Atlanta - Bringing Carnatic Music back into life ...

[reethigowla48]

uday_shankar,
Your rants and raves force me to make things explicitly transparent here. Before you run away from the battle which you have lost, let me fulfill that task (this is probably the nth time I am reiterating the same thing; So bored am I).
Taking refuge at the quite inconsequential and irrelevant Godwin's law if of no use. You cannot pretend that you did not understand the pun of what I wrote about Hitler and run away from the scene, citing a jargon. So you force me to make explicit, the figurative pun (and thus spoil the fun of it) :

Hitler was a good guy in his personal life, which doesn't mean that he deserves a nobel peace prize--That was my simple point.

Quite similarly, your idol, Dr Ram Sriram, is a great concert bringer and an organizer (which I too don't have problem in acknowledging; which is where I differ from you)--but never a proper mridangist capable of accompanying starlwarts of the stature of TN Seshagopal etal and hence doesn't deserve to be "self-nominated" as the mridangist for the concerts he brings in Atlanta, with the public money (1.when other good mridangists are available in the city, 2. when there are very much feasible options to invite very good mridangists from other cities in NA). These have been extensively discussed in the "Perspective" thread (as you already know, but conveniently pretend not to know). And this is, unfortunately, a sad truth which (leave alone the grown up rasikas) even the kids of Atlanta are well aware of. Your fetishist idolatry for him alone doesn't help twist the truth in his or your favor. So please come out of the self-denial you are in. Even if you try not to, the truth (as contained in this link, http://www.ipnatlanta.net/camaga/ ) will ever hang over your head like Democles's sword (until it is removed from the website!).

Also see post #1 for other serious problems with CAMAGA, which were all cited in the right sportsmanspirit, of making things better and not at all to disparage someone in particular, as you have been trying to 'controversialize' it. If calling a spade a "spade" or calling an injustice an "injustice" are all merely "relentless character assassinations" for you; sorry, you may need to do your home works better.

And in all your posts you conveniently avoid recalling the fact that every rasika of Atlanta (including myself, I repeat) is thankful for Ram Sriram and other people in the organization for their thankless services in bringing in concerts and hosting the artists. This has been made very clear and acknowledged appropriately in several of the previous posts (since you have innate problem believing my words, see the posts #25, #29, #30; and there are several others in the perspective thread; I can look them up for you if you are not satisfied with these)

[Ram Sriram]

First, I want to state that the ID name I have used is my real name and I am the founder and the current President of the Atlanta music organization. I am not interested in hiding behind an anonymous name. While I did not want to waste the time of this forum’s members by responding to the criticisms posted about a specific organization, because there were unwarranted references to “dictatorship and Mubarak, etc.’ I decided to tell the story from the organization’s end. Also, some of the processes followed and decisions made by this organization would be helpful to other community organizations such as this.

I must assume that the anonymous Muthu Kumaran may not even be a member of this organization; if he is not a member, he obviously would not be entitled to receive messages relating to annual elections or copies of the minutes of meetings and resolutions. Only members are eligible to vote on elections and receive such documents. If, on the contrary, he is a member, he obviously does not read the numerous emails sent periodically regarding annual elections and so on.

The election processes: Before holding elections, an independent individual is chosen to conduct the election (for several years, to ensure independence, we even chose this individual from outside of Atlanta). The election officer is the only one who can send out the election notice, seek nominations, conduct the voting, and announce the names of the office-bearers. Contrary to what Muthu Kumaran had stated, three of the four advisory board members elected this year are serving for the first time.

Yes, Muthu Kumaran is correct that the office-bearers have remained the same for the last several years. Why is this so? Every time we conduct elections, there is no nomination for the positions of President, Secretary, and Treasurer. Two days before nomination closes, the election officer would urgently call me and inform me that there are no nominations for any of the office-bearer positions (I must point out that the election process allows for self-nominations; if Muthu Kumaran had wanted one of these jobs, he would have gotten it for the asking). After the election officer calls me, I would frantically draft (yes; that is the right word) the outgoing office bearers and beg them to continue because we have to run the organization and we cannot give up out of frustration. The outgoing office-bearers were not exactly eager to continue for one more term; they were quite unhappy with the work load and the pressures. Each of them spends not only significant amount of personal and family time but also significant amount of money each year from their pockets to meet organizational expenses.

The election processes and management rules I have written are available in the bylaws of the organization and are posted on the website. Anyone can read them. We hold annual general body meetings and, mostly, the same ten individuals show up to these meetings; others do not even bother to attend. In the meeting announcements, we repeatedly request members to attend these meetings, share their thoughts, and make suggestions for improving the organization. Either the members are content with the activities or are apathetic. During the meetings, financial statement copies are handed over to the attendees; we share with members, information on why we chose to invite certain artists and why we could not invite others. Every decision is made transparent. A couple of weeks after the meeting had ended, we make available copies of the resolutions and minutes to any member who seeks it.

Now to the annual Aradhana celebrations: Thirteen years ago, when I started this organization, we had a few individuals participating in the celebrations and the whole function ended in four hours. Today, there are 275 individuals participating over a two-day period and most of the participants are young children from the Atlanta area. The parents of majority of the Aradhana participants are not even members of the organization. Yet we celebrate the Aradhana day, only because it is our community and we wanted to showcase our local youngsters’ talents. This year, the artist who gave a special concert was a fourteen-year-old young kid from our community and I am proud of such accomplished children (she was accompanied on the violin and Mridangam by local youngsters as well).

Same individual leads the Pancharathna: Yes, Muthu Kumaran is correct. Before the actual day of the Aradhana, for six weeks prior to that day, we hold practice sessions to train the individuals who wish to participate in the group singing of Pancharathna. Although we have numerous qualified teachers in the community, none of them is willing to contribute two hours of each week to train 20 individuals. Only one dedicated teacher is willing to do so. Should I reject her because she is the same one doing it year after year or should I be thankful to her for her dedication?

