Thyagaraja krithis with corrupted lyrics

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 26 Feb 2007, 22:50

but i do not see it as a contradiction (??) - it is perhaps a bit odd to inscribe it at the navagraha sannadh since it is not in direct praise.

As per our Hindu pantheon now and perhaps during nAyanmArs , in the "chain of command" - the navagrahas are "subservient" to the major Gods like Trinity - arent they? So the pathigam is sort of establishing them at the "right place"

.

Now if the pathigam were to say they are bad, then that is different and reciting/inscribing them at the navagraha sannadhi, that would be a very bad contradiction. But dont the words directly say "they are not bad - they are only good"?

Anyway, this is digressing from the main topic.

Arun

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 26 Feb 2007, 23:18

vgv- I was reading thru your entry in the wiki for this kriti. You mention 'Agrahamu' means 'anger' in telugu, and 'obstinacy' in Sanskrit. In Malayalam this word means 'desire'.

I find it amazing three closely related languages (all derived from/same as Sanskrit) have three different meanings for the same word!

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 26 Feb 2007, 23:29

To add to this list - in kannaDa, it means forceful

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 27 Feb 2007, 00:15

As in satyAgrahA?
In thamizh, it can mean bad temper, valor, taking over and pride, among other things!

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 27 Feb 2007, 00:43

I think satyagraha = satya + graha, meaning 'holding on to the truth'
(not satya + Agraha)

I'm sure there are many more such words...would make for some confusion while transliterating! Arun, Vgv - pls take note.

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 27 Feb 2007, 00:48

jayaram,

Arasi is correct ; satyAgraha is satya + Agraha. It can not be split as satya + graha.

Yes, there are many such words with changed meanings

-Ramakriya

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 27 Feb 2007, 00:58

You are right, Ramakriya. The sandhi needs the two akaras, of course. (It didn't feel right when I wrote it!)

Sanskrit does have desire as one of the meanings - see here: http://www.vedabase.net/a/agraha

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 08 Mar 2007, 17:14

SrI tyAgarAja kRti E rAmuni nammitinO - rAga vakuLAbharaNam is posted in our wiki - http://www.rasikas.org/wiki/e-ramuni

The following caraNa occurs in the kRti -

2. dAra putrula vadda cEran(I)ka ravi kumAruni velapaTa bAra dOli giri
jEra jEsin(a)TTi tArA nAyakuni samhAramu jEsina SrI rAmuDu gAdO (E)

2. Isnâ€™t He that SrI rAma who slayed such a vAli (husband of tAra) who drove away sugrIva (the son of Sun) and made him reach the mountains without allowing his wife and children to be near him?

I have been intimated by Sri Govindaswamy through e-mail that in the book of Sri KV Srinivasa Iyengar (M Adi & Co) this caraNa is given as under -

2. dAra putrula vadda cEran(I)ka ravi kumAruni velapaTa bAra dOli ruma
jEra jIrin(a)TTi tArA nAyakuni samhAramu jEsina SrI rAmuDu gAdO (E)

The meaning derived is - instead of made him reach the mountains - it is

called (Jirina) ruma (wife of sugrIva) to come (cEra) to him

I may mention that I also have the book written by the same author published by the same company. The only difference is that my book does not contain meanings.

I have checked with the books TKG, CR and TSV/AKG (and also the book of KV Srinivasa Iyengar) which are available with me and found that the version posted in our wiki is similar in all books.

How can there be variations in the book by the same author - the variations not attributable to printing errors?

The question is how 'giri' is changed to 'ruma' - (rumA is the name of wife of sugrIva). I may also mention that the telugu word 'jIru' has no such meaning of 'call' - that is besides the point.

Viewers may draw their own conclusions.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 22 Mar 2007, 17:47

In the Thyagaraja kRti 'pAhi pAhi dIna bandhO' -rAga saurAShTram, caraNa 3 is as under -

cakrAri janaka samharaNa Sankha
cakrAdi dharASrita caraNa (pAhi)

In the books 'cakrAri' has been taken to mean 'indrajit - enemy of indra'.
On a search from web and Dictionary, there seems to no reference to indicate 'cakra' means 'indra'.
As per Monier's Sanskrit Dictionary, 'Sakra' means 'indra'.
Are there any references available with anybody about 'cakra' to mean 'indra'?

