Carnatic Music Idols (2011)- JAYA TV Programme

[pvs]

the judges are not well prepared it seems. its a free for all between them - someone says something, their neighbour overrules it, the third person cuts it short. also, the questions are arbitrary and are not equally weighted. Vishnu's stumbling is a case in point...his Saraswati was excellent but the confusion between the judges and him was not too exciting.
why cant everyone be tested along the same questions, maybe in different ragams...?
also asking him to follow the mridangam was kinda silly...(my opinion)

also the 'concert list' is a funny prize! is the planning of a concert or the execution that pleases the audience?
I enjoy this show but too many guffaws...

(My thanks to vkailasam - I am up at 1230 or 100 am to watch the uploads before retiring...)

[cmlover]

You are quite right..
It is too many cooks who spoil the broth..
..and confusion worse confounded
No student can field too many judges simultaneously, especially when one judge asks a question and another starts explaining it...
Feel sorry for Nandini who bravely faced them...

[rahm221]

Thanks a lot, Sri Venkatakailasam. Your tireless effort is very well appreciated.

[squims]

I felt the questions to Vishnu were a bit confusing. He looked totally lost.

But very impressed with Nandini in this round. Very nicely sung.

[suma]

Nandini was good this round. questions for vishnu were complicated. i think luck is what matters as the contestants get different types of questions and vishnu had to face a difficult round. he was ok given the tough challenge

[suma]

the 6 finalists were selected very well and deserve to be in the finals. good job judges

[kartik]

TNS asking Nandini to try Abhogi in the Shanmukhapriya pallavi tested the manodharma aspect very well, but I think Nandini picked up well. Why was Anahita fourth in the last 6, she perhaps deserved to be higher?

[squims]

She was third, right after Raghavendra and Vishnudev. I think that is quite appropriate.

[Sam Swaminathan]

I have problems with the approach of the judges. It appears to me that they themselves are not sure of what they are asking or plan to ask the contestents. They should talk to themselves first, make up their mind as to their questions, have some consistency in proposing the questions to the contestents...well, may be next year...

What exactly is the culture of ( some of the judges ) addressing the contestents as "Va', "nee', "paddu", etc. Surely, the contestents are not judges' nephews or nieces! They are individuals with identity of their own and deserve some respect while being addressed or directed to do this or that. These people need to learn from Sri Lankan Tamils for giving respect even to their own children.

Do the judges know that Sri Vishnu is from Kerala and hence he is not proficient in Tamil? That was very evident from his replies to judges' questions. Even after seeing that he is struggling to respond properly in tamil, the judges just carried on, regardless. Extremely insensitive. On the top of it, our Valavala Valaji, sounded as if he is obliging Sri Vishnu because he is from Kerala and not for his performance in the contest!

[thanjavooran]

I expected Sowmya will come to his rescue by explaining in Malayalam. She too shattered our hopes. In fact Namboodhiri cut a sorrow figure.
....well, may be next year....
Thanjavooran 02 03 2011

[mohan]

The contestants really needed to have advanced knowledge of pallavi singing. Unfortunately there is a lot of terminology related to pallavi singing and the various terms (pratiloma, Anulomam, singing in the 'kizhai kAlam' and then finishing on the arudhi) are not clearly understood. Also, in practice the various techniques are not always dislplayed on the concert stage because of time constraints.

[smala]

Sam. I already pointed out the bias against non-Tamilians when Vishnu appeared in the prelims. The Valavala was high and mighty as he interviewed him with bare civility and respect. That idiot is not qualified to be called a MC or compere, much less a host with his inhospitable attitude, questions and statements. The judges - their insensitivity and attitude bordering on tamil chauvinism, is unacceptable. In Kerala programs, they are so courteous to all participants.

Mahavishnu on this forum has stated his rapport with Sri Sashikiran - perhaps he could convey this as a serious note? Without watching the finals, my gut feeling was they are geared to give Raghavendra the idol cap & gown. Sri Vishnu is given a token of a chance, his talent holding him, but the general manner of the judges seems to be to try dislodge him with a volley of Tamil intricacies which he obviously cannot answer with the language difficulty! A shame!

