Neravals

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 07 Jul 2005, 10:22

incons
anytime you feel like letting out a TMT-concert

issue of concerts needs a bit more clarity in this forum.
i will be addressing this particular need of some members (upload and download of concerts ) in a separate post on the x drive thread.later today.

inconsequential · Post by **inconsequential** » 07 Jul 2005, 10:40

sri coolkarni,
thanks for the post. i fully understand this forum's primary goal - which is to enrich the listening-experience - even with the existing wealth of music in all our collections. and sharing pieces in one context or another.

i was only making an entry in a wish-list, by stating that. just meant to say, i can wait for any no:of days or years for a sri TMT concert.

the way things are right now, looks perfect.

regards

inconsequential · Post by **inconsequential** » 07 Jul 2005, 10:57

cmlsir,

thanks for the link. read through it. pls correct me if iam wrong.

can i understand it as something like a 'predisposition' or in more common terms 'natural inclination' (due to past impressions or any other reasons) for ideas, musical? which usually shows up in the form of creativity - hence indirectly meaning that?

regards

chithra · Post by **chithra** » 07 Jul 2005, 11:29

Incon:

From what I understand our calssical music falls basically into two categories - Kalpitha Sangeetham and Manodharma Sangeetham. CM has essentially these two vehicles for its music - its compositions, which belong to the realm of Kalpitha Sangeetham; the other is the Manodharmam, displayed in Alapanai, Taanam, Niraival, Swaram, Virutham etc. As the name suggests, Kalpitha Sangeetham is taught and fairly fixed, whereas one's creativity comes to the fore in Manodharma Sangeetham - one is taught how to do these things like Swaram singing, Alapanai etc. but, ultimately, it is supposed to be an extempore performance. The teachers teach the techniques for the latter, but one has to integrate intelligence, imagination and Kelvi Gyanam to come up with high quality manodharma renditions. As an eminent musician pointed out, there is a world of difference between a "recital" and a "concert". In a recital, one recites what one has been taught - sonnadai sollumaam kilpillai. In a concert is where the real music talent blazes its own Bani...

Eevn in Kalpitha Sangeetham, the sangathys are different school to school, and people add / drastically modify sangathys, add Chittaiswaram etc. Again the creativity of the artist / performer at work, but within a more rigid framework.

I do not know whether I interpreted your question correctly, but I tried...

Chithra

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 07 Jul 2005, 19:07

chitra

You have expressed the ideas simply, elegantly and succintly. I like those keywords 'recital' and 'concert' for the abstruse lakshaNa and lakshya as also kalpita and kalpana. We attend a concert to get the kalpana or in other words the manodharma of the artist. It bears the signature of the artist but is different each time. For example our laya artists can identify PMI at any concert from a few strokea but find him exhilarating in each performance. At this point I also bewail some artists who almost memorize kalpana swaram and once you have heard them (the first one may be exciting) you have heard them

CM without manodharma becomes just vedic recitation

inconsequential · Post by **inconsequential** » 07 Jul 2005, 22:31

chithra and cmlsir,

thankyou very much for the explanatory notes. am able (to some extent) to appreciate the importance of manodharma sangeetam and a judicous combination of the kalpana and kalpita components in a concert

regards

meena · Post by **meena** » 08 Jul 2005, 05:29

cmlover sir,
Well there is no argument that it is one of the finest karaharapriyA I have heard. I have an (incomplete) recording of hers somewhere in Canada (1977). She elaborately sings the raga,neraval and swara prastara. The whole song is about 40 mintues. I havent heard any other better KaraharapriyA. The concert also has mAtE (KamAs), aparAdamullaniyu(latAngi), anudinamunu kavumayya(bEgada), mElaragamalika (first 2 chakrams) Unfortunately, this superlative recording ends abruptly in the first line of the caraNam of caraNam caraNam endrane (sowrASTRam). If any body has the rest of the concert. I request them to share it. danke!

