Practicing Music

shishyapriya · Post by **shishyapriya** » 02 Mar 2007, 22:18

Friends,

I am a carnatic singer(though not that big). I sing because I like to. Can someone please tell me how a good carnatic singer should practice? Is it true that practing during Brahma Muhurtham is more effective than singing anytime during the day.

Also, There is a saying in tamil - Paada Paada Raagam Mooda Mooda Rogam. Which means pratice more.

Please comment.

rbharath · Post by **rbharath** » 03 Mar 2007, 00:20

yes of course. the more u do practice it is better. However practice the right stuff. If u practice the wrong stuff, then later to un-learn the wrong stuff and to re-learn the right stuff can be cumbersome...

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 03 Mar 2007, 01:23

rbharath wrote:yes of course. the more u do practice it is better. However practice the right stuff. If u practice the wrong stuff, then later to un-learn the wrong stuff and to re-learn the right stuff can be cumbersome...

The right stuff should also include practicing with the tampura or sruthi box. This may be an obvious point, but I remember reading that Tiger Varadachariyar scolding himself for not doing that in his earlier years. So, it implies keeping the practise session a bit formal, sit down with the drone and not just practise willy nilly.

sridevi · Post by **sridevi** » 03 Mar 2007, 02:23

Nowadays with shruthi cd, ipod - you could potentially practice wherever you can and want to. Also once in a while I think turning off the shruthi source - continuing to sing, and then recheck the shruthi is a goodway to check if you sing in the same shruthi with or without the drone.

Practicing the beginner lessons with akaram is also extremely helpful.

For me recording my practice session and listening lets me know exactly how way OFF I am compared to what was taught and how it needs to be sung. Also as Bharath said it is very heard to unlearn something - much much harder than to learn a new technique/method/krithi. I am saying this by experience. Listening and practicing are the two ways to get better. (hmmm I have always known this.. I WISH I would get off my seat and JUST DO IT!!! )

meena · Post by **meena** » 03 Mar 2007, 02:42

Also once in a while I think turning off the shruthi source - continuing to sing, and then recheck the shruthi is a goodway to check if you sing in the same shruthi with or without the drone.

sridevi
i have read that late smt. mss as she rendered, she too would stop playin' the drone at intervals and check if she maintained the pitch, with and without the sruthi.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 03 Mar 2007, 03:11

(hmmm I have always known this.. I WISH I would get off my seat and JUST DO IT!!! )

Me too.

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 03 Mar 2007, 03:15

For some reason found singing in the kitchen with the exhaust fan on is best for me !

I often tend to sing at 2.5 (the pitch tuned for violin) as I have the memory of the song in that pitch. I should stop before I damage my voice.

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 03 Mar 2007, 03:16

meena wrote:
Also once in a while I think turning off the shruthi source - continuing to sing, and then recheck the shruthi is a goodway to check if you sing in the same shruthi with or without the drone.
sridevi
i have read that late smt. mss as she rendered, she too would stop playin' the drone at intervals and check if she maintained the pitch, with and without the sruthi.

I have read this somewhere- can not claim it is authentic. Remember the record called Divine Unison - with SSI and MSS that was released sometime during the 90's ? It was an old recording on which a violin track of R K Sriramkumar was added. What I read was that even the tambUra track was added later on. I am not sure if there was no tambura when they sang or if it was too feeble, and not heard in the recording.

-Ramakriya

mridu · Post by **mridu** » 03 Mar 2007, 03:20

http://sun.science.wayne.edu/~vhari/ms/

The Thambura Affair
The M.S. hallmark of 'sruthi sudham' can be traced to a game she used to play in her childhood. As she sang, she would stop playing the drone at intervals and check if she continued to maintain the pitch with and without the 'sruthi'. Throughout the day she would sound the 'shadja panchama' notes and pluck strings to see if she was still aligned with them. This natural ability, consciously developed through a kind of yoga, is responsible for the electrifying effect her opening syllables have on the audience, whether she plumbs the depths (mandara sanchara) or scales the heights (thara sanchara) of a fantastic range.

meena · Post by **meena** » 03 Mar 2007, 05:24

ramakriya

if u come across the Divine Unison article pl. post

sridevi · Post by **sridevi** » 03 Mar 2007, 05:53

Meena and all

Yes.. I have read that Smt.MSS used to do it and read it George's book . And it indeed helps.
Also I read somewhere that if there is a performance or something then listening to the tamburi shruthi which you plan to sing also helps.