(NB - As the kRti is not listed in our wiki, the same could not be posted)

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 22 Mar 2007, 19:07

Sakra is correct. See here

http://www.karnatik.com/c2695.shtml

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 22 Mar 2007, 19:32

drs,
Thanks.

vijayagopal · Post by **vijayagopal** » 03 Apr 2007, 15:37

vgvindan wrote:nija marmamula - rAga umAbharaNam
This famous kRti, though very small, is very corrupted. I am giving hereunder the complete kRti along with meanings ------

-----
Please comment

May Saint Thyagaraja Bless us all
V Govindan

Emi + oko is emoko. This means " what could this be?"
EmokO chiguru pedavulanu annamayya is a reference, does not mean which woman.
It says , what is this there is kasturi on the lips!
It looks like the letter written by the love lorn girl's letter to the beloved.
It is potry at its best.
Emako is wrong usage.

vid vEdane.
vid is to know.
shruti sastra ... vidadi is the reference. vid + Adi makes vidAdi.
those and the others, who know vEda sastra etc. etc.
such people are called sanmatha nishtulu, meaning experts and sticklers of good opinion.
matham is not religion but an opinion.
vidAdi is the correct version.

kshitipatulan + kumatualuga
kings as bad minded people
it could be kshitipatulangumatuluga also.
Conjugation makes the parusham anto a saralam. Ka becomes Ga.
gamatuluga has no meaning.

vijayagopal · Post by **vijayagopal** » 03 Apr 2007, 15:42

The discussions here are scholarly.
I find that rare variations called patha bhEdams, are being discussed. It is very much necessary.

But, my concern is , mistakes and wrong pronounciations, out of ignorance.
They sometimes alter the meaning of the rendering.
May be we should also talk about them and bring them to the notice of the young singers.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 03 Apr 2007, 19:06

vijayagopal,
Regarding 'EmokO' appearing in Annamayya kRti, thanks for your correct rendition of the word. I have noted accordingly in the kRti.

Regarding 'vidAdi' - 'vid' means both 'to know' and 'knowledge'; in view of the ensuing word 'Adi', 'vid' would IMHO mean 'knowledge' and not 'to know'. Therefore, I have corrected the kRti by substituting 'vida' with 'vid'. However, I am doubtful about 'Adi'; If we translate this word as 'etc', the sentence seems to be incomplete. Therefore, I have translated as 'emanating from'.

Regarding SaNmatha - though 'mata' means 'opinion', in view of the word 'SaN' - 'six' preceding this word, it would mean six forms of formal worship prevalent in the Hinduism.

Regarding your concern about mistakes etc which alter meanings, I have been pointing these out in this thread and the parallel thread 'Rendering of kRtis'. There are, in fact, many glaring errors which give contrary meanings.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 07 Apr 2007, 19:30

Thyagaraja Kriti nIvu brOva valenamma - rAga sAvEri in praise of Mother dharma samvardhani - tiruvaiyAru - has been posted in the following websites (the kRti is not yet listed in our wiki) -
http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... namma.html
http://thyagaraja.sulekha.com/blog/post ... avam-8.htm

In the caraNa 2 of the kRti, the following words occur -

nAyeDa vancana sEyaka pasiDi SilA kanja
sAyakunanniTa nIvaniyenciti

"Please do not deceive me; I have considered that You are existent in everything like gold, stone, Lotus (or brahmA) and Cupid."

In view of the word 'anniTa' - 'everything', there is a list of items mentioned herein. The list is 'pasiDi', 'SilA', 'kanja' and 'sAyakuDu' These words have been translated as 'gold', 'stone' 'lotus (or brahmA)' and 'cupid' respectively. However, the translation is not satisfactory because they do not seem to belong any single category.

It is very doubtful whether the meanings of these words have been correctly derived or not.

