Arasi, I use the word elite in the sense of being a limited group, and one which sees itself (maybe is!) in some way better than the non-elite.
The more serious forms of art, literature, etc, attract the more intelligent, sensitive, etc among us.
I'm searching for an understanding of how this relates to snobbery, or where those things interlink, but I'm not getting anything from the old brain cells.
SrinathK, you enthusiasm takes you out of the "elite" and into the "creme de le creme."
I'm searching for an understanding of how this relates to snobbery, or where those things interlink, but I'm not getting anything from the old brain cells
Isnt the answer possibly right there in your post ?
I use the word elite in the sense of being a limited group, and one which sees itself (maybe is!) in some way better than the non-elite.
Snobbery happens, I suppose, when you can point to someone and think they belong to the masses and especially when that person knows your opinion of them.
I have been eating pongal throught my life, right from young age. The dish has been abused a lot with advent of western culture through pizza, burger etc and also through various social economic reasons. So, i have decided that i will not eat pongal during month of margazhi from this year onwards
The reactions on various media range from disappointment from fans to “good riddance” to “who cares, the world will go on just the same”.
As a performer, teacher, and student of Carnatic music, and an NRI, I would like to provide my perspective on this.
It is indeed commendable that a well known musician is thinking about issues such as equal pay for accompanists, how to provide platforms and be fair to not just the superstars but the talented not-so-famous, lack of audience due to uncontrollable numbers of concerts in a short time period, the standard of music, and the quality of the listening experience. By announcing such a decision, he has taken a lot of risks. Many famous and talented artists cannot afford to.
However, I think that a musician with his stature, power, fame and activist mentality can do much more than simply withdrawing from the scenario saying, “I quit because I don’t like it. And I don’t care what happens”. And yes, everything will go on being just the same.
Are there real issues in the way the December season is run? Are the problems he has listed valid? I think they are. I would like to address one of them, which is about the NRIs. I do not have enough knowledge of sabha operations and other logistics to be able to comment on several other issues, albeit bothersome.
Yes, the festival has many more NRI participants than the early nineties, and some of the sabhas play money games behind closed doors. T.M. Krishna has rightly pointed out that there are NRI musicians that are truly committed, and have a tough time even getting a basic slot to sing. Getting an audience is even more challenging. I personally feel that there are students and performers outside India that are equally, if not more, dedicated and talented than the average performer in Chennai. I have heard, in person, from some of the most famous vidwans and vidushis of today, that the talent, depth of knowledge and dedication of some students that are born and brought up in North America, is not seen in India nowadays. These serious young NRI students are certainly not fly-by-night operators. I also do not buy the opinion that reviews are planted in newspapers by NRI money. Are you really saying that reviews of India-based performers are never planted? By the way, how many reviews are even fair and objective?
I have students who come to class with thoroughly researched material, and explore manodharma very deeply, intelligently, and innovatively. There are avid listeners, intelligent researchers, dedicated practitioners, and ambitious performers of hard-core Carnatic music among the youth of America. These very people, who are the global ambassadors of Carnatic music, deserve to be recognized and given opportunities. Then there are serious musicians who live outside India, and struggle very hard both to keep practicing as well as to spread the music wherever they live. Well, there are many such people outside Chennai too. These people of merit do not get opportunities during the season.
Now, most of them, and most of us, are led to believe that if they don’t perform in Chennai, during the December season, they have no future in Carnatic music. That is the very situation that needs to change.
In order to maintain standards, Sabhas should have an impartial way of gauging the merit of applicants for various performance slots. I have two simple suggestions for the sabhas for the December season:
1) Limit the number of concerts each day to three – junior, sub-senior and senior.
2) Employ an expert panel of three or four senior musicians to select the participants for the junior and sub senior slots. For this to work, the panel needs to go to work months in advance, listen to recordings and select the performers. Is this cheat-proof? Maybe not. But it would be steps better than the sabhas deciding based on false recommendations, money or personal connections.
The practice of simply demanding money to get a performance slot regardless of the quality is a dangerous trend. However, if an NRI willingly supports an organization financially, he or she is a true promoter of the arts, and I don’t see wrong in it. The organizations do need the money after all. But the selection process should be based purely on merit.