I do not want to take up any more time from this group. Throwing peanuts from the gallery is easy to do (as Muthu Kumaran had aptly demonstrated); but, contributing positively takes efforts and dedication. If Muthu Kumaran wants to contribute positively to the running of this organization, I humbly welcome him to do so. This is our community.

[reethigowla48]

Ram Sriram,
Now that we know that you have been reading this thread, could we please know your reason for your self-nomination as the accompanying mridangist for (invariably) all the concerts by professional artists from India, who have come to NA without a mridangist?
For details, please refer to the previous posts in this thread; #30, #31, #32, #33, #51.

Thank you,
Reethigowla48

[Always_Evolving]

Now that we know that you have been reading this thread, could we please know your reason for your self-nomination as the accompanying mridangist for (invariably) all the concerts by professional artists from India, who have come to NA without a mridangist?
For details, please refer to the previous posts in this thread; #30, #31, #32, #33, #51.

If you are a person who bought a ticket and went to a concert, you know what.... you don't get to question the choice of actors on stage. If you are a dues-paying member of CAMAGA you do get to give inputs and ask questions in appropriate foras established by the by-laws of CAMAGA. If you are not satisfied and are accusing the organization of improprieties, I am sure the Dekalb County Court will be all too happy to hear the case of "CAMAGA Vs. Reethigowla48" with all the nuances of mukthayis,theermanams, Hitler, "artistic" versus other kinds of integrity, "perspectives" etc. etc. thrown in.

Since all you are doing is throwing accusations hiding behind an anonymous handle (unnecessarily dragging in the name of a beautiful raga ), I believe CAMAGA and Dr. Sriram are under NO obligation to answer you.

[sureshvv]

Ram Sriram,
Now that we know that you have been reading this thread, could we please know your reason...

Please do not waste our time and your energy as it appears that Dr. Sriram will not dignify your "anonymous handle" with an answer. Most of his response was to Muthukumaran, who at least sounds like a real person.

[uday_shankar]

Your rants and raves

Sir, I resent this accusation. I merely challenged you to a duel, in a most gentlemanly manner, after the rich southern tradition. On the other hand, may I suggest, with all due respect and great diffidence, that you may well be the one "ranting and raving" ?

[uday_shankar]

"CAMAGA Vs. Reethigowla48"

No, the defendant's name comes second. So it should be "Reethgowla48 vs CAMAGA". The honorable justice Thakadhimi Thakajuno, of Japanese American heritage, presiding.

[Nick H]

It might even reach the court of the famous American judge Thad E. Ginathom!

[reethigowla48]

No, the defendant's name comes second. So it should be "Reethgowla48 vs CAMAGA". The honorable justice Thakadhimi Thakajuno, of Japanese American heritage, presiding.

uday_shankar,
Strike back, if you can, for my post#51 instead of hiding yourselves from it and escaping with off-stream ambiguities

[reethigowla48]

If you are a person who bought a ticket and went to a concert, you know what.... you don't get to question the choice of actors on stage. If you are a dues-paying member of CAMAGA you do get to give inputs and ask questions in appropriate foras established by the by-laws of CAMAGA.

. Your usual last attempts of logic? If you should be right here, the whole rasikas.org should be shut down and banned and all rasikas's mouths forever be plastered with fevicol--This sort of dictatorship might work, at the most, in your home; but not in the free world outside (sorry; but that is my style). You are very welcome not to read this forum and my posts, if that will help you not lose your sense and formulate this stupid mode of reasoning, to support some person you vehemently favor.

Since all you are doing is throwing accusations hiding behind an anonymous handle (unnecessarily dragging in the name of a beautiful raga ), I believe CAMAGA and Dr. Sriram are under NO obligation to answer you.

Come on...More stupid logic from you!!
First of all, they(nor you) don't have ANY answer to the very simple question I posed; regardless of who I am ! So if Ram Sriram or CAMAGA won't answer me, it is not because they "are under NO obligation to answer" me (as you try to euphorisize it), but simply because they don't have any answer for it. So your hypocrisy of "tell me first who you are, then I will see if your question makes any sense or not" is of no use here !!

[reethigowla48]

Please do not waste our time and your energy as it appears that Dr. Sriram will not dignify your "anonymous handle" with an answer. Most of his response was to Muthukumaran, who at least sounds like a real person.

I am sorry sureshvv. Unfortunately I have looooots of time and energy for doing these.
First of all I don't think I had to waste much of my time for this venture. It was so easy, since the case was already made; I just did the part of typing it down here. And my frustrations for having sat through those concerts catalyzed my tasks here.
Ram Sriram chose to answer Muthukumaran, not because his name sounds more "real" or "human". (Hahaha; can't believe how you made up this interesting logic). But obviously because he doesn't have any "sensible" answer to the very simple question I posed (of course he can always come up with a nonsensical one). Everyone in Atlanta knows of this bare truth; sorry if you are not living here and missed knowing about it.

[reethigowla48]

I am slightly familiar with some of the musicians in Atlanta (my first mridangam guru, Sri Suresh Kothandaraman, being one of them...does anyone know him?). I am surprised because I thought Atlanta was a relatively active hotspot for CM.

gee,
Good point. I know the mridangist named Suresh Kothandaraman. He also teaches several students. But unfortunately we seldom got to see him on the stage for concerts here (for all the obvious reasons discussed in this forum!!)

[Ram Sriram]

One of the accusations made is, as President, I decide who the accompanying artists are for a concert. As an organizer, I have no influence whatsoever in recommending myself or someone else from the local area as an accompaniment for a professional musician. I wish it were that simple and easy. As we are aware, most professional musicians visiting from India tour with professional accompaniments. However, of late, because of visa issues, suddenly decided tours, short tours where it is not economically feasible to bring a full set of accompanists, or one of the accompaniments leaving to India in the midst of a tour because of prior commitments, visiting musicians are required to use local accompaniments. In such cases, the principal artist usually chooses a violinist or Mridangist out of a couple of choices for violin and Mridangam from the geographical area in which the concert is to be held. Artists such as Sri Seshagopalan or Neyveli Santhana Gopalan are very reputed artists and they do not compromise for the sake of money by nodding their head to the local organizer to use any accompaniment. It is their reputation at stake. Nevertheless, I was amused by the exaggeration of my influence over such eminent artists.