'pasiDi' stands for 'gold';
'SilA' seems to mean 'stone', but not very sure;

'kanja' - Sri tyAgarAja uses the word 'kanjaja' to mean brahmA in the kRti 'Sri kAnta nIyeDa' - rAga bhAvapriya. As per telugu dictionary, 'kanjuDu' means 'brahmA'.

sAyakunanniTa - this can be split as sAyakuni + anniTa. 'sAyakuDu' means 'cupid'.
'sAyaka' also means 'arrow', 'sword' and '5'. Sri tyAgarAja uses the word 'sAyaka' to mean 'arrow' in many kRtis, but has not used 'sAyakuDu' anywhere else.

As 'lotus' is considered only of the flowers of arrows of cupid, it is not clear whether the words 'kanja sAyakuDu' - (lotus arrowed) are to be taken together.

Any suggestions?

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 07 Apr 2007, 19:45

It can make sense as a whole when we consider the 3 major distractions/sources of mAyA as heNNu, honnu, maNNu (in kannaDa- woman, gold and land)/ pasiDi is honnu/gold/riches; SilA means stone yes and by extension can mean maNNu (mud or land); kanjaSAyakuDu is as you have pointed manmatha or Cupid.

The words here do not naturally lead in this direction but the similarity is easily seen. But I have never heard manmatha being referred as kanjasAyaka as lotus has no special privilege over the other 4 flower-arrows (in the case of manmatha). Perhaps it is pancasAyaka only here?

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 07 Apr 2007, 20:07

drs,
Thanks for your prompt response.
I considered on the lines suggested by you. But 'kanja' and 'sAyaka' are the problem words. All the books I refer, mention as 'kanja' - the Tamil version of TSV/AKG is however a little doubtful as 'கஞ்ச' (kanca).
I agree with you that 'kanja sAyaka' does not mean cupid. But then 'kanja' is distracting.
I will leave a note in the kRti that, as suggested by you, that it should be 'panca sAyaka'.
Thanks again.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 07 Apr 2007, 22:21

drs,
I looked up the Sanskrit dictionary. 'kam' also means 'love', 'desire' etc.- http://webapps.uni-koeln.de/tamil/ refers.
Probably 'kAma' has been derived from 'kam'. In that way 'kamja' might be correct -'love or desire born cupid' - kamja sAyaka.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 07 Apr 2007, 23:22

But Cupid was not born of any love/desire. And the sanskrit dictionary does not give the meaning of manmatha for kaMja but only that of Brahma apart from also meaning hair. I dont think T would have created a new word making the meaning obscure in the process, particularly when there is an obvious choice of pancasAyaka. My 2 paise worth

shishya · Post by **shishya** » 09 Apr 2007, 19:19

vgvindan,

Do you happen to have the lyrics in telugu that you can share?

Thanks

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 09 Apr 2007, 19:26

shishya,
The telugu version of the kRti is available in the following websites -
http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co â€¦ namma.html
http://thyagaraja.sulekha.com/blog/post â€¦ avam-8.htm

shishya · Post by **shishya** » 09 Apr 2007, 19:44

I am assuming that your original is in Tamil and I am assuming that you transcribed the krithi into other languages. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Given, this assumption, I looked at the words silA and sAyaku. Is it possible that in the Tamil alphabet, s and Z are written the same way? The Tamil text suggests so.

In Telugu Zila means rock sila means "nail" as in hammer a nail into the wall.
similarly sAyaka means arrow but ZAyaka means "without doing", (it is a vikRti for sEyaka).

These words, when combined differently, may give different meaning. Can you please verify my assumtions?

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 09 Apr 2007, 20:50

shishya,
I refer to four books for translation of tyAgarAja kRtis. These are -
(1) Compositions of Tyagaraja - by Sri TK Govinda Rao - in Devanagari and Roman.
(2) The Spiritual Heritage of Tyagaraja - by Sri C Ramanujachari in Devanagari.
(3) Sadguru Sri Tyagaraja Svami Keerthanaigal - by Sri TS Vasudevan and Sri AK Gopalan (Tamil only)
(4) Adi Tyagaraja Kirtanams - by Sri KV Srinivasa Iyengar in Telugu.

I have compared all these books and the version given does not vary.