If one or two sabhas set an example, maybe there would be others to follow. If the model is successful, the ones that are not here to support good music will soon go out of business. The season will be more manageable. Similarly, more than one famous musician should come forward to change trends. They can be strong advocates of some of the positive changes they want, and influence the sabhas to move in those directions. Sounds utopian, but I think it is achievable with the help of technology and media reach, in five to ten years.
To be fair to TMK, we need to addess the points individually. NRI is #9 and paid reviews is #10. There may be or may not be overlaps between individual points listed.
I somehow sensed there would have been a "last straw on the camel's back" that triggered this move of his. Only time will tell.
I agree with Pattama... If there is something wrong with the pongal, then don't eat it all year. It is the same pongal!
I also think that many of the posters here, up to and including Rajeswari's recent post, have expressed the problems better than TMK has --- and they have done it without refusing to perform in, or even come to, the December Season.
I suggest TMK can be an observer (not necessarily a critic) of concerts (of his choice) during the season and tell what impressed him most so that rasikas would get a fair idea of the essentials of a good presentation. (sequencing of items need not be a criterion) He can give his views in a suitable forum even at the end of the season.
I'd be interested to see his reviews, but his writing style varies quite a lot. When he wants to sound like a 1950s professor it is impenetrable and dull, but he does not always write like that at all, and the newspapers reviews are certainly in need of fresh air.
It must be hard to be a performing reviewer, though: they have to live together.
RSatish - welcome! I enjoyed reading your post, and I hope someone pays attention. If people proceed down that path, in the interests of full disclosure, I hope that the names on the expert panel are published, and that the individuals on this panel serve short terms, no more than 3 years at a time....
Rajeshwari,
I read your post a second time. I think you have the understanding and positive intentions to collaborate with other well-meaning people in this space to change things! And I place TMK high in a list of such people.
About NRI performers in the Chennai season, I would suggest that people like you should create a purely merit-based ranking system to recognise NRI talent and directly publish and share that ranking with all the sabhas by June every year.
Do you think this could work? I am saying here that every NRI candidiate for a slot carries a CMAT score. (Carnatic Musical Accomplishment Test). It is valid for 18 months.it is to be based on a systematised syllabus and scoring methodology.
About NRI performers in the Chennai season, I would suggest that people like you should create a purely merit-based ranking system to recognise NRI talent and directly publish and share that ranking with all the sabhas by June every year.
What I fail to understand is why do NRIs give so much importance to the dec festival in Chennai (for all the snobbery I see in this forum) that makes them compete with one another for slots, make endless self promotions, make Gurus recommend them -- and all the other negative points mentioned by TMK? There is Cleveland for them all. What is the necessity to 'bag' a slot in Chennai Sabhas? Their endless pursuit makes these Sabhas important otherwise they'd have lost it long time back.
Rsachi wrote:The ramamantra for every tennis player is to play in Wimbledon. That's why
But, don't you think these rich migrants can carve a Wimbledon for themselves - for all their pompous bragging and show of strength ? An individual like TMK is making effort to create dents into an ultra-conservative system like CM, much like the squirrel in Ramayanam with its pebbles to build the bridge. Can't the migrant body with their high level contacts, money and ability to get things done (fast as well) create a CM center abroad more powerful than the one in Chennai?
You may have the best artificial turf, airconditioned, all glitz and glass, stadium as an improved version of Wimbledon in Brunei. But do you think it will ever have the vibrations of Wimbledon?
You may weave the best silk in Sharjah. Do you think you can replace Kanchipuram?
You may make the best elephant dung cakes in Denver. Do you think you can displace Trichur Pooram?
You may dish out the deadliest Bhelpuri in Doha. Do you think you can chuck away Chowpatti?
You can grind and garnish the greatest Gongura. Can you get away from Guntur?
You can take away Carnatic music from Madras but not Madras from Carnatic music.
Last edited by Rsachi on 15 Jun 2015, 22:13, edited 1 time in total.
