'Visa problems for Cleveland Bound Artistes

Bhindi · Post by **Bhindi** » 14 Mar 2008, 10:03

Artists including GJR Krishnan, Gayathri Venkataraghavan, Vellore Ramabhadran and 13 others were denied visas to enter the US. What now??? All artists were scheduled to perform this weekend in San Diego for the first ever music festival.

mri_fan · Post by **mri_fan** » 14 Mar 2008, 10:18

How did you find that out?

mri_fan · Post by **mri_fan** » 14 Mar 2008, 10:29

And also, if you don't mind, which of the artists were denied Visa?

meena · Post by **meena** » 14 Mar 2008, 10:41

Just guessing.. the Indian fine arts academy @ San Diego thats hosting the festival this week must have passed the news .

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 14 Mar 2008, 10:51

This is shocking indeed if true. Someone influential should be persuaded it take it up with ICCR

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 14 Mar 2008, 11:21

A visa scam was busted in Chennai 2 days back when it was found that cine artists were giving forged documents to obtain visa. A few arrests were made and there was a press conference by consulate authorities warning of seriuos action. This could be a fall out of this incident but it seems to be knee jerk reaction from the US consulate.

appu · Post by **appu** » 14 Mar 2008, 11:54

There seems to be another week before the aradhana begins. Maybe the visas will be approved by then. Not to mention what a financial loss this could be, what with the cost of getting the visa and flight tickets etc.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 14 Mar 2008, 13:20

This is dreadful news, not just for the one event, but for the future livelihoods of our artists.

Even if they ever could, our artists who have come to rely on the income from foreign tours, particular US, will find it tough to live without that income.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 14 Mar 2008, 17:13

I really hope this is not true. and if so, can be sorted out soon.

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 14 Mar 2008, 17:34

The US's visa policies since 9/11 have been dreadfully reactive and paranoid. What a shame for rasikas, organisers, and the artistes themselves.

mri_fan · Post by **mri_fan** » 14 Mar 2008, 21:50

They've had visa difficulties before, but in general have been able to overcome them in time for the festival...hopefully that happens here too.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 14 Mar 2008, 22:39

There was an anecdote related to Sanjay Subramaniyan I remember reading somewhere. When Sanjay went for the visa interview, the office asked him what his profession was. Sanjay replied: Carnatic Classical music Singer. The officer asked him to prove it and Sanjay belted out a Thodi Alapana for the officer...

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 14 Mar 2008, 22:57

Relax, people. The first group of musicians are at the airport, visas in hand, even as this is being typed out. As pointed out, it is due to the fact that people posing as "artists" of the cine field attempted to get US visas with bogus documents and so all "artists" were automatically under suspicion.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 14 Mar 2008, 22:59

Just heard from one of the artistes personally that they all got their visas yesterday. The Consular general in Chennai intervened to take of the details.

Cleveland's festival (and may be even part of San Diego's) should be taking place without substitutions.

There are a few thousand rasikas in N. America that should be quite relieved.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 14 Mar 2008, 23:05

mahavishnu wrote:Just heard from one of the artistes personally that they all got their visas yesterday. The Consular general in Chennai intervened to take of the details.

Cleveland's festival (and may be even part of San Diego's) should be taking place without substitutions.

Visas were issued today not yesterday.

Slight changes were made to San Diego's programme.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 14 Mar 2008, 23:55

Visas were issued today not yesterday.

That depends on what time zone you are in, I suppose. Potatoes PotAtoes.
I'm just glad that the festival is on as scheduled.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 15 Mar 2008, 00:27

mahavishnu wrote:Just heard from one of the artistes personally that they all got their visas yesterday. The Consular general in Chennai intervened to take of the details. ... ... ...

Which

a) confirms that the story was true

and

b) shows that at least the American Consular General has some sense and has been able to use it.

Now all they have to cope with is the USA Immigration officials, and the TSA --- both of which have, and continue, to act as a sort of Don't Vist America campaign. They've certainly put me off the idea.

rasaali · Post by **rasaali** » 15 Mar 2008, 02:56

vasanthakokilam wrote:There was an anecdote related to Sanjay Subramaniyan I remember reading somewhere. When Sanjay went for the visa interview, the office asked him what his profession was. Sanjay replied: Carnatic Classical music Singer. The officer asked him to prove it and Sanjay belted out a Thodi Alapana for the officer...