[VK RAMAN]

The prejudice against non-tamil is not new

[pvs]

couldn't agree more with Shyama-Priya and Sam. valavala's comment about Ganesh-Karthik's sherwani was downright cheap. Why should he care? does he even contemplate what goes into the performance and the years of training behind that? and here he is appearing on TV with nothing but a loudmouth and rags the poor guy!
I am not much for conspiracy theories (not always at least) but it appears a done deal that Raghavendra was the pick from day one...just the way they announced that he is leading by 20 points will demoralize the others - especially in a crowd that is shaking singing in front of this audience.

Couldn't the judges ask someone to relay the question in Malayalam to Vishnu? Trichur Ramachandran and so many others in the show are fluent in both the language and musical terminology...
Our berating aside, I think we expect too much from this crowd. This is just a reflection of the society at large and we know that the musicians are not all Saints like Thyagaraja or seeking elevation via music.

Imagine a non Madrasi winning the show! would have shown the mecca of Carnatic Music in different light...

[mahavishnu]

Like Sri Thanjavooran, I too was expecting Sowmya to bail out Vishnu in chaste malayalam. Pity it didn't happen. She would have had a good chance to show her prowess in Malayalam to the mylapore crowd. They could have switched to English at least!

A few caveats. I honestly don't think there are any conspiracies or prejudices, just possible insensitivity and oversight due to language issues.
The first question on singing the neraval in Dharini tripura sundari in a pattern of six fives or six sevens was a very legitimate question. Vishnu could have asked for clarification of what that meant; he thought that the kanakku expected of him was a sequence of 3 fives. While he was stumped, making puns on "Orange" and "Araainju" by NSG and his erstwhile guru did not help matters. I thought that joke was actually in poor taste.

Following this, he was asked to do a misra koraippu for swarams at Tripurasundari. This is also a very reasonable question. Before he got his rhythm going, Kumaresh asked him to repeat the mridangam's patterns which was quite bizarre and not standard at all. Following this NSG's question on the pallavi completely went over his head. The language-related confusion following this was unfortunate and could certainly have been avoided. The inherent unfairness in that is not acceptable.

Terminology such as arudhi, anulomam, pratilomam, trikalam are standard and all the contestants were trained by experts on these specifically before the finals, even on possible questions that might be asked. If you go to the pallavi competitions at the Music Academy or any other equivalent location in the carnatic music world, questions of this nature are extremely standard. One could say that they are part of the basic carnatic "syllabus". I would refer you to my earlier post where Sri Shashikiran mentioned pallavi contests with people like TRS, Chenglepet Ranganathan and TMT quizzzing the contestants. You can get an impresssion of how demanding some of these contests are from old posts on Sanjay Subhrahmanyan's blog as well. I just wish that the judges, for their own sake, would maintain uniformity in expecting the right level of rigour from each participant.

Sam makes another important point. Using "Maryidai panmai" is a basic civic exercise and the use of "neenga, padungo etc" should be used without discrimination, no matter what the age of the contestant. Sashikiran and GV are consistently polite. Sowmya and NSG go both ways. Ganesh-Kumaresh not so much.

[sureshvv]

Using "Maryidai panmai" is a basic civic exercise...

Not really around here. Even "da" is pretty much allowed... Am sure you would have that in those worn out tapes somewhere!

[venkatakailasam]

03-03-2011 episode is available in two parts.

Check with http://www.youtube.com/user/vkailasam

venkatakailasam

[cmlover]

I also do not subscribe to any theory of 'rigging' or partiality. But I cannot avoid feeling that the judges are somewhat more lenient with Raghavendra. Of course he is very talented; and hence he should have been grilled harder. Even Kumaresh who is usually aggressive appears to have quietened down. For example Raghavendra starts pallavi in Sankarabharanam even without being asked and Kumaresh simply agrees with him. Even TNS is remarkably quiet with no quips. The anandabhairavi was just mediocre but was appreciated. Comparing this to the grilling of the other candidates like Vishnu or Aishvarya it appears that there is a premeditated agreement as to who should be the winner especially due to the fawning shown by the vaLa vaLa ...

