Sangita Kalanidhi 2015

sirsub11 · Post by **sirsub11** » 23 Jun 2015, 14:43

As a contrast to some pretty ordinary, puerile and ill informed posts on this thread, here is a fine piece of writing by a fine and respected writer and speaker - his proximity to the subject under discussion notwithstanding.

http://thewire.in/2015/06/23/sanjay-sub ... ntLjd.dpuf

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 23 Jun 2015, 15:09

Harimau rants. Sanjay sings. MA recognises him as SK.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 23 Jun 2015, 15:50

Congratulations to Sanjay.

No, I don't agree with the decision, either, but still... congratulations to Sanjay.

I have only been to two of his concerts in the past decade. I enjoyed them both. Better men (or actually women, in this case) than I, come to Chennai in December and arrange their concert diaries around him. I respect their (or her, in this case) point of view. Not only is it a matter of personal taste, but they (she) is vastly better informed and experienced than I. Fair enough.

Just for the record, I do feel that Harimau missed a point (or I missed him making it): N Ravikiran usually gets at least half-decent audience numbers: Sanjay fills halls to capacity and more.

That's just for the record. Whatever the names, there are several such pairs we could take, maybe it was a factor in the decision, maybe it wasn't.

As for these two names: there are years ahead for both of them. My prediction is that next year the award will go to someone of 70-plus, and the following year maybe Ravikiran's turn.

Yes, it is true that the MA will do whatever it wants, according to its leaders and committees. There is actually no reason why it should not.

Harimau rants... but there are names that might have made him steam, or even explode. He may not have nine lives, but thank goodness he has (he tells us) three. They may be needed in the future.

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 23 Jun 2015, 16:34

Hello Nick,

People some how get left out- Say O S Tyagarajan and Vijaya Siva.My feeling is that they should have been recognized with the coveted award by now.
In the past also stalwarts like Sri MDR,Netiyankara Vasudevan got left out.
Given the situation,Chitra Veena Ravikiran will also get.But several instrumentalists like Nagai Muralidharan,M A Sundaresan,Lalgudi GJR Krishnan etc will not fit the award list.However when Karnataka turn comes,Mysore Nagaraj and Manjunath are the only eminent candidates who will sooner or later make it to the award.
I hope when they consider a older person,OS Tyagarajan will get next.

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 23 Jun 2015, 16:46

Is it possible to not perform in Chennai and still be able to get the SK ever? Or is it possible to avoid MA and still get the SK?

Nick if the hindu is bad, have you read TOI or IE ?
One of that comes out without etiding I think..

rupavathi · Post by **rupavathi** » 23 Jun 2015, 16:59

sirsub11 wrote:... some pretty ordinary, puerile and ill informed posts on this thread...

Hurts when your hero is dissed, eh?

Why worry when the supreme oracles of the academy themselves care two hoots for irrelevant stuff like sruthi-shuddham...

sirsub11 · Post by **sirsub11** » 23 Jun 2015, 17:06

i rest my case.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 23 Jun 2015, 18:13

hnbhagavan wrote:Hello Nick,

People some how get left out- Say O S Tyagarajan and Vijaya Siva.My feeling is that they should have been recognized with the coveted award by now.
In the past also stalwarts like Sri MDR,Netiyankara Vasudevan got left out.
Given the situation,Chitra Veena Ravikiran will also get.But several instrumentalists like Nagai Muralidharan,M A Sundaresan,Lalgudi GJR Krishnan etc will not fit the award list.However when Karnataka turn comes,Mysore Nagaraj and Manjunath are the only eminent candidates who will sooner or later make it to the award.
I hope when they consider a older person,OS Tyagarajan will get next.

Sure. I'm just referring to one person who has been left out this year. There will be other years --- and it will probably continue to be true that many fine instrumentalists/accompanists such as the ones you mention may continue to be left out.

ganesh_mourthy wrote:Nick if the hindu is bad, have you read TOI or IE ?
One of that comes out without etiding I think.