This is similar to THV's anecdote about having to prove to some customs officer in the West that he was indeed carrying a musical instrument and not just any earthen pot.

Apparently the lucky persons at that spot got treated to an impromptu ghatam tani avartanam! I imagine this would rate as one of the more eye opening and diversity enriching experiences of the customs official...

Anyway, the artistes getting their visas is definitely good news!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 15 Mar 2008, 06:58

Requesting mods to change the name of the thread to 'Visa problems for Cleveland Bound Artistes??'.
Let there be mangaLa ISai for the start of the Cleveland Festival...

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 15 Mar 2008, 08:10

A visa scam was busted in Chennai 2 days back when it was found that cine artists were giving forged documents to obtain visa. A few arrests were made and there was a press conference by consulate authorities warning of seriuos action. This could be a fall out of this incident but it seems to be knee jerk reaction from the US consulate.

What are the documents that US embassy would ask anyway feom the artistes and even the CIne stars I wonder. They are not going there for a work permit. It is only a sponsored programme.

It is only students visa and work permit that they have to carry a host of documents.

mri_fan · Post by **mri_fan** » 15 Mar 2008, 08:40

I understand there's a fair amount of paperwork...

According to Sri Sundaram, he used to/still may hold sessions when all the visiting musicians in groups to fill out the paper work together...there appears to be a fair amount.

Oh to be a fly on the wall to hear what they talk about...

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 15 Mar 2008, 08:56

Good that it's been sorted out. Like Nick said, now they have to face suspicious and abrasive customs officers at US airports.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 15 Mar 2008, 09:00

Nick

Don't they have to pay tax on the income they make in US? I guess India does not have a tax-sharing agreement with US....

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 15 Mar 2008, 11:10

Thank god good sense prevailed...hope the festival goes off smoothly

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 15 Mar 2008, 11:38

Dear INTERESTED MEMBERS,

I would like to request persons who have great concerns but incomplete knowledge on the details not to waste their or anyone else's time & energy (as well as network bandwidth) reporting WRONG OR INCOMPLETE INFORMATION. I WILL BE SHORTLY BE WASTING MORE TIME BUT WILL REPORT AN ACCURATE ACCOUNT. OBVIOUSLY LAST NIGHT'S ATTEMPTS BY ME TO QUELL RUMOURS WERE NOT ADEQUATE.

I request persons planning to attend the festival to please come & celebrate this fantastic event in CLEVELAND THIS YEAR.

V K Viswanathan
Cleveland Thyagaraja Aradhana Committee Member

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 15 Mar 2008, 12:59

VKV

I don't understand your last post. An issue was reported and people chipped in what they knew. If you are in a better position to clarify please do so.

What others do with their time or bandwidth is their own problem and you have no business to comment. If you are not in agreement with what was wriiten you can post a reply or ignore.

I am sure that no one in this forum is interested in spreading rumours and if you have proof of someone doing so please post the specific details instead of commenting about all those who posted inh this thread

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 15 Mar 2008, 13:44

There are no material rammifications for whatever has transpired in this thread, right from the outbreak of "rumour" to the others' commentary. I see no reason for anybody to get hot and bothered about it.

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 15 Mar 2008, 14:57

It's clear that being a key organizer of the Aradhana, VKV didn't want this 'issue' to keep people away from the event. Organizers do worry about rumours (or news, depending on your perspective) such as this spreading and affecting the success of their event.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 15 Mar 2008, 15:20