Perhaps we are not seeing everything or perhaps there were deliberations behind the scenes before the winner is crowned...

[shankarabharanam]

Just to add if you see last years finals Bharat Sundar too wasn't grilled. So this does send wrong signals to viewers. Personally I think they judges had already decided that Raghavendra is the one who should get it. When Ganesh Karthik started singing there was no need for Kumaresh to interrupt. At least wait for the participant to settle down. Of all the judges, he seems to to be the most irritating.

[venkatakailasam]

Exhibitionism!!

venkatakailasam

[Rasika911]

Conspiracy theories? Surely the Rasikas.org community is better than this.

Last year Bharat Sundar was asked to sing the chittaiswaram of an ata tala varnam in mishram, a concept many on the forum were unable to comprehend at that time if i remember correctly. He was also asked to sing tanam with a khandam base in thodi. I feel that some assessments of the difficulty level of the questions is influenced by the manner in which the participants respond to it.

I too have noticed an inconsistency in difficulty level of th questions being asked and most of it has come from neyveli santhanagopalan. Some of his questions have just been bizzare: - Telling some girl to sing a-grade, b grade, c grade panthuvarali. - telling one girl to sing whie shaking her both her hands - sing a few pharses of rakthi ragams. If I was the Sydney Krishna I would feel dissapointed to not get a question like those mentioned rather than the question on korraipu he got.

From what I have noticed all of the contestants seem to be weak in kannaku. Finishing with 3*7 or 3*5 is not too difficult and for contestants expecting a career head-start in CM this should be bread and butter. Regarding Vishnu, he is a wonderful singer with great potential but he is competing for a career in music. This involves general communication skills too. At some point he will have to communicate with a sabha secretary or somebody in the US in a language other than his mother toungue. If he didn't understand the question all he had to do was say so. Most of the popular carnatic musicians today like sanjay subrahmanyan, sudha raghunathan, tmk ect. all have very competent communication skills.

When watching these jaya tv episodes keep in mind that they are edited and that we don't see all of what happens.

[smala]

....I also do not subscribe to any theory of 'rigging' or partiality. But I cannot avoid feeling that the judges are somewhat more lenient with Raghavendra.....

Two contradictory statements. The reasons why a viewer like me feels Raghavendra was pre-determined to win the idol cap is precisely because of your second statement! He - alone - is let off lightly and allowed to sing without too many interruptions. Barring a couple or so people here who seem to be in denial, the kid glove treatment for one is a tell-all. There lies the "partiality"! Don't hold your breath to be "surprised" as you watch the episodes "waiting" till the final.

If this gig is all about an "idol" the judges know who the contestants are, probably prior to the show. Once the prelims are done, their leanings towards the "one" is felt and probably discussed already at that stage. Even when a larger group of judges come in at the end - they are not like a "jury" sequestered over the course of the event with a gag order against discussion or seeing the print media etc. In this sense, the show seems to be sham. I, for one, feel quite let down.

Edited or not, the aired segments don't matter.

[Rasika911]

That is why I said NSG is the main offender. Although many feel he is charming I'm once again not too happy with his consistency as a judge BUT i'm not accusing him of cheating. I think he is above that sort of stuff as a person as are the other judges. I think all of them have too much integrity to even pass a second thought for that sort of conduct.

Given that the paricipants had sessions with the suguna mamis and mannargudi eswaran, i feel the participants should at least know the terminology used for pallavi like purvangam, uttarangam, arudi, arudi karvai, trikalam, anulomam, partilomam ect. If these participants had listened to a sanjay subrahmanyan or a tns pallavi they would know exactly what it means to sing tisram and finishing the arudi on the dhuritam.

Watching the finals it's a little disappointing that the participants are sometimes not understanding simple things, then again it could be the pressure of the situation. For all the media hype and the prizes at stake i feel the level of the participants could somehow be a little higher. I feel that there are competitions being held elsewhere maybe AIR/academy where the standard is higher than what we are seeing. Reading Sanjay's blog, i would have loved to see the competitions where the participants were sowmya, shashikiran, unnikrishnan, anuradha sriram, ect.