I do agree that use of local artists saves money (in airfares, compensation and related items) and a local artist does not have the same professional stature. It is indeed true that, in the last few years, artists’ compensation, airfares and auditorium rents have more than doubled, while, membership and ticket sales have stagnated. However, cost is not the only reason behind using local artists. As pointed out earlier, also other factors influence such a decision. The use of local artists is now becoming the norm across U.S.; I expect this phenomenon to become even more common because the constraints are increasing.

On a personal note, I read the comments about my Mridangam accompaniment during one or two concerts. Perhaps the rasika who made that comment was justifiably unhappy with my accompaniment on that day (we all have our good and bad days) or the rasika’s opinion is influenced by his personal dislike of me. I am not intending to dissect the reasons. If it is my accompaniment, I will definitely strive to improve (learning never stops). If it is personal dislike, I could care less. I must also point out that each year, as a Mridangist, I accompany professional musicians in numerous concerts - of these, only two or three are held in Atlanta. I can assure you that I hold no position in any of these other organizations to influence the organizers or the visiting artists. It is the visiting artist, who makes that choice. The local organizer then invites me. The fact that the reputed artist s repeatedly invite me to accompany them in other concerts is enough testimony for me.

Back to organizational issues: There were suggestions to organize a youth forum, half hour concerts to showcase young artists from Atlanta, a second function each year, in addition to the Aradhana, to celebrate other composers, lecture demonstrations, etc. I appreciate these valuable suggestions. However, as a committee, we had already considered all of these activities and, about a year ago, passed a resolution that we should hold such events. Why did we not hold these events then? Lack of volunteers and resources; everyone has a wish list but they are unwilling to come forward and say, “I will take the lead role in putting this specific event together and help the organization.”

In addition to the activities mentioned, I am also aware of other wish lists. There are demands that we invite only reputed artists such as Nithya Sri and Ranjani and Gayathri every year. As one of the messages highlights, we have less than 150 members and limited resources; yet we manage to organize eight to ten concerts a year and at least more than half of them are reputed professional artists visiting from India. We are able to host so many concerts only because the office bearers, using their personal contacts and influence, bring in donations from their friends; yes, we also conserve resources by using local accompaniments for some of the concerts (every penny counts). As mature individuals, we must recognize that while we want the best every time, there are constraints and, consequently, compromises.

None of the above is a defense of the organization or its policies and I am not obligated to offer such a defense to a forum anyway. I am aware that other organizers confront similar situations and similar criticisms. Many of the Carnatic music organizations in the U.S. are managed by the same few individuals from within the organization year after year because there are not many volunteers willing to take up the mantle; it is indeed a sad situation; denigrating that as dictatorship or comparing it to Egypt or Hitler is immature.

I wrote this message only to impress on each one of us that if we are truly interested in improving a community organization, criticizing and nitpicking are not adequate. We should come forward and take active interest by attending general body meetings, volunteer our time, and contribute in numerous other ways (including leadership positions). At the least, we should refrain from hiding inside an online forum. The online forum cannot settle those issues, only the local organization’s members can. On behalf of the organization, I welcome the Atlanta rasika forum members to come forward and contribute in a positive way.

I would not be offering any more explanations on this forum. If Reeti Gowla or Mukhari has questions, they can come to the annual meetings or send me an email or contact one of our other office bearers.

[cienu]

Hitler was a good guy in his personal life .........

That you choose to refer to Hitler in a positive sense amazes me & reveals a huge chink in your mental armor.

In day to day life, ones personal and public personas intersect each other with amazing frequency & mirror each other’s attributes more often than not.

One cannot be “Good” in personal life and also be responsible for the death of approximately 11 million people (out which 6 million were Jews)

Anyone with even an iota of common sense and a basic knowledge of history will know that Hitler was not just bad but one of the most evil people ever to live & if you don't know that then you know very little indeed.

[Nick H]

Upsizing, dowsizing... now euphorisizing! Sounds to me like the best out of the three

I have spoken out, in other threads, because I know people personally. In this one, I know nobody, so I should keep quite. I know one thing, though: if I was Ram Sriram, I would not have been able to answer in such a cool, reasoned and polite way. As someone who shrieks when pinched, I humbly take off my hat and salute him.

[VK RAMAN]

Ram Sriram hats off to you for being so cool and nice with nitpickers and trouble mongers living in denial as to their role that you rose above

[uday_shankar]

In this one, I know nobody

Nick, I thought I knew you mate!

answer in such a cool, reasoned and polite way. As someone who shrieks when pinched, I humbly take off my hat and salute him.

Indeed, me too! Go, Dr. Sriram go! If I had any compositional talents, I would compose a kriti right now in his praise, in the raga - what else - reethigowla, set to Adi tAla 2 kali thisra gati (i.e., 48 aksharams).

[fun_on_the_move]

reetigowla48,

It looks like , if these people get you in real life, they are going to pelt stones at you and kill you ...such hatred they show in their words for a person who has been reiterating simple points again and again for the cause of music and not for any personal benefit.

Welcome to the real world!

I'm really inquistive at this point to read your reply.

[VK RAMAN]

fun_on_the_move: wrong, wrong, wrong. Free world and free speech so long it is expressed in good languange and no profanity

[Nick H]

Nick, I thought I knew you mate!

:$ :$ :$

Woa... well caught out there!

As you probably guessed, I meant the organiser guys that get so much flac, rather than the rest of us!

Indeed, I'm happy to "confess" to knowing uday... and happy to know him, online and off

[reethigowla48]

That you choose to refer to Hitler in a positive sense amazes me & reveals a huge chink in your mental armor.

Anyone with even an iota of common sense and a basic knowledge of history will know that Hitler was not just bad but one of the most evil people ever to live & if you don't know that then you know very little indeed.

@cienu-- you may want to read my post #51, to understand the pun I intended while writing so about Hitler ! Let me know if you still have any doubts.
Thanks !

