Violin accompaniment - An analysis of the best

kapali · Post by **kapali** » 23 Aug 2013, 22:36

I remember many concerts in which Lalgudi shone as a master accompanist when he used to follow MMI in the Ramanami concerts in Bangalore where both MMI and Lalgudi gave full vent to their creative skills be it in alapana,niraval and swarams. MMI was one vocalist who used to give the accompaniments full opportunity to display their virtuosity and this was one major factor that made those concerts lively and memorable. Lalgudi was adept in reproducing every intricate nuances of the master to the delight of the audience. Typical example are Lalgudi's exact responses in the Niravadhi Sukhada and Sogasu Chooda Tharama songs of MMI concert at Mysore Ramaseva Mandali!

shrikanth_mohan · Post by **shrikanth_mohan** » 24 Aug 2013, 11:58

@KNV - Sir /\ I cant agree with you more that such a combination is what every vocalist desires to have in an accompanist and that what every aspiring violinist works towards

@balasubramani - Its just amazing how you make random assumptions with a lot of bias, with each line of your post. I could only take your post in Jest!

I do respect people older than me and hence choose to not retort to your hasty judgments.
P.S Yes. I am a performing violinist and I do know the difference bet accompanying and solo concerts

@Everyone else - Yes. LGJ might be my favourite. But the reason of me starting this thread is NOT to establish my fondness for LGJ upon you, but rather to find out what other CM rasikas think about other accompanying violinists. Its an effort to accept learn and understand about other violinists also

And someone mentioned that I had a bias against VVS! Kindly check my initial post. I have been rooting for VVS ever since the first post.

@SrinathK - Exactly why I wanted to start this thread. I wanted to listen to recordings of other greats too. After reading all your discussions, I have become rather curious about MTC, MSG, TNK and contemporary artists like Sriram Parasuram, Ganesh kumaresh, Nagai Murali

@Kapali - One of the reasons for my reverence for LGJ is because of his brilliant accompanying for MMI. If people listen to his replies to the neraval at "kalinil Silambu" of MMI, you would understand why I talk about LGJ this much!

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 24 Aug 2013, 12:30

I have become rather curious about MTC, MSG, TNK and contemporary artists like Sriram Parasuram, Ganesh kumaresh, Nagai Murali

Things are a bit clear now . You can brace up for the samples coming soon.

you would understand why I talk about LGJ this much!

That is already understood by most of us . The question is whether you need more samples than the kalinil silambu for MMI . Lalgudi is at his best for the same with Somu , for example ..though diplomatically eschewing a few unorthodox yet typical Somu phrases .

shrikanth_mohan · Post by **shrikanth_mohan** » 24 Aug 2013, 14:00

varsha wrote: Things are a bit clear now . You can brace up for the samples coming soon.

That is already understood by most of us . The question is whether you need more samples than the kalinil silambu for MMI . Lalgudi is at his best for the same with Somu , for example ..though diplomatically eschewing a few unorthodox yet typical Somu phrases .

Would love to hear samples of LGJ's accompaniment for Madurai Somu

Havent heard ever! Could you post some links?

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 24 Aug 2013, 14:10

Code: Select all

Could you post some links

yes ofcourse . over the weekend

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 24 Aug 2013, 17:55

A Home called Parvathi
Srikanth_Mohan,
Please visit the above link.
You will find great Somu concerts, some with Lalgudi on the violin.

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 25 Aug 2013, 07:13

Srikanth_Mohan,
I will continue to upload as individual pieces . This is not to be construed as a statement of relative merits.for example , for this song I can give examples with msg, mc , l shankar right upto some unkown names . I leave the analysis part to you and others. After a few I will move away from Lalgudi onto others in a respectful mode to a set of practitioners who operate under very difficult circumstances .Over the years I have found that listeners find it easiest to assess / rate a violinist first .. the main artist next and the laya folks last . Poor violinist - My heart skips in sympathy everytime a violinist has to respond .
And then there are jonty rhodes kind of violinis6ts who attack the challenge instead of following it.The extempore element is most severe with the violist - and yet can choose to play second fiddle

I start with a song which folks in the past have not downloaded - probably sighing - oh no - not that song again.
archive.org gives us the liberty to listen online (thank you rsachi )
And we have ten versions of this combo only - for this simple song itself - each magnificently different

https://archive.org/details/12ORamaNinn ... alaRamadas
A link for a more serious track - a shortened rtp which is rushed through from the tanam
https://archive.org/details/2RTPShanmukhapriyaSOM
There are more glorious instances in the phases of Somus career when he was trying to emulate nadaswaram . The same Shanmukhapriya gets more bhayankara - one can feel the earth trembling....
Will conclude for Lalgudi with a small bunch in one link , which captures a variety of inspired music .
A lifetime is not enough . The ones who start early are so lucky !!!!

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 25 Aug 2013, 09:44

How is it that no mention has been made about...