Personally I would only pay to watch Raghavendra and Anahitha from what I have seen so far. Stand out performances being their harikamboji and thodi respectively. If either of these two end up winning I think they'd be worthy given the sort of guidance they have avalible to them. I fear the others might not make such an impact after jaya tv's contracts are over and will fade away.

[arunsri]

In today's episode, Raghavendra was tested very very lightly.

tishram in natakuranji varnam chitta swara
anandahairavi raga alapana

These two questions are of the level of elimination round... others got far difficult questions! Honestly, these were questions that one would pose to a student of music who has learnt for 4-5 years. I felt TNS should have spoken at thsi point and made the playing field even.

Third was a shocker - Neraval in mAvara suguNalaya of O rAjivAksha (Arabhi)

When the focus is on neraval, the words should be correct!! Raghavendra repeatedly sang

mA vara suguNau
mA vara sannuta

where as the correct split is

mA vara suguNa umA vara sannuta.

The meaning is [from http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... -raga.html]
O Consort (vara) of lakshmI (mA)! O Virtuous One (suguNa)! O Lord well-praised (sannuta) by Lord Siva – the Consort (vara) of pArvatI (umA)! O My Lord (dEvara)! Won’t (rAdA) You kindly (daya cEsi) protect (brOvaga) me?

Raghavendra 's singing totally changed the meaning! Probably he does not care, but the judges SHOULD HAVE pointed this out. I do not think anyone noticed. It was quite shocking.

Lastly the pallavi was without any "pallu" (teeth), It was a khaNDa tripuTa tALa pallavi, which is the basic tALam taken by anyone attempting to sing a RTP first time. The only beautiful thing about it was the swarAskhara which was pointed out by TNS. Raghavendra's original setting did not have that swaraksharam too. Not to brag, I am not a trained vocalist. But I have sung the same pallavi in shankarabharanam at a house program on shivaratri day a few years ago in tishra tripuTa (khanDa naDai), I too did trikAlam and swara prasthara, which was far more challenging than what raghavendra did.

Overall, Ragahvendra's presentation and questions did not elicit the WOW that one would expect from a topper. It was plain mediocre and substandard.

I am not sure what is shown is what was tested? If more was tested, then the difficult things (for Raghavendra) should have been telecast, not the trivial part. Also, for others, where the difficult part was showcased, the easy part should be shown to the viewers. Else, It can send out wrong signals about the fairness of the programme and the judging.]

If crap programmes like AIRTEL SUPER SINGER can go on for months together, with all stages being shown in detail, why should this programme get only such a limited air time?

[mohan]

I agree with the previous posts and thought the level of questions that Raghavendra was asked (or at least that were televised) were not of the same level of difficulty as what others got. He was also asked by NS to sing neraval in the Arabhi piece in the place where he is familiar instead of something new.

Unfortunately, such competitions are inherently subjective and not everyone is running on the same playing field.

[venkat1926]

Shri Ponbhairavi avl,
I totally agree with your observation and suggestion. IMHO when judges offer their comments in English [of course it is quite comfortable for expression from their point of view ] no harm in a contestant coming in a non traditional dress [ comfortable to him ]
Thanjavooran 4 02 2011

The views of the judges are fundamentalist views. I agree that the participants should be decently attired. I mean I do not want the participant girl to come in two piece swimming dress. But any other decent dress must be OK. We have changed so much what is wrong in pant and shirt or even pyjama and kurti for girls

[nadhasudha]

These judges should watch how Singer Hariharan conducts himself on the Hari Udan Naan show and learn from him. My respect for Shri Hariharan's music was always there, but the way he handles the participants and encourages them shows what a great human being he is as well. Faults are pointed out gently - even when participants are rejected from the show he gives them guidance on what they need to do to progress in their musical journey. He has taken the singers literally under his wings and has brought them along so well.Vijay Adhiraj is a much better MC/compere than vala vala Valaji.

In terms of Carnatic Music Idol it appears to me the judges are competing amongst themselves to see who can ask the tougher question or how inconsiderate one can be. The legend Dr Balamuralikrishna alluded to this in his speech after the finals last year saying that he was happy that he was not a contestant on this show.

