Playing Thrisra nadai using chathusra pattern

[vasanthakokilam]

Please refer to: http://www.palanisubramaniapillai.org/m ... spects.htm .

It says

"Palani was the first mridanga vidwan to play tisra nadai using chatusra patterns repeated three times, instead of the usual tisra pattern four times, thus masking the obviousness of tisra nadai. For example, in a half-avarta of four akshara-s of Adi tala, he would play the chatusra pattern ta dim dee na thrice (4*3), rather than the tisra pattern thaki ta four times(once for each akshara). While 4*3 equals 3*4, the first mode is elegant and conceals the obvious tisra nadai."

To understand this better, let me use this representation.

A b c A b c A b c A b c A ( thisra pattern four times)

A b c a B c a b C a b c A ( chathusra pattern three times )

The capital letter indicates the emphasis point ( or grouping point ) and all sollus are thisra duration.

Is there a practise that plays a combination of both?

A b c A B c A b C A b c A

The capital letters here represent only the emphasis point ( and probably not the grouping point )

[Nick H]

Unless I am misunderstanding, shouldn't your chatusra pattern have 4 letters, Abcd?

Using | to divide the beats, and bold to indicate the stressed begining of phrase, and covering just four aksheras:

|Abc|dAb|cdA|bcd

|ThaKaDhi|MiThaKa|DhiMiTha|KaDhiMi

Bear in mind that this will take the same amount of 'real time' as

|ThaKaDhiMi|ThaKaDhiMi|ThaKaDhiMi|ThaKaDhiMe|

in Chatusra, so the tisra stresses will not [all?] coincide with chatusra stresses.

A mridangist will be able to play chatusra with one hand and tisra with the other.

[cacm]

Dear VK & nick H,
The above points discussed in your posts are discussed by K.S.Kalidas in some detail with an example with Palani playing in my web site: www.vidvan.com click on Palani's picture & go the three segments which you can hear by downloading. The second segment discusses the 3 morphing into 4 etc. The 3rd segmant discusses a Palani Thani also downloadable. vkv

[Nick H]

It has been discussed here previously too, unless VK is getting at something I'm missing. Always a possibility!

[vasanthakokilam]

Nick: I think my representation and yours are equivalent. See if that is true. I used only a, b and c so that when 4*3 and 3*4 are combined, the representation still uses only three letters.

What I was curious about is, is there a practise to combine 4*3 and 3*4 together? I think your answer of 'play 4*3 with one hand and 3*4 with the other hand' gets at that. In such cases would the emphasis pattern be something like this ( on the capitalized letters ): A b c A B c A b C A b c A

[Nick H]

Ahh... the point I missed is that you are playing *both* in tisra --- not combining tisra and chatusra.

Sorry.

Must go to bed now as have an early start and cannot do my usual night-bird thing.

[semmu86]

i think this is one area where sankaran sir overshone even his guru... (guru vai minjina sishyar) .. the way he plays those chatusra gathi sollus in thisra nadai and that too with gumukki effects combined with the naadham which is produced,,, wow i just cant explain it in words... http://pazhani.sangeethapriya.org/thani ... anams.html

especially with semmangudi mama's 62 hyderabad concert and thhe one with ramnad krishnan at 65 academy.... fantastic