I get The Hindu and The New Indian Express every day. The NIE has been gibberish for a long time; The Hindu has been catching up over the past five years. I think they lost a generation of writers, and, more importantly, a generation of sub-editors who used to knock the text into shape and write headlines that made sense.

I will buy The Hindu, regardless, for the concert ads, and also continue with the NIE for a different take on news and affairs. I do not watch TV.

grsastrigal · Post by **grsastrigal** » 23 Jun 2015, 18:56

harimau's feeling is understandable.

But I look at this from another way. Ravikiran is a prodigy. He does not need any award. Like him is Abhishek Raguram. He should not get SK because he is beyond that. He is GREAT. One in a lakh will become a Mali, Ravikiran & Abhishek Raguram.
If MA recognises them, well. Otherwise, no issues.

It is like Shivaji Ganesan has not got National Award - Kamal hassan got handful of National awards. All of us know the former is the best. There was no shivaji before and even today, no one.

But, Sanjay did not have the voice, suitable for CM. The same happened to SSI in his earlier days. Everyone thought SSI was hopeless. But, he, with his sheer sAdhagam made it up and become the youngest SK and the rest is history.
The same way Sanjay, with his voice, not co-operating in his initial career, worked very hard and made his voice suitable to CM. Hard work pays. It paid rich dividends by ways of SK. Many people with a Chartered Accountancy qualification with non-CM voice would have continued practicing CA. But Sanjay did not.

Even some of his present concerts were not upto the 100% standard. But he never lacks energy. He tries to give 120% so at least he gets the required 100% set by the rasikas.

Even, I have my own reservations on Sanjay, being conferred SK. But, If I could think of the above point, he deserves.

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 23 Jun 2015, 19:30

A person told me "Asokavana Nyayam". Someone questioned, "Why was Sita placed in Asokavanam?" The point was that if she was placed in any other place, someone would have questioned it also.
It is a decision by a panel like judgment. At the end of the day, it is an opinion as against someone else's. There is no uniformly agreed criteria for this. Certainly, there are many who deserve and some even canvass perhaps.
That does not mean that we should find all the faults of Sanjay when he was a child and hurl them in the air.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 23 Jun 2015, 20:01

He hurled himself into the music world wholeheartedly, not tethering himself to a desk piled high with files, which the security a well-paying and a steady job brings.

I was thinking too that it was going to be Ravikiran this year, who unquestionably has all the merits one would find in a great musician, composer et al combined.

It's also customary for us to applaud/question the choice every year, knock the Academy as well, while we also think of the title SK as the holy grail

And, how we, collectively reflect the frailties of human nature in that (and also of its strengths)

balu3371 · Post by **balu3371** » 23 Jun 2015, 20:02

Congratulations to Sanjay for getting Sangeetha Kalanidhi for 2015. We have followed Sanjay for the past 20 years in USA and India. He is one of the greatest singer ever. He deserves this award and has earned it in all accounts. Our best wishes again.
Balu and Meena

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 23 Jun 2015, 22:35

arasi wrote:It's also customary for us to applaud/question the choice every year, knock the Academy as well, while we also think of the title SK as the holy grail

That is very true Arasi.

But,..

grsastrigal wrote:harimau's feeling is understandable.

But I look at this from another way. Ravikiran is a prodigy. He does not need any award. Like him is Abhishek Raguram. He should not get SK because he is beyond that. He is GREAT. One in a lakh will become a Mali, Ravikiran & Abhishek Raguram.
If MA recognises them, well. Otherwise, no issues.

!@#$%^&*(

It is like Shivaji Ganesan has not got National Award - Kamal hassan got handful of National awards. All of us know the former is the best. There was no shivaji before and even today, no one.

@#$%^&*() by 2

Ravikiran and Abhishek Raguram should not get SK. They are beyond that.
End of the argument.

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 23 Jun 2015, 22:39

By the by, Many stated that Sanjay does not have a CM voice.

