Article of Gowri Ramnarayan
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rupavathi
- Posts: 178
- Joined: 13 Dec 2011, 08:44
Re: Article of Gowri Ramnarayan
Such pretentious nonsense in the garb of "intellectual" writing. Similar moaning about the decline of "serious" music and "Traditional" art has been heard since the beginning of art itself. It requires a certain skill and artistry to attract an audience and a following for any music. All this differentiation of "light" vs "heavy" vs "art" vs "non-art" is hogwash. As for this perceived emergence of "art musicians from the diaspora", one or two swallows don't make a summer!
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tiruppugazh
- Posts: 105
- Joined: 11 Jul 2010, 21:27
Re: Article of Gowri Ramnarayan
The article was for a seminar held in the US. What do you expect??emergence of "art musicians from the diaspora"
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Ramasubramanian M.K
- Posts: 1226
- Joined: 05 May 2009, 08:33
Re: Article of Gowri Ramnarayan
Do I detect an "animus' against the diaspora--especially the US? The article may have its own merits and demerits but the harsh comment in response dismissing the whole thesis as hogwash seems overwrought. In Chennai the citadel of carnatic Music, you visit any concert there are more grey-haired men and senior Mamis than youngsters--especially in a country where the under 35 population is the HIGHEST in the World and the demographics of listeners in Chennai do not reflect the national trend. However I am not contending that this augurs poorly for the future of Classical Music. Given the multiple forums available for following music,I see great interest amongst people who had not been exposed to CM before and are now encouraging their children to learn music,
CM will survive and grow despite the cassandras around!!!
CM will survive and grow despite the cassandras around!!!
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shripathi_g
- Posts: 359
- Joined: 30 Mar 2005, 08:25
Re: Article of Gowri Ramnarayan
This was the same Gowri Ramnarayan who did a review of one of Madurai Mani Iyer's albums and dismissed it as boring sarvalaghu. I'd not take her opinions seriously.
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SrinathK
- Posts: 2481
- Joined: 13 Jan 2013, 16:10
Re: Article of Gowri Ramnarayan
I actually don't find much to disagree with in that article -- it just seems the forum is tired of hearing these concerns being raised again and again and there are those who I feel just reflexively dismiss anything that uses the same old cliched phrases and complaints. Though I fully agree that complaints about music are not new at all --- I once remember a chart on the complaints made about the doom and gloom and hope of what is now called Western Classical music from the 12th century onwards. Yes, that's how long they've been talking doom and despite it all, somehow it still survives.
Ah, Carnatic music also has such a history -- first when the kings and royal patrons declined under the British and eventually went out altogether post independence, then when hundreds of families pursuing music and dance gave up their livelihoods, then when film music came along, then the void that existed after the "death row" of the 1960s and 1970s, then the TV, then when concert halls were full of old people in the 80s and 90s, now it's the internet.
So we've got serious competition like never before from musical genres much more popular than ours -- very true. In my school days, there were maybe 3 of us in a class who were really interested in CM and a couple of others in dance -- the others were into raps & rock and blues and films ... it's gravitational force I call it, many more people listen to that and they attract in proportion to their mass. Exposure is just that much greater in more popular music. Live Carnatic music is however still popular because organizing a live rock concert of an international band is a HUGE undertaking.
But on the plus side the music has never, ever, at any time in history, been more accessible to us either -- you've got resources in this decade that have never been available to anyone in history before you. But then, how many people are taking enthusiasm to pass on the music to the next generation ? It takes a certain level of musical awareness before the interest becomes self sustaining. I've heard plenty of parents and thathas and paatis complain that their children have no interest in it -- but from their side, how many concerts have they themselves attended or how many recordings do they play (other than Suprabhatam or bhaja govindam) in their own houses? I would say it is squarely the fault of the previous generations for not taking time and energy out to encourage their children to listen to great music in their formative years. If you think you can start after 10, you are already too late.
So don't complain about CM's migration to the US -- in a globalized world, it is inevitable and it has been happening since the time of the Greeks and the Sumerians. Don't be jealous. If you care about the music, do something positive and be proactive yourself rather than simply criticizing the efforts of others. Concert attendees are many, concert reviews & reviewers are also not in shortage, but enthusiasts are few.
The stats which Rsachi once posted on the forum would also agree that the article's comments on audience's tastes are spot on -- most audiences (younger) prefer racy, loud, thrilling and flamboyant music in the beginning. As one grows older, with more experience, the musical interests start to search for more depth and introspection.
