How important is tani Avartanam

[mahesu]

Nice explaination Nick
Even though the main artist shows Talam, tempo is not maintained by the main artist but by the mridangam artist. Still the conductor is not the main artist practically.
Time allotment has to be agreed mutually in advance. What we are trying to do is to revise Tani options so that it is made enjoyable to everyone. Definitely the present format is not liked by most I believe. There is a difference between a short desciplined, crisp Tani for couple of songs vis-a-vis the long Aruthis / Thirmanams after these songs. While the short Tani cuts the option of being considered as bio breaks, the present long ones are excuses for bio-break or for rushing to the canteen. we cannot argue that Tanis are not understood by raskikas, same goes with raga alapanas too for different set of people. Then the only option remains is to have devotional concerts with no raga or Tani, which is not a classical concert is meant to be.

[rshankar]

So, I have always wondered why it was not OK for the percussion artist(s) to explain the tani they will be playing, prior to executing it, or maybe even afterwards, just like the main artist sometimes announces rare or tricky rAgas? I have not heard/seen anyone do this in all the concerts I've attended. This may improve the interest - for now, all the laya-ignorant are able to understand is so little, that their minds tend to wander - towards trips to bathrooms, to the canteen etc...I think the reason why these breaks do not happen during the main program is that it is better understood, and their minds are too actively engaged to pay attention to other issues...

[Nick H]

where we disagree, it is a matter of minor quibbles only, but...

I'd say that the tempo is very much maintained by the main artist: hence the thigh-slapping tradition. The mridangist has to follow, even when the main artist is wrong. Mridangists are adept at this, and will follow even inexperienced children unless their rhythm breaks down completely. Of course, there is dialogue, and there are times that other artists do look to the mridangist for talam support. There are artists whose imagination can, in manodharma, sometimes get disconnected from that talam consciousness.

Definitely the present format is not liked by most I believe.

Do you really think it is "most?" The walkers out seem, to me, to be a less proportion than a few years ago. Also. they include those who would walk out after the main piece whatever followed it --- and there are concerts in which I have felt that a string of tukkadas has detracted from the weight of what preceded them, and I can see why some wish to avoid that feeling. Then there are some that leave as the clock ticks up to what seems to be their fixed leaving time, again, whatever!

I don't know if I am in the minority, but I am mostly, in favour of the current format. It does not always work, and the tani is one of the places it can fall down. I heard a very good one recently: I couldn't fault it, except that it was too loud and long for the concert and song it was part of. It is part of the mridangist's art to make make the tani appropriate. When there are several percussionists, this is particularly difficult. It can be done, but I'd accept that perhaps it should be done more often.

[mahesu]

Then let us try to disagree more
There are thigh slappers who are more deviating the temo than the people who just show the fingers but are perfect in the tempo. Whatsoever be the case, it is the mridangist who makes it look as if the tempo is maintained correctly and in whichever concert the mridangist maintains (conducts) the tempo through the song as initially intended by the main artist, the concert becomes a success and viceversa. In reality the tempo maintaining is a weakness for many artists and the mridangists are the ones who cover this weakness.
Moreover in instrumental music like veena, flute etc, it is either the sishyas or the rasikas who show the talam, they cannot be called the conductor, however the mridangist is the one again maintainging the tempo, irrespective of who shows the talam.

[Nick H]

, it is the mridangist who makes it look as if the tempo is maintained correctly

Exactly what I'm saying! No disagreement, I'm afraid

As I understand the mechanics... In HM, the tempo is set (and changed) by the main artist, but the tabla player is responsible for marking the talam by playing the correct tekka, thus keeping the main artist informed as to the progression of the cycle. In CM, this does not happen. Even purely sarva laghu does not indicate the talam counts in the same way ...even though mridangam has "tekka" lessons/compositions.

I'm not saying that one can't figure out the beat from the mridangist: it would be strange if one couldn't figure it out from a percussion instrument (although, come to think of it, there are times.... ) nor am I saying that the mridangam does not help to maintain tempo.

So I'm still just quibbling a bit, not disagreeing! :$

(Actually, only recently, I heard Veena Jeyaraj saying how valuable the mridangist could be when playing neraval, and how a good mridangist allowed them to be more adventurous and take more risks without straying)

[anandasangeetham]

just an off beat thought...why have a tani at all? the percussion artist can add much value and also showcase his/her vidwat when playing for the song / neraval and swaras.....then why a tani? all the more when little of it is understood by very few in the audience? Most of the times it is seen as a break for the main artist and the violinist....(i am more apt to be wrong here)...there is ample opportunity for he percussionist to experiment/uplift the song/show case the vidwat/ etc during the vary many sangatis/neravals/thanams (where allowed),swaras etc....TMK will you look at this as an innovation? thanks. With due respects to the percussion artists...this is nothing to belittle their contribution. there are of course vadya vrindas, separate percussion ensembles, tala vadya kutcheris etc where they can play a tani which will be better appreciated as most of audience come prepared to what they want to hear....I think this is also very important..as most of the audience who come to any cutcheri come to enjoy listening to the main artist.....playing a tani to a target audience will have a better appreciation and acknowledgement than to a section who are someone else target audience....

[VK RAMAN]

"there is ample opportunity for he percussionist to experiment/uplift the song/show case the vidwat/ etc" here is an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3vIbsbsBO8 - excellent thoppi