[reethigowla48]

fun_on_the_move: wrong, wrong, wrong. Free world and free speech so long it is expressed in good languange and no profanity

VK RAMAN,
Hello again for your usual short-sighted comments. I should have learnt to neglect you. But before that, please explain what your definitions are for "good language" and "profanity". You mean to say that no one can write any truth in rasikas.org? Any truth which is against and unfavorable for people in the establishments is bad language and profane?

Also tell me if you prefer good language full of lies or explicit, vigorous language solely of truth?

[vasanthakokilam]

If Reeti Gowla or Mukhari has questions, they can come to the annual meetings or send me an email or contact one of our other office bearers.

ReetiGowla48, hopefully the two posts of Sri. Ram Sriram provides the info you were looking for and as per the above quoted line, you will take up the matter for any follow up using those methods. This sounds like a good way to bring this issue to a conclusion in this thread.

[gee]

ReetiGowla48, hopefully the two posts of Sri. Ram Sriram provides the info you were looking for and as per the above quoted line, you will take up the matter for any follow up using those methods. This sounds like a good way to bring this issue to a conclusion in this thread.

yeah, it seems that everything that was needed to be said has already been said. there doesnt seem to be any point in discussing this further.

[doyoucare]

reetigowla48,

I'm really inquistive at this point to read your reply.

Hilarious!! Buying yourself some time, huh?

[doyoucare]

So what do you think is the over-under on 'Muthugowlaonthemove' contacting Dr.Ram with ideas on "fixing" the Atlanta scene?

[Ramasubramanian M.K]

Forumites; Some touch of levity(true story) might help "cool" the vitriolic exchange here!!

In 1972 The Late Emani Sankara Sastri visited the US---a concert had been arranged by the Philadelphia org--I think Sruthi--Ramnad Raghavan was to accompany him--he was in Wesleyan in Connecticut at that time---something happened and he told the organisers late on Friday night(the concert was on the next day -Saturday afternoon) that he would not be able to play for the concert The organisers were frantic--mind you this was in 1972--when the fledgeling orgs were not surfeit with "local" talent. Somehow my name(I was in NY at that time as I am still!!)was suggested by somebody--I think Raghavan himself because he knew me and my family and one of the organisers called me late Friday night whether I would agree to accompany Emani Sastry!!! Apparently they had heard of my younger brother who is an accomplished mridangist--subsequently turned out as a Corporate Executive--and thought the genetic quality may not be lost in me!! Preferring honesty to modesty,I told the organiser that Sastry Garu deserved INFINITELY BETTER-- Emani Garu was apparently standing close to the organiser when he made the call(he was also at that time a little hard of hearing) and he thought I was declining because I thought accompanying Emani Garu was beneath me and grabbed the phone and outlines his credentials--A Grade Artiste,composer,tunesmith etc etc thinking that I have never 'heard" him or of him and ends up pleading with me(before I could even explain) in "Teluguised" Tamil ,"Sir Palghat Mani Iyer kooda enakku vachirukkar" (even Palghat Mani Iyer has accompanied me!) thinking that I may not have known about his prowess and stature. I calmly explained to him that my hesitation had nothing to do with his stature and that I had never learnt Mridangam formally (but being associated with my brother I had some knowledge but not enough to go on stage)--still I reluctantly I agreed--not to disappoint a great artiste making it very clear that I can play sarvalaghu without mistake and I would refrain(cease and desist) from playing Thani Avarthanam . I trekked my way to Philly the next day --I did not have any Mridangam with me--the orgs had managed an instrument for me presumably from T.N.Bala Sir(whom I did not know at that time)--to make a long story short-I managed not to embarass Sastry Garu or the orgs for the 2and half hour concert!! At the end of the concert, TN Bala walks upto Sastry garu and asks him in Tamil "Inda AAlai Engirundu Pidichel:*where did you get this clown from within my earshot!!!-I was not offended in the least by that remark because I felt privileged to have accompanied a Great Vainika--subsequently Bala Sir and myself have been the closest friends for the last forty years!!


Now what has this story got to do with Reethigowla 48 and Dr.SriRam?

I shudder to think what would have happened to me had Reethigowla been in Philly that day instead of TN.Bala--I would have been shot and I would not have lived to tell this story!!!

Reethigowla 48, please chill out--Caveat: I do not know Dr. Sriram from Adam so that I am not taking sides here. A word of advice--everything Dr.SriRam has said about the difficulty of finding top notch accompaniments for top notch artistes is VERY TRUE --even in a big city like New York--Ask Srinadh of Sruthilya --who is a contributor to this forum.
Most importantly about Dr. Sriram's point of the local music teachers not very cooperative is true in NY as well-- the local org will offer a platform for their students to sing on composers day,competitions etc and yet the teachers would not even bother to show up for any of the concerts arranged locally-on top of it they would not insist that their wards attend the concerts to gain insights.

My point is(we have our Reethigowlas amongst our midst as well!!) if each of the "stone-throwers" were to help recruit 10 or 20 members" that would swell the local org ranks and that might make it affordable to engage top notch accompaniments.

My apologies for "poking my head" into this thread--I wanted to "cool' the heat with some frivolity and levity!!!

[vasanthakokilam]

Emani Garu was apparently standing close to the organiser when he made the call(he was also at that time a little hard of hearing) and he thought I was declining because I thought accompanying Emani Garu was beneath me and grabbed the phone and outlines his credentials

That is so funny

Congratulations MKR. It is quite something to get on stage to accompany anyone, let alone Emani Garu.

[reethigowla48]

Hi All; This will be my last post in this thread; before stopping, let me reiterate some of the truthful facts. I am writing these just out of the spirit of furnishing truthful information.

In such cases, the principal artist usually chooses a violinist or Mridangist out of a couple of choices for violin and Mridangam from the geographical area in which the concert is to be held. Artists such as Sri Seshagopalan or Neyveli Santhana Gopalan are very reputed artists and they do not compromise for the sake of money by nodding their head to the local organizer to use any accompaniment. It is their reputation at stake.