V. Sethuraman – Violin

Kandadevi Alagirisamy – Violin

Chowdiah...

Govindaswamy Naicker

and many others..

Dr L Subramaniam has also Accompanied Chembai in many concerts... He has got appreciation from chembai...

Chembai told him:

"I have sung with five
generations of musicians, I know your talent. You will not make a single paise from medicine.
In the mastery of the violin you will be a chakravarthy (emperor)"...

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 25 Aug 2013, 09:49

They will all appear . Leisurely . Unless we are all in a hurry . The difficulty of our day is not the availability of the tracks with us in some form . It is the effort taken to point out the appropriate ones .
Will put up chowdiah next

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 25 Aug 2013, 09:50

There is a Sangeethapriya upload of Manakkal Rangarajan with Chowdiah. You must listen o know how Chowdiah could lift a concert and hey he was the #1 choice for many vocalists and audiences in his time. And Manakkal is brilliant for me.

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 25 Aug 2013, 10:08

https://archive.org/details/3RArAPhaNis ... TyAgarAja2
I conclude my Lalgudi bunch .
The Sangita Gnanamu has become part of my existence for over a decade !!!!
And to learn that all these artists wouldbe cooped upin a 650 sq ft flat in places like nagpur , practising jovially the whole night - before and after the concert . And they were not recorded . I wish I was the mat on which they all sat

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 25 Aug 2013, 11:49

Varsha-Ji Thanks a bunch... The Somu-LGJ harikhAmbhOji was just too brilliant for words.. Lalgudi's final reply is enough to savour for a lifetime. Can this get any better? Oozing genius all the way.. All the lovelu kuraippu patterns with the ateetha eduppu & of course reproducing the final kOrvai with his inimitable variations and flair... Just breathtaking!!!

We owe so much to all the great souls who meticulously recorded such gems and shared it with us.

varsha wrote:A lifetime is not enough

So True

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 25 Aug 2013, 15:32

1.shri.ariyAkudi_rAmAnuja_iyengAr-vocal WITH

2.Mysore. shri.T_chowdiah-violin

Songs covered...
01-vanajAkshirO-varNa-kalyANi-Adhi-pUchi_S_iyengAr
02-entharAni_thanakentha-harikAmbOdhi-Adhi-thyAgarAja
03-rAmanATham_bhajEham-kAmavarDhini-rUpaka-m_dhIkShithar
04-Emi_jEsithE_nEmi-thOdi-thriputa-thyAgarAja
05-mAyanAi_mannu-shri-Adhi-AndAL
06-shLOka-sinDhubhairavi-incomplete

http://mfi.re/listen/y19iwtyqd66z28z/AR ... oncert.mp3

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 25 Aug 2013, 17:03

TR Balu... needs no introduction..( Sorry It is not the one relating to Karunanidhi Group...)

The first student of GNB...

Concert_details:
Artists:
1.shri.TR_bAlasubramaNiam-vocal
2.shri.lAlgudi_G_jayarAman-violin
3.shri.vellore_rAmabhaDhran-mrudhangam

Songs covered...
01-praNamAmyaham-gouLa-Adhi-m_vAsudhEvAchAr
02-shiva_shiva_enarAdha-kAmavarDhini-Adhi-thyAgarAja
03-shri_maDhurApuri-bilahari-rUpaka-m_dhIkShithar
04-brundhAvana_nilayE-rIthigouLa-Adhi-UthukAdu_venkatasubbayya
05-nI_pAdhamE_gathi-naLinakAnthi-rUpaka-GNB
06-EthAvunarA-kalyANi-Adhi-thyAgarAja

Listen here..

http://mfi.re/listen/hb57sidydp94sdo/TR ... oncert.mp3

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 25 Aug 2013, 17:53

https://archive.org/details/03Raghuvara ... iTyAgarAja

A stunning phase from a gnb-tchowdiah-csm mysore concert . mind boggling method of accompanying
I feel sad whenever I read the word Soundiah or about that Ariyakudi Joke - searching for more strings .....
How easy it is to decry . Appreciating takes so much more effort.

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 25 Aug 2013, 18:31

GNB 029-E Swara-008-GNB-RTP-Tharaka Brahma-Kalyani...75mts....

with choudiah violin..Shanmukananda Hall..

http://mfi.re/listen/ppcqt3xyjygb76z/GN ... alyani.mp3

eesha · Post by **eesha** » 25 Aug 2013, 19:56

venkatakailasam :
TR Balu... needs no introduction..( Sorry It is not the one relating to Karunanidhi Group...)

The first student of GNB...

Concert_details:

The full concert is here:

http://www.sangeethapriya.org/down.php
Album ID: 03-C0779

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 25 Aug 2013, 20:10

Thanks Shri eesha...It was only a part of the concert..

Concert GNB Lalgudi G Jayaraman & Ramanathapuram C S Muruga boopathi

A concert held at Pudkottai in 1964 or 1965...Audio..courtsy and credit to my friend Shri Jayadev Menon..