What is an archetypal CM voice?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 24 Jun 2015, 00:55

g_m,
If one does possess such a voice, and has missed the coming year's award, who will that be, I wonder.I would like to know too about that mysterious quality needed for CM singing...

As for RK and the Sheik, how are we to know whether THEY would like to get the award, or that they simply care two hoots about it?

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 24 Jun 2015, 01:04

When MS was the first recipient of S V Narayanaswamy award, Kumudam wrote that MS has added value to the award (Kamban has written Sita added beauty to the ornaments?). It is fitting that the SK award goes with the name of MS.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 24 Jun 2015, 01:18

I don't know if Abishek is beyond SK or not, he is certainly beyond me.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 24 Jun 2015, 01:43

Nick,

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 24 Jun 2015, 03:31

"one in a million."

People may have different reactions to that news.

shankar vaidyanathan · Post by **shankar vaidyanathan** » 24 Jun 2015, 06:32

Congrats to Sanjay on being bestowed the SK honor! Hard work has its rewards. Nobody has done more to popularize Tamil compositions.

I believe that it's a healthy trend to award SK when the vidwans are in their prime.

I hope that the MA will duly recognize prodigies like Ravikiran, Shashank, and, Abishek in upcoming years. I have a prediction that Abishek will eventually be the youngest ever SK...he has age on his side.

I also hope that TMK, Vijay Siva, Priya Sisters, RaGa sisters, Ganesh-Kumaresh, Jayanthi Kumaresh, RKSK, Varadarajan, Embar Kannan, and other deserving vidwans will receive the SK honor and recognition in their lifetime. All of them have collectively made CM the choice of the next generation and so richly deserve the award.

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 24 Jun 2015, 06:38

FAMOUS LAST WORDS!

"In the last issue of Sruti, much was written about his recalcitrant voice and his brilliant efforts to make it what it is today. But , I see Sanjay's voice as a gift. Forget about all the physical possibilities that the voice brings to music. the human layering of the voice is what makes the music. That life that a swara is given coming from his multi- textures expression is a direct connection with every person on the other side of the stage. A frind of mine keeps using the word "sheen" to describe his voice - a shine , a sparkle, you could even call it a "smile" to the music. I can tell you that most of us would die for this quality. "

fAMOUS LAST WORDS!

I am not sure where I should fit the FLW , so one went before the sentence and after the sentence. It is a cycle of debate.

Arasi , me too , waiting to hear the answer for the mysterious CM voice.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 24 Jun 2015, 07:50

ganesh_mourthy wrote: Nick if the hindu is bad, have you read TOI or IE ?
One of that comes out without etiding I think..

Much like ths website.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 24 Jun 2015, 08:02

shankar vaidyanathan wrote:Congrats to Sanjay on being bestowed the SK honor! Hard work has its rewards. Nobody has done more to popularize Tamil compositions.

Oh, really!

I guess Ariyakkudi (despite his great devotion to Thyagaraja) did not set to music the Tiruppavai and try to ft in one in his concerts. Nor did he do anything with Arunachala Kavirayar's Rama Natakam.

I suppose Madurai Mani Iyer totally ignored Papanasam Sivan's krithis.

I surmise people like MSS and DKP had nothing to do with popularising Mahakavi Subrahmanya Bharathi's poems.

Here is a clue: history does not start the day you were born.

I shall hand this to Sanjay: he has latched on to obscure composers of Tamil Nadu and sings their compositions.

In that, he has copied N Ravikiran who is bearing the burden of trying to spread Oothukkadu Venkatasubbier's composition.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 24 Jun 2015, 08:18

Nick H wrote:
Just for the record, I do feel that Harimau missed a point (or I missed him making it): N Ravikiran usually gets at least half-decent audience numbers: Sanjay fills halls to capacity and more.

So do Aruna Sayeeram, Ranjani-Gayathri, Bombay Jayasri, T M Krishna, and for a while, Nithyasri.

So, applying that criterion, how about the Sangeetha Kalanidhi to K J Jesudas? You think the Academy will go for that? Or those who can only be called Sanjay jaalras?

