SANGATIS BOTH FITTED IN & ENLIGHTENED THE LISTENER WHILE DOING JUSTICE TO THE COMPOSER'S INTENT. He never split the composition inapproptiately which cannot be said of even many LEADING VIDWANS .
NERAVAL is considered to be the Hall mark of critical ability+knowledge which separates the proverbial Men from the Boys. MOST artists choose Neraval arbitrarily as a prelude to launching on "Kalpana Swarams"-mostly pre-planned-. In my opinion M.S., G.N.B., & M.M.I.,were the real GIANTS IN THIS AREA. M.S. with her Bhakthi+ melody orientation moved the audience emotionally. GNB chose his place& moment depending on his mood pretty much as he could do pretty much anything. Most of the time it would be laya related as a broad brush. MMI being swara based chose emotionally fit places like Hitamu mata or KALINIL CHILAMBU (laya& descriptive places). AN EXAMPLE: In VASUDEVAYANI for example GNB chose many places for niraval but MMI chose BAGUMEERA & raised the whole presentation to an exstatic level. Some times he did not render Kalpana swarams at all! LGJ being a creative genius was at home with ANY ASPECT OR APPROACH & chose his Neravals mostly APPROPRIATELY pegging it very closely to the COMPOSITION, COMPOSER, & EDUCATING THE LISTENER BEST. In my opinion though he was playing the violin LGJ actually rendered the compositions PERFECTLY & those who knew the Language as well as the context could learn the subtelities as well as the PROPER WAY to render the compositions of the great composers.
The next sub topic is Kalpanaswarams. In my mind GNB& MMI ARE UNEQUALLED IN THIS AREA. LGJ while he could play or do anything chose the NERAVAL SPOT CAREFULLY and his kalpanaswarams flowed NATURALLY & BEAUTIFULLY as he used the natural beauty & perfection of the violin sounds. He chose the kritis carefully so he could expound on ALL THREE ASPECTS PERFECTLY. This was true of Flute Mali also though he succeeded in creating the illusion of being totally spontaneous etc.This is why I say any critic who dares to expose their ignorance by making hackneyed old cliches type comments while appearing to be EXPERTS should be taken to task.
I welcome comments, criticisms etc as I feel LGJ is the first Artist who has provided us with an opportunity to UNDERSTAND THE GENIUS & GREATNESS OF THE GOLDEN AGE BY ANALYSIS & STUDY. VKV

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 05 Dec 2013, 04:16

Dear Sri VKV,

Your postings on Sri Lalgudi can be combined very effectively with the book written by Lakshmi Devnath.This can be very effectively done by a collaborative effort.
Most Rasikas generally are unaware of the high musicianship of Sri Lalgudi. The Violin was considered a fiddle until Sri Lalgudi brought it to a higher plane .This effort was augmented by Sri TNK and MSG.Earlier you pointed out that Sri TNK who provided accompaniment to seniors such as ARI,SSI was contented to play a secondary role.
In fact Sri Semmangudi was accompanied by Sri TNK in the early concerts say 1948 - 65 period.It looks as though Sri Semmangudi preferred SriTNK for violin in his concerts.
Later Sri Lalgudi and MSG have accompanied Sri SSI at Music Academy.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 05 Dec 2013, 06:34

Dear hnbhagavan,
My hope is to EXPAND the knowledge base about LGJ who I consider to be a MONUMENTAL & NON-COMPARABLE CONTRIBUTOR TO OUR CULTURE& MUSIC. Lakshmi Devanath has written a brilliant book with expertise, knowledge, and proper order. I want to follow it & hopefully with contributions from everyone we can all feel proud that we lived & some of us knew a GENUINE GIANT. VKV :ymapplause:

matterwaves · Post by **matterwaves** » 06 Dec 2013, 15:48

Dear all,
A very educating experience reading through all your comments. I would love to buy the book that has spawned all this. Checked online- there is no mention of CD. Have any of you bought this book through amazon and flipkart? Does it come with the CD that everybody is talking about- because it is not mentioned in the listings in these sites and their Customer Care is not able to give me a satisfactory answer