Smt MSS Cananda concert-rendetion of the 'finest karaharapriyA' has been u/l on xdrive

(Thanks to ksrimechji)

The concert details:

MSS Concert (Canada,1978)
(The year could be 1977 when MS was touring the USA and gave the Carnegie Hall Recital)

Vocal: Sangeetha Kalanidhi M.S.Subbulakshmi
Vocal Support: Radha Viswanathan
Violin: A.K.S. Alagiriswami
Mridangam: Guruvayur Dorai
Tambura: Vijay Rajendran

001-Mathe malayadhwaja(Daru Varnam)-Khamas.mp3
002-Aparadhamulanni-Lathangi.mp3
003-Anudinamunu-Begada.mp3
004-Hiranmayim lakshmim-Lalitha.mp3
005-Pakkala nilabadi-Karaharapriya.mp3
006-Mela Ragamalika-Agni & Veda Chakrams.mp3
007-Charanam charanam-Sowrashtram.mp3 (incomplete)

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 08 Jul 2005, 05:57

Thanks Meena.
Please address me as ksrimech/Krishna.
Danke!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 08 Jul 2005, 06:25

Danke sehr! Herr ksrimech!
c'est bonne!!
Mikka nanRi!!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 08 Jul 2005, 06:49

To paraphrase 'kuyilE unakku anantha kOti namaskAram': ungaLellOrukkum anantha kOti namaskAram!
MSS at Canada was simply superb.
Ravi

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 08 Jul 2005, 06:56

Yes indeed. These are rare collections. Not available anywhere!

chithra · Post by **chithra** » 08 Jul 2005, 07:58

I am bewildered - I do not see the MSS Canada concert in my X-Drive. I do not see a link posted anywhere, and I believe I am looking in the correct forum / topic. What am I doing wrong - pleeeease help. Thanks - Chithra

divakar · Post by **divakar** » 08 Jul 2005, 08:00

chittra: look in 'neravals' folder

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 08 Jul 2005, 10:26

Here is a superb neravel by (late) KBS (known as Ve^Ngalakkural)
http://rapidshare.de/files/2887827/tattuvam.rm.html

The neravel particularly at 'pazhththai pizhintheduththu' has great lyrical beauty (of course you must know tamil). This is a very beautiful kharaharapriya and KBS is singing with a great feeling. She also drives in a philosophical message which you will find out after listening to the song. Many of you may not know that she was discovered and married by SG KiTTappaa well known name of yore in Stage and CM. His Evarani is unbeatable even today. Pl enjoy the song and add your commenst.

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 08 Jul 2005, 11:29

cmlover sir,
I was listening to the Canada Concert again just now. I realised I have forgotten to mention that a ghatam and a kanjira have accompanied MS respectively. Vaguely I remember them to be Vikku Vinayakram and V Nagarajan.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, I had mentioned earlier that the piece is about 40 mins. Well, its actually 30 mins only. Bit of over-enthusiasm. But what ever it is, it is one of her best renderings of KaraharapriyA. Sorry for the typo.

Thank you.

meena · Post by **meena** » 08 Jul 2005, 11:45

cml

is this from one of her movies?

chithra · Post by **chithra** » 08 Jul 2005, 11:58

Divakar, many thanks - found the concert.

And, Krishna - thanks for sharing a lovely, unavailable-till-now Rathinam

Chithra

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 08 Jul 2005, 18:07

meena
I don't think it is from any movie. She used to sing this in concerts more elaborately! I remember once as she was singing
'(gnaana) pazahththai pizhintheduththu..' she paused and suddenly launched into her famous kaambOdhi viruttam
ganaana pazhaththai pizhinthu.. with gusto and the audience erupted into an applause that shook the temple. Then she seamlessly blended kaambodhi back into kharaharapriya, It is such spontaneous innovative forays which endear CM to the Rasikas ( and I would extend the definition of 'manOdharma' to include such creative innovations!)

ksrimech
I cannot confirm since I don't remembsr the visiting team with MS at that time. I agree with you that it is a superb kharaharapriya. While sarojadala is one of her all-time best I will not hesitate adding pakkala at par! You should note that in 'saama gaana..' neravel she shows her complete mastery of shankarabharaNam displaying the technical beauty of the raagam which is most appropriate for Shyama saastri; but in 'tanuvuche..' she takes us on the emotional roller coaster.herein the dhainya bhaava is more important which is most appropriate for Thyagaraja. She has sung several of the kharaharapriyas (korisevimpa, raama neeyada..) where she demonstrates her mastery of the raaga but pakkala is a special one where she becomes a meera who merges emotionally with the saahitya (I will call it 'tanmayatvam').

inconsequential · Post by **inconsequential** » 09 Jul 2005, 00:43

I agree with you that it is a superb kharaharapriya.

indeed. some great souls are born with the great knowledge "art is bigger than the artist" - and how they move everyone and everything with such ease.

krishna - thanks a ton for sharing such a concert with all of us.