Also I should point out that many of the old era CM greats were financially quite broke (leave aside the Tier 1, even there we had quite a few with finances issue. What about the Tier 2 ones whose names are barely known?) -- so what's wrong with "worldly motives?" I mean one side we complain about artistes who lived in penury and on the other side we also say this. There was once a certain uncompromising standard of Carnatic music that was known only in the chambers of a house attended by about two dozen people a hundred years ago. And the privacy of one's house is STILL the best place for a research lab that can plumb music to it's full depths.
I definitely know from experience that fusion is still very early in it's evolution -- it still has a tendency to dumb down things in favour of speed and all -- which is why it's somewhat like a viral video -- give it some time and it stays in no one's memories.
And you want an individual vocal timbre? Practice without the mic. Devote a lot of time towards vocal training. And first of all, develop your ear for hearing tonal colours and shades. I have to tell you, today's stage mics drown out your natural voice almost completely (hence the dependence on feedback monitors, none of whom will ever be as good as a human ear) and our cramped apartments don't give us an opportunity to develop vocal power. It is almost essential that one needs a lot of privacy and a very supportive family to practice Carnatic music -- which for some people probably entails renting your own house in Chennai at some point, on your own, as a student... believe me, being in another city surrounded by guys who have no interest in CM, I know.... not very ideal conditions, but the alternative isn't financially feasible.
Ah, Carnatic music also has such a history -- first when the kings and royal patrons declined under the British and eventually went out altogether post independence, then when hundreds of families pursuing music and dance gave up their livelihoods, then when film music came along, then the void that existed after the "death row" of the 1960s and 1970s, then the TV, then when concert halls were full of old people in the 80s and 90s, now it's the internet.
So we've got serious competition like never before from musical genres much more popular than ours -- very true. In my school days, there were maybe 3 of us in a class who were really interested in CM and a couple of others in dance -- the others were into raps & rock and blues and films ... it's gravitational force I call it, many more people listen to that and they attract in proportion to their mass. Exposure is just that much greater in more popular music. Live Carnatic music is however still popular because organizing a live rock concert of an international band is a HUGE undertaking.
But on the plus side the music has never, ever, at any time in history, been more accessible to us either -- you've got resources in this decade that have never been available to anyone in history before you. But then, how many people are taking enthusiasm to pass on the music to the next generation ? It takes a certain level of musical awareness before the interest becomes self sustaining. I've heard plenty of parents and thathas and paatis complain that their children have no interest in it -- but from their side, how many concerts have they themselves attended or how many recordings do they play (other than Suprabhatam or bhaja govindam) in their own houses? I would say it is squarely the fault of the previous generations for not taking time and energy out to encourage their children to listen to great music in their formative years. If you think you can start after 10, you are already too late.
So don't complain about CM's migration to the US -- in a globalized world, it is inevitable and it has been happening since the time of the Greeks and the Sumerians. Don't be jealous. If you care about the music, do something positive and be proactive yourself rather than simply criticizing the efforts of others. Concert attendees are many, concert reviews & reviewers are also not in shortage, but enthusiasts are few.
The stats which Rsachi once posted on the forum would also agree that the article's comments on audience's tastes are spot on -- most audiences (younger) prefer racy, loud, thrilling and flamboyant music in the beginning. As one grows older, with more experience, the musical interests start to search for more depth and introspection.
Also I should point out that many of the old era CM greats were financially quite broke (leave aside the Tier 1, even there we had quite a few with finances issue. What about the Tier 2 ones whose names are barely known?) -- so what's wrong with "worldly motives?" I mean one side we complain about artistes who lived in penury and on the other side we also say this. There was once a certain uncompromising standard of Carnatic music that was known only in the chambers of a house attended by about two dozen people a hundred years ago. And the privacy of one's house is STILL the best place for a research lab that can plumb music to it's full depths.
I definitely know from experience that fusion is still very early in it's evolution -- it still has a tendency to dumb down things in favour of speed and all -- which is why it's somewhat like a viral video -- give it some time and it stays in no one's memories.
And you want an individual vocal timbre? Practice without the mic. Devote a lot of time towards vocal training. And first of all, develop your ear for hearing tonal colours and shades. I have to tell you, today's stage mics drown out your natural voice almost completely (hence the dependence on feedback monitors, none of whom will ever be as good as a human ear) and our cramped apartments don't give us an opportunity to develop vocal power. It is almost essential that one needs a lot of privacy and a very supportive family to practice Carnatic music -- which for some people probably entails renting your own house in Chennai at some point, on your own, as a student... believe me, being in another city surrounded by guys who have no interest in CM, I know.... not very ideal conditions, but the alternative isn't financially feasible.