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 06 Dec 2013, 21:48

The book was sold when GJR/VIJI were on tour recently in N.A. I will write LAKSHMI DEVNATH & FIND OUT HOW TO GET IT. I KNOW THERE IS A LGJ TYPE WEBSITE THAT ACCEPTS PAY PAL FOR PAYMENT. It is going to be released in CLEVELAND FESTIVAL ON GOOD FRIDAY SATURDAY AFTERNOON & I AM SURE IT WILL BE AVAILABLE FOR SURE THEN.
YES it comes with a SPECIAL CD with excerpts of LGJ CONCERT RECORDINGS- NOT FULL CONCERTS- BUT REFERENCED TO SPECIFIC RELEVENT PLACES IN THE BOOKW/NOTES- TO EXPLAIN . I am in the process of consolidating the many full concerts in a Hard disc. Hope to be done soon & will be happy to share them with any one interested. I can copy them to pen drives or hard drives only. VKV

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 06 Dec 2013, 22:16

The book by Lakshmi Devnath book on Lalgudi Jayaraman is available in http://www.tapasstheertham.com/
Payment by credit card is accepted.

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 07 Dec 2013, 11:05

Chennai forunites and visiting Chennai forunites,
Reminding about the scheduled Music Academy Conference 2013-"21.12.13 – Saturday
Lecdem 1 8:05 – 8:50 Smt. Lalgudi Vijayalakshmi Sri Lalgudi Jayaraman’s Music & His compositions"
Please attend and report for the benefit of all forunites unable to attend.
munirao2001

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 08 Dec 2013, 04:54

LGJ& LAYAM: A POOR ATTEMPT TO DESCRIBE HIS MASTERY & GENIUS.
I am hoping to generate a DETAILED ANALYSIS FROM EXPERTS ON THIS FORUM. I am just INITIATING THE DISCUSSION to give a HISTORICAL BACKGROUND & BASIS.
TO QUOTE L.D. "One of Lalgudi's favourite hobbies was solving mathematical puzzles. His ability to decipher the laya intricasies embedded in complex pallavis and his pechant for infusing intriguing rythmic patterns into his compositions was probably a musical extension of this affinity". I have spent quite a bit of time with him informing ABOUT Magic Squares, Chess Openings like King& Queen's Gambit, Magic Squares,Ramanujan's INCREDIBLE NUMBER THEORY STUFF etc & he could have EASILY taken to Mathematics if he so desired.....
Anyways JAN 2 1950 the WORLD would come to know of HIS "BRAHMA LAYAM" as none other than PMI told his son. When Alathoor bros ascended the platform at Goden rock wondering how this youngster would cope with their Laya based approach. When they sang the Pallavi in Tisra Rupakam in Kanda Nadai without explicitly revealing the laya pattern they were shocked how easily LGJ negotiated it. Subsequently AFTER several tests LGJ hardly twenty was crowned as the king of Laya! One has to read how brilliantly & eloquently L.D. HAS DESCRIBED lgj's conquest of Simhanandanam quoting Suswaram Tiruvalangadu Sundaresa Iyer's son who said "I for a fact know that my father staunchly refused to attempt the SIMHANANANDANAM. MUSIRI the doyen after watching the ease with which LGJ MATCHED a T.R.S.Pallavi said: " Jayaraman's musical intution and grasp are amazing. If I were in Jayaraman's place I would have only have two options- to run away from the stage carrying my violin or to run away faster leaving my violin behind". I will finish with a recollection from SEM DECADES AFTER DEC 1954 SHANMARGA PALLAVI IN 32 KALAIS OF WHAT CHITTOOR SUBRAMANIA PILLAI that year's S.K. (& THE BIGGEST EXPERT WHO ALWAYS SANG WITH A FULL BENCH- I was lucky to hear SOMU EXPLAIN to a real DUMB BELL like me about what he did in a concert-declared : "Hillary's conquest of Mount Everest is nothing before this herculean acheivement of Mudicondan. What astounded me as much was that young Lalgudi Jayaraman was able to reproduce flawlessly that scholarly display!" . Of course this description is from L.D. & IF YOU READ JUST THIS PART OF HER BOOK one would realise SHE DESERVES AN AWARD for just this section! I WILL STOP AS IT IS SACRILEGE for me to write anything after giants have spoken. CSM at the end of a concert introduced me to Chittoor saying I was an ardent rasika who knew music too I JUST FELL DOWN & DID SHASTANGA NAMASKARAM & DID NOT SAY A WORD....
I am in the same position here also. I request others to ENLIGHTEN other Rasikas with specific instances & recollections. [-x :-@ :-ss :ymapplause: VKV