The following is a summary of my notes I took when I talked to Cleveland Sri.V.V.Sundaram about the "Visa Problems for Cleveland Bound Artistes":
1) Tuesday 11th: There was a raid in U.S.Consulate in Chennai which ended up with 3 persons landing in jail (arrested by local police) in connection with the published 200 cine related artists with falsifying their visa related applications.
2) Wednesday 12th: The visa appointments for 13 artists bound for Cleveland and San Diego Festival was at 7:30 A.M. all were denied visas & V.V.S. was called by G.J.R.Krishnan around 10:30 A.M. with this information. V.V.S. rightaway called the U.S.Consul General - The C G had shared the dais several times with V.V. S & was the Chief Guest at the Sustaining Sampradya Function in Chennai where 16 of the students who performed in the concert in Cleveland last year-heard VVS & especially when he pointed out that for over 35 years the record was IMPECCABLE & none of the artists had violated any rules or overstayed etc.. Within half an hour the chief of the Visa section called VVS & asked him to mail the request for visas. He subsequently called VVS at least 3 tiimes & gave appointments to all the applicants on Friday again. They were all granted visas immediately and left for San DFiego on Friday night itself.
The U.S.Officials were courteous, helpful, professional,supportive and went out of the way in how they could help in the process. VVS had only admiration and praise for their attention to necessary details, documentation etc that were needed to proces the applications as well as their totally helpful attitude.
The artists got their Visas at around 5:30 P.M. on Friday. At 9:30 P.M., it was found that the flight reservations for the artists were not there. Between 9:30 and 10:30 P.M. 9 seats were found in Air India Flight and 2 in Singapore Airlines flights of the same evening. Gayathri Venkataraghavan acted as the coordinator of the group. At one point, when there was only 90 minutes to the take off time and no reservations were in evidence, she decided to have faith in the system and drove straight to the airport without tickets for any of them. All the artists were waiting on the curb side, and Air India Manager at the Airport came outside the security area, greeted them, handed over the tickets that were printed in their airport office and took them inside.... VVS performed another of his miracles by somehow getting them ALL seats on flights USBOUND THAT NIGHT ITSELF; Their flights enabled them to fulfil their concert commitments in time! In this process he missed his own flight & could not be in Sandiego to accept the award that he was scheduled to receive in the San Diego Thyagaraja Festival.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 15 Mar 2008, 17:35

Request away... you'll never stop people talking, and if we all wait until we have full and complete facts about something then forums all over the internet will grind to a halt.

You might do it without SHOUTING, though: it isn't polite.

And it doesn't look like people have been doing what you say, since your welcome announcement, so it would be nice if you didn't waste my network bandwidth with your scolding.

Ganesh, I have never been involved with the application for visas for proffesional artists, but I would guess that most countries consider it a working visit. India certainly does.

CMLover, just reminding you, I'm a Brit by origin: I know nothing of US tax. My not-entirely-a-guess is that such artists visiting Britain receive currency notes, with which they return to India. But this really is an area in which guesswork is mere speculation, and I'd hate to think of poor VKV's bandwidth wastage as my post loads on his screen, whether he bothers to read it or not!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 15 Mar 2008, 17:39

VKV, you subsequent post is most welcome.

It is a glimpse into what those who organise international events have to suffer, and the work that gets done behind the scenes.

Thank you for that.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 15 Mar 2008, 19:41

from "Pippa Passes"(2008 edition

The year's at the spring
And the snow is just gone;
Days are getting longer
Cleveland's getting warm
US Consul Almighty beaming
(CM) Artist's on Air India wing;
(Blithe) Rasikas honk your horn;
VVS's in his Chennai (smiling) -
All's right with the world!

Robert (in heaven not)Frowning (1812-1889)

(after)Pippa Passes (1841) pt. 1,l.221

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 15 Mar 2008, 20:24

Very nice, CML

It remains to be seen how the individual artists, who may not have someone able to pull strings fare in the future.

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 15 Mar 2008, 20:44

Arts and Culture is a separate category and I am sure all the artists got their visa under that. I am very impressed with the narration of events and the positve end result. Good luck fans all over US.

I understand from Ganesan of Pittsburg, who cooks food for all the guests, that the organization feeds about 4000 people during those 5 days. What a mammoth task just for food only!

fuddyduddy · Post by **fuddyduddy** » 15 Mar 2008, 20:53

Glad that the celebrations will continue as planned...

If the artistes had to get a flight on Friday, couldnt they have applied visa a little earlier to avoid last minute tension? Maybe there is some policy that they cant apply much in advance and I could be wrong... anyway am really glad everybody worked as a team and got it sorted out.

s_hari · Post by **s_hari** » 16 Mar 2008, 05:10

I am glad that everything went out smoothly... Many thanks to Sri Sundaram for successfully resolving this...

Yes, visa need to be planned in advance, not just a day before departure. Atleast in IT sector, getting visa appointment is possible in 2 weeks time after request these days.

I am not sure what type of visa is processed for artists, so not comments on how long will it take to get visa appointment.