3 Hours and 26 mts concert..

song list:
01 Varnam _Abhogi
02 Eka dantam bhajeham_Bilahari
03 Saketa nagara natha_Harikambodhi
04 Sundara tara deham_Pantuvarali
05 Raga sudha rasa_Andolika
06 Sri Subrahmanyaya Namaste_Kambodhi
07 Tappakane_Suddha Bangala
08 RTP_Shanmukhapriya
09 Karanam kettu vadi_Purvikalyani
10 Kannane_Kalyani
11 Slokam and Smaravaaram...A rare Karaharapriya...
12 Dhavalarupa_Anandabhairavi
13 Mangalam_Saurashtram

Some comments...

" Prof. KK Ramesh

TREASURE"

" Narayanan LAKSHMANA IYER

Remarkable. A very rare excellent rendering by Sarvasri GNB-Lalgudi- CSMurugaBhoopathy in the 1960s. Listening pleasure cannot be explained in words but to be really experienced. Thanks to Sri Jaya Deva Menon and Sri V.Kailasam."

" Ram Lakshmanan
Excellent ragamalika after the pallavi and an electrifying thani avartanam by Sri Murugabhupati - wow!!"

" Ram Lakshmanan

What a rare concert! Lalgudi Sri Jayaraman's Shanmukhapriya alapanai between 2:12 and 2:18 is just outstanding with several flashes of brilliance!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8raz2e_KQbs

shrikanth_mohan · Post by **shrikanth_mohan** » 25 Aug 2013, 22:34

Very happy to see the post get some clarity and direction now

Been caught up with some work. Will listen to all the recordings and comment in a few days

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 26 Aug 2013, 00:11

varsha wrote:I feel sad whenever I read the word Soundiah or about that Ariyakudi Joke - searching for more strings .....
How easy it is to decry . Appreciating takes so much more effort.

Indeed. Petty and inane so-called "wit" has always been highly rated and widely quoted in Chennai's Carnatic circles.

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 26 Aug 2013, 08:28

The amazing thing about TC was that he rose above all that pettiness--was one of the most large-hearted musicians of ANY era--both on and off the stage.Once in Bangalore(this was related to me by LGJ himself) when LGJ performed before a packed audience TC is supposed to have remarked to the audience"Is there anyone in this world who could have played like LGJ much to the embarassment of LGJ-- It is no accident that from the 1920's(when TC was in his twenties) that he would accompany Ari,Chembai,Musiri,Maharajapuram to be followed by the SSI-MMI_GNB_era. GNB brought out the best of TC with his fast-paced brigas which TC would match phrase for phrase. When TNK.LGJ,MSG,MC burst on the scene in the fifties, TC--- along with Papa Sir and Rajamanikkam Pillai saw fewer opportunities to accompany and used to mockingly lament to my father(who was Secy. of Shanmukhanda sabha at that time in his coarse Tamil"Engalai ellam maranduttele"(you have forgotten us we have not retired yet!!)

A colourful personality with a majestic aura about him.He was one of the musicians we hosted in our house in Bombay for whom I never got tired of running errands for!!!!

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 26 Aug 2013, 09:02

Chowdiah is a real hero forever. And ever. Son of a farmer who ran away from home to learn music, taught by a very strict Bidaram Krishnappa (vocalist), tamed the difficult instrument violin on his own and innovated to do his best in the era when violin volume paled in comparison to the strident voices of Chembai and ARI etc., was a leonine presence on the stage, a hugely generous man to fellow artistes and youngsters, who breathed his last telling Mr. Srikantiah that great classical concerts should be free since in our country most music lovers can't afford to buy tickets in sabhas.

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 26 Aug 2013, 10:09

" who breathed his last telling Mr. Srikantiah that great classical concerts should be free since in our country most music lovers can't afford to buy tickets in sabhas."

Unfortunately, Parvathi is not permitting down loads...

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 26 Aug 2013, 10:15

Unfortunately, Parvathi is not permitting down loads...

One would think that a prolific uploader like you would guess the reason . :-*
It is simply a matter of respecting the artists rights. Yourself and myself can take the liberty of uploading and backtrack if there are objections. Bigger institutions have to take care of this a bit more carefully .

kittappa · Post by **kittappa** » 26 Aug 2013, 11:11

I feel sad whenever I read the word Soundiah or about that Ariyakudi Joke - searching for more strings .....
How easy it is to decry . Appreciating takes so much more effort.

Indeed. Petty and inane so-called "wit" has always been highly rated and widely quoted in Chennai's Carnatic circles.

'Soundiah' was the name given to Chowdiah by GNB. Ariyakkudi and many others were aghast at TC's experiments with multiple strings. They rightly averred that TC was being insensitive towards not only their music, not only to his own violin play but to CM itself. Jokes, humour were all part and parcel of CM. There is nothing to feel sad about here. One must be sensitive towards humour also. No use shutting oneself in a cocoon and pretend as if there should not be any humour or leg pulling.

