The ten elements of Tala

Tālam & Layam related topics
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sbala
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Post by sbala »

The ten elements of Tala are

1. Kala
2. Marga
3. Kriya
4. Anga
5. Graha
6. Jati
7. Kalai
8. Laya
9. Yati
10. Prastara.

The 10th element has been covered in quite a bit of detail in the Talaprastara thread. It would be good if some of our experts can let us know the precise definitions of the first 9 elements. I also think if we learn these terms it might stop us from inventing new terms which add to the confusion.

msakella
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Post by msakella »

Dear brother-member, sbala, Go through the 1st chapter of my book, Indian genius in Talaprastara and you will get the precise definitions of all the 10 elements of our Tala system. If we truly want to remain far way from confusion we all must go through all the old treatises, precisely understand the definitions and relevancy of the technical terms and strive hard for the true propagation of them without keeping quiet of their mis-use.
As it was mentioned by Dr. R.Sathyanarayana of Mysore in his foreword of my book ‘In the pretext of ‘melodiousness’ and popularity, scholarship in the practice of music is being unfortunately allowed to wane at the present time. Technique, virtuousity and scholarship, when mastered and applied with effortless ease and grace promote excellence and highest creative activity in music. Individual caprice, eccentricity and mannerisms should not be confounded with genius or brilliance. Genius assumes a deep and broad base of profound, continuous, conscious learning which is intensified and sublimated to the subconscious level.’ amsharma.
Last edited by msakella on 12 Apr 2007, 05:35, edited 1 time in total.

mridhangam
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Post by mridhangam »

Prof Sambamurthy in his "South Indian Music" has also dealt with the Ten Elements which are called "Tala Dasa Praanas". He has also briefly defined all the items with examples and graphical representation.

J.Balaji

msakella
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Post by msakella »

Dear brother-member, mridhangam, After finding the latent clues of Nashta, Uddishta and Kalita, when I have demonstrated these things before Prof. P.Sambamurthy in 1970 he exclaimed my work and suggested me to bring this out in a book form at the earliest. Within a couple of months I brought this in a book form and shown him and requested him to write the fore-word to my book. He, very gladly wrote it and gave me then and there and told me to print it and give him some copies to enable him to include it in the music syllabus. But, later, as I was not sound enough to get it printed, I have handed it over to Sangeeta Academy of Andhra Pradesh and it came out in 1985 only by which time, most unfortunately, he was no more. Thus, he was the first person to encourage me in giving me distinction in all my 3 examinations in music, Violin and Vocal as examiner and also in my extensive research on Talaprastara by very kindly writing the foreword to the Telugu version of my book. But, I feel very sorry to say that the Prastara portion written in his book needs proper modification. amsharma.

mridhangam
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Post by mridhangam »

Yes of course sir no doubt about ur statements. But for a beginning one can go through that and then for advanced subjects he can come to such books like yours.
Am i wrong sir ?

J.Balaji

Nick H
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Post by Nick H »

It would be great if we could begin with a brief translation into English.

That we may not agree on all the translations can only lead to useful conversation!

msakella
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Post by msakella »

Brother-members, mridhangam & nick H, dear, I too agree with you but that briefness should not be at the cost of the correctness. But, most unfortunately, here this happened and even the basic definition of Prastara is incorrect. Nowadays, even the people who are well aware of the things are evading enlightening the people of the facts to get the title, ‘non-controversial-gentleman’. But, like them I cannot keep myself silent to get such an impotent title along with awards as a knowledgeable person. amsharma.

Nick H
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Post by Nick H »

The theory is given very briefly in the books that I have seen --- and perhaps it does not need very many words for some of the aspects, it is always a mistake to overcomplicate things.

But a very good example is that I had no idea at all that there is so very much to prastara and that it is not just a page or two of example permutations that could be worked out by a machine. Due to my innumeracy I may never get very far with that that subject but you have opened my eyes to the facts that (a) it is an enormous subject and (b) that it is not just dry juggling with numerical combinations.

So... for the other nine?