Can't the migrant body with their high level contacts, money and ability to get things done (fast as well) create a CM center abroad more powerful than the one in Chennai?
Exactly what Don Vito Sundaram is trying to do in Cleveland, succeeding the first weekend, and failing miserably from Monday to Friday
Rsachi, although you cheekily reminded me of my own words in another topic, I liked the way you deduced the whole thing. You do have a sneaky way of being cheeky, but its alright - I liked the wit.
On a serious note, change is inevitable. How did Chennai become the center, in the first place? When the command and economic centers changed from Kaveri banks to Koovum banks, everything else followed, although right now, it simply looks like it had always been (ugly, dirty and stinking) Chennai as a CM center. So also with the next change. If it is US, so be it.
tiruppugazh wrote:
Exactly what Don Vito Sundaram is trying to do in Cleveland, succeeding the first weekend, and failing miserably from Monday to Friday
That's simply because there are no vetti senior citizens to attend during weekdays.
ramamantra wrote:
On a serious note, change is inevitable. How did Chennai become the center, in the first place? When the command and economic centers changed from Kaveri banks to Koovum banks, everything else followed, although right now, it simply looks like it had always been (ugly, dirty and stinking) Chennai as a CM center. So also with the next change. If it is US, so be it.
Et tu, Ramamantra?
Like Meg Ryan says in the movie, French Kiss, 'All you ****ards know each other' - all chameleons know each other. I thot at least you stood your stance.
Nick,
I think Madras has been the magnet for Carnatic musicians from the time of Muthuswami Dikshitar's father! (18th Century). And I think it is well nigh impossible for Cleveland or any other place to displace the hot house of Carnatic music called Madras. In fact Lalgudi's father, who had been somewhat of a recluse, shifted base to Madras, as eloquently narrated by Lakshmi Devnath, for the success of his son.
(Patnam Subramania Iyer got his name from Patnam=Madras.)
let me hasten to clarify that when I said center it doesn't mean roots. CM belongs (read roots) to south India. No one can deny that. Center can shift. So, I don't see how I've changed my stance.
Actually, I'm surprised its only 74 replies and whatever views. TMK gets much much more in this forum.
Also goes to say, lots of bored, old people (like me) not knowing what to do with their time keep visiting the forum many times a day and another set of similar characters (but numerically high) do it at night (ie day time in US)
"On a serious note, change is inevitable. How did Chennai become the center, in the first place? "
On a lighter note: Chennai has three seasons summer, summer and music. Madras advocates simply wanted a season other than summer!
Rsachi wrote:
You can take away Carnatic music from Madras but not Madras from Carnatic music.
The greatest jab back I've seen in this forum (though I've only read some 20 percent of it, a rather wild estimate), well done, friendly and effective and yes, cheeky! But the greatest amazement on going to like the post was to find that Ramamantra has the humor to enjoy it too..
Srinath, I know hundreds of Bangaloreans who simply love the Chennai season. DON'T please spoil their fun. We have enough music in Blr round the year! Plus the weather is a little bit more bearable than in Chennai.
Dear Rsachi,
Darwin+ POPULATION EXPLOSION has taken care of the SABHAS ANYWHERE GETTING FILLED! NO need for any music or rules to be obeyed. Indeed 1+ 1 =0 is the current equation.....VKV
As anyone can guess from my post count, I'm just a lurker - Reading lot of informative posts and getting lot of insights. since this is not a strictly musical thread venturing to post.
My view of the elitist tag and Carnatic music being in the hold of a certain community - When a certain community is interested more than any other and form a big population of the listening community it is natural that they will have some hold on the administration of the same. Moreover there is no restrictions imposed and as somebody said no one is asked to clear a test before gaining entry to concerts. So why should the blame be attached to the community ?
What is the olcott area experiment for. In a few years if the objective is reached, the olcott area people will get the acquired taste and understanding of CM and start appreciating it well. Then anna nagar folks are going to see them as exclusive and elitist
No one prevents anyone from attending concerts.As far Rasikatva is concerned,there is no elitist approach.In fact most of the listeners will not be with formal music background.As far as learning is concerned,Musicians do not go by caste or creed i suppose though this might have been the case earlier.