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 08 Dec 2013, 08:50

https://archive.org/details/Somu-Mohana
somu-lalgudi-raghu

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 08 Dec 2013, 09:10

I request others to ENLIGHTEN other Rasikas with specific instances & recollections

https://archive.org/details/VkvSpeaksSomu-
There we go -- cacm's words etched in (mp3)stone , in the carnatic hall of fame :ymapplause:

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 08 Dec 2013, 09:23

Wow! Thank you, Varsha-ji. Etched in history indeed.
I had the pleasure of talking to Sri VKV on the phone for over 2 hours yesterday on the topic of Madurai Somu and Lalgudi!

Thanks for posting this and the mohanam RTP!

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 08 Dec 2013, 11:44

Dear Varshaji, YOU have proved to me in just your 2 minute exerpt how powerful MEMORIES are especially when WE have been fortunate to have interacted & listened to such GREATS! Whether we have been able to do justice to them or not at least in our own minds it is etched in stone as you have said. I CANNOT THANK YOU ENOUGH to bring to attention-especially in this section- MOSTLY GREAT THINGS WE CAN BE PROUD OF. I have noticed that when you talk or write about LGJ GOOD THINGS HAPPEN....VKV

alpajnani · Post by **alpajnani** » 08 Dec 2013, 19:20

varsha wrote: https://archive.org/details/VkvSpeaksSomu-
There we go -- cacm's words etched in (mp3)stone , in the carnatic hall of fame :ymapplause:

Beautifully said, VKV-sir (as always!!) :ymapplause:

Dear VKV-sir or Varsha-ji,
Would be great if we could know which specific concert is being referred to here (all of Somu's concerts are great - but was wondering if a version of the one being referred to here was available anywhere online).

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 08 Dec 2013, 21:13

My best guess
Possibly this truncated concert ...
01 - RTP - Thodi..02 - Muruganai Ninainthurughi - Shanmukhapriya - $$$...03 - Aadi Aadi Vandu - Ragamaligai - $$$..04 - Ayiram Naam Thannil - Ragamaligai - $$$
I could locate the " vkv track " only from clippings stored only for such occasions:)
Maybe I can get vkv to remember if I upload it - It has a brilliant exchange between Somu the Guru and Kazhugumalai Kandaswamy the disciple .
Somu - Chandru ... Another mind boggling combination

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 09 Dec 2013, 00:04

I have so many SOMUS stored in VARIOUS PLACES I will have to search for it. I had uploaded some of them when Sangethapriya started but don't remember if it is there. I will look for it & let everyone know when I find it. I am tied with many different requests& projects. So pl be patient. VKV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 11 Dec 2013, 02:51