Maybe for some just a few words do actually suffice to explain: maybe for others there are whole worlds that I have never yet seen!

sbala
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Post by sbala »

I agree with Nick. I will post the definitions from Sharmaji's book verbatim in a day. That might be a good start.

sbala
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Post by sbala »

The first element from Sharmaji's book

1. Kaala
This element is defined as the mode of measuring the duration of kriya ie, any act used to demonstrate or manifest the time quantity. It connotes the (uniform) speed with which the musical(or dance) event is executed over each division of the tala cycle. Such speed ie the rate at which element of a musical (or dance) event per unit time, is said to be first, second, third etc, depending on whether the event is executed at the intial, double or quadrupled rate ie. whether the same event is executed in a given duration or in half or quarter of the original duration. Thus Kaala (musical speed) changes by progressive doubling.

The unit time for reckoning Kala is Matra. In order to accomodate elastic use and subjective variation, the Matra is given in Sastra a flexible definition

1. The Matra is taken as the total duration of uttering the five short syllables Ka, Ca, Ta, Ta and Pa. "Panca-laghu-aksaroccara-mita matreha kathyate"(from Sangita Ratnakara). This value is adopted in Marga talas. Since Laghu (short) syllables are involved, the span is called Laghu. This also is approximately the duration of a second.

2. It is equated to Nimesakala ie time required to close and open the eyes naturally.
Nimesakalo matrah - Kalanidhi (commentary of Kallinatha) on Sangita Ratnakara.This is taken roughly equal to a second and so Matra roughly coresponds to the objective duration of a second.

3. In desi talas, however, the Laghu had a variable value; its Matra could be 4, 5 or 6 units. This was finally standardised to a duration of 4 units and is so used. This Laghu is hence called Caturasra while one of three units is called Trisra.
Last edited by sbala on 14 Apr 2007, 08:46, edited 1 time in total.

msakella
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Post by msakella »

Dear brother/sister-members, In Sangeeta Ratnakara, in the definition of the 1st element, Kaala of the Taladashapranas, the more-precise Maatra which is more easily understandable and followable has only been defined. But, I do not know why, in all the recent books on musicology, instead, the less precise terms, Kshana, Lava, Kaashta etc., which are cumbersome and full of ambiguity, have been furnished by the authors. amsharma.

sbala
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Post by sbala »

Dear Sharmaji,
When I read this first time, I thought I had understood Matra. But, as I kept thinking about it, it seemed to me that my understanding was wrong. I have given what I have understood below but I'm not totally sure if I have got it right.

Matra is just a unit for measuring time just like seconds, minutes or hours. Is that correct? So, the duration of a adi tala avarthanam could be 8 matras (or any number of matras depending on the kalapramanam that was chosen). the duration of one cycle of the event (song or dance) in 1st speed would be 8 matras, in 2nd speed - 4 matras and 3rd speed- 2 matras.
Last edited by sbala on 14 Apr 2007, 12:11, edited 1 time in total.

msakella
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Post by msakella »

Dear brother-member, sbala, You have understood it correctly. Matra is just a unit for measuring time. The duration of time taken to utter five laghu (short) syllables i.e., ka-cha-ta-ta-pa, is Matra and that is why one of our Talangas is named after ‘Laghu’. Thus, the duration of an Adi-tala avartam consisting of 8 Kriyas, in total, should occupy 8 seconds only. While any composition in the 1st degree of it occupies 8 such Avartas of 8 seconds, the 2nd degree of it should occupy half of it of 4 Avartas of 4 seconds and the 3rd degree of it should occupy still half of the previous one of 2 Avartas of 2 seconds.That’s all. While this kind of Matra-application is more easily understandable, followable and with lesser ambiguity, the presently defined and furnished act of ‘piercing of 100 petal leaves with a needle and so on with Kshana, Lava, Kaashta etc., etc.,’ is more difficult to follow and still more ambiguous just like ‘mathematics made difficult’. I feel so. amsharma.

sbala
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Post by sbala »

Dear Sharmaji,
Should one Kriya always correspond to 1 matra or 1 second? Isn't that a big restriction? To put the question differently, is it wrong if I do

1. 1 avarthanam of adi tala in 16 seconds
2. 1st degree of the musical event in 16 seconds
3. 2nd degree of the musical event in 8 seconds.
4. 3rd degree of the musical event in 4 seconds

msakella
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Post by msakella »