an observation - mss and kvn, both have dwelt in the higher-octave prayogams during the AlApApanai - given that sri T's sAhityam is such. the other rasikas may already have noted this. just thought i'd share this.

regards

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 09 Jul 2005, 00:49

incon

....but SSI doesn't

He hates high octave and never failed to make bones about it. For example listen to his chat on the Begada!

inconsequential · Post by **inconsequential** » 09 Jul 2005, 01:30

cmlsir - ya, i remember reading something similar - where he talks about the vanishing of 'mandhara sthAyi sancArams', higher-octave singing and audience-applause.

i havent heard his rendition of this song.
my observation was relating to this particular song 'pakkala nilabadi'. maybe it was just coincidence - am now trying to recollect how many different kharaharapriyAs i've heard (by which artists, which songs and all) - to see if there may be any truth in my own observation

should also say, the bEgaDa that came before kharaharapriyA had already won me over

regards

abadri · Post by **abadri** » 09 Jul 2005, 03:27

I don't think it is from any movie. She used to sing this in concerts more elaborately!

An example of what dr. cmlover is referring to (from Shri Raju's archives of a KBS concert)
[rapidshare link deleted]

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 09 Jul 2005, 04:54

Thanks abadri
But of course each concert was a different ballgame. That is what is meant by 'manOdharma' ! in this one the janta prayOgam of Kharaharapriya is divine- so rhythmic and melodic!

prasadvrg · Post by **prasadvrg** » 16 Jul 2005, 17:49

hello Chithra,
thanks for explaining the recital and concerts. The whole post is so good.

Lucky to have found this forum. So rich in discussion.

Regards,
Prasad

poongavur · Post by **poongavur** » 19 Jul 2005, 02:50

Well, thanks to all the discussion in this thread, I am now able to better appreciate neraval. Yesterday I was listning to TVS's 1991 concert at MA (streamed from one the sites). I thought he did a wonderful job in his Keeravani piece "punniyam oru koti" Also there was a nice Mohanam RTP but it left me feeling incomplete and wanting more. May be that is the point.

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 04 Nov 2005, 13:10

Posted: 27 Jul 2005 17:56

Dear All,

I was recently going through Prof. James Rubins Catalog at the harvard University Library. I did find the concert which I posted listed under concerts of Music Academy. The following are the details.

Music Academy, 25-12-1969
Vocal: Sangeetha Kalanidhi M.S.Subbulakshmi
Vocal Support: Radha Viswanathan
Violin: V.V.Subrahmanyam
Mridangam: Sangeetha Kalanidhi T.K.Murthy
Ghatam: T.H. "Vikku" Vinayakram
Khanjira: V.Nagarajan

1.Mathe malayadhwaja(Daru Varnam)-Khamas
2.Aparadhamulanni-Lathangi
3.Anudinamunu-Begada
4.Hiranmayim lakshmim-Lalitha
5.Pakkala nilabadi-Karaharapriya
6.Mela Ragamalika-Agni & Veda Chakrams
7.Charanam charanam-Sowrashtram
8. Jaya jaya-Manirangu
9. Ragam Thanam Pallavi-Thodi + Tani avarthanam
10. Thu dhayalu dheen ho (Hindi Song)
11. Ragamalika Song (Last line has Dakshinamurthe in it!)
12. Thillana-Dhanasri
13. Mangalam-Sowrashtram

After looking at the song list, I made me feel that the concert which I had posted earlier as Canada 1977 was indeed the MA X-Mas Concert in '69. My apologises for providing wrong information earlier.

One more interesting concert listed was the following:

Concert recorded live at the home of V.D. Swami on January 1, 1966 by R. Kannan.
It was dubbed by James Rubin on January 17, 1967.

Vocal: Sangeetha Kalanidhis M.S. Subbulakshmi, M.L. Vasantakumari & T. Brinda, T. Mukta
Violin: Lalgudi G.Jayaraman & Sangeetha Kalanidhi T.N.Krishnan
Mridangam: Unidentified
Ghatam: Unidentified
1. Vātāpigaṇapatim -Haṃsadhvani-Ādi -Dīkṣita-M.L. Vasantakumari
2. Bālagopāla Pālaya-Bhairavī-Ādi -Dīkṣita-M.L. Vasantakumari
3. Jagadānandakāraka-Nāṭa-Ādi -Tyāgarāja-All four
4. Lēkanā Ninnu-Āsāvēri-Ādi-Tyāgarāja-All four
5. Rāma Rāma Prāṇasakhi(Padam)-Āhiri-Jhampa-Kṣētrayya-All four
6. Vijayāmbike-Vijayanāgari-Ādi-H. Muthiah Bhagavathar-All four
7. Gajavadana Sammodita-Tōḍi-Ādi-Eṭṭēntrā Maharāja-All four
8. Bhogindra Śāyinam-Kuntalavarāḷi-K. Chapu-Svātitirunāḷ Maharāj-All four
9. Entarō Mahānubhāvulu-Śrī-Ādi-Tyāgarāja-Violin duet