Ram Sriram: What an intelligent reasoning !! But this is not at all new to me. I have heard from several veteran Atlantans that you have been regularly citing this "intelligent" reason since time immemorial, so as to hold onto your right as the official CAMAGA mridangist. So it is like; "I am innocent here; what can I do if the great artists themselves pull me onto the stage, throw a mridangam onto my lap and order me to play, making me a culprit in front of you" !!

1. So how is it that for the past 13 years, all the artists have been invariably choosing you alone as the accompanist, each and every time without a single failure? Who provides the "couple of choices" to the professional artists?(now don't say such stories as there is an out-of-state advisory board for that !) Why is that even when Atlanta has much better local mridangists, none of their names has ever been included in this "couple of choices" over the past 13 years, and thus were all barred an opportunity to "start' somewhere and become good accompanists for touring musicians? Isn't this sufficient enough to establish your role in favoring your personal benefits? Can you disprove if I say that you were just exploiting the circumstantial opportunities, always citing logistical reasons, indifference from members and rasikas and your self-glorified merit as a mridangist. You cannot deny this howmuchever intelligent answers you try to cook up here. And you have openly proclaimed that this is what you intend to do in the future too. Well...I don't care. Best of Luck to you and for the rasikas who come prepared to listen to those concerts!!

3. Is there any kind of documented proof, than just a hypothetical word of mouth that says that ALL the artists invariably wanted one single person called "RAM SRIRAM" to be their mridangist, each time they visited Atlanta? And have you made this transparent in any of the CAMAGA annual meetings?

5. Also do you have an AIR grade, which would atleast provide some justifications on your eligibility to be the "official" mridangist?

6. You say that TNS etal don't want their reputation in stake by having bad accompanists. Wonderful self-propaganda !
But you tell me now; isnt it what exactly happened last year when he was accompanied by you and another local violinist? Didnt he literally kill both of you on the stage without any mercy? Till date I pity remembering you sweating helplessly on the stage, while TNS continued unleashing his merciless weapons borne out of his genius on the impotent accompanists. (Anyone doubtful of this can refer to the official recording of this concert by CAMAGA). I just admire your blind confidence, in conveniently covering up those truthful events and still propagate passionately on your self-assigned right and self-glorified merit to be the official whole-sale mridangist in the city !!

On a personal note, I read the comments about my Mridangam accompaniment during one or two concerts. Perhaps the rasika who made that comment was justifiably unhappy with my accompaniment on that day (we all have our good and bad days) or the rasika’s opinion is influenced by his personal dislike of me. I am not intending to dissect the reasons. If it is my accompaniment, I will definitely strive to improve (learning never stops). If it is personal dislike, I could care less. I must also point out that each year, as a Mridangist, I accompany professional musicians in numerous concerts - of these, only two or three are held in Atlanta. I can assure you that I hold no position in any of these other organizations to influence the organizers or the visiting artists. It is the visiting artist, who makes that choice. The local organizer then invites me. The fact that the reputed artist s repeatedly invite me to accompany them in other concerts is enough testimony for me.

1. Hold on: Let me make evident how you underestimate and overestimate the facts for your favor: Underestimation: You say that you played only 2 or 3 CAMAGA concerts last year. But you played for 5 concerts last year, including the one on Composers Day which is not listed in the website.

2. Overestimation: You say that you play "numerous" concerts outside Atlanta. Please list all the concerts you have played last year, outside Atlanta.
Of course I know you will list this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIfrZHseotE where Pantula Rama had to request you on the concert stage to check the sruthi of your mridangam (at 4:29 in the video) ! It was a first-time-in-CM-history experience for me !! Perhaps this should be the best among the testimonies which you claim to have received from the artists. (I hate myself doing these character assassinations. But your authoritarian reply full of distorted truth deserves nothing less than this)


3. if you are sincere about improving your skills, why don't you humbly take a break to do that and in the mean time attempt to provide opportunities for other local artists in and around Atlanta and thus encourage other people's musical abilities and interests?

So I am also closing my case here. My responsibility as a rasika, sincerely concerned about the quality of our music, is over here; I just tried to make very significant criticisms about the true pathetic state of affairs in Atlanta, so that there be some improvements in the current structure; and there be motivation for true "promotion" of carnatic music in Atlanta by CAMAGA, as opposed to the existing "self-promotion" of carnatic music. I am very serious about quality of carnatic music and couldn't bear the concerts of great artists being made mere mockery on the stage. But as Ram Sriram throws all the blame on the Atlantan rasikas (he might next say that the Atlantan rasikas are all so boring people that he was never inspired to play well on the stage !) and incessantly proclaims that he alone will be the official CAMAGA mridangist (till when, god knows!), I give up this case. I don't believe that he is someone who even deserves the bare minimum, to be engaged in an ideological fight with. Atlantans are free to take up this case again if they are serious about the quality of music they get for the money and the time they pay. Of course most Atlantans are well aware of this nonsense going on. Nevertheless I shall do the bare minimal thing of withdrawing my support for this stubborn, autocratic organization always hesitant to any form of change and instead support other local musical ventures and events with the best of my might.
I am thankful for everyone for all the good discussions we have had till now.
Reethigowla48
PS: I think I should change my username to "Ashareeri". Thanks to NSG (vidyarti) for this idea. In Hindu mythology, you all know, we had very regular ashareeris, when the despotic kings and raakshasas would get so upset hearing it. Ashareeris were all very powerful since they proclaimed only the forthcoming truth and since they were not available in any tangible physical form to be destroyed or annihilated, they gave the ultimate torture to the despotic kings and raakshasas

[sureshvv]

Hi All; This will be my last post in this thread...
Nevertheless I shall ... instead support other local musical ventures and events with the best of my might.

Thank you. Please come back and report to us here if you were able to do anything constructive.