-hari

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 16 Mar 2008, 09:13

I particularly want to thank ragam-thalam lover for succintly yet explicitly in two lines explaining the ramifications of statements made and their possible implications; I am sure EVERYONE wants events of this magnitude involving their personal vacations and thousands of dollars in expenses on their part (not to mention the organisers) to succeed.
I am sorry if feelings were hurt or sentiments were ruffled; That was not my intention anyways.......
I do conclude it was all worth it because it resulted in cm lover's fantastic poem! When is he/she going to have a reading of his poems? I am willing to sponsor it. vkv

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 16 Mar 2008, 10:16

Dear mri_fan,
A few of the well known "fly on the wall" happenings both happy & sad to give a real feel of what takes place during visa forms filling by artists in VVS'S residence & assorted related happenings......
Sri Ramabhadran, son Mukund, Ramani Sir, Dancers, other musicians including Aruna Sayeeram were in the living room. Laser printer and broadband connectivity in the computer. Passports, certificates, copies of citations to bolster the application all over the floor and dining table. Papanasam Ashok Ramani, Lalgudi GJR Krishnan, Vidya Kalyanaraman acting as computer scribes. Manda Sudharani's daughter Ravali (14 years old) blissfully singing to this elite audience and getting appreciative nods. Manda Sudharani discussing pallavi intricacies. Vellore Ramabhadran singing (bringing memories of GNB, Ariyakkudi,Madurai Mani Iyer, and Semmangudi) and doing abhinaya (bringing memories of Balasaraswathi and Kamala). Rest of musicians in awe of Vellore Ramabhadran's versatility and virtuosity. Aruna Sayeeram talking about her new projects. Lakshmi Rangarajan and daughter Subiksha, Rama Ravi and Nanditha Ravi dropping in picking up forms or pitching in. Frayed nerves as tickets were not as per individual requirements. Concert commitments and conflicts with visa appointment. (Oh, I am in Vizag on that day; can't you please change the date for me ?) VVS getting calls from ofice and getting on a conference call with clients in the next room in the midst of all this. Gomathi Sundaram cooking lunch for them, and plying them with coffee, tea or fruit juice and sweets and savories from Grand Sweets. Gomathi telling sternly that Jayalakshmi Santhanam should not touch the sweets because of her diabetic condition and pleading with Ramabhadran to go slow on the sweets for the same reason. Seperate folders for each artist with their visa appointment papers. General talk about what to say and what not to say. Young artists absolutely in awe of the seniors. R. K. Srikantan Sir humility personified, quietly expounding on Harikambhodhi, and Dhikshithar's Thodi. Respectful listening. Phone ringing constantly. (I can't do this. I need somebody to fill my application; just bring it to me for my signature. OK done.). Everybody happy, laughing, sharing anecdotes, having lunch together. Tthe dog Casey running around, sniffing at everybody and shamelessly begging for food. Gomathi pleading not to feed the dog. Everybody ignoring the plea. Dancer Rhadha hugging the dog and giving all her food to Casey. Gomathi threatening to lock up the dog, and the young artists protesting.

2007 March. Repeat of the above scene. Lakshmi Rangarajan, Aruna Sayeeram, and Ramabhadran and others in the living room. Forms are getting filled. General laughter. 11:30 A.M. The family cook felt ill and looking at the august gathering, not wanting to disturb anybody, quietly goes to the backyard and into the garden. Had a massive heart attack and died instantly. The servant maid informed VVS that the cook had fainted in the garden. VVS looked for the pulse and there was none. Form filling was going on. Gomathi and driver took Lalitha Mami to the Malar Hospital. Lakshmi Rangarajan's husband is a Medical Doctor. Nothing could be done. Gomathi arranged for her family to do the formalities,came back at 4:00 P.M., had her bath and then had her first meal of the day. None of the artists except for Lakshmi Rangarajan knew what happened. Forms filled. Visas obtained. Festival celebrated.
These are a few snippets of what actually the fly on the wall would have seen & heard if it was allowed to survive!
vkv

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 16 Mar 2008, 10:37

FROM "The fly on the wall " to what happened in the corridors of Cleveland Festival--THIS WILL CONCLUDE THIS ACCOUNT.
University Center Auditorium. Afternoon session. 2 1/2 hour concert by a major artist going on. Good sized crowd inside enjoying the concert. Ravali, daughter of Manda Sudharani and VVS shooting the breeze in the corridor. VVS on a whim asking Ravali to sing a few kriti-s in the corridor. Ravali looked around, sat on the floor of the cooridor and started singing with absolutely no inhibition. Passers by curious. A few gathered around. Soon it swelled into a small crowd. Ravali singing her heart out. Now somebody spread the news inside the auditorium about Ravali's concert outside. Audience started coming from the auditorium for this informal concert. Crowd became bigger and bigger. A few artists in the audience and saying "Besh". Manda Sudharani proud and thrilled. Jaya TV started shooting the scene. VVS put a stop to the singing at a convenient point. Promised Ravali a slot inside the auditorium at an appropriate time. vkv

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 16 Mar 2008, 11:05

Great stuff! So sad to hear about the cook.