I guess this must have been superb concert with 4 (out of the 5) gems singing. I dont know how (or why) they left out DKP. Also, the interesting thing is LGJ and TNK who where both busy with Male Statwarts, had some time for female statwarts as well. It also gives an answer to my question which I had posted in Sangeetham.com sometime back. "Why didn't LGJ acoompany MS?".

BTW, the song Rama rama prana sakhi is in Bhairavi. Prof. Rubins has listed it as Ahiri.

I will write how to access that catalog in my next posting.

Thank you.

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 04 Nov 2005, 13:10

Posted: 10 Sep 2005 00:40

dear all
just came across this rendition of sAmaja vara gamana - hindOLam krthi of saint tyAgarAjA - often abused song (the cinema paattu, among carnatic songs - if i can use such a term

no disrespect to the song - but the casualness that it gets treated with) - an unusual treatment to the line 'yAdava kula muraLi vAdana' by sri kvn - yes, neraval

http://rapidshare.de/files/4919298/KVNTRACK08.mp3.html

regards

sangur · Post by **sangur** » 04 Nov 2005, 13:11

Posted: 13 Sep 2005 10:39

Please excuse me for asking this now. I have logged in here after many weeks.

Is the MSS Concert (Canada,1978), referred in this thread, still available? Can anyone post the link?

Thanks in advance.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 04 Nov 2005, 13:11

Posted: 13 Sep 2005 15:40

Concert recorded live at the home of V.D. Swami on January 1, 1966 by R. Kannan.
It was dubbed by James Rubin on January 17, 1967.

Vocal: Sangeetha Kalanidhis M.S. Subbulakshmi, M.L. Vasantakumari & T. Brinda, T. Mukta
Violin: Lalgudi G.Jayaraman & Sangeetha Kalanidhi T.N.Krishnan

Does anyone have this absolutely mind boggling concert?
Ravi

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 04 Nov 2005, 13:12

Posted: 13 Sep 2005 22:14

Dear sangur sir,

I will post it again for you. Please bear with me till the evening.

BTW, I had changed that the recording was done in 1969 at MA and not in Canada.

Thank you.

Dear Rshankar Sir,

That recording is supposed to be present in the Harvard Music Library. I dont know who is gonna lay hands on it.

sangur · Post by **sangur** » 04 Nov 2005, 13:12

Posted: 14 Sep 2005 03:08

Thank you very much, Ksrimech.

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 04 Nov 2005, 13:13

Posted: 14 Sep 2005 18:07

Dear Sangur Sir,
Here are the links to the MS's 1969 Music Academy Concert (wrongly labelled as Canada 1978).
http://rapidshare.de/files/5098199/001- ... s.mp3.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/5098236/002- ... i.mp3.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/5098299/003- ... a.mp3.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/5098356/004- ... a.mp3.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/5098436/005- ... a.mp3.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/5098561/006- ... s.mp3.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/5098599/007- ... m.mp3.html
Thank you.

sangur · Post by **sangur** » 04 Nov 2005, 13:13

Posted: 16 Sep 2005 03:17

Dear Ksrimech,

Thanks a lot for the links.

Regards,
Sangur

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 04 Nov 2005, 13:14

Posted: 18 Sep 2005 07:25

Where is the necessity for a neraval when the raga has been elaborated for so long?

Neraval is another aspect of manodharma (creativity) which is, no doubt, another means of bringing out the beauty of a raga. According to scholars and great musicians, the acid test for a musician's creativity is choosing the apt line for neraval in a given song, since the line has to provide scope for improvisation aesthetically, and also be meaningful lyrically. The unique feature of neraval is that it the only aspect of creative music where melody, rhythm and lyrics meet. It gives ample room for creativity while at the same time demands some discipline, since the artiste has to come back to the original tune after his forays into the raga. However, the artiste has to ensure that the different facets of creativity are properly balanced in a concert. Neraval is definitely a very distinctive feature of Carnatic music, very different from raga singing.

very true, like how sahaithyam/diction itself is important the split and improvisation done during neraval also exhibits the musician's creativity.