[smala]

..."I too was expecting Sowmya to bail out Vishnu in chaste malayalam. Pity it didn't happen. She would have had a good chance to show her prowess in Malayalam to the mylapore crowd. They could have switched to English at least!...

"It didn't happen"...precisely because the no.1 slot is a foregone conclusion. Getting the best out of Vishnu or any of the others is not Sowmya's or any judges concern, it seems clear!

As a respectful judge she should have translated in Malayalam to make the contestant feel comfortable and to be helpful in furthering their aspirations.

NOT because "..She would have had a good chance to show her prowess in Malayalam to the mylapore crowd".... That would have been trite - and even more of a show-off as judge -- the "prowess" is already seen with the over-the-top questions directed to select contestants, barring THE one !

The purpose of a competitive program in something as serious as CM would be to gently guide the contestants, accentuating their strengths while suggesting improvements in weak areas. Chennai/Pettai/Patnam/Tamil is notorious for its upstart culture. Not surprising to see the pseudo-nouveau-acquired arrogance has penetrated into this show as well.

[thanjavooran]

I have a desire that may sound little strange. Why not for a change the present judges be quizzed by a panel comprising of Prof SRJ, TRS, Chengleput Renganathan and SK Vedavalli with decent approach without usual funs and puns and aired as an annexure to the present episode? The individual score I leave it to the viewers. As per the present standard min of 35% is required for a pass.

Thanjavooran 03 03 2011

[mahavishnu]

S-P: easy. I was being sarcastic!

[kartik]

How come people feel that Sowmya must have spoken in Malayalam, does she speak that language fluently?

[lifeisasong2]

I confess to feeling very sorry for Vishnu. I am a non South Indian, non Tamilian living in London who learns and loves Carnatic music.I love the sound of Tamil and have nothing but respect and admiration for the language, but there are times one tends to feel very excluded in situations when all proceedings are carried out in Tamil and rasikas from other parts of India and the world understand nothing. I too was hoping Sowmya would use Malayalam to communicate with Vishnu. So far I have been watching the uploads on youtube with a great deal of interest trying to guess what is going on -hope one day they can think of English subtitles.

[mahavishnu]

Yes, Kartik. Sowmya is fluent in Malayalam. I think she grew up in Thiruvananthapuram.
She is quite often a judge on carnatic talent shows in malayalam. There are tons of videos of "Ragaratnam yuva" on youtube.

[cmlover]

Keep in mind this is a 'Tamil' TV station with all Tamil audience. Which means they speak mostly in English except to show off their Tamil occsionally. This is not a universal CM contest. Accomplished CM youths from karnataka or Telengana will not even enroll in this contest. In particular this is a chennai subculture based contest. Even bright CM youth from rest of TN won't partcipate. All the assembled crowd are from Chennai (Mylaporean )as are all the judges. This show is sponsored by Pothys just for advertisement. It does not mean that the winner is the 'best' young performer of CM. Of course there is entertainment value; and that is all..

[mahesu]

Just out of curiosity - Does the malayalam / kannada channel judges talk in respective language or in Tamil / Telugu? Is there any instance of the judges translating when the participant is of different language? Come on guys, this is a Tamil TV Channel and one would expect everyone to talk in this language only, Why such a hue and cry?

[venkatakailasam]

04-03-2011 episode is available in two parts. This gets you the final results.

Check with http://www.youtube.com/user/vkailasam

Non Tamils nor non south Indians makes no difference so far as likes and dislikes, prejudices are concerned in our part of the country .
It is prevalent in every sphere . You will come across every where including our forum.
So kindly do not single out the judges as though we are above such things. A duty has been assigned and they carried out to their best.
Let us leave it at that .It is easier to criticizes than to applaud.

venkatakailasam

[mahavishnu]

Thank you Sri Kailasam.
On that positive note, Congratulations to all the winners! I'm actually sad that the show is over. Back to work!

[cmlover]

Congratulations to one and all and especially to our Forumites who patiently waited and contributed to the discussions.
Many thanks to vkailasam for enabling everyone to view the telecast promptly...

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