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 09 Apr 2007, 21:16

drshrikaanth wrote:It can make sense as a whole when we consider the 3 major distractions/sources of mAyA as heNNu, honnu, maNNu (in kannaDa- woman, gold and land)/ pasiDi is honnu/gold/riches; SilA means stone yes and by extension can mean maNNu (mud or land); kanjaSAyakuDu is as you have pointed manmatha or Cupid.

The words here do not naturally lead in this direction but the similarity is easily seen. But I have never heard manmatha being referred as kanjasAyaka as lotus has no special privilege over the other 4 flower-arrows (in the case of manmatha). Perhaps it is pancasAyaka only here?

Perhaps Manmathais being referred so because the lotus happens to be among his 5 arrows of
(aravinda, ashoka,chuta,nava mallika,nIlOtpala) - Both aravinda and nIlOtpala are varieties of Lotus?

-Ramakriya

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 09 Apr 2007, 21:31

I came across the word 'kaMjasU' in the Monier's Dictionary meaning 'God of Love'. How this meaning is derived is not known.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 09 Apr 2007, 23:25

Yes VGV- even I saw that word. Am unable to think of a derivation.

chetana · Post by **chetana** » 10 Apr 2007, 14:42

deleted

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 12 Apr 2007, 21:24

I have posted tyAgarAja kRti enta nErcina - rAga Suddha dhanyAsi (udaya ravi candrika) in our wiki - http://www.rasikas.org/wiki/entenerchina

In the kRti, I need clarification in the anupallavi words 'Sri kAnta svAnta siddhAntamaina mArga cinta'.

The pallavi/anupallavi and the translation is given hereunder -

P enta nErcina enta jUcina
enta vAralaina kAnta dAsulE

A santatambu SrI kAnta svAnta
siddhAntamaina mArga cinta lEni vAr(enta)

P - No matter how erudite one is and how much one has seen (the World), and howsoever high and mighty one be, all are slaves of women.

A - Those who do not ceaselessly have the thought in the path, (understanding) that Lord viShNu (beloved of lakShmI) to be the Indweller, as their final aim, no matter how erudite one is and how much one has seen the World, and howsoever high and mighty one be, all are slaves of women.

SrI kAnta svAnta siddhAntamu â€“ In the book of TKG, this has been translated as â€˜life conducive to righteousness and in consonance with the will of SrI rAmaâ€™; in the book of CR, as â€˜one who has not bestowed constant thought on the right path that is after the heart of the Lord of Lakshmiâ€™; in the book of TSV/AKG (Tamil) as, â€˜those who not dedicate in the path of dhyAna and bhajana of SrIpatiâ€™. In my humble opinion, by â€˜svAntaâ€™ SrI tyAgarAja seems to refer to oneâ€™s own heart and not that of Lord.

I invite suggestions and clarifications.

chetana · Post by **chetana** » 13 Apr 2007, 11:27

I agree with VGV. The TSV/AKG (Tamil) translation is more accurate I believe.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 16 Apr 2007, 23:26

In the tyAgarAja Kriti - sAmaja vara gamana - rAga hindOLam, the following words occur in caraNa.

vEda SirO mAtRja sapta svara nAdAcala dIpa

UpaniShads are referred as 'vEda ziras'.
Sri tyAgaraja, in many other places, states that the sapta svara are born of nAdOMkAra.

Therefore, the words 'vEda SirO mAtRja' would be translated as 'born of (nAda) OMkAra - mother of upaniShads'. Is OMkAra considered as 'mother of upaniShads'?

mAtR also means 'one who has true knowledge'. In gItA, kRSNa says 'vEdAnta kRt vEda vidEvacAham' (Ch 15.15). Accordingly, by 'vEda SirO mAtR' would be translated as 'paramAtmA' - the true knower of vEda and vEdAnta - and hence - sapta svara born of paramAtma.

As OMkAra and paramAtmA are not same - Sri tyAgarAja calls paramAtmA as OMkAra dhAma' 'OMkAra panjara kIra' - there seems to be a contradiction.