We have now finally arrived at a stage where we can discuss LGJ'S SOLO VIOLIN CONCERTS :
This is where we can discern his ORIGINAL Approaches, Ideas, as well as his UNIQUE CONTRIBUTUIONS though he has contributed in any area he touched. AGAIN I am closely following what Lakshmi Devanath has elucidated so clearly& lucidly in her book.
T.V.Gopalakrishnan (prime disciple of Chembai the doyen) has said of Gopla Iyer that he was one of the greatest minds he has interacted with. He was given the BEST possible material and created a PHENOMENON out of it. LGJ himself has said that rather than his choosing the violin it was more appropriate to say that Violin chose him. Quoting Gopla Iyer:" Along with the music of my forefathers, I have heard the music of Tirukodikaval Krishna Iyer , Malaikottai Govindaswami Pillai, Semmangudi Narayanaswami,- later Chowdiah and Kumbakonam Rajamanikkam Pillai. I have incorporated the best aspects of their playing and passed it on to Jayaraman". Thus LGJ COMBINED HIS GENIUS ON BOTH Kalpitha & Manodharma Aspects by STUDYING& EXAMINING THE INHERITANCE ON THE ONE SIDE FROM THYAGABRAHMAM himself and the Best Violin Practicisioners on the other side. He created the ILLUSION of listening to VOCAL MUSIC (He was sure it was the ideal) which was ENHANCED by his deep understanding of the Composition, Language as well the Technical Aspects AND THE ABILITY TO EXECUTE RARELY SEEN BEFORE HIM ON AN INSTRUMENT.
Consequently when his father gave him the go-ahead in 1958 saying:"Create something original, a new style that reflects the BEST of all others" LGJ ENTHUSIASTICALLY PROCEEDED to do not just that but enhanced it with what can be only be described as the LALGUDI BHANI which I am CONVINCED HAS USHERED IN THE "LALGUDI SAHAPTHAM". He went from triumph to Glory and INVENTED many combinations of presenting Carnatic Music in VARIOUS FORMS that has resulted in the LALGUDI SAHAPTHAM. When his SOLOS hit the scene like Tornadoes the only Explanation from the Experts & Laymen alike was that it was due to the Lalgudi Bhani. To quote from L.D.'S BOOK (P 157) - "At the end of long discussions , they drawled, "Adu Lalgudi Bhani sir"(That is the Lalgudi Bhani Sir). LGJ himself has said:"My BANI reflected the influence of various musical styles I had ben exposed to since my younger days- the kuzhaivu of TNR, the jarus of Bismillah Khan, the suddha swarams of Mazhavarayanendal Subbarama Bhagavathar)after whom MMI PATTERNED his Kalpana swara renderings), the poruttams& intellectual approach of G.N.B." However his style was DISTINCTIVE and stood out from those LGJ SAID influenced & inspired him. He DID NOT imitate them.....
His concerts typically started with Varnams and there were two distinct parts.He followed the Ariyakudi format mostly and his lighter selections which included a Thillana were EQUALLY popular. His choices of krithis included THYAGARAJA kritis on which he had spent so much time researching as well as rare ones. He also included his father's compositions as well as those refernced to Lalgudi. Murugan based pieces were very prominent of his father's and his special feelings ECHOING that of most Tamilians.
I will stop here & request others to express their views. VKV

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 12 Dec 2013, 10:50

VKV Sir,
In my last meeting with Lalgudi mama, GJR Krihnan also present, we were discussing the Simhanandana RTP. Lalgudi mama pointed out that AIR was broadcasting the programme, live (those days live concerts broadcast were more) and all the more challenging. Successful demonstration lead to the acceptance of all the pandita of his laya mastery, unreservedly.
munirao2001

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 12 Dec 2013, 11:29

TRUE! Thanks for sharing your interesting discussion with LGJ. I never had the COURAGE to discuss it myself knowing my level of ignorance. VKV