One of my favourite neraval; shri SSI's "kantiki sundara...."

prasadvrg · Post by **prasadvrg** » 07 Nov 2005, 06:10

Namasthe Kirsmich,
Any chance of getting the links for the concert below? Please.

And also what happened to the other half of Smt MSS's 1969 Academy concert? Eagerly awaiting for the release.

regards,
Prasad

Concert recorded live at the home of V.D. Swami on January 1, 1966 by R. Kannan.
It was dubbed by James Rubin on January 17, 1967.

Vocal: Sangeetha Kalanidhis M.S. Subbulakshmi, M.L. Vasantakumari & T. Brinda, T. Mukta
Violin: Lalgudi G.Jayaraman & Sangeetha Kalanidhi T.N.Krishnan

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 08 Nov 2005, 12:03

prasadvrg Sir,

I haven't got those items yet. Once I get them I shall post them. Thank you.

meena · Post by **meena** » 09 Nov 2005, 06:17

Kji

Can u pl. u/l if u have sree trs lecdem on ' rational approach to niraval' thanku

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 10 Nov 2005, 04:55

Meena,

Is it the Lecture titled 'Demystifying the Pallavi" by TRS which you want?

If that is the one I can post it later tonight becos the CD is at home.

Thank you.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 10 Nov 2005, 05:13

ksrimech.
please do upload that track.i have very slow upload facilities.

meena
i am also plucking out the audio track from another three hour video on the same subject by TRS.But it is more on a question/answer mode.will post it on the TRS thread.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 10 Nov 2005, 05:33

plucking out the audio track

sample from that.this is another sizzler of a lec dem
http://rapidshare.de/files/7418301/trs_clip.mp3

meena · Post by **meena** » 10 Nov 2005, 07:45

ksrimech/Kji

'Demystifying the Pallavi' was u/l here on old forum by Kji, thanku.

'A rational approach to niraval', i was reading an online sruti article where it was mentioned.

(I shall try to google this article)

Kji looking fwd to more audio plucking's

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 10 Nov 2005, 09:42

meena part 1 of the second lec dem is up on the trs thread.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 11 Nov 2005, 04:56

here is an outstanding neraval by TRS.
further such tracks will continue after discussions on his rtps are over.

http://rapidshare.de/files/7420193/trs- ... apriya.mp3

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 11 Nov 2005, 05:37

Simply superb!

We are lacking only the aalaapana!

Can anybody comment on the laya aspects?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 11 Nov 2005, 06:14

The lyric is by GNB

Lakshman/meena

could we have the lyric?

meena · Post by **meena** » 11 Nov 2005, 08:06

Kji
indeed a treat! accomp. info pl. thanku

cml
nI daya galgunO. rAgA: SaNmukhapriyA. Adi tALA.

P: nI daya galgunO nirupama karuNA sAgari nAku
A: sOdana laru nEnu paramAtmA pAdamE gatiyani namminA namma
C: mAdhava sOdari manjuLagAtri mahAdEva sakhi mangaLa dAyaki
nA taramerigi nannElukO nAda svarUpiNi nAveda dIrcuTaku

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 11 Nov 2005, 10:12

Lovely

Now I can enjoy the piece fully!

Thanks meena.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 15 Nov 2005, 19:58

Not sure if this is the correct place for this, but I have a question for the forum: I recently heard a version of kAdhambarI priyAyai (MD?, mOhanam), and during the KS (no neraval, but just KS), the artist after each section of the swarAs, would just say 'kAdham', not 'kAdhambarI': it just did not sound right to me. Is this type of ungrammatical splitting of words an accepted practice? Or am I just reacting to singing like this because I am so used to the SSI/MSS style?
Thanks.
Ravi

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 15 Nov 2005, 21:14

I have noticed that SSI usually gets around this by finishing the word/phrase fully while the violinist picks up mid-word to avoid the silence gaps till the completion of the avartanam. That is quite an intelligent way. Others just cut the words in the middle, and that is unfortunate, and though not wrong musically, is wrong poetically and linguistically. :wink

venkatpv · Post by **venkatpv** » 16 Nov 2005, 20:32

TMK while singing swarams for O Rangasayee at 'Bhooloka vaikuntham' actually sings just Bhoo!!!! :88 :^o