In invite suggestions and clarifications.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 20 Apr 2007, 18:47

Where is Ayodhya - in UP? What is the solution for the Ayodhya tangle? - Read Sri tyAgarAja's views - http://www.rasikas.org/wiki/nadachinadachi

vijayagopal · Post by **vijayagopal** » 22 Apr 2007, 14:07

Friends,
As in Kanjadalayatakshi, kanja means a lotus. That too of red variety. Aravindam is the same. It means Kanja sayaka is Manmadha.
Pasidi is Gold. It is an accha Telugu word. In the same manner, Zila as a pure old Telugu word can be a nail or an arrow. A similar word muliki is also used for arrow. Pasidi zIla or sIla can be a golden arrow.

In the Telugu version of the song found in the link, the word is shown with a long lA and a short Zi. It must be a mistake. If it at all refers to a stone it has to be a short Zi and a short la. The deergham on la does not mean anything. There is no place for a stone in the context at all.

Naa yeda vancana sEyaka, is "without cheating in my case". Not Please dont deceive me. If it is sEyaku, that meaning can be taken.
That is another matter.

All in all I am not able to understand the reference to Manmadha in this place.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 22 Apr 2007, 20:46

vijay,
Keeping in view the context, 'pasiDi', 'zilA' and 'kanja sAyaka' - all belong to the same group. drs has correctly pointed out that these are 'three distractions'; in tamil this is called 'mUvAsai' - 'maN, peN, pon' - 'land' 'woman' and 'gold'. drs has given the corresponding kannada words. Accordingly, only 'gold' - pasiDi is directly relatable. Others - 'land' and 'woman' are indirectly related as 'zilA' and 'kanja sAyaka'. drs has suggested that it should be 'panca sAyaka' for 'cupid' which is an indirect reference to 'woman'.

I request you to refer to the whole kRti given the blog sites referred to (Post No 65).
Therefore, any other meaning, like 'nail' for 'zilA' should be with reference to the context.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 28 Apr 2007, 00:43

To find out the origin of the word 'serendipity' - http://www.rasikas.org/wiki/badalika-dira

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 29 Apr 2007, 16:16

Thyagaraja Kriti evarani nirNayinciri - rAga dEvAmRta varShini (Or nAda cintAmaNi) is given hereunder (as this is not yet listed in our wiki).

Please refer to the Notes -

Pallavi

evarani nirNayincirirA ninn(e)Tl(A)rAdhincirirA naravarul(evarani)

Anupallavi

SivuD(a)nO mAdhavuD(a)nO kamala bhavuD(a)nO para-brahmam(a)nO ninn(evarani)

Charanam

Siva mantramunaku ma jIvamu mAdhava mantramunaku rA jIvamu(y)I\
vivaramu telisina ghanulaku mrokkeda vitaraNa guNa tyAgarAja vinuta (evarani)

Meaning

Pallavi : What did the most eminent of humans determine as to who You are? And, how did they worship You?

Anupallavi : What did the most Eminent of humans determine as to who You are â€“ as Lord Siva or as Lord viShNu or as brahmA (One seated in Lotus) or as the Supreme Lord?

Charanam : For the Siva mantra (OM namaSSivAya), â€˜maâ€™ is the soul; for the viShNu mantra (OM NamO nArAyanAya), â€˜rAâ€™ is the soul; I salute these great personages who understand this detail. O Lord having the quality of munificience praised by this tyAgarAja!

Notes

Pallavi : nara varu(levarani) â€“ this is how it is given in the book of TKG; in the book of TSV/AKG, it is given as nara varu (evarani); in the book of CR, this is given as naravara (evarani). If nara varu is correct, then it could be connected to pallavi. If nara vara is correct, then it should be treated as an epithet of Lord and cannot be connected to pallavi.

It is stated that Gopalakrishna Bharati (Tamil composer) â€“ a contemporary of tyAgarAja visted latter and sang a song (sabhApatikku) eulogising Lord Siva â€“ that there is no God equal to Lord Siva. It is stated that then and there, SrI tyAgarAja extempore composed this song. If this is true, then â€˜nara varulu evaraniâ€™ would be the correct rendering.