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ramamantra
- Posts: 281
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 10:32
Re: Article of Gowri Ramnarayan
The writing itself is so choppy, jerky - much like the hasty young musicians she so laments. Having said that, the point of nostalgic yearning for unique style and soulful singing is something even a lay rasika complains of. So, I do agree with the crux.
Again, if this article is to boost the Indian diaspora, it does serve the purpose. Moreover, Rupavati, like sripati says, no need to take it seriously. After all, why shoot the messenger?
Again, if this article is to boost the Indian diaspora, it does serve the purpose. Moreover, Rupavati, like sripati says, no need to take it seriously. After all, why shoot the messenger?
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munirao2001
- Posts: 1334
- Joined: 28 Feb 2009, 11:35
Re: Article of Gowri Ramnarayan
KVC Sir,
I have posted my comments in the DNA India.com. I am posting here the copy of the same:
"In the history of 'art music' practice in Indian Classical music, the present times is also past in the present. Future times, likely to be also of the past in the future.
Class Vs Mass will remain unresolved challenge for the art music practice. To achieve the goal of Indian Classical Music for the Masses-critical masses, sincere, committed and dedicated thinking, will and support is required from all the stakeholders - Rasikas; Event Managers; Patrons; Opinion Makers, including Media-Visual and Print. Celebrate Classicism and create support system for both learning, deep study and its practice with general well being of living for the practitioners for success only attracts.
To usher in the change, first the practitioners must have the integrity and partake the pleasure of pure and righteousness in art music practice and performance. Rasikas must become discerning rasikas by knowing the minimal level of lakshya and lakshana of art and classical music and firmly resolve to support the practitioners of class controlling their instinct of herd mentality of supporting the mass-only extremely popular practitioners. Event Managers and Patrons must also firmly resolve to support class higher level over the extremely popular. Opinion makers, including Media owners and Editors must also commit for promoting the class over extremely popular. Central and State Governments and their institutions must also have the committees who act with deep commitment and dedication of recognizing the practitioners of class over extremely/popular and their support to such practitioners. All these thinking and actions will only promote and celebrate class over mass, resulting in the long term the class achieving the critical mass."
munirao2001
I have posted my comments in the DNA India.com. I am posting here the copy of the same:
"In the history of 'art music' practice in Indian Classical music, the present times is also past in the present. Future times, likely to be also of the past in the future.
Class Vs Mass will remain unresolved challenge for the art music practice. To achieve the goal of Indian Classical Music for the Masses-critical masses, sincere, committed and dedicated thinking, will and support is required from all the stakeholders - Rasikas; Event Managers; Patrons; Opinion Makers, including Media-Visual and Print. Celebrate Classicism and create support system for both learning, deep study and its practice with general well being of living for the practitioners for success only attracts.
To usher in the change, first the practitioners must have the integrity and partake the pleasure of pure and righteousness in art music practice and performance. Rasikas must become discerning rasikas by knowing the minimal level of lakshya and lakshana of art and classical music and firmly resolve to support the practitioners of class controlling their instinct of herd mentality of supporting the mass-only extremely popular practitioners. Event Managers and Patrons must also firmly resolve to support class higher level over the extremely popular. Opinion makers, including Media owners and Editors must also commit for promoting the class over extremely popular. Central and State Governments and their institutions must also have the committees who act with deep commitment and dedication of recognizing the practitioners of class over extremely/popular and their support to such practitioners. All these thinking and actions will only promote and celebrate class over mass, resulting in the long term the class achieving the critical mass."
munirao2001
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munirao2001
- Posts: 1334
- Joined: 28 Feb 2009, 11:35
Re: Article of Gowri Ramnarayan
Rupavathi,
You opine
1. Skill and Artistry to attract: In any art medium, the practitioner takes the means to attract; attracting, indulges; indulgence of both the practitioner and the audience creates the following of great numbers; great numbers of audience bestows sanctity to the practitioner’s skills of presentation and to the very practitioner. In art and its practice, 'classicism' adds value and establishes the very art, distinct from other arts. What is classicism? It is the pleasure of the intellect, the ultimate. Total attention, focus and actions to attract by the practitioner rests in creation of surprise; excitement; heightened emotions-devotional or romantic; infusion of power by artificial means (not inherent natural power of quality). Success of practitioners in attracting and compel other practitioners seeking similar success. Success also creates tendencies and habits of audience to consume such offer of pleasure rejecting any other. Rejections do not support the practitioners who chose to offer art in its true and pure form and its pleasure.