Dear brother-member, sbala, What you wrote is not wrong at all. In such case, your Avarta of Adi-tala is of 16 matras occupying 16 seconds. You can render any Tala of your choice but its duration should be measured in terms of Matras equated to seconds. amsharma.

sbala
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Post by sbala »

Thanks Sharmaji. It's clear now

sbala
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Post by sbala »

Marga - 2nd element

Marga means extent or measure. It measures the magnitude of organs of Tala such as Druta, Laghu. It's measuring device is Matra or Kaala. It is not merely the total quantity of time but must include Kriya ie. the act of performing the tala also. In other words, Kaala, which is of the form of a group of kriyas is Marga. The word Marga is appropriate to this vital element becaue it indicates the route taken in time to arrive at the destination by manipulation of other elements.

AcyutarAya presecribed 8,4,2 and 1 Matra durations respectively for the Margas - DakSiNa,Vartika,Citra and Citratara. He further described the durations of Druta and Anudruta respectively for Citra-tama and Ati-Citra-tama Margas.

msakella
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Post by msakella »

Dear brother-member, sbala, You have very nicely started defining the 10 elements one after the other serially and I am unable to understand why you have stopped at 'Marga', of the 10 elements. Did you not find the 'Marga' to proceed on after 'Marga'! Please proceed on. amsharma.

sbala
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Post by sbala »

Dear Sharmaji,
I will do so in a few days.

sbala
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Post by sbala »

Kriya - 3rd element

Kriya is the manual act used to demonstrate or manifest the quantity of each organ, the structure and the quantity of each cycle (Avarta) of a tala, which are borne in the mind, for their physical manifestation. Kriyas are separately described for Marga and Desi Talas. These are divided into sounded (Sasabda) and silent (Nihsabda) kriyas. Beat, finger snapping, clapping are examples of the former while counting, waving of the hand are examples of the latter.

1. Marga Kriyas
a. Nihsabda Kriyas
1. Avapa - Counting of the time duration by folding the fingers of the hand facing upwards
2. Niskrama - Counting of the time duration by unfolding the fingers of the hand facing downwards.
3. Viksepa - Moving the hand towards the right
4. Pravesa - Bringing it back

b. Sasabda Kriyas
1. Dhruva - Producing sound with the thumb and the middle-finger
2. Samya - Striking on the righ-hand palm with the left-hand palm
3. Tala - Striking the left hand palm with the right hand palm
4. Sannipata - Clapping with both hands facing each other

2. Desya Kriyas
a. Nihsabda Kriyas
1. Sarpini - Moving the hand towards left like a flag with the palm facing downwards
2. Krsna - Moving towards the right
3. Padmini - Bringing it downwards towards the front side
4. Visarjita - Waving it outwards turning the palm upwards
5. Viksipta - Bringing it towards self, closing-in the fingers
6. Pataka - Raising the hands upwards like a flag
7. Patita - Bringing it down like a flag.

b. Sasabda Kriya
1. Dhruvaka - A beat of the hand
Last edited by sbala on 05 May 2007, 21:08, edited 1 time in total.

sbala
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Post by sbala »

Dear Sharmaji,
Is it possible to demonstrate these movements or do we have pictures showing these? Ã
Last edited by sbala on 05 May 2007, 21:11, edited 1 time in total.

msakella
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Post by msakella »

Dear brother member, sbala, Do we have to illustrate these hand-postures? I think they are clear enough to follow.
Sarpini - moving the hand towards left like a flag with the palm facing downwards -
if you keep all the fingers, starting from the little finger to the thumb, of your hand one above the other together like a flag your palm is just like a flag. Then if you make its face down and move it towards your left it is Sarpini, towards right Krishna and other things follow. That’s all. Still, if you are unable to follow we can visualize them by taking their photographs. Do we need them? amsharma.

sbala
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Post by sbala »

Dear Sharmaji,
Welcome back from your tour. No need to take any special efforts for this. I was moving my hands like a traffic cop. So, I wasn't sure if I understood it.

msakella
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Post by msakella »

Dear brother-member, sbala, One full month passed away since you have stopped defining the remaining elements of Taladashapranas. Would you please start again to define the remaining elements of them for the benefit of many of our brothers and sisters?
amsharma.

sbala
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Post by sbala »

Here we go again!