Anupallavi : kamala bhavuDu â€“ this is how it is given in the books of CR and TSV/AKG. However, in the book of TKG, it is given as kamalA bhavuDu. As the word here means â€˜lOtusâ€™, â€˜kamalaâ€™ is appropriate (kamalA â€“ means lakSmI).

Charanam : ma jIvanamu â€“ In all the books it is given as mA jIvamu. From the discourse referred below, it is clear that the (second) syllable of namazzivAya is referred â€“ ie ma and not mA. Similarly, rA is the second syllable of nArAyaNAya; there rA jIvamu is correct.

Charanam : Siva mantra â€“ mAdhava mantra - Please visit website - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/ ... ntra3.html- for discourse of kAnci paramAcArya candra SEkharEndra sarasvati on tAraka nAma .

Charanam : tyAgarAja vinuta â€“ The caraNa ends with these words in the books of CR and TSV/AKG. However, the word ninnu is given at the end in the book of TKG.

Books referenced are â€“
CR - The Spiritual Heritage of Tyagaraja by Shri C Ramanujachariar (this kRti is not available in this book)
ATK - Adi Tyagaraja Kirtanams by Shri KV Srinivas Iyengar (Telugu)
TKG - Compositions of Tyagaraja by Shri TK Govinda Rao
TSV/AKG - Sadguru Shri Thyagaraja Swamy Keerthanaigal (Tamil) by Shri TS Vasudevan and Shri AK Gopalan

vijayagopal · Post by **vijayagopal** » 02 May 2007, 18:24

Dear Sir, I made it clear that I am not clear about the reference to Manmadha.
Mine is enthusiasm only and not erudition.

As for the present Kriti, most of the people sing it as naravarulu+evarani, which as you say is right.
It can not be a sambodhana to Rama. I dont think I have not heard any rendition where naravara is used.

A similar confusion is there with regard to Durmarga charadhamulaku, and Durmarga charadhamulanu.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 05 May 2007, 17:50

In the kRti pAhi parama dayALO - rAga kApi, Sri tyAgarAja uses the following epithets -
krUra mAnava radhAra and kRpa rAgadE.

In the case of radhAra, vidAra has been given as alternative in the book of TKG.
â€˜raâ€™ means â€˜fireâ€™; and â€˜dhAraâ€™ means â€˜rainâ€™; may be SrI tyAgarAja uses this to mean â€˜rain that extinguishes the fire called wicked peopleâ€™.

In case of kRpa rAgadE, in the book of TSV/AKG, it is given as kRpA sAgara.
One of the meanings of â€˜rAgadaâ€™ is â€˜crystalâ€™. â€˜Crystalâ€™ comes under the general category of â€˜maNiâ€™ - gemstones. Probably, SrI tyAgarAja is using the word in the same sense as â€˜wish-crystalâ€™ (cintA maNi) â€“ â€˜mercy crystalâ€™.

Can someone clarifiy these words?

vijayagopal · Post by **vijayagopal** » 05 May 2007, 19:34

Govindan Sir,

You will pardon me when I say that your explanation of the words radhAra and ragadE are far fetched.

Tyagayya was more a composer than a poet. He never made use of complicated samAsams, as you know.
Some times he also let go the grammar and other rules.

I am sure krUra mAnava vidAra and kRpA sAgarA are the more appropriate words in this context.
I am sure you will agree with me.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 05 May 2007, 19:56

vijay,
While I would be more than happy to use the alternative words - because that is the easy way out, I cannot wish away the words given in the books.

Though the books I refer have been written painstakingly, when certain peculiar words are encountered for which they do not understand the meaning, they gloss over it. I have come across many such instances. One such example is in the kRti 'pAhi kalyANa rAma' - rAga kApi wherein he uses the word 'nAdaidO-tanamu' which means 'my saumAngalyam'.

Regarding zrI tyAgarAja using uncommon samAsams, there are many such instances where he has 'coined' new words - some of the examples are 'vi-vAha' (garuDa), 'bha-rAja' (moon), 'bhESa' (moon), 'upavalAri' (vAmana) etc which, according to Dr. V Raghavan '...may fall within the scope of literary flaws according to alankAra SAstras....' (Introductory Thesis to the Book 'The Spiritual Heritage of Tyagaraja' by Sri C Ramanujachariar.