[Muthu Kumaran]

ReetiGowla48, hopefully the two posts of Sri. Ram Sriram provides the info you were looking for and as per the above quoted line, you will take up the matter for any follow up using those methods. This sounds like a good way to bring this issue to a conclusion in this thread.

hohohohoho hold on. Bring the issue to a conclusion ... ?? Not so fast !! We started this thread with a mission and we are just getting started. It is true that this discussion is of least relevance to non-Atlanta Rasikas. If Uday and Vasanta kokilam etc. have better things to do with their time than read and respond to these posts, I can't agree more. The intended recipients of these posts are CM lovers of Atlanta, many of whom had voiced these concerns in the past and given up. Eternal optimist as I am, this is my humble attempt to bring them back together and drive a change in the stagnated situation.

Before I reply to Ram Sriram's apparently calm-natured posts, let me assure to all Rasikas reading this thread that I will not resort to profanity or character assasination, but just bring bare facts to surface. I experience a lot of pain in doing so and take time away from my other responsibilities to keep this discussion going -- only because I DO CARE.

My sincere thanks to the administrator(s) of Rasikas.org for providing us with a venue to express our concerns and help us get this message over to the larger CM population in Atlanta. If we were successful in briniging a change by communicating via private channels to CAMAGA's leadership in the past 10 years, we wouldn't have needed to say a thing here.

Stay tuned ..... More coming soon …


.

[vasanthakokilam]

Muthu Kumaran, I was not going to close the thread... but bringing in metaphorical references to Hitler, rAkshasAs and despots about specific individuals made it very unsavory. ( As you stated, you are not going there which is great ). With the latest exchanges I though a détente has been achieved. But please go ahead and continue if you feel there is something to be gained.

[VK RAMAN]

Muthu Kumaran: Please do bring it up including what you and other interested rasikas have done in addition to bring the matter to rasikas.org. Also are you a member of the CAMAGA and have you attended their monthly/quarterly/annual meetings.

[gee]

is this the same sri ram sriram?

http://mycarnatic.org/concerts/?title=20

If so, he is quite capable in accompanying the artist.

[sramaswamy]

Yes

[Sam Swaminathan]

Gee...after viewing the concert in the blog mentioned above....imho...Sri Sriram is definitely a capable artist.

I am eager to hear the responses from both Muthukumaran and Reetigowla on the questions raised by VK Raman in the post #83

[Muthu Kumaran]

Also are you a member of the CAMAGA and have you attended their monthly/quarterly/annual meetings.

VK Raman,

Since you asked about the monthly/quarterly/annual meetings, I need to bring you up-to-speed on how these meeting happen at CAMAGA. First of all, these meetings do not happen on a monthly, quarterly or annual frequency. The constitution allows for bi-annual general body meetings and as much as I can recollect, CAMAGA sends meeting notifications every other year during the last quarter. During this meeting, the objective is to close the election for the following 2-year period. As Ram Sriram said in his post, these meetings are attended by the same 10 families year after year. Isn't it worth spending a few moments figuring out why other members are staying away from these meetings?

A couple of years ago, I attended one of these so-called general body meetings. This meeting was arranged in somebody's house. It had the appearance of a typical Indian get-together and bore not even a remote semblance with a GBM of a registered public entity. The meeting invite specified the start time as 3PM and people started arriving between 4 and 5 PM. No real agenda was circulated, no parliamentary procedure was followed, no motions were introduced, no voting took place and no leader appeared to be in control of the floor. People were just chatting in small groups much of the time . Some members of the core group were having fun sharing recent experiences in hosting artists and interacting with them during their concert tours. Much of this conversation happened in Tamil, thus leaving those handful of Kannada and Telugu speaking guys present wondering what was going on. I could sense a lot of desperation in their faces to plug in and participate. A piece of paper was circulated to collect names and signatures of members present for the purpose of quorum and record keeping.

Now you tell me why anybody would be willing to go back to these meaningless meetings once every 24 months and waste their time? Ram Sriram is correct in observing that the same 10 families attend these meetings year after year. If you are not one of the core group members, the message for you is loud and clear .. 'You just do not belong here'.

[Enraged]

Hahahaha! It seems that Atlanta is the new Cleveland....

[Sangeet Rasik]

Ha ha ha ! Hilarious thread.

Dr. Sriram: please keep up your work on CAMAGA. Something is better than nothing.

As an aside, I will forever remember your excellent lec-dem in 2004 to the kids at the Atlanta temple, in which you offered a new interpretation of "Karnataka Sangeetam" as "Kara-naada sangeetam: Music from the Land of Dark People".

Good thinking, especially on da South Side of A.T.L. 8) Here'z da real deal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsha6OeCIII&NR=1

SR

@@~~~~~ Back to da Vedaz...dat's where it's at!--- Rg Daddy (2011) ~~~~~@@

[litmus]

I do not know any of you here (uday included ) and my post is a bystander's reaction.

Just curious, reethi, do you play the mridangam? That is not to question your musical knowledge but, my God, such vitriol?

Maybe RS hogs the concerts, maybe he dictates like nobody's business and maybe you are right about the whole thing being run by a coterie. But the shots that you have taken at RS (some pot, some cheap) hint at, to my bystander's view at least, an uncontrollable envy. If you had made your point by saying straight out that RS is a bad accompanist, I would not have read any envy in your posts. But jumping between that and saying that he monopolises the mridangam accompaniment screams to me that there is more than meets the eye.

I agree with you about one thing, though. Your handle is your own and you do not need to write under your name. I don't, Twain didn't. Can't write like him, so the best is to use a pseudonym to match him at something.

[Muthu Kumaran]

Back to organizational issues: There were suggestions to organize a youth forum, half hour concerts to showcase young artists from Atlanta, a second function each year, in addition to the Aradhana, to celebrate other composers, lecture demonstrations, etc. I appreciate these valuable suggestions. However, as a committee, we had already considered all of these activities and, about a year ago, passed a resolution that we should hold such events. Why did we not hold these events then? Lack of volunteers and resources; everyone has a wish list but they are unwilling to come forward and say, “I will take the lead role in putting this specific event together and help the organization.”

Let me tell you a little bit more about 'Lack of Volunteers'. If you are involved with Atlanta's cultural activities for a while, you know how vibrant the community is. We have the luxury of being a metro and at the same time, not too big like New York or San Francisco. Being geographically bound, the community draws from the same limited pool of volunteers for various activities. Unlike in other large metro cities, it takes under an hour to travel from one end of the city to another on a good Saturday afternoon, so these volunteers drive from one activity to another seamlessly during weekends. Just visit http://www.AtlantaDunia.com and see for yourself how much activity there is and how much volunteer enthusiasm we are blessed with in this city !!