Anga -4th element

Anga mean organ. This element describes the structure of the tala in terms of the various divisions each of which is maked by an account of a beat. The Anga of Tala also means the number and order of its structural units. These are Anudruta containing single unit duration, Druta having double unit duration and Laghu carries varying duration based on unit values of Jati. Guru, Pluta and Kakapada carry 2,3 or 4 times the duration of Laghu respectively.

1. Anudruta "Ü" is the sign of Anudruta. This should be rendered with the help of the Desya kriya, Dhruvaka and it synonyms are Ardhachandra, Vjanjana, Anunasika, Avyakata and Virama.

2. Druta : "O" is the sign of Druta. This should be rendered with the help of Druvaka and Visarjita of Desya Kriyas and its synonyms are Ardhamatra, Vyoma, Bindu, Valaya, Vrtta and Kham.

3. Laghu : "I" is the sign of Laghu. This should be rendered with the help of Dhruvaka followed by counting fingers for maintaining the different units of time of Jati and its synonyms are MAtra, Sarala, Hrasva, Kala and Sara

4. Guru "S" is the sign of Guru. This should be rendered with the help of Dhruvaka and Patita each followed by counting fingers for maintaining the units of time of Jati and its synonyms are Dvimatra, Vakra, Kana, Yamala and Dirgha

5. Pluta : "Ś'" is the sign of Pluta. This should be rendered with the help of Dhruvaka, Sarpini and Krsna each followed by counting fingers for maintaining the units of time of Jati and its synonyms are Sambodbhava, Dipta, Tryanga and Trimatra.

6. Kakapada : "+" is the sign of Kakapada. This should be rendered with the help of Sarpini, Krsna, Pataka and Patita, it being an absolute Nihsabda anga, each followed by counting fingers for maintaining the units of time of Jati and its synonyms are Hamsapada,Nihsabda,Caturlaghu and Caturmatra.
Last edited by sbala on 11 Jun 2007, 09:15, edited 1 time in total.

sbala
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Post by sbala »

5th element - Graha

Graha is the position of attack i.e., mutual relation between the commencement of the thala cycle and the commencement of the melody line. This is of 2 kinds. It is said to be sama if both positons of commencement coincide i.e, if the melody line commences at the commencement of thr tala cycle itself. It is said to be Visama otherwise. This is again of 2 kinds. It is Anagata if the melody line commences after the Tala cycle has commenced. It is Atita if the melody line commences first
Last edited by sbala on 11 Jun 2007, 12:23, edited 1 time in total.

sbala
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Post by sbala »

6th element - Jaati
Jaati defines the quantity of the tala cycle by defining the quantiy of the laghu. There are 5 laghu jatis - trisra, caturasra,khanda, misra and Sankirna with time quantities of 3,4,5,7, and 9 units respectively. Other laghu jatis such as Divya Sankirna, Misra Sankirna, Desya Sankirna, Misra Desya Sankrina and Desya Suddha Sankirna containing 6,8,10,12 and 16 units respectively are used rarely.

Synonyms of all these 10 jaatis are
1.Svarga Laghu 3
2. Manusya Laghu 4
3. Desya Laghu 5
4. Hamsa Laghu 7
5. Citra Laghu 9
6. Divya Laghu 6
7. Simha Laghu 8
8. Varna Laghu 10
9. Vadya Laghu 12
10. Karnataka Laghu 16

The different units of laghu jaatis should be maintained by counting fingers of the same hand followed by the starting Kriya.

sbala
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Post by sbala »

Kala - 7th element
Kala defines the quantity of time possessed by an entire cycle or Avarta of a tala. The original quantity of the time is called Yathaksara or Eka Kala, twice of its quanity called Dvikala and tiwce of the quanity of Dvikala is called Catuskala. Dvi-kala and Catuskala are made use in Marga talas in terms of Gurus only.

sbala
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Post by sbala »

Laya - 8th element
Laya may be roughly translated as tempo which describes the speed of the melody line. It is of 3 kinds
1. Druta (Fast)
2. Madhya (Medium)
3. Vliambita (Slow)

Sometimes, these tempi themselves are further subdivided into the following 9 varieties.