Suji, Actually if one has listened to music in one shruthi for an extended period of time then the brain is tuned to that. And if you start humming most likely you will hum in that shruthi. At least i Do. Meditating to the tamburi shruthi helps.

sridevi

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 03 Mar 2007, 06:09

shishyapriya asked:

Is it true that practing during Brahma Muhurtham is more effective than singing anytime during the day.

This is the accepted wisdom. See the article below where Bombay Jayashree mentions how she would get up at 4am and do sadhakam. So long as it doesn't disturb your neighbours...

http://padmini-natarajan.sulekha.com/bl ... eature.htm

Jayashri's phenomenal gift was trained, honed and polished by the ambitions of her mother who had seen the singular achievements of an MS or MLV. She was a tough disciplinarian and nothing other than music was allowed to enter Jayashri's life.
She was woken up at 4 am and the important Brahma muhurtham was utilised to imprint the rudiments and niceties of classical music. "That is the time when the voice is fresh after a good night's sleep, the mind is clear and what is learnt leaves an indelible imprint on your personality,â€

msakella · Post by **msakella** » 03 Mar 2007, 07:37

Dear members, Please refer the articles brought out under â€˜Reliable Shruthi Instrumentsâ€™ of General discussions in respect of having reliable Shruthi. msakella.

kaapi · Post by **kaapi** » 03 Mar 2007, 20:37

You may check the follow this link http://www.narada.org/kvn/intview2.html to get some idea about KVNâ€™s views about practicing in the early morning etc.

Regarding the Divine Unison concert I have heard this from an acquaintance of mine, a relative of K.R.Sundaram Iyer, who was present during this performance. He said that this was an impromptu performance during a family function when Shri Sundaram Iyer requested SSI to sing and MSS also pitched in. The violin and the mridangam were added for the cassette release,some 20 years after the actual performance took place, to give it a conventional colour. However he did not tell anything about the tambura.

sramaswamy · Post by **sramaswamy** » 07 Mar 2007, 01:50

What about the practice we hear about that in earlier days, the singer stands neck deep(?) in cold water and sing full throated to improve voice. I thought you need to be warm to be able to sing, otherwise aren't you are going to shiver:|

meena · Post by **meena** » 07 Mar 2007, 02:36

once u get into the cold H20- neck deep- u will not feel the cold/shiver....my experience in swimming.

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 07 Mar 2007, 04:26

ramakriya wrote:What I read was that even the tambUra track was added later on. I am not sure if there was no tambura when they sang or if it was too feeble, and not heard in the recording.

Yes - Shriramkumar told me that the tambura sruthi was also added later. The added accompanists are Shriramkumar (violin) and KV Prasad (mrudangam)! I think this was mentioned on the Sangeetham site as well.

srikrishna · Post by **srikrishna** » 08 Apr 2008, 22:52

How should one practice so that one may get to an open-throated singing down the line? My daughter does not open her throat fully while she sings and this has been the feedback I received from others. I want her to practice from a young age so that this deficiency can be corrected. I do not know music but would appreciate any suggestions you may have in this connection.

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 08 Apr 2008, 23:06

Your daughter should be left alone to develop her comfort level so she will open up. Until then let her learn and practice. This is not something unusual with your daughter alone; you can see that in several people who practice during shower.

sramaswamy · Post by **sramaswamy** » 09 Apr 2008, 00:02

srikrishna wrote:How should one practice so that one may get to an open-throated singing down the line? My daughter does not open her throat fully while she sings and this has been the feedback I received from others. I want her to practice from a young age so that this deficiency can be corrected. I do not know music but would appreciate any suggestions you may have in this connection.

What I have found in my practice is that your brain is trying to balance several dimension at once - sruthi, ragam, talam, song lyrics, volume etc. As you practice more and more, some of these dimension will start graduating towards a stage where your effort required for each of these dimension starts decreasing. But during this period when you are still in nascent stage, if you concentrate on one dimension the other dimension may suffer.