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 12 Dec 2013, 23:14

Dear Cacm,

Sri GNB,Neduniri,Voletti were among the first vidwans who evaluated Sri Lalgudi's compositions and included them in the concerts.I should also mention Sri Maharajapuram Santanam and Sri TR Subramanyam.But most of the present day musicians do not include his compositions in the concerts.There are a few exceptions.I should also mention that Smt MLV used to sing Tillanas composed by Lalgudi.Smt Sudha Raghunathan ,Mandolin Srinivas and RaGa sisters also include them in their concerts.
I have not seen Sanjay/TNK/Malladi sing his compositions.
Sri Lalgudi is not alone in this.This has been the case with Sri MDR compositions.Sri KVN was among the first to include MDR compositions in his concerts.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 13 Dec 2013, 01:40

The MORE DISAPPOINTING CASE IS PRACTICALLY NO ONE RENDERS EITHER GNB'S OR MDR'S COMPOSITIONS.THIS IS HOW QUICKLY HISTORY IS FORGOTTEN TO THE POINT MANY MUSICIANS DO NOT EVEN KNOW WHO PRECEDED THEM....VKV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 13 Dec 2013, 11:07

[update][/update]PARIVARDHINI TV WEBCAST ABOUT LGJ--SUJATHA VIJAYARAGHAVAN & S.P.RAMH PRESENTATIONS AT SASTRY HALL TODAY IN THE LEC DEM MELA.
First ALL OF US SHOULD THANK THE WEB CAST PRESENTERS FOR GIVING US THIS EXCELLENT INSIGHTS INTO THE GENIUS OF LGJ. NEXT I URGE EVERYONE who has read any of the postings here to PLEASE SOMEHOW SEE this EXCELLENT PRESENTATION by Sujatha V & S.P.RAMH WHICH EXPLAINS so many of the CREATIVITY, TALENTS, AND UNIQUNESS OF LGJ & HIS ACHEIVEMENTS.....
I will discuss the various aspects later in detail but it is CLEAR & OBVIOUS THAT THE MANDU THILLANA ALONE HAS MADE LGJ TO BE REMEMBERED FOR EVER AS LONG AS CARNATIC MUSIC EXISTS AS ONE OF THE GREATEST CONTRIBUTORS.HE WILL BE A STAR IN THE FIRMAMENT FOR EVER....VKV :-BD :ymapplause:

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 14 Dec 2013, 11:24

cacm wrote:The MORE DISAPPOINTING CASE IS PRACTICALLY NO ONE RENDERS EITHER GNB'S OR MDR'S COMPOSITIONS.THIS IS HOW QUICKLY HISTORY IS FORGOTTEN TO THE POINT MANY MUSICIANS DO NOT EVEN KNOW WHO PRECEDED THEM....VKV

GNB Composition is indeed sung sir , but MDR definitely a lot less .

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 14 Dec 2013, 11:48

Which leading artists sing GNB'S COMPOSITIONS EXCEPT NALILAKANTHI ONE ETC on somewhat frequent basis? I am curious to know. VKV

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 14 Dec 2013, 12:22

shri Vkv
I am just making a comparison between the two. If u trace a bit of my reviews and also others you can see a lot of GNB compositons touched

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 14 Dec 2013, 15:10

Which leading artists sing GNB'S COMPOSITIONS EXCEPT NALILAKANTHI ONE ETC on somewhat frequent basis? I am curious to know