1. Vilambita vilambita
2. Vilambita madhya
3. Vilambita druta
4. Madhya vilambita
5. Madhya madhya
6. Madhya druta
7. Druta vilambita
8. Druta madhya
9. Druta druta
Last edited by sbala on 11 Jun 2007, 12:40, edited 1 time in total.

sbala
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Post by sbala »

9th element - Yati

Yati is roughly translated into English as "Caesura". It consists of forming different patterns of melodic or word flow by arranging the pauses in various ways. This was done by by 2 methods

1. Manipulating the slow, moddle and fast tempi in such a way as to to arrive at the desired pattern

2. Arranging the tala organs of diffrent sizes (heavy, light etc) in such a way as to obtain the required pattern.

They are different approaches to the same aspect.

Early treatises describe 3 yatis

1. Sama - The density of flow is uniform in word or melody
2. Srotovaha - It commences small but gradually enlarges like a river.
3. Gopuccha (cow's tail) - It is the opposite of Srotovaha - flow begins large but tapers at the end.

Later treatises add 3 more
1. Mrdanga yati - Heavy angas are in the middle and lighter angas are at the ends. This is also called Yavamadhya

2. Pipilika - This is the opposite of Mrdanga yati. Heavy angas are at the ends and lighter angas in the middle. This is also called Vedamadhya.

If 2 tempi frequently recur in a repeating tala cycle, it is said to be Kharjurika yati. In Visama yati, there is no discernible pattern in the arrangement of tempi or organs.

sbala
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Post by sbala »

Prastara - 10th element

Rhythmical forms are innumerable and they are all derivatives of this element, Prastara. in which talaangas are premuted into all possible combinations in a systematic process to avoid repetition.

Taking the number of different talaangas used in the process of permutation into account, the modes of permutaion are divided into 4 kinds and they are

1. Caturanga Prastara
2. Pancanga Prastara
3. Sadanga Prastara
4. Samyuktanga Prastara

Each on of these modes of permutation has 2 main divisions namely
1. Akhanda Prastara
2. Khanda Prastara

Khanda Prastara, in turn, has 2 sub-divisions namely
1. Hina Prastara
2. Yukta Prastara

All these divisions employ 2 different processes of prastara namely
1. Anuloma Prastara
2. Violoma Prastara

and 2 key figures namely
1. Sankhya - total number of permutations or prastaras
2. Mahapatala - total number of tala angas used in the process of permuation

The figures of sankhya and Mahaptala can be obtained using some easy methods,without going through the laborious process of tabulating all the permutations. Similarly, we can obtain the
1. Nasta - Series of talaangas of a partcular serial number of a prastara
2. Uddista - Serial Number of a prastara given the series of talaangas
3. Kalita - Total number of all the different talaangas used upto a particular serial number of the given prastara.

This element helps in obtaining the full details of all the various prastaras, many of which are highly useful in Swara improvisation. For further details, please refer the thread

http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1879
Last edited by sbala on 11 Jun 2007, 13:00, edited 1 time in total.

erode14
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Post by erode14 »

sbala wrote:9th element - Yati

2. Pipilika - This is the opposite of Mrdanga yati. Heavy angas are at the ends and lighter angas in the middle. This is also called Vedamadhya.
Dear shrI sbala,

pipeelika is sama yathi. The opposite to mrudanga yathi is vEdha madhyama yathi ( damaru yathi ).

erode nagaraj

Nick H
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Post by Nick H »

It may be foolish to disagree with a musician (but then the risk of being foolish has seldom stopped me doing anything, as many of my posts will show ;)) but, I thought it was named after the ant, broad at each end, with a tiny waist --- and the one text book I can find (dharmala Ramamurty) seems to confirm that

kunjamma
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Re: The ten elements of Tala

Post by kunjamma »

Dear sir could You also help me with a detail explanation on Adi tala and Roopaka tala for theory exam.

Aditya Jois
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Re: The ten elements of Tala

Post by Aditya Jois »

Namaskaraani to all the fellow rasikas.