MKR wrote

The amazing thing about TC was that he rose above all that pettiness--was one of the most large-hearted musicians of ANY era--both on and off the stage.Once in Bangalore(this was related to me by LGJ himself) when LGJ performed before a packed audience TC is supposed to have remarked to the audience"Is there anyone in this world who could have played like LGJ much to the embarassment of LGJ--

Once at a Bangalore concert of Mali, Chowdiah came in sat in the front row and after 10 minutes got up with a dramatic flourish threw his angavastram around his shoulders showing clear disapproval of Mali and walked out. The Bangalore audience rooted to Chowdiah began shouting and yelling at Mali and poor Mali had to beat a hasty retreat. So much for Chowdiah's broadmindedness.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 26 Aug 2013, 12:09

kittappa wrote:Once at a Bangalore concert of Mali, Chowdiah came in sat in the front row and after 10 minutes got up with a dramatic flourish threw his angavastram around his shoulders showing clear disapproval of Mali and walked out. The Bangalore audience rooted to Chowdiah began shouting and yelling at Mali and poor Mali had to beat a hasty retreat. So much for Chowdiah's broadmindedness.

I haven't heard this story but knowing what I do about flute Mali's behavior patterns, I would give Chowdiah the benefit of the doubt. Of the two, he was by far a more reliable marker of human courtesy and grace, from all accounts. This of course, does not take away from the great enjoyment I derive from Shri Mali's flute playing.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 26 Aug 2013, 12:36

kittappa wrote:No use shutting oneself in a cocoon and pretend as if there should not be any humour or leg pulling.

One has a constitutionally guaranteed right to one's petty inanities in the name of "humor", but it is unreasonable to expect that everybody partake of it.

radhasuryanarayanan · Post by **radhasuryanarayanan** » 26 Aug 2013, 13:02

It does warrant more postings.i agree with CACM.
Shri bhagawan mentions that LGJ performed with his children.
But in later years as already known due to various reasons GJR Krishnan &Viji perform duets.
In the case of Dr.Narmadha she performed with MSG (the epoch maker as mentioned),
You hv to agree on the vast difference when the epoch maker himself performs and the next generation performs.
The lists of violinists of the next generation had more to share from the mainstream performers.
Dr.Narmadha is unique performing both CM & KM concerts.
God's own country
Devil's own people.
But even every Devil deserves its due.
Violin techniques cannot be equated to gimmicks.
I am surprised for this ur usage that LGJ 's recital is free from gimmicks.
Plz let me know what exactly u mean by gimmicks.
LGJ never wanted his children to accompany and Lalgudy Viji started accompanying very recently .
You may refer print media concert records for the same.
Both MSG and Narmadha : did solo and accompaniments.
MSG was of the opinion as seen in his interviews that accompaninent gives challenges and also makes the accompanying artist to think faster and apply the mind.
So he encouraged Narmadha to pursue accompaniments paralell to solo concerts from her very early part of the career.
People know what an outstanding performer she is.
All musicians and rasikas know these facts.but how come this escaped ur kind attention.
There is no bias Nick but only facts.
The sugar coats melt and the musical capsules stay on.
Shrikant has highlighted requisites for accompanists ratings.
To me it seems more like a summary of what the great violinists did. Eureka.
As Cacm rightly puts it LGJ; MSG and TNK brought their own traditional flavour and made it their style..

cacm wrote:IT DOES WARRANT more POSTINGS! I am not even writing anything because if I write that Kumbakonam Rajamanikam Pillai, Mayavaram Govindaraja Pillai, "Soundiah" Chowdiah, "Suswaram" Thiruvalangadu Sundaresa Iyer, Chittoor Gopalakrishnan, MC, R.K.Venkatarama Sastriar- for that matter any one who accompanied M.S.S. because Sri.T.Sadasivam made sure they were competent and good for their role-not to mention SEVERAL others WERE EQUALLY GREAT as Accompanists,
I can expect more brickbats than I am getting already...In my view LGJ, MSG, TNK BROUGHT a NEW DIMENSION to accompanying on the violin: LGJ in my view was one of the greatest MUSICIANS in MANY ASPECTS and DIMENSIONS of twentieth century Carnatic music, MSG was TECHNICALLY the BEST, TNK had the uncanny ability to bring out the greatness of anyone he accompanied. As I find the level of tolerance is low from my experience I just read & enjoy the opinions & writings of many here who after all are the custodians of the future of our music.
I also contend that there are many violinists of today who are EXCELLENT AS WELL AS IN OTHER INSTRUMENTS TOO.. VKV

The 3 great violinists established a masterly position to the violin solo and dedicated their time i must say ;their life time to make it so popular and by their performances convinced people on the greatness of the instrument..
They reached people thro accompaniments; thro solo violin concerts.
They had no bias and had an open mind to absorb and reproduce anything with their violins.
Their legendary output must not be reduced to such cheap levels just for the sake of Shrikant..the silent angel..