Nick H wrote:
Harimau rants... but there are names that might have made him steam, or even explode. He may not have nine lives, but thank goodness he has (he tells us) three. They may be needed in the future.

Two years back I said that the outrage is only beginning and that as greater outrages are perpetrated we will forget what started it all. We will get inured to this too and will hasten to congratulate the next winner who may not have progressed beyond the geetham stage.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 24 Jun 2015, 08:50

Harimau,
Your posts are like Kashayam. After spending three delightful weeks in an Ayurvedic retreat in Kerala some months ago, my taste for Kashayam only increased

Sanjay= high energy, high popularity, noncontroversial, dedicated musician. His acolyte V Sriram has posted on FB about how he has a slavish fan following who have only got more and more good music from him.
Ravikiran will get it I think latest by 2017. Obvious choice for me this year was SS.

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 24 Jun 2015, 09:17

Rsachi

Wait and watch the attacks when RK gets the award.

It will go like "indeed he plays chitraveena and ... he sings.. but,does he really sing.. is that even singing...

just to warm up for 2017

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 24 Jun 2015, 09:23

Gee, Harimau!

Yes, the Academy was unanimous in choosing Sanjay Subrahmanyan, and we fans are delighted, but jAlrAs is something else, isn't it? More like chamchAs?). You would know better because you are in Chennai (even if you weren't, as bright and knowing as you are, even if you were residing in Siberia, you would know

)

Yes! Ari did, MMI did, Pattamma did and MS did give tamizh compositions new life, true. Among contemporary musicians, Sanjay has done it more than others. He has sung more unknown compositions in other languages as well. In that too he has kept 'that' particular tradition of the greats going.

As for unknown composers, until their compositions are given voice and are heard, they remain in obscurity. It does not mean that they are inferior. The tamizh songs which Sanjay brought to light up to now in MArgazhi MahA Utsavam are uniformly beautiful.

If I go about with the attitude that a tODi has been played by Rajaratnam Pillai, given life by all stalwarts of the past and I don't want to hear it again from some modern day singer, then I can spend my days listening only to old gold on tape and switch off about its existence otherwise. Well, I'm not prepared to do it, and it seems as if I am not alone in this, and you hear that collective sigh of relief, I hope

About the obscure composers: they all can't be the trinity and yet, they have left behind a few gems each.You are much younger to me. Who knows? You may live to see that a composition or two of mine gaining popularity long after my time

I am not forcing my taste upon you. All of you who consider only the old to be gold, I'm sure are mindful about how the old music is going to continue living. One: by preserving it in a pristine condition and handing it over to the young. 2: Also by keeping it dynamic so that the present generation can be drawn into it. In that sense, Sanjay is just the right fit

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 24 Jun 2015, 10:05

Kashayam? or oomatthampoo juice? (Oomathampoo makes the consumer mad - comes from unmattha)

thanjavooran · Post by **thanjavooran** » 24 Jun 2015, 10:07

We have vent our feelings and recorded our views. I feel we do not further put the would be SK designate in a delicate / embarrassing position. Let us all wish him good luck to serve CM field with extra strength. This is my humble opinion. This was the case last year too.
Thanjavooran
24 06 2015

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 24 Jun 2015, 10:28

Thanjavooran

That is gumption. I am with you. Some like SS greatly. Some find a few faults. Definitely he is not average and others have not been rejected.

thaaye · Post by **thaaye** » 24 Jun 2015, 11:28

Rsachi wrote: His acolyte V Sriram

True, the eulogizing writer/historian. SS must have known long back the benefits of having a writer around like erstwhile kings did (or were they comedians?)

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 24 Jun 2015, 11:30

I wonder whether the reactions when SSI, Musiri, etc. got SK are available.