Bur after sufficient practice, you start to get the get the sruthi right. You start to sing correctly to talam. You have memorized the lyrics. You are at more ease and have more self-confidence overall. That is the point at which you can start tackling this aspect. Increase the sruthi box volume to higher levels progressively. And your daughter will try to out-sing the sruthi box. Try to bring the voice from nabhi.Compress your abdomen as if you are breathing out and produce the sound from way down below the throat. Over time, the volume will increase.

Another major help in open-throated singling is breath control. For this, pranayamam is very helpful. Take a deep breath with one side of the nose closed. Try pulling in air for as long as possible and then hold the breath again for as long as possible. Now alternate with the other nose

Thirdly, with the sruthi box try to align with SA and continue for as long as possible. Increase the duration over time. Repeat the same with other notes. This is a must everyday

srikrishna · Post by **srikrishna** » 09 Apr 2008, 06:32

VKRaman and sramaswamy: I appreciate your suggestions.

Thank you.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 09 Apr 2008, 08:43

sramaswamy,
Your observations obn open throated singing is ABSOLUTELY right on. I would like to add that the whole adherence to Sruti Suddham, Swara Sthanam etc is simply a question of the Servo control system working perfectly as it was in the case of MSS, MMI and still is in the case of BMK. In my observations, this is what distinguishes a "Super Star" from the "Great" one. vkv
Incidentally SAME thing applies to LAYA Suddham also like in the cases of MSS, MMI, LGJ ,PMI & THE ONE&ONLY Flute Mali.

thenpaanan · Post by **thenpaanan** » 09 Apr 2008, 20:10

srikrishna wrote:How should one practice so that one may get to an open-throated singing down the line? My daughter does not open her throat fully while she sings and this has been the feedback I received from others. I want her to practice from a young age so that this deficiency can be corrected. I do not know music but would appreciate any suggestions you may have in this connection.

One of the best teachers of voice quality in Carnatic Music is Ashok Immaneni of the Sadhana School of Arts located in Seattle (www. sadhanaschoolofarts.com). Look in there for a free online book authored by Mr. Immaneni called "Sonorous Music". In that book are listed a number of techniques for breathing, posture, positions of the lips, tongue and soft palate, the face mask, as well as some practice techniques to create new resonance possibilities in the head that I had not heard of earlier. What I especially like about the work is that there is no hype or exhortation or appeal to tradition -- just a simple laying down of basics in a very objective style.

I have never before seen such a systematic treatment of voice technique within the Carnatic or Hindustani systems. If there are other such examples of systematic treatment of voice in Indian classical music, I would be interested in learning about them so as to compare and contrast.

-Then Paanan

Ramnath Iyer · Post by **Ramnath Iyer** » 10 Apr 2008, 07:18

thenpaanan,
That document of Ashok Immaneni seems like a very interesting piece of work - I just had a quick glance; will be going thru in detail. Thanks for this reference.
Last December I picked up a book by Shri TVG on voice culture - he has treated the subject very methodically and scientifically as well. This book also suggests lots of exercises, dos and donts etc.
Ramnath

thenpaanan · Post by **thenpaanan** » 11 Apr 2008, 17:34

Ramnath Iyer wrote:thenpaanan,
That document of Ashok Immaneni seems like a very interesting piece of work - I just had a quick glance; will be going thru in detail. Thanks for this reference.
Last December I picked up a book by Shri TVG on voice culture - he has treated the subject very methodically and scientifically as well. This book also suggests lots of exercises, dos and donts etc.
Ramnath

Ramnath

Could you tell me the name of the book (even approximation) by TVG so I could try and get a copy myself?

Also on the Immaneni book, some of the exercises are quite hard to do. If you ever try those exercises yourself I would be very interested in exchanging notes. This is very much a experiential thing and hard to discuss in the abstract. In particular, I would be curious to know if I am the only person having the specific troubles I am having or they are generally difficult.

Thanks,
Then Paanan

sramaswamy · Post by **sramaswamy** » 11 Apr 2008, 22:36

Thenappan

Thank you very much for the link. A quick look at the book seems very interesting and academically done. I am for trying the exercises given. Hopefully I will have the will power to do it. If so I will try to post my experience. In the meantime, I would love to hear your comments.

This seems to be the book referred to by Ramnath Iyer

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2 ... 050500.htm