I am very new to this forum and this is my first post/reply. I found this particular thread extremely interesting since I am extremely poor in tala. I found the following lecture series freely uploaded on youtube by Acharya net. This lecture series concentrates on taala dasha pranas itself. Hope it will be useful for others.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... kD7Ditsxwb

ajaysimha
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Re:

Post by ajaysimha »

sbala wrote: 15 Apr 2007, 13:09 Marga - 2nd element

Marga means extent or measure. It measures the magnitude of organs of Tala such as Druta, Laghu. It's measuring device is Matra or Kaala. It is not merely the total quantity of time but must include Kriya ie. the act of performing the tala also. In other words, Kaala, which is of the form of a group of kriyas is Marga. The word Marga is appropriate to this vital element becaue it indicates the route taken in time to arrive at the destination by manipulation of other elements.

AcyutarAya presecribed 8,4,2 and 1 Matra durations respectively for the Margas - DakSiNa,Vartika,Citra and Citratara. He further described the durations of Druta and Anudruta respectively for Citra-tama and Ati-Citra-tama Margas.
i had a few clarifications on marga:
are marga and kala same or different as below
marga is based on composition based
kala is speed based

in then lec-dem by chitravina narasimhan sir, he gives the clear picture of shad-vida margas(6 types): https://youtu.be/vK27kNTgfWs

marga and no. swaras/unit

1. ati-chitra: 1 units
2. chita-tama: 2 units
3. chitra-tara: 4 units
4. chitra: 8 units
5. vaardika: 16 units
6. Dakshina: 32 units

but other definition says: https://www.mridangams.com/2007/09/tala ... ranas.html

1. ati-chitra: 1/4 units
2. chita-tama: 1/2 units
3. chitra-tara: 1 units
4. chitra: 2 units
5. vaardika: 4 units
6. Dakshina: 8 units

(seems to be like all units are divided by 4) is this calculation for chaturashra gathi because it has 4 mathras

also one more research article says: https://ia802701.us.archive.org/2/items ... s-0177.pdf

B. Mārga
Mārga literally means ‘path’. A Mārga characterizes
different ways of rendering a Tāla on the basis of
elongating durations of the time units.7
There are
two systems of Mārga which are seen in preVijayanagara
treatises:
1) As per the Saṅgītaratnākara: The system of
Mārga-s - Dakṣiṇa, Vārtika, Citra, and Dhruva,
defined on the basis of the unit Kalā (Guru) (SR,
5, 10cd).
Dakṣiṇa: Kalā = 8 Mātra-s
Vārtika: Kalā = 4 Mātra-s
Citra: Kalā = 2 Mātra-s
Dhruva: Kalā = 1 Mātra
2) As per the Saṅgītacūḍāmaṇi: The system of
Mārga-s - Dakṣiṇa, Vārtika, Citra, Citratara,
Citratama and Aticitratama is seen (SC, 16, 51-
54 ab), 8
. In addition to Dakṣiṇa, Vārtika and
Citra as defined earlier, we have another three
Mārga-s :
Citratara: Kalā = 1 Mātra
Citratama: Kalā = ½ Mātra
Aticitratama: Kalā = Druta9
The Saṅgītasamayasāra describes both the systems
of Mārga-s and calls Citratara, Citratama and
Aticitrama as ‘Dēśī’ Mārga-s (SSS, 7, 13cd-20ab).

@ am sharmaji please clarify these doubts on marga.

msakella
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Re: The ten elements of Tala

Post by msakella »

Only today just now i have seen this post.
Here everything is ok except the last Atichitratama
Marga - 1/4 matra i.e. only 1 - unit. msakella

msakella
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Re: The ten elements of Tala

Post by msakella »

Nearly four decades of my life i have invested to go very deep into Talaprastara as this has never been fully brought out by any author in any language till now. Ultimately in 2001 i was able to finish it when i was compelled to take the system of learning our Karnataka music in a 'logical, time-bound and result-oriented' process. Presently this is going on and more than 75% of this is over.

As i did never concentrate much upon Marga my knowledge in this part, i feel, may be very limited.
msakella.

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