From a quick review of recordings available - not exhaustive ...
ambOruha pAdamE - varNa - ranjani - revati krishna,+ Shertalai , Barama - hamsanadham - GNB - Manda Sudha Rani ,entomoralida--kaNadA-GNB-Sriperumbudur nagesh , Karimukha Varada - Nata - GNB-C - AK+KSG , Mamakulesvaram - Todi - GNB-C- Vijayalakshmi Subramaniam , Marakoti Sundari - Bahudari - (GNB-C)- Blore Shankar, nAkabhAya varamosagi - nATTakurinji - GNB -Alapuzhai venkatesan+G.Srikanth , Nalinakanthimatim - Nalinakanthi - ( GNB-C) -Santhanam , Nee Barama - Hamsanadam - (GNB-C) - Manda ,Nee Padame Gati - Nalinakanti - ( GNB-C) - Ganesh Kumaresh+Pudukode+TRS+TVS+U Srinivas , Needayarada - Andolika - GNB-C - DKJ+Kamala Thyagarajan+Parasala ,Nidayakalguna - Shanmukhapriya - GNB-C - TRS+Vasuda Ravi , Ninnuvina - Reethigowla - GNB-C - Arundhati Sircar Parama Pavani - Atana - GNB-C - Ganesh Kumaresh +Prema Rengarajan, Paramakripa - Yadukula Khamboji - GNB-C - AK Paramukha - Kanada - GNB-C - Adyar Jayaraman+Blore Shankar+ M.Narmada ,Ranjani Niranjani - Ranjani - (GNB-C) - Ganesh Kumaresh+Prema Rengarajan+TMT +TRS+U Srinivas , Samana Rahithe - Sarangatharangini - GNB-C - Manda+TVS, saraswathi namostute-saraswathi-GNB -M.Narmada , Shri Saraswathi - Athana - (GNB-C) - RKS , Sivananda - Kamavardhini - (GNB-C) - TRS , SriChakra Raja - Sivsakthi - ( GNB-C )-Gayatri+Manda +Santhanam , Thamasimika - Abhogi - ( GNB-C ) - OST , Unnadiye - Bahudari - (GNB-C) - TRS Varavallabha Ramana - Hamsadhwani - GNB-C - N Ramani +S Vairamanaglam +U Srinivas

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 16 Dec 2013, 04:22

Dear Sri Varsha, THANKS for the GNB LIST. I am sorry I did not express properly what I wanted to. While the list sounds long & impressive even if you take one Madras Season say with close to 1000 concerts close to 10 compositions in each probably GNB' Compositions will be rendered say 50 times. This amounts to one out of 200 which percentage wise to ME is at the noise level.
I got involved & interested in this area DUE to my involvement with the Late GREAT S.RAJAM when he tried to bring out the Koteeswara Iyer Kanda Ganamudham- the 72 mela kartha ragas compositions- & He was approached to help out to popularise a similar effort by D.Pattammal. It BROKE my heart that we let SUCH GREATNESS- LIKE SOMU'S GENIUS- SLIP BY EASILY WITHOUT EVEN TRYING. I tried to organise an effort to bring to the attention of the rasikas by bringing to FOCUS one composer per month for example THOORAN, DR.RUKMINI RAMANI, AMBUJAM KRISHNA AND SEVERAL OTHER EMINENT COMPOSERS WHO HAVE LIVED IN OUR MIDST. Of course it did not succeed similar to another effort to organise functions based on Birthdays of SOMU, T.K.RANGACHARY ETC.All my efforts are inspired by Swami Vivekananda's Observation that a culture or country that does not honour or remember its past has no future...I APPLAUD RAVI KIRAN for BRINGING OUT THE GREATNESS OF OOTHUKADU KAVI....
This is one of the reasons I consider MOST- NOT ALL- CRITICS AS WELL AS TODAY'S SABHA ORGANISERS USELESS EXCEPT PROVIDING GOOD TIFFIN ETC. I wish some one would start a section on what critics should be doing,what their QUALIFICATIONS should be etc......I am NOT starting it because ITS OBVIOUS I AM BIASSED & NOT FIT TO DO IT....VKV

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 16 Dec 2013, 15:13

VKV Sir,

On the criticism in carnatic music, my article was published in the Samudhra magazine. I am reproducing the article for your perusal.