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 24 Jun 2015, 11:34

What SK may not be about:
1. The size of audience for the performance.
2. Popularising Tamizh Kritis (new kritis, yes; SK is not about Tamizh).
3. Composer-singer
4. Popular vote
5. Choice such that no one will find fault
6. Age
7. Teething troubles of the singer in initial years

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 24 Jun 2015, 11:41

Harimau
If u are building a case in saying that musicians like VV Subramaniam , OST and to an extent Mannargudi easwaran are getting passed and sanjay getting it before- then I see immensely see your point.

I personally feel atleast three musicians like ravikiran, sanjay and vijay siva are nearly in the same bracket it is just very minimal difference . Of course there will be 4 years difference and they have to wait and few of them are going to cross 50 for sure

. They would not fall in the bracket of below 47 . sanjay popularity is the main tilting favour - I personally feel the order between his peers could have been bit juxtaposed but that is ok- but by passing few jambhavans like VVS , OST and Easwaran etc not ok to me.

Having said that Sanjay has taken immense effort along with an ecosystem of genuine fans and jalras . The blogs, you tube clips, twitter and his own decicsion not to even sing one concert in a marriage concert (That is exemplary) - if a musician sings and only sings it matters and that coupled with huge support of fans was clearly a matchwinner for Sanjay then occasional or frequent shruthi/ layam lapse.

Having said that it looks there is a huge backend gumbal ranging from insider of MA inclusive of V sriram and the writeups in the hindu all done to push sanjay in the league of below 47 age group of musicians who got SK. While SK to SSI at the age of 39 way back in 1947 was simply understandable- who else was there with so less count of musicians - but with this many crowd of so many senior accomplished musicians - I personally feel there could have been few years wait state .

All musicians have to learn the art of marketing from sanjay and he does that in style - light years ahead . Everything excepting that one caustic quality of grabbing all posts in sangeetham.com without offering an iota of explanation and shutting down the site - one has to learn from Sanjay.

Having said that in the historic past musicians like SSI have dominated their say in MA post getting SK and partly disrupted the fair working of MA in 80's and pushed his list to SK- depriving atleast two rock solid vidwan/vidushi who did not get SK . I wish such a thing does not happen with Sanjay and his insiders who are there in MA and I am keeping my fingers are crossed.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 24 Jun 2015, 11:59

The committee was unanimous...

They always are, aren't they? Or... taking a sample of the last two years, it seems that they are "always" unanimous.

I have no idea how big that committee is, but lets say twenty. What are the chances of twenty, or even ten, people arriving at the item-number-one-today-is-this-year's-sk meeting, all with just one name on their minds and tongues? Or, if they did, how much lobbbying and background discussion it took to make that happen. The final vote may have been unanimous: how much work did it take to bring that about?

This is not about Sanjay, or necessarily even about the MA and the SK: it is about committees and how they work, and about PR people, and how they work and represent things. No such organisation ever puts out a press release stating that, after acrimonious argument and minor injuries, a unanimous vote was passed

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 24 Jun 2015, 12:02

Great point Nick - the same unanimous was used for even sudha and i recollect you pointing out then. Unanimous means "we all disagree inside but have one view point outside ".

devan · Post by **devan** » 24 Jun 2015, 15:10

Rajesh you guessed the correct person.sriram.the man behind and front of sk.so much for fairness.

grsastrigal · Post by **grsastrigal** » 24 Jun 2015, 15:20

Today, The Hindu, Tamil edition, there is an article on SS and his award. End of the report two questions raised ?

Why SS has not performed in Tiruvaiyaru Utsavam ?
Why has he not accompanies a female artist ?

Though, it is not connected to SK, very interesting questions ? Shall we say, SS is the first recipient of SK award without attending T.Utsavam even a single year ?

Female artist- I think many yesteryear artists did not wish to be accompanied by female artists... No qualms about that

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 24 Jun 2015, 15:33

Long back, Ranjani or Gayathri accompanied him.