The rest of the world follow them.
Shrikant mentions on the applause.
While the vocalists body language attracts visual attention and convinces even the layman thro swaying movements EastWNSouth, all violinists talk thro their subtle violins with minimum gestures.
Kunnakudy ,legendary violinist was very well known for his action and crowd packed concerts.
I was totally moved when I heard LGJ Naajivadara.WOW.what a Bilahari.
Shri Bhagavan ; You are a great fan of LGJ.
I am a fan of all the three great violinists.
Shrikant seems to be controversial thirsty uses LGJ violin maestro the legend for his own expressions.
All violinists play their role in accompaniments to follow the main artist like a shadow.
Shri TNK in one of his recent intetview a couple of years ago mentioned the scope of timings to the accompaniments in earlier days and present days.
This was remarkable.
He clearly highlighted that during his own yesteryear concerts it was a healthy tolerance between vocalist and violinist with mutual respect.
Shrikant..plz tell me wr this s happening: i mean the tolerance.Leading vocalists do feel that they are the main artistes and the accompanying artistes are a sub division.
MSG sir said once in a crt...
It s team work.
The musical virtuosos Chembai;Madurai Mani Iyer; GNB and all the leading artistes of their generation encouraged their
Endaro mahanubavulu Andariki Vandanamu.
If Tyagaraja can be so modest y not the rest of the musicians.
All Musical concerts hv a message that music is Divine.
The moment music comments becomes politics cum
ego centric music is like a beautiful Tanjore Tambura without strings ; without Jiva.
Music lifeless....no salvation.
Music Bliss ....only Sat + chit + ananda.

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 26 Aug 2013, 13:26

Dear Radha,

I would like to clarify as CACM has pointed out that TNK/LGJ/MSG were epoch makers in violin playing.
Please listen to Lalgudi and Srimathi recordings available in sangeethapriya to know what I mean.I have equally enjoyed the violin duet concerts of MSG and Narmadha as well TNK and Viji Krishnan.Just for your information:
I wish to point out that GJR Krishnan and Vijayalakhsmi played with Lalgudi till 2006.GJR played with Lalgudi from 1975-2006.GJR and VIJI are on concert platform since the early 1980's.
AS VKV pointed out that all the three had different qualities.There is no question of bias and it is on record that Sri LGJ fought with Music Academy for prime slot for violin concerts and in 1965,his violin duet with Shrimati was scheduled.
I am aware that the the violin trinty had mutual respect and admiration.During Lalgudi 80 celebrations,Sri MSG was honored in the function at Music Academy.

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 26 Aug 2013, 13:27

One must be sensitive towards humour also. No use shutting oneself in a cocoon and pretend as if there should not be any humour or leg pulling.

I will not quarrell on this leaving you to your ways . This thread is about take aways for the likes of the OP . If you have something to say about TC other than those hearsay comments please feel free to educate us . As far as the connection between my sadness and humour is concerned I will stay in my cocoon knowing well that I shall fly one day as a butterfly , I derive my occasional sadness from the utterings of well known minds - One of whom , famously said
The soul is born old but grows young. That is the comedy of life.
And the body is born young and grows old. That is life’s tragedy.
This thread is about folks who want to appreciate the likes of TC as early as possible in life.

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 26 Aug 2013, 13:43

Dear Radha,

I am surprised by your comments and it is obvious by your remarks GJR and Viji performing together is not held in high esteem by you.I should say that these are incidental and depend on the training imparted.It is creditable that they are performing since early 1980's.
There have been great violin trio concerts by LGJ ,GJR and Viji.One such concert was in 1997 at Bangalore Gayana Samaja.You want to conclude that only I am biased.
I agree that if i am biased towards LGJ,then it is for sure that your postings are biased towards MSG/Narmadha.
I would say that Sri MSG Suresh,MSG's son was a late introduction on stage and hence the combination of MSG and Narmadha continued for long.
I would like to inform you that i have never missed opportunities to listen to any of the trinty or for that matter present generation violinists.
As Nick suggested,there cannot be absolute comparisons and each one can have his/her preferences.But what is history cannot be ignored.

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 26 Aug 2013, 14:40

Unfortunately, in the enthusiasm,
We have forgotten about Parur greats..stretching for over a century when violin was first introduced in Hindustani Music in 1909 by Parur Sundaram Iyer. In 1916... The legacy of this Parur tradition has been carried forward MSA and MSg..
While appreciative language is used on MSG, no mention has been made of MSA and his brilliant sons..
Shri MA Sundereswaran
Shri MA Krishnaswamy
Shri MA Ananthakrishnan

He has concerts with four violins, including his three sons.
Listen here..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oSOouridiE

Another notable omission is that of M Chandrasekaran..Oh! what a violin player is he!!