The quintessential critique – the Critic
This article traces the role of the critics in promoting Indian performing arts, in particular Carnatic music (historical perspectives, current context and future trends)
The richness of Indian Classical music is derived and centered on two sets of values- aesthetic quality and niche appeal. Primary goal of classical music is spiritual experience and to up lift In the modern times, the secondary goal is pure entertainment, with or without the primary goal. Only limited percentage of listeners/rasikas enjoy the aesthetic values with out any aid or support. The role of the critic is more important here as an aid or support to the promotion and appreciation of music.
Critic and the role
Critic is an individual, who takes up the challenge willingly to aid or support the listeners/readers to fully reflect, understand, appreciate, enjoy and promote the cause of music. The critic communicates with the readers, who have already experienced the performance and also the larger population, who did not experience the performance, in a direct manner. The critic has the twin tasks of understanding and appreciating the music of the artists himself and creatively recreating, through the judicious and imaginative usage of choicest of words, the musical listening experience to the reader.
A Critic, internalizing the higher ideals, values and goals in classical music, with firm grounding in both the theory and practice of music and with the command of the knowledge, language, expressions and effect, dons various roles, of his choice and quality.
A critic has to assume the responsibility and accountability of being the true reflector of original composer and the performer to the listeners; he judges and delivers judgment on the performance and the performer; he is a good interpreter bringing clarity on the values of music of the performer; is an entertainer, who delivers real listening experience, very interestingly and arrestingly; is a propagandist for higher values in music and to the meritorious and deserving performer; is a motivator and charmer and finally a researcher, guide and mentor. Thus a critic backed by accurate knowledge, trust, unconditioned mind, free from bias, prejudice, mutual respect and support established firmly between the performer, himself and the listener/rasika is a favourable situation for the art.
Historical Perspectives
Historically, the critic assumed the role of a philosopher, with clear leanings towards the religious values, dear to him/her. Exhibition of their talents in the chosen language, in writing, took a very important role. The criticisms were mostly judgmental, keeping judicious balance between both the aspects of theory and practice of music. The communication mostly consisted of self opinion and review or criticism of their work, were rejected. Some of the critics resorted to motivated propaganda, in a subtle manner. In the absence of clear rules, tools and the methodology, the criticisms were literary. The performers, rarely, respected the critics. The readers/listeners became prejudiced, easily.
Current context
With the development of modern methodology in musicology, technology, publishing, higher education, promotional needs of the performer and the publisher, increase in opportunities for performing, positive attempt at corrective actions by the performer, critic and the publishers, presently, we have many talented critics, with high reputation and standing.

On the flip side existence of multiple publications has resulted in the publishers/editors getting tempted to enlist/enroll many critics, who are not well qualified or talented, but can meet the editorial challenges and requirements, cleverly. This has resulted in critics restricting their roles to being reviewers or reporters. With the domination of visual media over the print media, the listeners and readers have started ignoring or not taking the criticisms in print, seriously. Editors of the few publications, who continue to extend support to music criticism, hardly get any feed back.
Future Trends
With the rapid development in communication and publishing in the present day and in the near future, there will be both the dangers of erosion of higher ideology and values in criticism and entry of all the individuals with urge to communicate and publish, without responsibility and accountability. Revenue maximization will be the top most priority. There is the real danger of trivialization, affecting the performers, critics and the listeners/readers. Art of criticism will take new methods of visual expressions and communications, more than the words. The intrinsic quality of music, will suffer. With diminishing support for the criticism columns by the publishers
of the print media, Critics will be forced to submit ‘breaking news’ reports rather than the reviews and criticisms. State is likely to intervene more frequently to bring controls. Controls, even though well intended, are likely to be abused.
On the optimistic side though the need for corrective actions are recognized and being discussed. The dialogue has been started. With commitment, spirited and active participation, dedication to the cause of music, better understanding and clarity of actions and results are expected, soon.
Submitted by:
Sandhyavandanam Madhva Muni Rao
Son & Disciple of Sandhyavandanam Srinivasa Rao

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 16 Dec 2013, 23:27

Dear Sri Muni Rao,
YOU are both knowledeable & have the expertise. Why don't you start a section starting with your article which we can discuss with respect to various artists we read about from the critics reviews. For example in my opinion your own father suffered from lack of PROPER COVERAGE in Madras press when he was at his peak. KVN used to say how good he was & I agree because I had attended his concerts.I AM NOT FOLLOWING TODAY'S CRITICS AT ALL & MAY BE OTHERS CAN EXPRESS THEIR VIEWS ETC. VKV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 18 Dec 2013, 01:59