Whether the Aryakudi bhani should continue or not is best left to the audience. I could never have imagined in a million years that something as sacred as Test cricket with all the players in gleaming white outfit, will be overwhelmingly downplayed by the T20 matches played in colored outfit! But that is what the spectators wanted and that is what they got and they accepted it.
The most important reform that CM needs is the elimination of the “main artist” syndrome. Yes, the lead performer should be just that, the lead performer and the whole concert should be one of collaboration and not domination. Otherwise we will continue to see the thani avartanam being performed few minutes before the end of the concert. Time and again during their lec-dems, stalwarts such as Karaikudi Mani and T.K Murthy lament about it. But they cannot do anything about since if they raise their objection, the “main” artists will not have them play!
As mentioned by TMK, over the past several years flow of foreign currency has made the Season more than a music meet. It is a vacation for many and few millions are pumped into the city in 2-3 weeks. It was inevitable given the interest in CM among youngsters in the US, mostly forced by parental nostalgia, and the opportunities that have resulted for the musicians of Chennai. Why complain about commercialization of CM during the Season? Look at what is happening in Cleveland? There was a time when it was 3 day affair, homage to Thyagaraja was in the true sense of the word. Today CM occupies a fraction of the aradhana. It is all group activities some far removed from Indian music, let alone CM. And every event offers the potential to raise money i.e. commercialization. Individual singing is attended just by the family of the singer. To reiterate TMK’s point of deserving artists being ignored during the Season, no North American artist is fit to perform during senior slots in Cleveland. Even the concert winner or North American idol winner only get to perform at unearthly hours. Only artists from Chennai are featured in prime slots. So, in a way, Cleveland is a microcosm of Chennai and clearly shows that the trait is contagious! At the end of the day all are innocent until proven guilty.
Professor Krishnamurthy
I have been reading all posts related to this issue. The most fitting reply so far has been from Filmmaker Sharadha Ramanathan in FB. I share it here and her ideas are almost similar to my opinion, I didn't take the trouble of penning it down . But one thing for sure is this man has been going on and on. He needs to stop his rants and concentrate in his music. Blaming the community which gave him space is unacceptable.
"After much thought, I have decided to react to T.M. Krishna 's reasons for not singing in the December Margazhi festival, as a long-time connoisseur of Classical music and the December festival.
As long as Krishna kept the decision as his own personal one, it was just fine. But subsequently, since he has declared a bunch of reasons for his decision that damns pretty much the entire festival and all its participants, it warrants a response. (I would like to add here that I have unflinchingly supported Krishna on several of his other issue-based positions, so this is an objective response). Let me address a few matters for starters:
First off, a major portion of Krishna's "reasons" makes grave accusations of the sabhas in general being corrupt (this could mean any of them or all of them), the NRI artists being corrupt in a majority, and these two constituencies, along with the audiences, only patronizing "popular" music and "commodifying" it.
Krishna fails to communicate what he means by "popular" (and why that is wrong) and "commodification". And he also fails to substantiate these damning allegations in ANY way. At the very least, this is an act of utter irresponsibility. And such an act of irresponsibility cannot and must not be taken seriously.
In any case,does he then imply that he will stop getting paid for his concerts hereafter? Isn't that commodification?
Secondly, if he thinks that the December season is not "secular" enough, is he then implying that the sabhas that he is singing in off-season are incorruptible and 'secular' to his satisfaction? I would argue that in fact, the December festival audiences are far more "secular" /cosmopolitan and come from anywhere from small towns to international locations. People attend concerts as long as they have season tickets or are cash-rich enough to buy tickets. It has also become as much a class issue and is far more complex than he makes it out to be.
Further, will he then stop getting the dollar into his account too, for his performances?
If Krishna feels that many non-celebrity musicians get ignored, why does he have known "popular" names in his own initiatives such as Svanubhava? Will he, atleast hereafter, give opportunities to the unknown lot? I can, however, bet my last rupee that every sabha will give you the names of atleast 5 new/upcoming artists that they have promoted each season regardless of how many people attend their concerts. There is a huge margin of musical non-monetized conviction in each sabha, make no mistake about that.