What I am getting at with this preface is, Organizations that want to tap into this volunteer pool have always found a way to do so. Have you ever paused to figure out how organizations such as Ahobila Mutt, Hindu Temple and Kannada Koota are able to draw from the same volunteer pool (that we are claiming doesn't exist) and from the same community to put together great Carnatic music programs every year? Carnatic Music is perhaps one of 10 things on their agenda, but they are able to make it happen because leaders in these organizations display an enormous passion to bring programs that involve the community and especially Carnatic music students and teachers. If any organization is sitting back and waiting for volunteers to magically flock to them, it ain't gonna happen . Our leadership needs to make the first move and show enthusiasm and passion to find followers. A little bit of approachability, a nice smile and a friendlier and welcoming demeanor will go a long way in making members and volunteers feel at home and contribute big time to these new initiatives.

You acknowledged that the board has considered and passed a resolution to add various programs that involves community and local talent, but these plans did not materialize for lack of volunteers. Consider this.. One of the board members (serving in honorary capacity or advisory, whatever it is) in CAMAGA's previous term is Atlanta's best known cultural event organizer. This person has been putting together volunteer teams to successfully bring top most artistes for Sankara netralaya's annual benefit concert year after year. Not only is she able to garner enormous support from volunteers, but also these concerts are very well attended in spite of being ticketed or donation-based. Also during her term as CAMAGA's board member, she worked tirelessly to feature some of the local talent on various occasions for Hindu temple, with the help of a great volunteer support, I believe. How is it possible that when these volunteer-attractors excel when working with for other organizations and they fail to attract support while working with CAMAGA's leadership? Do you see the missing link here ??

It is puzzling and somewhat annoying to learn that we have leaders in this organization that excel elsewhere and volunteers that work harder for other organizations and we are in an eternal search for volunteer force.

[Enna_Solven]

You are trying to draw a connection where none exists. Based on my experience in at least two cities, there are always volunteers (young and plenty, fitting the 20-something and enthusiastic mold) for charity events (once a year AID concert, etc.) And the Hindu temple, kannada koota, thamizh mandram events always overflow with volunteers and crowds. But the same people are nowhere to be found for regular music only events. You see, they are just not interested in CM. The Sankara Nethralaya concert that you cite is a classic example. The volunteers are there in their zeal to collect money for a cause back home. That is all.

[reethigowla48]

Last year's concerts that took place atleast had accompanists' information. Look at this year's webpage. It is already March 11th and we do not know who would accompany the main artist for the concert on April 2nd.

http://www.ipnatlanta.net/camaga/

I enjoy even the violin and mridangam equally in a concert and looks like the organization expects us to question them even about who the artists are in a concert. Why do they wish to receive so many emails from each member asking who the accompanist is, I do not see any point in them putting up the concert information too. As Always_Evolving said, should we even ask who the accompanists are for a concert that is supposed to be there by default. A concert in itself is a teamwork. If the accompanists have not been decided, a simple TBD would make me understand.

Please look at the current CAMAGA website now,
http://www.ipnatlanta.net/camaga/

Hope you/everyone see the "TBA"s in the concert announcements (for those who do not know, there were never any TBA's or TBD's before, as the member, fun_on_the_move mentioned in his post).
So, this IS what is called "HYPOCRISY". Let me explain.
In one way the organizers (and generally people in power) mock the members (the people) for raising issues and questions about the organization running indifferent and corrupt.
They helplessly use the conventional weapons in their armor--"Oh you members are all so pathetic and indifferent and silent when you come for concerts, which is why the organization has gone bad and now you guys all criticize the office bearers for the same? And now you guys come as some "anonymous" goondas in some random online thread and raise questions and criticisms, which we are not actually bound to answer, for your anonymity. If you dare, reveal your name so that we answer to your questions and make changes possible." !!

But when they say this, they are simultaneously frightened and devastated to the core, by the "real", "truthful" issues raised by the members. They, in reality, religiously read the comments and questions in detail and unconsciously obey to them, as has been clearly proved by the "TBA" act, even though outside, they put up the pretentious, confident, face that they are least affected by these criticisms (so that they get the support of the other non-Atlantan "rasikas" here (who are all not aware of the real issues and make comments based on some ideologies, stubbornly refusing to believe what Atlantans say)). And they also make sure that they don't acknowledge the member who made the suggestion, because that would then equal to admitting that they have clearly had mistakes on their part. So this proves that they are always in this childish, Kindergarten level of "denial". Need to grow up

So all honorable members and hypocrites here and in CAMAGA: please understand (atleast within yourselves) that any change requires an initial "spark", and some sort of "profanity" (as you people conveniently dub it). The old, "peaceful", "respectful", "gentle" and "mild" forms of change through "dialogue", "collective action" and blah blah are all useless and never successful, insofar as they never really "initiate" a change (CAMAGA's history itself proves the same; there have been lot of Atlantans who in the past, raised these issues and talked directly to the office-bearers, but with no response or change) This is precisely why Sri Muthukumaran's "decent" and elaborate rendition of truthful facts remain unanswered and unresponded, while my "profane" and vicious "attack" (without any degree of sacrifice of the Truth) evoked instant responses and created invisible anxieties for the office bearers.
So Atlantans, let us all congratulate each other for this initial "small" success and nonetheless, thanks to CAMAGA for putting up the TBA's !!

PS: By posting here I am knowingly breaking my earlier promise of not posting in this thread anymore; but sorry; really couldn't control myself from celebrating this "small" success.

[vasanthakokilam]

I do not take kindly to you calling people here 'hypocrites' but let me not focus on that..

Let me be frank with you. Given your post above, I have a feeling you would not have a problem with me openly and frankly stating this.