" Shri M. Chandrasekharan's connection with music was firmly established over 60 years ago, when he began playing the violin at the age of 11, after which he went on to accompany many great stalwarts in the field of Carnatic music. Deeply appreciative of the importance of not just the lyrics, but also its melody and bhava, the prolific violinist is known for his success in bringing out the subtlest of musical nuances. He is also considered an expert in the laya aspects, recognizing and adapting to intricate rhythmic patterns with ease and grace. Sri Chandrasekharan also presents vocal concerts, and sometimes sings along during his solo violin recitals" and also along with his daughter Barathi.... He has composed various musical forms in different languages, and has travelled the world performing, enthralling audiences all over. All with his physical difficulty..

It is sad that subjective decisions are thrust with out comprehensive consideration..

Not that I am not for the great trios mentioned by learned members above.....

objective look is more welcome for laymen like me..

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 26 Aug 2013, 14:56

Dear Venkat,

You are right.Sri M Chandrasekharan's accompaniment was highlighted by Sri KVN in one of the interviews given to SRUTHI.MS Anantharaman is also in Parur mould .
He and MSG have given duet concerts also.

SrinathK · Post by **SrinathK** » 26 Aug 2013, 17:53

So now can we have some links to Chowdiah's accompaniment so we can hear the music and do a bit of analysis for ourselves? Will the thread once again get some clear direction?

I don't wish to neglect any name, but first let's savour one artiste's music before going on to another. And if we want to discuss about artistes and all the gossip and attitude issues that go on, kindly open a "vambu" thread exclusively dedicated to that.

Coming back to TC, here's a video from a film he made starring Chembai and Palghat Mani Iyer, which is probably the only available video of his playing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQtWVGAQwNQ

Chowdiah's swara playing is quite distinctive and I actually get the impression at times that his violin is singing the syllables of the swaras. Also he excels in playing a huge number of notes in a single bow. But towards the end he goes for the gimmick and uses a bow technique from left hand pizzicato to strike the string with the tip of the bow while playing kalpanaswaras and I think it still comes out well -- technically speaking it takes quite a bit of bow control to maintain an even bounce. I have seen that technique used in left hand pizzicato (plucking) where in addition to plucking the string, the bow strike also creates a sound very similar to plucking.

And speaking of acoustics, from what I can hear in the video, Chowdiah's violin actually sounded ok without the mic -- acoustics attenuates out harsher sounds with distance. The problem however would be when a mic is actually placed next to such a violin or what the musicians themselves on stage heard, which would be very different from what the audience would have heard.

Actually in large halls with significant reverb, a sharp edge in one's bowing actually helps articulation by allowing the notes to be heard quite distinctly (otherwise it could sound like a "mish-mash" of echoes), therefore all western concert violinists actually try to deliberately sound scratchy in a hall otherwise the sound would not carry. For example here's actually a case study of how two different people heard the same violinist sound completely different when a) listening from the stage and b) in the balcony. There's a reason why the cheap seats are often next to the stage in such halls.

http://www.freemantlemusic.com/15bHeifetzUpClose.pdf

From what I have heard of Strads and Guarnerius violins, they actually have a tendency to produce "edgy" sounds up close and I have read that a violin that sounds too sweet under the ear will hardly be able to project, something very important when playing without a mic. In some western solos I have seen the mic at least 6-8 feet away from the violin in question and high up in the air rather than being placed right next to the bridge.

Chowdiah used 3 very closely spaced pairs of strings tuned 1 octave apart and it always sounded like he was playing octaves on his violin. This would (if I remember the physics right) increase the intensity by a factor of 4x.

There's also this concert of GNB with Chowdiah in Mysore 1957. I own one copy of the concert and there too Chowdiah was in fine form. There is also a wonderful Tamadam En Swami (in Thodi) in my private collections and Chowdiah plays some superb phrases in his reply to GNB's alapana and kalpanaswaras -- I'll share it once I find it. As I do not have much Chowdiah I hope someone can upload more of his accompaniment.

Shyamala Rangarajan · Post by **Shyamala Rangarajan** » 26 Aug 2013, 18:13

This is in response to some posts regarding Ganesh & Kumaresh as accompanists.

Even though Ganesh & Kumaresh have been soloists from the beginning, they have also accompanied vocalist & instrumentalists, on some rare occasions. Here are the links to Ganesh accompanying Flute Baskaran, some time in 1989.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zswQw5xdD8U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sWH4VNnEYA

Ganesh has accompanied vocalists like Semmangudi, Maharajapuram Santhanam, Hyderabad Brothers, Trichur Ramachandran, TVG.

Kumaresh has accompanied vocalists like Seshagopalan, Trichur Ramachandran, TVG - again on rare occasions. Ganesh is a top notch vocalist also and he has given number of vocal concerts and Kumaresh used to accompany Ganesh on violin on such occasions.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 26 Aug 2013, 18:20

Chowdiah accompanying Manakkal Rangarajan
http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic. ... al#p232184

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 26 Aug 2013, 19:46

I request Varsha to upload the Manakkal Rangarajan recordings as it will be very interesting for new listeners.