Krishna complains about the proliferation of sabhas. I would say, if Carnatic music is patronized primarily by the sabhas, may their tribe increase. Isn't the "unwieldy" mushrooming of sabhas a sign of music prospering?
The most damning allegation of them all - that music has fled from the Margazhi season. This essentially means that not a single artist is performing with integrity during the season. Truly damning.
And more far-fetched than ever. And a direct insult to connoisseurs like myself, who would not flock to this festival year after year if the music had "fled" from it!
I have no problem with Krishna taking a decision for himself, or even fighting for a cause. But to damn a system that has grown over a hundred years, and to exaggerate its imperfections to unsubstantiated damnation, is unacceptable. Of course, the on-going dialogue on the importance, ramifications and imperfections of the season must sustain. But it is one of complexity that can be addressed through dialogue and participatory transformation. Not through a one-man damnation. But as the wise say, the music will rule. And the show will go on."
THERE IS NO OTHER PLACE IN THE KNOWN UNIVERSE WHERE GRASS ROOTS ORGANISATIONS EXIST& SUPPORT OUR CULTRE& MUSIC TO THE EXTENT CHENNAI HAS MANAGED TO DO. AGAIN ANOTHER CASE OF TRYING TO PROVE 1+1+=0.....I suggest he take to Mathematics& come up with theorems in the Krishna Universe....VKV
TMK is damning the system becoz he has probably something new (read commercial) up his sleeve (business-minded that he is), which will come out in course of time - that's what I think. Till then, he wants to create a ruckus about it with all his 'controversial' statements soaked in seeming idealistic virtue.
rvkrishnamurthy wrote:Whether the Aryakudi bhani should continue or not is best left to the audience. I could never have imagined in a million years that something as sacred as Test cricket with all the players in gleaming white outfit, will be overwhelmingly downplayed by the T20 matches played in colored outfit! But that is what the spectators wanted and that is what they got and they accepted it.
The most important reform that CM needs is the elimination of the “main artist” syndrome. Yes, the lead performer should be just that, the lead performer and the whole concert should be one of collaboration and not domination. Otherwise we will continue to see the thani avartanam being performed few minutes before the end of the concert. Time and again during their lec-dems, stalwarts such as Karaikudi Mani and T.K Murthy lament about it. But they cannot do anything about since if they raise their objection, the “main” artists will not have them play!
As mentioned by TMK, over the past several years flow of foreign currency has made the Season more than a music meet. It is a vacation for many and few millions are pumped into the city in 2-3 weeks. It was inevitable given the interest in CM among youngsters in the US, mostly forced by parental nostalgia, and the opportunities that have resulted for the musicians of Chennai. Why complain about commercialization of CM during the Season? Look at what is happening in Cleveland? There was a time when it was 3 day affair, homage to Thyagaraja was in the true sense of the word. Today CM occupies a fraction of the aradhana. It is all group activities some far removed from Indian music, let alone CM. And every event offers the potential to raise money i.e. commercialization. Individual singing is attended just by the family of the singer. To reiterate TMK’s point of deserving artists being ignored during the Season, no North American artist is fit to perform during senior slots in Cleveland. Even the concert winner or North American idol winner only get to perform at unearthly hours. Only artists from Chennai are featured in prime slots. So, in a way, Cleveland is a microcosm of Chennai and clearly shows that the trait is contagious! At the end of the day all are innocent until proven guilty.
Professor Krishnamurthy
I knew you would bring in Cleveland Thyagaraja Festival into this.
According to you, honesty and integrity will return to Carnatic music when Rohan is asked to accompany the top-ranking artists of today.
Tell you what, we are willing to put up with less honesty and less integrity.
PS. Since you seem to be batting on the same side as T M Krishna,why don't you ask him to have Rohan accompany him?
PPS. I am glad you have not painted the Chicago Thyagaraja Festival with the same brush!