As a neutral observer with no dogs in this fight, my queasy feeling is because of the inability to distinguish you between someone who is fighting for the quality of the CM in Atlanta and someone who has an axe to grind against the organization and individuals like Dr. Ram Sriram for whatever reason and using this 'promotion of CM in its pure form' as a front for that purpose. Now, you do smell pretty much like the latter given your manner of writing (which you are wearing as a badge of honor ) and taking pot shots in a completely one sided fashion. If your interest is really CM, you have to wash off that smell. And that is your burden and not ours.

[sureshvv]

I have a simpler explanation.

reethigowla48 is a stop energy vampire.

[reethigowla48]

Dear Vasanathakokilam,
I appreciate your role of censorship and moral policing in rasikas.org, but would be of better use if you gave better attention to all my previous posts before pouncing up with wrong conclusions, so as to execute your regular agenda of suppressing any criticism.
First of all it looks like you have not read any of my posts in which I made sure to appreciate the positive aspects of organizers in CAMAGA and their thankless services (See post#30 of this thread). To repeat for the thousandth time, what I and many others here object to are very clear points which have already been elucidated in this thread.
A relevant example I would like to cite is that of Nashville(neighbor city of Atlanta) music sabha (I dont know their name) and their sangEtha ArAdhana(Office bearers of CAMAGA-Atlanta and Nashville music sabha people, I guess, one Dr Sankaran Mahadevan, are both equally strangers to me. So I have no personal agenda here, as you might next accuse me of). But the Nashville sangEtha ArAdhana conducted yearly, is much much superior to CAMAGA's in all aspects--in the quality of music, the respect and care they give for composers during the ArAdhana, in the wholesome musical experience rasikas obtain there, the total hospitality and warmth. Every year several Atlantans visit and participate in Nashvile ArAdhana. Nashville in fact has much lesser revenue when compared to CAMAGA, and still they manage to put up good work and gain rasikas's appreciation and sincere participation; a good epitome for the striving towards musical fraternity. You can ask any Atlantan rasika about this. And I as a music lover, will support Nashville with all my might and service, because one just feel like doing that for them !
Well I am not comparing apples with oranges here, but apples with apples indeed. The problem in Atlanta is clearly about poor leadership and mere indifference.
So now please understand that I am in no way near to what you unsuccessfully claim as "someone who has an axe to grind against the organization and individuals like Dr. Ram Sriram for whatever reason and using this 'promotion of CM in its pure form' as a front for that purpose".
Do you agree or not? You owe me a clarification for your quite myopic comment.
Thanks !!

[vasanthakokilam]

reethigowla: Nothing. Of course I have read all your posts. You have not yet washed off the smell You blow hot and cold. You called them hypocrites in post #93 and in #96 you say "positive aspects of organizers in CAMAGA and their thankless services".. What kind of sin have they committed in their previous life to be called a hypocrite by a nameless faceless accuser in spite of doing such a thankless service. That is the smell you have to wash off before you can gain some empathy. If you do not care for that, that is fine as well.

You do not owe me an explanation at all, I was just stating how you come across to me. I am not writing this as a moderator as you have stated above, just as an observer.

Let me tell you something. I am not naive or myopic about these things. If there is an association there will always be turf level skirmishes. Dr. Sriram provided detailed explanations for many of the points raised by you and others. He provided ways for you to take it up with them using the established procedures. Give it a try.

[reethigowla48]

Hi Vasanthakokilam,
Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately it doesn't convince me at all and whatever you have talked, sentence by sentence,proves that your points are all naive (sorry to say that) even though you claim that you have read all our posts and have good understanding of what's going on. Let me risk wasting some time to explain why.

You called them hypocrites in post #93 and in #96 you say "positive aspects of organizers in CAMAGA and their thankless services"..

Yes you are right. I called so, because I am very clear about why I am calling so. Excuse my thousandth time repetition: I just don't understand why it is so hard to drive this idea into your head that, just doing a thankless service doesn't make a person divine or completely error-free; nor does it justify right each and every action of this person. Thankless service is one thing which is definitely appreciated and respected; at the same time error is an error; spade is a spade; indifference is indifference, which will all be criticized, regardless of past or present (or future!)personal attributes, and if not heard, it will be made public for the knowledge of everyone, since that is the only way to deal with it. If you cannot understand even such a simple ground for an unbiased, impersonal, non-egotist debate, I don't think you have any eligibility to post in this thread, as an observer; yes now I understand why you are given the role of the official moral police of rasikas.org.

What kind of sin have they committed in their previous life to be called a hypocrite by a nameless faceless accuser in spite of doing such a thankless service.

Here you are precisely trying to "personalize" the problem by talking about "sin" and "past births" ! You are trying to victimize the culprits so as to evoke sympathy for them. Come on, this is so conventional and cheap a method and I am really bored of typing further explanations for them. In that sense you prove yourselves to be too scopeless and boring for me to continue my case here Thanks, in a way.

If there is an association there will always be turf level skirmishes

As residents of Atlanta, we have underwent the problems by ourselves and clearly understood that they were not just "turf level skirmishes" as you are trying to generalize and belittle them. See, this is exactly where you are naive. If the problems were just superficial, why would we waste our times here writing detailed theses about what's going on (the same is already stated in post#81). So you lose your point again. [/quote]

Dr. Sriram provided detailed explanations for many of the points raised by you and others.

No. He did not provide answers for all the questions. He conveniently omitted the ones for which he had no answers. To be precise he didn't answer to these important posts #79, #87, #91. So you are wrong here again.

He provided ways for you to take it up with them using the established procedures. Give it a try

Come on. Again my thousandth repetition: I explained in post #93 that the "established procedures" never worked in Atlanta. And that's why this thread was started in the first place, for which we are thankful to you. Muthu Kumaran said the same in post# 81. Then why are you repeating the same moral advice of trying the "established procedures"? This means you never read my or Muthu Kumaran's posts "carefully" and just proclaim falsely that you did read them. Atleast be careful in the future.

[smala]

Start your own orgn. Reethigowla, quit cribbing so repeatedly.

[sureshvv]

This idiot can't. He prefers to spend his energy destroying something that exists.