Those with energy and commitment to mount these events, well, I take my hat off to them, because I know I couldn't do it.

I'm good at getting touchy on internet forums, which achieves nothing --- sorry about that.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 16 Mar 2008, 17:24

VKV sir, that was great. Thanks for sharing these.....

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 16 Mar 2008, 21:54

Who's going to be the next 'fly on the wall'?

nivedita · Post by **nivedita** » 16 Mar 2008, 22:05

2007 March. Repeat of the above scene. Lakshmi Rangarajan, Aruna Sayeeram, and Ramabhadran and others in the living room. Forms are getting filled. General laughter. 11:30 A.M. The family cook felt ill and looking at the august gathering, not wanting to disturb anybody, quietly goes to the backyard and into the garden. Had a massive heart attack and died instantly. The servant maid informed VVS that the cook had fainted in the garden. VVS looked for the pulse and there was none. Form filling was going on. Gomathi and driver took Lalitha Mami to the Malar Hospital. Lakshmi Rangarajan's husband is a Medical Doctor. Nothing could be done. Gomathi arranged for her family to do the formalities,came back at 4:00 P.M., had her bath and then had her first meal of the day.

I remember that day vividly. Vellore Ramabhadran mAmA was in the living room. He had us all in splits for hours at a stretch, regaling us with anecdotes about great musicians of the past - Chembai, Madurai Somu and Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer. The whole morning and afternoon was spent filling out visa forms and listening to Ramabhadran mAmA. Then in the evening, after she came back home, Gomathi aunty informed some of us about what had happened during the day and we were all shocked. It was amazing how efficiently she had handled the situation, not wanting the gaiety in the house to be affected.

Every time I have been in their home, I have been awed by the enormity of the task being carried out every year and the amount of effort that goes into it. Kudos to Sundaram uncle, Gomathi aunty, VKV uncle and everybody else involved in organising the Cleveland Tyagaraja Aradhana!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 16 Mar 2008, 22:24

Thanks VKV
It is these kinds of snippets that brings reality to such events as well as show how CM is a bond that ties us all together. If it all sounds like a Festival, it is because it is indeed a Festival. Heartwarming to note the lengths to which VVS has to go through including handling domestic problems at the same time.

Thanks for giving us a peep behind the scenes. Now somebody should take over and provide us a 'human look' at what goes on at Cleveland besides the divine CM for the benefit of those Rasikas who are not so fortunate to attend!

mri_fan · Post by **mri_fan** » 16 Mar 2008, 23:11

VKV Sir,

Thank you very much for the time to share some experiences surrounding the Aradhana. You and the rest of the Aradhana committee have a lot to be proud of. Even the growth of music organization all across the US(San Diego, San Francisco, Phoenix, New Jersey, Washington, Atlanta, etc etc etc) have been able to grow because of your ability to attract top musicians to visit the United States.

I certainly won't be the last one to say, thank you very much for your efforts

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 17 Mar 2008, 05:17

Thank you, VKV.
Intead of just being a fly on the wall, like a honey bee, you bring us the atmosphere of the pre-ArAdhanA scene .

Nivedita,
You too!
We hope for more from Cleveland from the man with the flute and others...

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 17 Mar 2008, 11:45

DEAR LOVERS OF CARNATIC MUSIC,
We are overwhelmed by your kind & positive remarks. I am planning to arrange a special meeting next year in Chennai covering all the interesting & crucial aspects of the Cleveland Aradhana Festival in great detail starting from its initial beginnings, plus a brief account of the musical history history of carnatic music in North America starting in 1959 (when I started living in USA).....I have tentatively titled it as "Six blind men of Hindusthan look at the Cleveland Thyagaraja Festival" though a few U.S & OTHER NATIONALS may actually participate. I am looking for a poetic, catchy, title & request ideas & suggestions. As I am leaving or USA TOMORROW you can write me at:
vkv43034@yahoo.com or gmail.com in addition to this site if you prefer. Thanks again, VKV