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 24 Jun 2015, 15:35

Re. unanimity, if many names are discussed and the final choice is carried without any express dissent, would it be unanimous or not? It is to confirm the usage and nothing to do with the process at MA which is hidden from us.

kolenidhi · Post by **kolenidhi** » 24 Jun 2015, 16:20

rajeshnat wrote:Having said that it looks there is a huge backend gumbal ranging from insider of MA inclusive of V sriram and the writeups in the hindu all done to push sanjay in the league of below 47 age group of musicians who got SK. While SK to SSI at the age of 39 way back in 1947 was simply understandable- who else was there with so less count of musicians

When Papanasam Sivan made the SK speech, he jokingly said that he was chosen that year as they found none else, the big guns simply left letting PS and daughter alone after the event. PS was seen waiting for a bus at the bus stand near the academy.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 24 Jun 2015, 17:46

rajeshnat wrote:I personally feel atleast three musicians like ravikiran, sanjay and vijay siva are nearly in the same bracket

Huh ?!

Always_Evolving · Post by **Always_Evolving** » 24 Jun 2015, 17:51

Rajeshnat wrote:

"I personally feel atleast three musicians like ravikiran, sanjay and vijay siva are nearly in the same bracket it is just very minimal difference . …"

What?! It appears that the writer cannot tell apart a good hardworking singer from a genius, the quality and quantity of whose musical output is almost unmatched in history (of ANY music).

Identifying ragas in the MA at two
singing vocal concerts with stalwart accompanists since age five
instrumental precision, virtuosity in all departments be it alapana, thanam, laya
Superb on-the-spot pallavis
700+ compositions that are brilliant integral works
several operatic works performed by leading Natya artists
an intellectual who can present deeply insightful lecture-demo on practically any CM topic
research and presentation of OVKs work in completely new light

Ravikiran strides like a colossus in his generation. I have no idea about the criteria that MA uses for selection but every time they offer it in this spirit of king making, they dilute the relevance of this award. Making this about under-50, over-47, or whatever baffles me.

-Radhika Rammohan

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 24 Jun 2015, 19:24

If...
The Academy gives five SKs each year--
Every instrument counted--
And...
If the tambura players feel overlooked--
We at Rasikas will raise a storm--
And ridicule every award given...

We need to host a roast every time--
Beating every political party at that
Then music goes hiding, when we
Bash every issue to death--until for sure
Another bit of news occupies us!

Safe are those who aren't around us--
Srinivas, you are fine with angels up there...
As rasikAs think they rule the world and cry
'Let's have better music!' bullying and belly-aching

It's a business world, buy, sell, bet, beat--
This better be no place for mirth and music
Where consumers put on their martial attire
And fight, as in a joust or a boxing match--

And here I am, wondering how many concerts
An SK gives in a season, how many I can hear...

'Go to your corner and repeat the lord's name,
Till your time comes old bag!', someone says--
In a place where they believe in freedom
Of speech and abuse in the same breath!

Well, each to his/her way, and let me go
minding my business and listening to music...

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 24 Jun 2015, 21:23

Always_Evolving wrote:
Identifying ragas in the MA at two
singing vocal concerts with stalwart accompanists since age five

The only thing I disagree with is the relevance, now, in 2015, of the age at which he started. The only difference that means is that we should discount his number of years of age now: whatever that is, he has 20 years more experience. If he is 45, he is equal, in years, to 65.

I don't think I'm doing a very good job of saying what I want to say. Let me try another approach... the award is not for having been a child (baby, even!) prodigy, but for what he is now.

Perhaps I'm just quibbling here: you know that he is my chosen candidate too!

But then... what is a rasikas.org SK thread for, if not quibbling! We could call it the afterMAth.

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 24 Jun 2015, 21:40

I believe Music Academy should reveal the criteria used in selecting a Sangita Kalanidhi and the group that was involved in the selection process.

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 24 Jun 2015, 21:51

The news says that the EC selected. The composition of the EC is in their website.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 24 Jun 2015, 22:05

Gosh. Around double my estimate, although not all of them are still alive.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 24 Jun 2015, 22:05

harimau wrote: N Ravikiran sings. Sanjay sings.

How about you? You must sing too, right?

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 24 Jun 2015, 22:08

Suresh, surely you have heard the cat in the night?