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 26 Aug 2013, 20:42

Deleted

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 26 Aug 2013, 21:42

All the vidwans,we discuss in the forum are much more knowledgeable and definitely,I am not qualified to comment.It is my good fortune to have enjoyed this great music.
But the facts should not be distorted as a rasika mentioned that GJRK and Vijayalakshmi did not perform with Sri Lalgudiji.Records show that GJRK played with Lalgudi during 1975 - 2006.It is another matter that he was able to train his siblings and they are performing since early 1980's.
Madam Narmadha is like wise very senior having accompanied Sri MSG from late 70's.
To me GJRK,Vii as well as Narmada have performed on the stage for almost 35 years now.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 26 Aug 2013, 22:06

"kittappa"I feel sad whenever I read the word Soundiah or about that Ariyakudi Joke - searching for more strings .....
How easy it is to decry . Appreciating takes so much more effort

Indeed. Petty and inane so-called "wit" has always been highly rated and widely quoted in Chennai's Carnatic circles.

.......IN MANY INSTANCES MOSTLY MISQUOTED.

'Soundiah' was the name given to Chowdiah by GNB. Ariyakkudi and many others were aghast at TC's experiments with multiple strings. They rightly averred that TC was being insensitive towards not only their music, not only to his own violin play but to CM itself. Jokes, humour were all part and parcel of CM. There is nothing to feel sad about here. One must be sensitive towards humour also. No use shutting oneself in a cocoon and pretend as if there should not be any humour or leg pulling.........
They BOTH (Ariyakudi & G.NB.) both CLEARLY WERE ADMIRERS OF T.C. & plainly STATED at that time they said these comments that they meant it clearly as jokes. They did not say anything in public about multiple strings etc. Any one who ha listened to THE GNB-T.C.-MURUGABHOOPATHY MYSORE CONCERT one of GNB'S BEST esp. AFTER his HEALTH SETBACK will hear T.C. taking on a member of the audience in Kannada & Tamizh saying (not exact quote) " Sruthi serallae yenru sollarava yellarum NANNA KELUNGO INRAIKU". T.C. HAS NEVER IN MORE THAN 200 CONCERTS AT LEAST I have attended EVER did anything detrimental to any artist on stage. On the other hand when Vellore Ramabhadran was sustituted for Palani who fell ill in 1964 M.A. MMI CONCERT- HIS FIRST MAJOR SUCH APPEARANCE THO' HE HAD ACCOMPANIRED ALL THE MAJOR ARTISTS FOR SEVERAL YEARS ALREADY- MMI & T.C. STRUCTURED their singing & playing to make V.R. SHINE & HE BECAME AN INSTANT HIT AFTER THE CONCERT. V.R. has PUBLICLY STATED that MMI& T.C. made special efforts & that concert (Mohanam R.T.P.- BRILLIANT) was what made him count in MADRAS. I happened to be present at M.M.I'S House when a rasika urged MMI not to have T.C. as accompanist. MMI LITERALLY threw the person out of his house saying T.C. was his SENIOR and he will not ALLOW such statements made to him or in his presence.

MKR wrote

The amazing thing about TC was that he rose above all that pettiness--was one of the most large-hearted musicians of ANY era--both on and off the stage.Once in Bangalore(this was related to me by LGJ himself) when LGJ performed before a packed audience TC is supposed to have remarked to the audience"Is there anyone in this world who could have played like LGJ much to the embarassment of LGJ--

......MKR IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT AS ALWAYS!

Once at a Bangalore concert of Mali, Chowdiah came in sat in the front row and after 10 minutes got up with a dramatic flourish threw his angavastram around his shoulders showing clear disapproval of Mali and walked out. The Bangalore audience rooted to Chowdiah began shouting and yelling at Mali and poor Mali had to beat a hasty retreat. So much for Chowdiah's broadmindedness.[/quote].........
THIS REFERENCE is I think wrong as I attended that particular concert. The violinist was R.R.Keshavamoorthy a T.C. Sishya (played on 7 strings also) who could not follow& REPRODUCE what Mali did on flute. He did walk away telling Mali YOU play these notes on violin. MALI actually switched places & played Violin( he was very good at it too!)& asked his disciple Dindugal. Natarajan to play Flute & the concert went on. If one wishes to PUT DOWN MALI there are instances in which MILD DISAGREEMENTS did happen in his concerts. For example there is a famous one in a Bombay concert where TNK complained Mali deliberately played things not reproducible on violin; TNK challenged Mali &proceeded to play things on violin that could not be played on flute. This is available on tape in their own voices! Also PMI in general liked to play in a fast tempo & mali in a slow one. In Viribhoni Mali slowed things to such an extent PMI just sat & did nothing. On enquiry he said at this pace there is neither a need for thalam or a necessity for mridangam. Mali lived in his own UNIVERSE of course it was an exciting & large one & at times he would dwell alone there....Bottom line TO ME IS ARTISTS of yesteryear had ENORMOUS GENIUS as well as ABILITY to ADMIRE their fellow GREATS!.....
I WISH MADRAS WOULD BUILD A CHOWDIAH HALL TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE THOUSANDS OF CONCERTS & ARTISTS HE UPLIFTED! Of Cousre Karnataka & other states are far superior when it comes to such things....VKV

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 26 Aug 2013, 22:31

VKV Sir,
Thank you for that info. about the Bangalore concert.