2. 'Light' Vs 'Heavy'; 'Art' Vs 'Non-art': Use of word is to establish identity; externalizing the internalized feelings or emotions; its effects of pleasure in the mind. Indian Classical Music, two of the greatest arts in the World of Music, has established and communicates the effects of pleasure based on 'karma indriyas-senses of actions and 'gnanendriyas-senses of perceptions. Identity of 'light' for senses of actions and 'heavy' for senses of perceptions based on its influence and effects on the mind. 'Art' is with the identity of established and followed theory and practice with demand for conformance and righteousness to the aims and objectives of such art form. In its absence, wholly or partially, the 'non-art'-any form of practice of non conformance as 'freedom' or 'artistic liberty' enjoined.
Support and its expressions in communication by the rasika will be with the influence and urge of pleasure and recall pleasure related to their knowledge (learnt and experienced). For judging and forming well considered (with reason and logic) opinion, perceptions or insights only enable and empower.
Finally, observe the respect and reverence of performers and artists of 'light' and 'non-art' forms give to the performers and artists of 'heavy' and 'art' forms to get the clarity and understanding based on the reason and logic, Universally and in all forms of Global Music.
munirao2001
You opine
Let us discuss.It requires a certain skill and artistry to attract an audience and a following for any music. All this differentiation of "light" vs "heavy" vs "art" vs "non-art" is hogwash.
1. Skill and Artistry to attract: In any art medium, the practitioner takes the means to attract; attracting, indulges; indulgence of both the practitioner and the audience creates the following of great numbers; great numbers of audience bestows sanctity to the practitioner’s skills of presentation and to the very practitioner. In art and its practice, 'classicism' adds value and establishes the very art, distinct from other arts. What is classicism? It is the pleasure of the intellect, the ultimate. Total attention, focus and actions to attract by the practitioner rests in creation of surprise; excitement; heightened emotions-devotional or romantic; infusion of power by artificial means (not inherent natural power of quality). Success of practitioners in attracting and compel other practitioners seeking similar success. Success also creates tendencies and habits of audience to consume such offer of pleasure rejecting any other. Rejections do not support the practitioners who chose to offer art in its true and pure form and its pleasure.
2. 'Light' Vs 'Heavy'; 'Art' Vs 'Non-art': Use of word is to establish identity; externalizing the internalized feelings or emotions; its effects of pleasure in the mind. Indian Classical Music, two of the greatest arts in the World of Music, has established and communicates the effects of pleasure based on 'karma indriyas-senses of actions and 'gnanendriyas-senses of perceptions. Identity of 'light' for senses of actions and 'heavy' for senses of perceptions based on its influence and effects on the mind. 'Art' is with the identity of established and followed theory and practice with demand for conformance and righteousness to the aims and objectives of such art form. In its absence, wholly or partially, the 'non-art'-any form of practice of non conformance as 'freedom' or 'artistic liberty' enjoined.
Support and its expressions in communication by the rasika will be with the influence and urge of pleasure and recall pleasure related to their knowledge (learnt and experienced). For judging and forming well considered (with reason and logic) opinion, perceptions or insights only enable and empower.
Finally, observe the respect and reverence of performers and artists of 'light' and 'non-art' forms give to the performers and artists of 'heavy' and 'art' forms to get the clarity and understanding based on the reason and logic, Universally and in all forms of Global Music.
munirao2001
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KNV1955
- Posts: 354
- Joined: 22 Oct 2012, 21:29
Re: Article of Gowri Ramnarayan
NRI talent in CM is presently very high. See the no of participants in Music Academy this year. Ananya Ashok ;Ramakrishnan Murthy; Sangeetha Swaminathan;Sushma Somasekharan;Sandeep Narayan; Anantha R Krishnan (Mridangist) Nishanth Chandran (Viloin). Next year I am sure Kruti Bhat; Sruti Sarathy(Violin) will figure.Plus there are some impressive accompanists who are not seen around much like H V Srivatsan (Vocal & Violin); Rohan Krishnamurthy (Mridangam);Aishu Venkataraman (Violin). All of them are trained under stalwarts & present sampradaya sangeetham.
KNV
KNV
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KNV1955
- Posts: 354
- Joined: 22 Oct 2012, 21:29
Re: Article of Gowri Ramnarayan
NRI talent in CM is presently very high. See the no of participants in Music Academy this year. Ananya Ashok ;Ramakrishnan Murthy; Sangeetha Swaminathan;Sushma Somasekharan;Sandeep Narayan; Anantha R Krishnan (Mridangist) Nishanth Chandran (Viloin). Next year I am sure Kruti Bhat; Sruti Sarathy(Violin) will figure.Plus there are some impressive accompanists who are not seen around much like H V Srivatsan (Vocal & Violin); Rohan Krishnamurthy (Mridangam);Aishu Venkataraman (Violin). Aditya Prakash has good voice. All of them are trained under stalwarts & present sampradaya sangeetham.
KNV
KNV