[update][/update]LGJ'S CAREER AS A VIOLINIST IN CARNATIC MUSIC
LGJ has played so many different roles in different areas here I intend ONLY examine his contributions, innovations and impacts on the carnatic music of twentieth century in this area here. I hope to gradually examine all the areas he has impacted on a continuing fashion..
Briefy even in this category he has innovatively participated as: 1) Accompanist in concerts he was considered to be a Pakkavadyam 2) Solo Violinist playing alone 3) Main Violinist in conjunction with one(Srimathi in the Concerts with PMI ALL TIME GREAT CONCERTS, Later on with the GJR Krishnan) or with both GJR & VIJI.
4) As an EQUAL with others like Ramani & Venkataraman in VVV or as he did in his USA&CANADA CONCERTS IN '71 AGAIN AS EQUAL WITH Ramani in LGJ'S PERFORMANCES OVER THE JUGULBANDHI STYLE.
1) It is generally conceded that he not only creatively answered the main artist but with PRACTICALLY EVERY MAJOR ARTIST OF THE CALIBRE OF GNB, MMI, ALATHUR BROS HE MADE SUGGESTIONS to enhance& improve the presentations etc not to mention artists from Andhra like Nedanuri or Voletti benifitted from his accompanying & suggestions. TNS with all his genius is highly indebted to LGJ for the CRUCIAL PUSH he needed for his career to take off. In the case of GNB his constant discussions with GNB (which GNB encouraged) resulted in all of us benifitting with realizations of HOW GREAT KALYANI, THODI, BHAIRAVI among others as ragas can be so unfathomably great. His matching of the Neravals & Kalpana Swaras of MMI singing of the yet unequalled MMI -which MMI being a true Nadha YOGI openly acknowledged & praised AFTER THE VERY FIRST SONG LGJ ACCOMPANIED HIM IN A CONCERT! Alathur Bros after TESTING over the years actually INCORPORATING his suggestions to creatively improve their Pallavis is a TRIUMPH for his CREATIVE & FUNDAMENTAL LAYA AREAS. So in the MANODHARMA AREA he was not only EQUAL but he could IMPROVE ON THE MASTERS! This is why CRITICISMS of critics like SVK who should know BETTER sound not only ameateurish but downright IGNORANT. Just claiming to have sung once in M.A. in sub-junior slot in M.A. or hanging on to the critic's job for lots of years does not cut it! This has been pointed out correctly pointed out by EXPERTS LIKE DR.N.Ramanathan who has SERIOUSLY STUDIED LGJ'S PERFORMANCES OVER THE YEARS.
2), 3), 4) BELONG to a different CATEGORY where we can study BOTH KALPITHA & MANODHARMA ASPECTS OF LGJ IN A PURE FASHION. SO NEXT I will discuss them. In the meanwhile I welcome others to share their expertise& opinions. VKV

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 11 Mar 2015, 13:28

Dear Sri VKV,MKR,
You seem to have discontinued this topic. Sri MKR had promised to share magical moments he had enjoyed with the legend.I hope you will pick up from where you left and continue your writings.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 11 Mar 2015, 14:48

This track created by Guru Karaikudi Mani looks to me to be totally inspired by Lalgudi Jayaraman whom he holds in high esteem...
http://gaana.com/share/titemI86000

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 11 Mar 2015, 15:55

Sri Rsachi,

Thank you for the link.After listening to the track,looks like your observation is correct.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 11 Mar 2015, 19:48

hnbhagavan wrote:Dear Sri VKV,MKR,
You seem to have discontinued this topic. Sri MKR had promised to share magical moments he had enjoyed with the legend.I hope you will pick up from where you left and continue your writings.

I AM SWAMPED BY CLEVELAND. VKV