Therefore, before dismissing the words 'radhAra' and 'rAgada', I would like to invite suggestions.

vijayagopal · Post by **vijayagopal** » 07 May 2007, 14:43

I think there should be a seperate discussion on

The simplicity of Tyagayyas expressions

The dialogue form in his compositions

Unusual Pada prayogams by him

I am not trying to divert the topic. Further discussion the matter is welcome.
As for the pthantarams, I am an enthusiast and not an expert.

I feel Tyaga Brahmam used his vocabulary without being too much aware about it.
The devotion with which he sang takes the front seat.
The feeling in every word he says is too very evident.

I heard a discussion about the usage Dinamai vamas tilaka lAvaNya.
I was told it should have been LAvaNya tilaka.
To me the song is good either way.

I also propose a new thread on the prasna kritis of Tyagaraja.
His questions are of various types and are in various moods.
I am wondering if the swara sthanams of the end points of these questions have any relevance to the mood.

108talas · Post by **108talas** » 07 May 2007, 15:58

With the 'tilaka' on, there is certain lAvaNyam. Hence the lyrics as such seems to be correct. Saint TyAgarAja might have meant that.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 07 May 2007, 16:45

kRti 'dinamaNi vamSa' - rAga harikAmbhOji has been posted in our wiki -
http://www.rasikas.org/wiki/dinamani-vamsa

Hence the lyrics as such seems to be correct. Saint TyAgarAja might have meant that.

vaSishTar vAyAl brahma RSi
Even if Sri tyAgarAja comes alive today, he will have to sing that way only because the tradition says so.

kmrasika · Post by **kmrasika** » 08 May 2007, 12:17

vgvindan, I'm sorry to to -post this on a tangent but I wondered whether the kriti, "nI balamA? nAma balamA?" in Anandabhairavi is a composition of tyAgarAja?

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 08 May 2007, 13:20

km,
To the best of my knowledge, there are only three tyAgarAja kRtis in Ananda bhairavi rAga - 'nIkE teliyaka', 'rAma rAmA nI vAramu' and 'kSIra sAgara vihAra'. The kRti mentioned by you is not found.

ignoramus · Post by **ignoramus** » 08 May 2007, 14:31

i think there was a commercial release of BMK singing this quite some time back. it had nannu brova nee in abhogi as the 4th song in side A of the cassette and nee balama was the song just prior. but then maybe i am wrong

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 08 May 2007, 14:37

ignoramus
With BMK concert listings , it is prudent to first Check if it is BMK's own composition AND ONLY THEN, set out to see if it is a Tyagaraja or a .......... Krithi.

vageyakara · Post by **vageyakara** » 08 May 2007, 16:05

Hallo ignoramus,
Nannu BrOva neekinta taamasamaa-ABHOGI IS a thyaga raja kriti
Ref:www.karnatik.com/c2584.shtml
Ramaraj

ignoramus · Post by **ignoramus** » 08 May 2007, 16:52

right coolji. what i wanted to say was nee balama was there in that release of Sangeetha( i think), yes it the case of BMK u cant be sure. but i remember that neebalama was listed as a T composition

annapoorne · Post by **annapoorne** » 08 May 2007, 17:44

I have learnt one " nee jesina vichitramu evaru jeyuthura oh paramasambava sri pranatharthihara ' in Neelambari. In the charanam you have ' sishta thyaga raju kashtamu ganama". Has anybody heard this krithi?.Is it Sri Thyagaraja"s composition?

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 08 May 2007, 17:53

The following are the nIlAmbari rAga kRtis of Sri tyAgarAja -
uyyAlalUgavayya - ennaga manasuku - nIkE daya rAka - mATADavEmi -lAliyUgavE - SrI rAma rAma rAma (nIlAmbari or gOpikA vasantam)

The word 'vicitramu' appears in the tyAgarAja kRti 'EmandunE vicitramu' - rAga SrImaNi. There is no other tyAgarAja kRti where the word 'vicitram' appears.