Dear rasikas,
The eloquent critique of Filmmaker Sharadha Ramanathan, shared here, is perhaps the best-worded response of any rasika to TMK's angst-filled public declaration of boycotting the Chennai season.
At the same time, her response clearly underlines the utter IMPOTENCY of all such responses. As consumers, we would have cultivated the selectiveness (hamsa-ksheera nyaya) of taking the best out of the Dec. season. For someone as big as TMK to make so many damning allegations in defence of his boycott (and risk a lot for himself indeed!), somehow sours us. But her response is no better than if I were to react to Aamir Khan's boycotting Filmfare awards, or a Rahul Dravid leaving IPL for its venality. After all, I am only a consumer!
How about getting some embers from this fire for some constructive homam effort? I nominate the likes of Filmmaker Sharadha Ramanathan and other well-meaning sabha organisers. Come up with a festival answering TMK's criticisms, share the blueprint with him, ask him to join in and bring in other performers. Lets have a good game!
Remember when Rajaji left Congress, and started the Swatantra Party, he sowed the seeds of a counter to the hegemony called Congress rule. His efforts have been slow to show the positive effects. But would we not call Rajaji as a bold, value-based, dissenter? The world has perhaps matured over the many decades, and it's time for all good men and women to do something different in the Chennai season. TMK cannot do it alone.
Would that not be the greatest tribute to Chennai and Margazhi, the mother of Carnatic music? Why ignore the present symptoms?
The Music season is Chennai has a heritage and Music Academy concerts in December has been in existence since 1935.Yes,the number of Sabhas may have grown.If you compare the present population,even with proliferation of Sabhas still the percentage of people attending concerts is more or less a minuscule.The Music Academy concerts listings are in the website and concerts during music season is not due to NRI or money influx.
Great stalwarts like Araikudi,MMI,MDR,GNB,MSS etc performed.Attributing new and meaningless motive for the season is unfair by( Sri TMK).It is upto the artist to participate or not.
After reading Sharada R's response, the only thing that got stuck to my mind was the word, 'damn' and maybe this thought - the damsel's damning of the 'one-man damnation' may serve to dampen the damage...
shankarabharanam wrote:I have been reading all posts related to this issue. The most fitting reply so far has been from Filmmaker Sharadha Ramanathan in FB. ... ...
Well reasoned and well said.
harimau wrote:According to you, honesty and integrity will return to Carnatic music when Rohan is asked to accompany the top-ranking artists of today.
Or when Rohan is asked to sit on (or be) the experts committee of all the sabhas.
harimau, is the unseasonable cold weather slowing you down? Once again, Dad gets it in first
Here is an extract from sanjay's interview in hindu today, on his opinion about december season
Talking about the Season, he feels it is one of the best things about the state of Carnatic music now.
“It is a showcase of culture,” he says, “The way the crowds turn up for concerts is a joy to see and experience. Another huge development now is the fearlessness of today’s children to present kutcheris. When I was 16 or 17, it was like playing a Test match – an act fraught with anxiety. For today’s youngsters, it is a matter of routine.” On the downside, the music is Chennai-centric and the eroding relevance of temples in propagating culture is sad, he feels.
Harimau
I don't know where you are from. But US and India are free countries where every one is free to say what they want. So you are.
Rohan has performed with TMK on few occasions and especially their concert at Bharat Kalachar years ago(December season) resulted in a rave review in Kalki with the head lines "arasarai venrta ilavarsar" . The "ilavarsar" of course was Rohan. The Arasar was the canteen chef "arasuvai arasar" who had refused to set up shop in Music Academy and chose Bharat Kalachar that year. The review glorified Rohan and the khnajira player Purushothman more than the "main" artist and the violinist. That doesn't mean TMK did not perform well. In a way Rohan's performances at Bharat Kalachar with TMK, Ravikiran and Sowmya is what led to his receiving the Yuva Kalabahrathy award when he was barely 15.Any way that is history
In any case Rohan is now fully engaged with collaborations with world leaders in percussion, working 12 hours a day, and I suspect he will come in next when TMK or I get out (batting on the same side, remember?), as far as the Season is concerned.