Incidentally R.R.Keshavamurthy was not a disciple of Chowdiah but was a fellow disciple under Bidaram Krishnappa. He was a rival of Chowdiah and made his own 7 stringed violin.
Just today I bought this Kannada Encyclopedia of Carnatic Music! Here is the page on R.R. Keshavamurthy (would someone like to translate, please?)

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 26 Aug 2013, 22:50

Sad to see the controversies...As Srikanth has said in a earlier post,

let the issues not related to assessment as such be discussed in a separate thread if it not inconvenient to

the mods..to open...

Sorry to note even an earlier one opened by Dr. vkv, is discontinued and again one opened by RSachi....

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 26 Aug 2013, 23:14

Rsachi wrote:VKV Sir,
Thank you for that info. about the Bangalore concert.

Incidentally R.R.Keshavamurthy was not a disciple of Chowdiah but was a fellow disciple under Bidaram Krishnappa. He was a rival of Chowdiah and made his own 7 stringed violin.

THANKS FOR THE CORRECTION. I have heard him but when I was growing up in Madras V.Sethuramiah & R.R.K. were talked about as T.C.'S DISCIPLES & I just accepted that as I was in no position to verify anything! At least T.C. was SO TOWERING it was an easy pill to swallow! Can you elaborate if you can how his 7 string violin was different? I have attended talks where T.C. DISCUSSED the advantages of 7 strings violin & all the DISCUSSIONS obviously centred around T.C'S INVENTION! VKV

girish_a · Post by **girish_a** » 26 Aug 2013, 23:50

Here is a video of the movie "Vani" in which Chembai sings a song in Shanmukhapriya. Chowdiah plays the violin and PMI the Mridangam. The movie was produced by Chowdiah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQtWVGAQwNQ

Don't miss the swaras.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 27 Aug 2013, 00:26

I CANNOT THANK YOU ENOUGH for the great service you have done in giving a link to this clip. For those who have heard them in person (as well as those seeing this clip) like me it is a REVELATION of not just the DIVINE NATURE of the music produced by the group.It clearly shows why Chembai's voice was considered by PMI to be among the top three, PMI'S YET unmatched PRECISION, AND T.C'S BRILLIANCE & DEXERITY. Even tho' the clip is old the music this video PROJECTS their personalities perfectly too!....A great piece of our musical heritage! Thanks again, VKV

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 27 Aug 2013, 03:13

Dr. VKV,
RRK's 7 stringed violin : sorry I am not competent to explain its differences from Chowdiah's innovation.

About "Vani": Mr.Srikantiah, the author of the book on T. Chowdiah published by Mysore University, mentioned to me that the movie Vani was conceived and produced by Chowdiah to raise funds for a cause (temple project?) espoused by Chembai. He mentioned that Chowdiah lost a lot of money on the movie. He had enacted also the lead role in it.

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 27 Aug 2013, 06:58

https://archive.org/details/ChowdiahAIRTributePart1

AIR s tribute , broadcast in the National program of music .
As the OP wishes , I will keep putting up a few more tracks until he says next .
There is enough material for almost all violinists
Will be taking up M Chandru next .
Among the forthcoming tracks on TC is a duet with Doreswamy Iyengar

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 27 Aug 2013, 07:26

Hope I can post this one..
Bhairavi-Ragam_Tanam Pallavi...Veena and violin...

E SWARA015- Lalgudi Shri Jayaraman-Mysore Duraiswami iyengar veena With TVG on mrudangam....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-W_ENH47_c

SrinathK · Post by **SrinathK** » 27 Aug 2013, 07:31

Hey girish I shared that video a little earlier. I've also felt his violin sounds way better without close miking, which was what it was designed for. Was amused to see some of the tricks he does, but still nicely executed!

The 7 string violin was a very difficult one to play so Chowdiah often played his own phrases and avoided those sung by the vocalist if they couldn't suit the instrumemts. He also introduced gear tuned pegs to stabilize the tuning.

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 27 Aug 2013, 07:32

Here is a very rare one...( not linked to the topic of the thread on hand..)

Violin-parimala ranga pate-telugu-kamboji (pallavi)played by Narayanasami Iyer Pudukottai
Recorded in March 1905 at Madras by William Sinkler Darby & Max Hampe for the Gramophone & typewriter Ltd (later- Gramophone company - HMV) One of the first recordings made in South India..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCwRYw46 ... e=youtu.be